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  • #2075
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    Tennant GOOD
    Kylie GOOD
    Palmer GOOD
    Swift GOOD
    New Theme Tune SHOCK! But GOOD
    New closing credits were very VERY rushed… bit like American Television.

    Generally great!

    What you think?

    #118727
    mick
    Participant

    Tennant GOOD
    Kylie SCREENCAPS TAKEN
    Palmer GOOD
    Swift GOOD
    New Theme Tune UTTER WANK
    New closing credits AS ABOVE
    Story POOR
    Effects GOOD UNLESS YOU NOTICED THE MASSES OF MISTAKES

    Generally mediocre!

    That’s what I think.

    #118737
    Dave
    Participant

    Tennant GOOD
    Kylie NOTHING SPECIAL
    Palmer GOOD
    Swift GOOD
    History Boy GOOD
    Queen’s voice AWFUL
    New Theme Tune SHITE
    The Song QUITE GOOD
    The fact it wasn’t Kylie singing it SUPERLATIVE
    New closing credits SO FAST THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT HAVE BOTHERED, NOW I’M CARSICK
    Story POOR, BARELY MASKED BY BLUSTER AND EFFECTS
    Effects GOOD

    A friend told me the reason it was 71 minutes was because the story was so good that they couldn’t bring themselves to cut anything. I would argue it was too flabby for that to be true. It might have even been better shorter.

    That?s what I think

    #118738
    Mr Flibble
    Participant

    I don’t like Who normally, but this was really good. Except that the real Titanic didn’t have any binoculars…

    #118743
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thought it was excellent. Have been a bit disappointed with the previous 2 christmas specials but this one really seemed to live up to the hype.

    And I adore the new theme-tune. Menacing, urgent, funky and magnificent.

    #118744
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Except that the real Titanic didn?t have any binoculars?

    Also, it wasn’t a spaceship.

    #118745
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    This is going to look like I copied the format off you, but it was on my journal yesterday evening, so fuck you :p

    New theme tune… BAD
    Tennant… GOOD
    Kylie… BAD
    Poseidon Adventureness creating a genuine sense of peril… GOOD
    Underuse of Geoffrey Palmer… BAD
    Clive Swift… GOOD
    Max Quordlepleen… I mean, Capricorn… BAD (but… was he SUPPOSED to be channelling Davros?)
    Effects and stuff… GOOD
    The Queen and corgis… BAD
    Most of the other attempts at humour… GOOD
    The Superman-meets-Jesus flying bit… BAD
    That speech that started “Who am I?”… GOOD (Rachel hated this, which basically shows how those sorts of moments are wonderful if you buy into the myth of the Doctor, but less so if you’re still to be convinced)

    #118748
    Turk Thrust
    Participant

    Geoffrey Palmer was excellent as always (and underused as already mentioned) but that was the best thing about it. They should try hiring actors based on their suitability for the role rather than on their fame (Kylie) or their being talked about as the next big thing (Russell Tovey).

    #118749
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I thought it was the worst Who Christmas special so far. Lots of lovely moments (I liked the Buckingham Palace bit), Clive Swift being great… but in the end it didn’t seem to AMOUNT to anything. Lots of individual stuff to like, but the ep just didn’t work as a whole for me.

    The stuff with Astrid didn’t register at all with me – there was no emotional connection at all, which rendered the ending completely flat. This wasn’t Kylie’s fault – I thought she was very good – but the script’s. It didn’t make me care enough.

    The new end credits were atrocious – badly rendered, too fast, and the music didn’t work at all. Did they deliberately make them bad to try and force the BBC to allow them the old credit style for S4?

    Don’t mind the new theme itself, really – having heard it a few times I agree it’s perhaps a bit busy, but I like the fact that you can hear more of the original version in there.

    #118750
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    Seb….I love you, but your being an arse! What was wrong with Kylie?

    The theme was a good improvement I think. Problem was, series 1 theme was made using synthetic music and pre-recorded instruments. The theme from Series 2 (closing credits) was the National Orchestra of Wales (with practically non-existant percussion), with the Delia Derbyshire theme over the top. Problem was, them kept the original synthetic opening for series 2, and they didnt go together. Same for Series 3. This is really clear when you listen to the track on the Soundtrack CD (Vol 1), It’s hideously edited together.

    The new theme is a good balance of both… lots of nods to the 80’s Who theme, better climax towards the end… and the percussion really blasts! BUT If I had to choose… the full Series 1 theme was the best.

    My thought on the credits though, is because of the lengthy running time, they just rushed them for broadcast? If you try to watch them on the embedded BBCi broadcast on the website, you cant read them atall!

    #118751
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Kylie… just wasn’t that great. She was fairly likeable, but I didn’t care enough about the character, and found her a bit wooden. I didn’t see any reason for it to be Kylie cast (aside from the star cachet… which appears to have worked if you look at the overnights) as opposed to someone with more in the way of recent acting experience.

    Still, I’d rather have had her survive and join him in the TARDIS than instead have the threat of Tate still hanging over our heads…

    #118755
    mick
    Participant

    The new theme made my face crease up and my bowels move, possibly the worst version of the theme I’ve ever heard, including the happy hardcore remix.

