Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

[Piplup2003]

The title says it all. What opinions do you have about Red Dwarf that no-one else seems to agree on?

For me, it’s that VIII is my second favourite series (behind V) and that I prefer Chloë over Claire as Kochanski (this may be partially influenced by the fact that I’ve met Chloë).

And please, no arguing.

Topic

[Dax101]

I feel like some characters don’t need to be fleshed out. The Cat for example is a complicated one because his whole character could be easily broken if you attempt to crack that ego or reduce him. IMO anyway. 

Kryten in the novels does get some details on his mentality though. His guilt, his desires ect ect

[Warbodog]

The smart and cultured Kryten that’s most realised in series V is more the anomalous characterisation now.

[Rushy]

I feel like some characters don’t need to be fleshed out. The Cat for example is a complicated one because his whole character could be easily broken if you attempt to crack that ego or reduce him

I’m probably influenced in my opinion by the fact that I don’t think the Cat was ever fully realised until the Dave era. I don’t even know what it is about Danny in those newer seasons, but I absolutely adore him in them whereas I really wasn’t all that fussed in series 1-8. 

[International Debris]

[Dax101]

I feel like some characters don’t need to be fleshed out. The Cat for example is a complicated one because his whole character could be easily broken if you attempt to crack that ego or reduce him
I’m probably influenced in my opinion by the fact that I don’t think the Cat was ever fully realised until the Dave era. I don’t even know what it is about Danny in those newer seasons, but I absolutely adore him in them whereas I really wasn’t all that fussed in series 1-8. 

I guess you just prefer when the Cat is more childlike and vulnerable. But as shown in the Dave era, in order to really get into the cats character, apparently you need to show how insecure he is. But if you take a character thats defined by his ego and you make him insecure, you are actually diminishing him more than complimenting him with a story.
Do we really need to see how pathetic the cat is to feel he has progressed? Or is the point of his character to be driven by his personality quirks of feeling he is already perfect?

I feel the unused series 7 script identity within did a better job at trying to keep within that idea, even if the idea seemed a bit silly The Cat would die if he didn’t have sex.

[Podey]

I remember some discussion on this site around Cat’s weirdly emotional reaction to Lister thinking he would be willing to give up a Kidney to save his life in ‘Give & Take’ and some theorising that he was upset because he wished he was able to make such a selfless act but was stuck in the reality of being selfish.

If that were true (I’ve never been convinced) then that must qualify as the most complex bit of character writing he’s ever had.

[Rushy]

I remember some discussion on this site around Cat’s weirdly emotional reaction to Lister thinking he would be willing to give up a Kidney to save his life in ‘Give & Take’ and some theorising that he was upset because he wished he was able to make such a selfless act but was stuck in the reality of being selfish.

I take the scene at face value. The Cat is upset because he realizes that Lister expects a precious token from him, and thus doesn’t understand the nature of their relationship after all these years. Which is that the Cat exists to be appreciated unconditionally. 

It’s a joke about his absurdist cat-like selfishness. Lister is dying, but the Cat is only concerned about the fact that the Cat got his feelings hurt. 

[Rushy]

But if you take a character thats defined by his ego and you make him insecure, you are actually diminishing him more than complimenting him with a story.
Do we really need to see how pathetic the cat is to feel he has progressed? 

I don’t really see him as being more insecure in the Dave era, aside from the glasses incident. I think he gets more moments to shine, more gags written for his particular personality. And very importantly, Danny is just better at acting. His timing is so pitch-perfect in the later seasons. 

[International Debris]

Cat’s character changes dramatically over the years. I mean, they all do, reflecting the changes in the show. But he’s always been the most functional character. In the first two series he’s basically there to fill a gap, to stop it just being Rimmer and Lister bickering. Then he becomes Lister’s best mate in series 3; he’s basically a one-liner machine in 4 and especially 5 (my favourite version); in 6 he’s a pilot and has his absurd super powers. In 7 and 8 he’s contractually in the show.

Yeah, there’s definitely more of a focus on him being insecure in the Dave era. It does work for the character for me – he’s so focused on being cool that his biggest fear will of course be that somehow someone might see through that – although I get why someone might not like it.

[Dax101]

Danny is just better at acting. His timing is so pitch-perfect in the later seasons.

Thats very debatable. If anything the Dave Era asks Danny to play it up more. Danny uses his facial expressions more to show confusion, naivety and cheekiness.
But i don’t know if thats a sign of better acting. Danny didn’t have to do that in the early days in order to own the room.