    #118757
    Turk Thrust
    Participant

    > I didn?t see any reason for it to be Kylie cast (aside from the star cachet? which appears to have worked if you look at the overnights) as opposed to someone with more in the way of recent acting experience.

    Well exactly. Kylie is a likeable person but she really isn’t massively talented. There are hundreds of actresses who have more ability than her and could have played the role better. Hiring one of them would have improved the show but could have damaged the ratings.

    #118762
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    I thoughy Kylie’s performance was good. Genuinley wasnt expecting her to be a very good actress… but I think she was way better than what they were asking for.

    The theme is an interesting debate.

    #118763
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I really liked Kylie’s performance – she was really likable. I maintain that the problem was that the script didn’t give her enough decent material.

    Having heard the theme a few more times, I still kinda like it, to be honest. I can see why some people wouldn’t – it *is* perhaps a bit fussy and busy – but it works for me. More of the original theme, and a nice beefing up of it.

    #118764
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    link to the theme?

    #118765
    mick
    Participant

    >it *is* perhaps a bit fussy and busy

    Because they seem have just piled more tracks into the previous version of the theme, sounded like it was lifted off Dance Hits ’95.

    #118769
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Danny : you can catch the theme in all its “glory”, and indeed the entirety of VOTD, here :

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b008lyb2.shtml

    #118771
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The reason the end credits went by so quickly is because they were overrunning as it was. I’d rather have fast credits on one episode of the year than regular-speed credits and no Series 4 preview…

    #118776
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    > Danny : you can catch the theme in all its ?glory?, and indeed the entirety of VOTD, here :

    Good lad!!!

    #118780
    Dave
    Participant

    >There are hundreds of actresses who have more ability than her and could have played the role better

    Thousands

    #118782
    Turk Thrust
    Participant

    > Thousands

    You’re probably right. I do agree though that the writing was just as big a problem as the casting. I guess that as soon as Alison Graham described the episode as being very special, it was almost a guarantee that it would be average at best.

    #118789
    pfm
    Participant

    Totally underwhelmed by the entire episode, sadly. Better on second viewing though, but not much. I’m usually a Russell T Davies apologiser but…there’s a limit…

    (Only) The GOOD…

    – Tennant. Pwns everyone, a real pwn cocktail (quite suitable for Christmas Day…and enough left for a Boxing Day pwn sandwich)

    – Kylie. Did great with what she had, which was NOT a leading role.

    – CGI. So excellent for the BBC (why are some people still expecting $100 million movie quality?)

    – The presence of three ex-Who actors – Bernard Cribbins, Geoffrey Palmer and Clive Swift (none of them mentioned in the Confidential…too many men (hetero and homo) masturbating over Kylie)

    – The fact that everyone has left London. RTD has created a world of fear! If only he weren’t simply predicting the not-so-distant real future…

    The Acceptable BECAUSE IT’S CHRISTMAS DAY

    – The whole Queen episode.

    – The Poseiden Adventure wankfest (RTD is obsessed with it, as he says on the commentary)

    – The cheese factor turned up to the MAX (‘and I should know because…my name…is Max!’) including the Titanic bridge looking a little like the inside of the Teletubbies house at Christmas with all the coloured flashing buttons, levers and tinsel.

    – RTD going for…something, I don’t exactly know what, with the Doctor linking arms with the angels and them lifting him up.

    The Utter SHITE

    – Max Capricorn. ‘and I should know because…my name..is Max!’ OK, now die, you worst-villain-since-Fear-Her-if-not-the-entirity-of-new-Who. Fucking retirement plan…

    – The ‘everyman’ supporting cast. Badly written annoying characters (‘this is Foon, FOON, hear me? FOON, it’s funneh! and Bannakaffalatta! he actually looks like an alien like we all are (even though we just look like humans and it’s not explained) but in fact he’s a robot who just happens to house an EMP emitter able to disable the Host!!’). Sadly you even want Clive Swift to shutup at the end (well alright you don’t, you just want the script to STOP!!!).

    – The SCRIPT! Oh dear oh dear. RTD breaking his own rules all over the place, completely forgetting how to write an episode of new Who. This does not bode well for the 3 specials in 2009 (not to mention the ’08 Crimbo ep) all penned by him. When will he stop being so overblown?

    All right all right! There is ONE bit in it that I absolutely love –

    ‘Hang on a minute, who put you in charge? Who the hell are you anyway?’
    ‘I’m The Doctor. I’m a Time Lord. I’m from the planet Gallifrey in the constellation of Casterberus. I’m nine-hundred-and-three years old and I’m the man who’s going to save your lives and all six billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?’
    ‘No.’
    ‘Then in that case…allons-y!’

    The perfect combination of Tennant and Davies working there.

    #118795
    penny
    Participant

    >Danny : you can catch the theme in all its ?glory?, and indeed the entirety of VOTD, here :

    Seb I so want to hug you now!
    Thanks!

    #118893
    Seph
    Participant

    Just watched it, it was…decent.
    Some bits were good, but the script had a “written on the back of a beermat” feel to it.