Similar to Chris Barrie. I think even in the early days, Chris showed he was a good actor. Holoship puts a lot of his shoulders to not just be funny but be conflicted. While in the Dave era it could be argued his character is also asked to play it up more, so he sometimes feels very broad with his performance. But i don’t think that suggests he is now a better actor because he is trying harder to be funny.

Personally, many may disagree with me but i felt Can of Worms of character assassination for The Cat. from his insecurity of being a virgin, like he is a kid at school trying to look cool infront of his friends. To not know what sex is, which is perhaps the dumbest he has ever been ever. And his “it still counts” reaction which is the point where The Cat looked the most pathetic. In terms of acting i don’t think that took a lot out of Danny.

[Dave]

Having had pet cats, I feel like you can see classic-era Cat and Dave-era Cat as being takes on cats at different stages in their life. In 1-VI he’s cool and energetic and assured like a young Cat, but his quirks in the Dave era are recognisable as those of older cats that aren’t as confident, become more physically frail and let themselves go a bit.

[Rushy]

Thats very debatable. If anything the Dave Era asks Danny to play it up more. Danny uses his facial expressions more to show confusion, naivety and cheekiness.
But i don’t know if thats a sign of better acting. Danny didn’t have to do that in the early days in order to own the room.

Similar to Chris Barrie. I think even in the early days, Chris showed he was a good actor. Holoship puts a lot of his shoulders to not just be funny but be conflicted. While in the Dave era it could be argued his character is also asked to play it up more, so he sometimes feels very broad with his performance. But i don’t think that suggests he is now a better actor because he is trying harder to be funny.

Personally, many may disagree with me but i felt Can of Worms of character assassination for The Cat. from his insecurity of being a virgin, like he is a kid at school trying to look cool infront of his friends. To not know what sex is, which is perhaps the dumbest he has ever been ever. And his “it still counts” reaction which is the point where The Cat looked the most pathetic. In terms of acting i don’t think that took a lot out of Danny.

I think Can of Worms is one of the worst episodes, so I don’t disagree with you there. 

But I quibble with the idea that Danny is broader now. Danny in series 1 was – to my eyes and ears – as loud and brash and awkward as Chris was in the Dave era. The conversation with his shadows, “dan-gerouuuuus” and constant fourth wall breaks are on par with the Jacobean moves routine. 

For the sake of argument though, let’s ignore that.

Even if Danny is broader, I would still argue that he’s become a better and subtler actor, because his judgment is so much better than Chris’s these days. He comes out looking charismatic, and I can’t think of a single line delivery that’s out of place from him. There are times when a routine of his just doesn’t work (for example, the charades sequence in Dear Dave), but Danny still doesn’t embarrass himself. That’s actually quite impressive to me and deserves merit. 

[Dax101]

but his quirks in the Dave era are recognisable as those of older cats that aren’t as confident, become more physically frail and let themselves go a bit.

Yeah i was waiting for someone to bring this up about him getting older. But thats quite dire for his characterisation to say well he is old now, and he knows he is old, we gotta acknowledge that The Cat feels insecure about getting old. He is getting soft and frail.

I feel when we get to that point with the show its a sign its gone on too long and the characters are getting rather sad in the Red Dwarf scenario.

[Technopeasant]

Not sure what scenario would preclude the characters getting older…

[Dax101]

it’s like talking about Lister being the last human being alive and then reminding the audience that he is getting old. You don’t really want to turn a dire situation more dire by watching the characters degrade because they are getting older. The moment you say the Cat has gone soft as he ages is the moment we acknowledge he is degrading in age. And I think it’s a little sad to watch really. It’s not a character progression where he is developing, it’s a result losing his youth. 

Although i don’t believe that is what Doug was saying as The Cat is still quite childlike so if anything his insecurity is likely aimed more at being immature and kiddy. 

[Warbodog]

It feels like there could have easily been a version of the late 80s to 90s where Cat was the mega breakout star of the show and we all got sick of his extracurricular antics eventually, but it only amounted to a Def II appearance and number 17 single in this reality.

[Warbodog]

[Turk Thrust]

As people discussed Krytie TV fairly recently, I decided to give it another watch today.

Looking for positives, I would say that if you forget that it’s Red Dwarf, there are some reasonable comedy ideas. The men crossing their legs isn’t exactly subtle, but is quite well done; Chris delivers his comedy rule of three dialogue very well (‘They’re mine.’ ‘They’re mine’ ‘Have you been going through my things?’); and there are a couple of reasonable puns. 

It’s all turned up to 11, though, and lurches all over the place. You get the feeling that with Rob no longer around, there was nobody to sift out the bad ideas from the good. 

It’s interesting that when the DVD was released that this episode was talked about by Robert and one or two others as being a classic.

Obviously, it has gone down in people’s estimations since, but I don’t feel as strongly about it as some do. Rimmer and the Cat have never shown any respect for women and Lister has sometimes been portrayed as imperfect in that regard (eg.hot oil wrestling). It’s lazy writing to have Kryten classified as a woman and to have so much of the comedy focused on shower night, but I don’t see it as anything more sinister than that. 

[Podey]

I remember watching that episode with my uncle and my dad (who actively dislikes Red Dwarf) sometime soon after it was on and them both laughing their heads off. My perception at the time (which was probably wrong) was that series 8 was well-received with the general public, I was surprised when I picked up the book and read Doug talking about people hating stuff from it.

[Dave]

It feels like there could have easily been a version of the late 80s to 90s where Cat was the mega breakout star of the show and we all got sick of his extracurricular antics eventually, but it only amounted to a Def II appearance and number 17 single in this reality.

[Dave]

I was surprised when I picked up the book and read Doug talking about people hating stuff from it.

From memory, that stuff in the VIII book stems from him reading online fan comments in the early internet era doesn’t it? Probably quite different to how the general audience reacted.

[Turk Thrust]

I remember watching that episode with my uncle and my dad (who actively dislikes Red Dwarf) sometime soon after it was on and them both laughing their heads off. My perception at the time (which was probably wrong) was that series 8 was well-received with the general public, I was surprised when I picked up the book and read Doug talking about people hating stuff from it.

Yeah, there were certainly some positive reviews for VIII and it got a better reception than VII in the main.

I think in the book Doug talks about people hating the Blue Midget dance which has probably always been true.

Until the DVD releases and maybe even a little later, the company line from Doug and everyone seemed to be that VII was a challenge but VIII was the show pretty much back close to its best.

It was only when the Dave era came around that Doug acknowledged that maybe things changed too much with VIII.

[Flap Jack]

Obviously, it has gone down in people’s estimations since, but I don’t
feel as strongly about it as some do. Rimmer and the Cat have never
shown any respect for women and Lister has sometimes been portrayed as
imperfect in that regard (eg.hot oil wrestling).

OK, but there’s a pretty massive difference between being casually sexist/objectifying about women and being actively complicit in a nonconsensual pornography scheme. There’s basically no precedent for Lister and Rimmer behaving so abominably, and if there were then I likely wouldn’t be a fan of Red Dwarf to begin with.

The closest thing for Rimmer is him sleeping with Yvonne McGruder when she was possibly concussed, but that is at least ambiguous (both in the possibility that she was actually fine and Lister just says that to wind Rimmer up, and in the possibility that Rimmer himself didn’t know at the time).

And the closest thing for Lister is the bit about him putting mirrors on his shoes so he could look up women’s skirts, which I absolutely hated too, for the same core reason I hate how he is in Krytie TV.

Also, I am a little concerned by your implicit suggestion that men who enjoy watching softcore porn are more believable as people who’d sexually exploit women. I’m pretty sure we’re a few waves of feminism beyond the point where consent was a non-factor in these judgements.

[International Debris]

I mean, if we’re to believe Rimmer slept with a woman who thought he was someone else and he blames her for it, and we’re to believe he actually hypnotised a woman into going on a date with him, then I’d say it’s not much of a stretch. Certainly those two scenarios are presented as things he personally believes happened. 

For me the issue is the fact that a bulk of the episode is taken up with it. There are questionable attitudes expressed by all of the characters at some point earlier in the show – laddishness of the ‘80s and ‘90s was pretty much unavoidable in a programme written, produced and performed almost exclusively by men – but they’re usually brief asides, and in the case of Rimmer’s past mentioned earlier, portrayed in a negative light. Krytie TV has it happen on screen, presented in a very light hearted way, and then has the character who is the moral heart of the show try to defend himself to one of the women involved. And while Kochanski’s reaction is actually completely reasonable and, I think, intended to be the closest thing to a message that the show has, it feels inconsequential in comparison with the “lads will be lads” vibe of the rest of the episode. 

I think there are worse examples of misogyny in VIII – “you would have been on top and I could have used you as a human shield” is truly repulsive – but it’s the amount of it in the episode that makes it stand out.