    #118894
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Some of the best ideas are written on the back of beermats.

    #118905
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    such as Red Dwarf.

    #118907
    Seph
    Participant

    I’d assume Red Dwarf was actually fleshed out from beermat to script form tho, Who felt like they’d just photocopied the beermat.

    and the Series 4 preview made me wince.

    #118908
    Tonguetied
    Participant

    I watched the Christmas special of Doc Who and I can’t say I was overly impressed. Such is the revived show, it’s too much aimed at children and loudy so. It just feels like the script is immature at every level. The new series just doesn’t remind me of the darker older episodes that used to be so good. Sure Tennent is a giddy, eccentric kind of Doctor which harkens back to the past but that is about it. The Daleks seem to be overly used now, probably to boost ratings and get the attention of older more intelligent fans. Alas it just makes me think they can’t create any good adversaries for the Doc. I did enjoy some of the Christopher Eccelson series, but regarding his companions like Billie Piper, she is just eye candy, all body and no talent when it comes to acting and the same with her replacement. Shame to see such a cherished and iconic series turned into a kiddy bbc show that doesn’t deserve to air when it does. It should be on CBBC after school for the children. Much like Robin Hood, while alot of dosh has been spent, it amounts to a hill of beans when it comes to quality television for our TV licences. P.S. Making Daleks fly, that is sacrilege. Getting stars to appear like Kylie to appeal to us watchers, it’s pretty pathetic.Voyage of the desperate if you ask me.

    #118911
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Daleks have been able to fly since the classic series, Tonguetied, you bloody idiot.

    #118915
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Tonguetied, if you don’t know that Who was originally conceived as an educational family show, and indeed has always been aimed at kids and families; nor indeed that, as Ben points out, the Daleks have been able to fly or hover since the ’70s; then you really don’t know anywhere near enough about the show to start calling Russell’s decisions “sacrilege”, because he’s clearly a much bigger and more knowledgeable fan than you are.

    Also, fuck off.

    #118923
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Toungetied is clearly Ian Beale in disguise.

    #118924
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    *applauds*

    #118926
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I knew I could rely on you for that one.

    #118927
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Well I won’t tell you to fuck off, but yeah. Catherine Tate eye-candy? Episodes not dark enough? What about Blink? I’m now going to invalidate my entire post by saying that I’ve just started afresh with the new Robin Hood and it’s not nearly as bad as I remember when it being on first broadcast. It’s silly fluff with some truly wooden acting by some off the extras, and it doesn’t match up to Robin of Sherwood. However it’s not really trying to be. It’s much more comparable to Prince of Thieves only without the likes of Alan Rickman to make it great.

    #118928
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I’m not saying there isn’t plenty to criticise about New Who, because there is. But you can’t complain about it being a kids’ programme, or about Daleks flying, unless you’re complaining about things being that way in the original series as well…

    #118929
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Having rewatched this with Ian and Jo this afternoon. What let the whole episode down for me was the villain, Max Capricorn. He had all threat of a limp lettuce leaf. Also bad guy, head on wheels… when and if Davros turns up won’t the new audience just think oh it’s a Max Capricorn clone?

    #118934
    pfm
    Participant

    > she is just eye candy, all body and no talent when it comes to acting and the same with her replacement.

    No. Out of the entirety of Who name me a companion actor better than Billie. IMO the pairing of her and Eccleston was excellence, still the best lead casting so far. The next Doctor and companion should definitely be cast together with them focussing on the chemistry, and also making them more equal roles again. The shadow of Rose and the poor treatment of Martha in many episodes wasn’t good for the series. Having her leaving at the end of series 3 because she’s too lovestruck with him and he’s still fawning after Rose is pretty lame. The show shouldn’t have gotten to that point!

    Despite the misgivings about Catherine Tate, at least the character of Donna should bring more life to proceedings. Although it’s easy to predict a scene where she says ‘well, did you find someone?’ and he’ll be like ‘yeah, but she sort of…left…oh and there was this bird on the Titanic she…well…she’s just stardust now’ and just more and more wallowing.

    #118935
    Tonguetied
    Participant

    Still far too kiddy for even a family show. Terrible, terrible scripting. No excuses my fellow dwarfers, none whatsoever.

    #118936
    Tonguetied
    Participant

    Also Sebastian, you ”fuck off”. Cheers big ears.

    #118937
    Tonguetied
    Participant

    Max Capricorn he was just a trash can with a head, probably the last thing they accounted for when they ran out of money on that episode, not the most original design or intimidating.

    #118939
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > No excuses my fellow dwarfers, none whatsoever.

    You haven’t acknowledged a single point anyone has made. Exactly when was the show ‘too kiddy’?

    #118942
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    NEVER QUESTION TONGUETIED’S WISDOM.

    #118944
    Phil
    Participant

    Can G+T please put that on a t-shirt?

    #118950
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I can have it on a shirt within twelve hours.

    Tonguetied, is there anything you do like? You’re beginning to sound like that bloke from The Beautiful South who appeared on all of those “I love the 70s/80s/90s/etc.” shows who sat there and said he hated it all. And he was a miserable git.

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