[Turk Thrust]

Obviously, it has gone down in people’s estimations since, but I don’t
feel as strongly about it as some do. Rimmer and the Cat have never
shown any respect for women and Lister has sometimes been portrayed as
imperfect in that regard (eg.hot oil wrestling).
OK, but there’s a pretty massive difference between being casually sexist/objectifying about women and being actively complicit in a nonconsensual pornography scheme. There’s basically no precedent for Lister and Rimmer behaving so abominably, and if there were then I likely wouldn’t be a fan of Red Dwarf to begin with.
The closest thing for Rimmer is him sleeping with Yvonne McGruder when she was possibly concussed, but that is at least ambiguous (both in the possibility that she was actually fine and Lister just says that to wind Rimmer up, and in the possibility that Rimmer himself didn’t know at the time).
And the closest thing for Lister is the bit about him putting mirrors on his shoes so he could look up women’s skirts, which I absolutely hated too, for the same core reason I hate how he is in Krytie TV.
Also, I am a little concerned by your implicit suggestion that men who enjoy watching softcore porn are more believable as people who’d sexually exploit women. I’m pretty sure we’re a few waves of feminism beyond the point where consent was a non-factor in these judgements.

Whoa there, please don’t put words in my mouth.

I can completely get that people would say Lister should have stopped watching immediately. I just don’t think that Doug (or anyone upon first viewing) thought, “Lister is complicit in a nonconsensual pornography scheme.”

What’s more interesting to me is why Doug took those choices. Kryten was classified as a woman because Doug needed to pair someone up with Kochanski. I guess this episode was another way of trying to include her. I certainly don’t consider it great writing or particularly imaginative, but if you have a men’s and women’s prison in a show, the men trying to spy on or get close to the women is a likely storyline.

[Flap Jack]

Whoa there, please don’t put words in my mouth.

I didn’t! That’s why I used the word “implicit”. But if your comment is very much suggesting that Lister’s actions in Krytie TV are at least slightly less of a stretch because Lister watched porn once, I’m not sure how else to take your meaning. Obviously the important context is that you don’t think Krytie TV reflects nearly as badly on Lister as I do, but I’m just disagreeing with the notion that watching hot oil wrestling is problematic in and of itself.

I can completely get that people would say Lister should have stopped
watching immediately. I just don’t think that Doug (or anyone upon first
viewing) thought, “Lister is complicit in a nonconsensual pornography
scheme.”

Doug and many first time viewers may well have thought that, but they’re wrong. This is the literal plot of the episode. Not walking out immediately is a debatable aspect, but watching for the entire evening and not reporting it or otherwise trying to stop it and waiting so long to tell Kochanski about it? That is textbook complicity. Granted, Lister is better than Rimmer and all the other male prisoners because he did tell Kochanski eventually, but that is a low bar. It’s clear from the way it plays out that if Kryten hadn’t made “shower night live” a recurring event and belittled Kochanski further with the pogo stick idea – or if none of the female prisoners had a personal connection with Lister – then he never would have told anyone about it.

What’s more interesting to me is why Doug took those choices. Kryten was
classified as a woman because Doug needed to pair someone up with
Kochanski. I guess this episode was another way of trying to include
her. I certainly don’t consider it great writing or particularly
imaginative, but if you have a men’s and women’s prison in a show, the
men trying to spy on or get close to the women is a likely storyline.

I have serious doubts that the only way to include Kochanski in Series VIII plots was to make her a victim of criminal perversion (for a start, she’s in the Canaries with everyone else), but if it’s true then it’s just another reason not to do this prison storyline in the first place. Doug’s hand wasn’t forced here. Every major aspect of Series VIII was his decision.

[Rushy]

Has anyone ever asked why he did the prison storyline? 

[Dax101]

Kryten is a women because he doesnt have a dick. Thats the main joke of the idea. 

[Turk Thrust]

Whoa there, please don’t put words in my mouth.
I didn’t! That’s why I used the word “implicit”. But if your comment is very much suggesting that Lister’s actions in Krytie TV are at least slightly less of a stretch because Lister watched porn once, I’m not sure how else to take your meaning. Obviously the important context is that you don’t think Krytie TV reflects nearly as badly on Lister as I do, but I’m just disagreeing with the notion that watching hot oil wrestling is problematic in and of itself.
I can completely get that people would say Lister should have stopped
watching immediately. I just don’t think that Doug (or anyone upon first
viewing) thought, “Lister is complicit in a nonconsensual pornography
scheme.”
Doug and many first time viewers may well have thought that, but they’re wrong. This is the literal plot of the episode. Not walking out immediately is a debatable aspect, but watching for the entire evening and not reporting it or otherwise trying to stop it and waiting so long to tell Kochanski about it? That is textbook complicity. Granted, Lister is better than Rimmer and all the other male prisoners because he did tell Kochanski eventually, but that is a low bar. It’s clear from the way it plays out that if Kryten hadn’t made “shower night live” a recurring event and belittled Kochanski further with the pogo stick idea – or if none of the female prisoners had a personal connection with Lister – then he never would have told anyone about it.
What’s more interesting to me is why Doug took those choices. Kryten was
classified as a woman because Doug needed to pair someone up with
Kochanski. I guess this episode was another way of trying to include
her. I certainly don’t consider it great writing or particularly
imaginative, but if you have a men’s and women’s prison in a show, the
men trying to spy on or get close to the women is a likely storyline.
I have serious doubts that the only way to include Kochanski in Series VIII plots was to make her a victim of criminal perversion (for a start, she’s in the Canaries with everyone else), but if it’s true then it’s just another reason not to do this prison storyline in the first place. Doug’s hand wasn’t forced here. Every major aspect of Series VIII was his decision.

Nobody has said that, “the only way to include Kochanski in Series VIII plots was to make her a victim of criminal perversion.” 
Thank you for mentioning the pogo stick, though. It made me chuckle and reminded me that Series VIII is Carry On Red Dwarf. All of the characters are exaggerated versions of themselves and even the guest characters are missing an eyeball or have never previously seen a woman naked.
I don’t think Lister would credibly behave in the way he did in this episode, but I don’t believe a huge number of the character moments in Series VIII. It’s a weak series in terms of plotting and characterization, but has some laughs here and there.
I can respect if some people feel offended, but I can’t really get too worked up about a Beadle’s About knockoff. ;)

[Flap Jack]

Nobody has said that, “the only way to include Kochanski in Series VIII plots was to make her a victim of criminal perversion.”

Totally fair. I was just reasoning out from “I guess this episode was another way of trying to include her.” that the only way of justifying the plot of Krytie TV as an extra way of including Kochanski is if there were literally no other options.

[Warbodog]

Well, I’m going to carry on with this.

[Dave]

Has anyone ever asked why he did the prison storyline? 

Porridge in space.

[Dax101]

I think Doug brought back the crew because he knew he was going to reboot with the Movie and was likely going to bring Mac back as hollister. I think in some way Series 7 and 8 were testers for the movie. In terms of writing could also get that engine going.

[Unrumble]

Kryten is a women because he doesnt have a dick. Thats the main joke of the idea. 

[Podey]

I think I would actually have been really interested to, say, read a ‘Red Dwarf’ book with the premise of series 8, something in it’s own little bubble that’s a more considered version of the story and doesn’t impact on the main show.

[gerrydelasel]

Doug can’t write Red Dwarf, not without Rob. He doesn’t understand the characters; he writes them as charicatures. He doesn’t understand the atmopshere; he writes it like pantomime. He can’t do pathos, he doesn’t even try. He can’t do dialogue; his gags read like RD fan fiction and he is obsessed with toilet humour and rape jokes. The only good episode after series 6 was Stoke Me a Clipper, and I’m only giving that a B+. [/unpopular opinion]

[Rushy]

[Dave]

He doesn’t understand the characters; he writes them as charicatures. He doesn’t understand the atmopshere; he writes it like pantomime. He can’t do pathos, he doesn’t even try.

[Frank Smeghammer]

Doug can’t write Red Dwarf, not without Rob. He doesn’t understand the characters; he writes them as charicatures. He doesn’t understand the atmopshere; he writes it like pantomime. He can’t do pathos, he doesn’t even try. He can’t do dialogue; his gags read like RD fan fiction and he is obsessed with toilet humour and rape jokes. The only good episode after series 6 was Stoke Me a Clipper, and I’m only giving that a B+. [/unpopular opinion]

Well I think some of your observations are more popular than you think, with regards to Series VIII toilet rumour and rape jokes. I think it’s pretty commonly accepted that a lot of that stuff was quite poor.

I think you’re a touch overdramatic to say he can’t write Red Dwarf though. Do you really not enjoy anything after Series VI (Stoke Me A Clipper aside)?

[gerrydelasel]

Do you really not enjoy anything after Series VI (Stoke Me A Clipper aside)?


Bits of it. I only watched series 8 to 10 one time and never again, as it left such a bad taste in my mouth. I just lost all faith in anything written solely by Doug. I remember some episode ideas from the Dave era that had real potential, but just when I thought I was enjoying it there would be some cringe dialogue that would break the spell, or the story would take some eye-roll turn. Oh, they’re going to meet Adoph Hitler *again*?? Yawnarama.
Still, it’s nice to be on a forum where I don’t get downvoted into a black hole for not liking reboot-era RD.

[Rushy]

If Doug has some limitation in terms of writing Red Dwarf, then I feel it’s his understanding of cruelty. 

Human beings can be so wonderfully creatively cruel, and Rimmer is kind of the poster boy for that in terms of how he treats others, how he treats himself and how he’s been treated in the past. I don’t think anything Rimmer experiences in Doug Dwarf is as viscerally real as those marathon chapters in the Backwards novel. Every emotional reaction is so intricately drawn that it feels borderline autobiographical. 

Not saying Rob had those experiences, but he understands them. 

Doug seems to have a much more positive, softer view of the world and his material shines the most when it’s focusing on that sort of thing. The restoration of Lister’s sense of worth in BTE, Rimmer having a victory over his father in The Beginning. That’s Doug’s strength and I don’t know if Rob could have written that. 

[Unrumble]

[gerrydelasel]

I love that gif!

[Dax101]

While i think the moonlight stuff is a pretty decent bit of pathos for the Promise Land, i do think people have overrated it somewhat as if Red Dwarf hasn’t had pathos untill now. Which it could be argued its just that there isn’t a lot of it in the Dave Era, while there was a few counts of it in the BBC era. Including some Doug episodes in series 7.

In terms of whether Doug can do it… I think he can, i just don’t often think its his main aim in writing these days. His mind aim is the big ideas and the comedy. for example look at Krysis, at the end Kryten comes to this conclusion that is meant to bring him out of his slump and if i remember right its just “love” or something to that degree. And i don’t quite get how that connects to Krytens emotional state in order to snap him out of his “Krysis”. It feels like Doug pulled a generic bit of pathos out of his butt that had nothing to do with anything and was like there ya go, all better. I have always found it weird. If you wanted to use the idea of “love” why not have Kryten realise Rimmer, Cat and Lister put a lot of effort into making him feel better that the whole goal of life is love and family. But he didn’t connect those dots and i ain’t willing to connect those for him to think thats what he was really getting at.

[Ben Saunders]

That bit in Siliconia with Rimmer would be good pathos if it wasn’t pointlessly undermined by Cat, BTE has good pathos, there’s some in The Beginning.

[Dax101]

I think for me the pathos works best when it feels earned. BTE has some moments, but they kinda feel like what they are, added on after the script was complete. So a lot of the connections to make it impactful feel a little loose.

Wasn’t it said that Andrew Ellard came up with the Kochaski scene at the end?

[gerrydelasel]

That bit in Siliconia with Rimmer would be good pathos if it wasn’t pointlessly undermined by Cat

I feel like somebody once told him “hey, Cat doesn’t get many lines”, and ever since he’s been giving Cat way too many lines.

[Rushy]

Maybe that’s why I only started loving the Cat in the Dave era

[gerrydelasel]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I think saying Doug can’t write Red Dwarf if the unpopular opinion, the rest of it is incredible subjective and I think at times either oversimplified and wrong

The focus on pathos for example assumes bubble era is full of it, which it isn’t. When it does it, it does it well, but also undercuts it with jokes. But it’s not like the show isn’t comedy first.

Dave era has plenty of mix of the two, but it primarily comedy first.

Series VIII is about as bad as it gets for Doug, but large parts of VII (the presentation aside) and BTE onwards are really good TV, sorties and comedy.

At times doing something different and aiming for different things, but lets no pretend Series IV is different to series II or that VI is different to any of the previous series.

As for character, X has two Rimmer focused episodes that absolutely nail who he is and that continues into XI an XII.

Cat has never really has a lot of focus on him, but he is given Can of Worms and TPL with varying success

Same goes for Kryten with things like Krysis which I think really does a good job of showing Kryten for the person he is now, having spent all this time with the crew.

There’s definitely certain critiques to be had that the Dave era is at times broader in execution than earlier series. But equally I thinks we often overlook at a lot of the silliness, cartoonishness, pathos less, character unfocused episodes of the 36 bubble because of their place in Red Dwarf’s hall of fame so to speak. We put them on a pedestal and don’t view them through the same lens we do later episodes we experienced a little later in life.

[Author]

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