Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

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  • #234270
    Dax101
    Participant

    >It wasn’t written with an audience in mind

    Well according to Doug the thought of having an audience was there, its just they couldn’t afford one.

    One idea was to have the audience for everything before they go “back to earth” and then the laughter track would be gone for their earth adventure. which would certainly add an even more meta feel to it.

    #234271
    Jawscvmcdia
    Participant

    I prefer the captain as “Dennis the Donut Boy”.

    #234272
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I’ve started to enjoy Jawscvmcdia’s forum threads.

    #234280

    I thought BtE was worse than VIII when it went out. After watching the whole run through with my girlfriend and getting a bit of an ‘experiencing the show for the first time’ thing vicariously through her, I remembered what made the show great and BtE suddenly felt light years ahead of VIII. I still don’t think it’s especially good, but it is at least Red Dwarf, and listening to Doug’s commentary was a wonderful optimistic moment that made me think he’d rediscovered the show he was writing 20 years before again.

    #234281
    Dax101
    Participant

    You do get alot of insight into Dougs mindset in the commentary. for good and for bad IMO.

    #234294
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    To me, the lack of an audience was really felt in episode 1, but it wasn’t too noticeable in episodes 2 and 3. So doing it either way wouldn’t quite work.

    Actually, imagine if episode 1 had a studio audience, but then the audience was absent from the moment they go into the “real” world? That could have been an amazing way to add to the misdirection of the plot.

    Or it could have been terrible. I don’t know, I’m just some asshole on the internet.

    #234296

    It’s been suggested before, and yes, I think it would be brilliant. Suddenly not having the audience would really give such a strange change of tone that it would really drive home how odd the moment is.

    #234298
    Dax101
    Participant

    It would drive home that the crew just stepped out of the tv show boundries and into the real world.

    Basically the same as what it was, just more meta, and just as silly.

    #234300
    bloodteller
    Participant

    yeah, that would’ve been quite good.

    #234303
    clem
    Participant

    It’s mainly the Blade Runner stuff that drags down BTE for me. I agree having an audience until they get to Earth could have been really good. Doesn’t it go a bit handheld and less sitcom looking when they enter the “real world”?
    That might only be because a lot of the Earth stuff was filmed on location, though.

    #234304
    clem
    Participant

    Which of course was done out of necessity, so it’s not necessarily something they were going for.

    #234307
    Dax101
    Participant

    Personally i am glad they just didn’t have an audience at all. i really wouldn’t want the audience acknowledged like that no matter how more meta it is to convince the audience they were in our world and not the tv show world.

    #234308
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    I really hate the Blade Runner stuff it just doesn’t go for me at all. I know Doug loves Blade Runner, I love Blade Runner, but that doesn’t mean I try and crowbar it in to my work. A little reference is ok, a pinch of salt to some caramel, it can enhance the flavour, but Doug poured a tin of Carnation caramel onto a grit silo.

    #234330
    Hamish
    Participant

    And I am not even particularly fond of Blade Runner.

    #234331
    flanl3
    Participant

    I am not a massive fan of blades or running, myself.

    #234384
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    One idea was to have the audience for everything before they go “back to earth” and then the laughter track would be gone for their earth adventure. which would certainly add an even more meta feel to it.

    I always thought that was a fan-idea rather than one that’d come up during production, but it was something I always liked the idea of.

    #234387
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    I just never took Blade Runner to be a massive influence on the film. I thought Grant Naylor was fairly adamant it was Dark Star.

    #234423
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The Blade Runner stuff didn’t bother me any more than the Terminator stuff in “The Last Day” or the Casablanca stuff in “Camille”. I think it worked just fine.

    #234430
    tombow
    Participant

    The voice swapping in Bodyswap is fine and works well for the idea.

    #234439
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I don’t mind them doing Blade Runner, I just hate the line about Blade Runner being THE inspiration for Red Dwarf when it’s far from evident outside of this one and Back to Reality (unless it’s supposed to be some further squiddy link between those two episodes).

    It makes even less sense in-universe – if they’ve seen Blade Runner, hearing that their lives were based on it would just seem nonsensical. I’d be fine with Alien, maybe 2001, haven’t seen Dark Star.

    #234440
    bloodteller
    Participant

    >The Blade Runner stuff didn’t bother me any more than the Terminator stuff in “The Last Day” or the Casablanca stuff in “Camille”

    there’s also the Alien stuff in Polymorph, and the Westworld stuff in Meltdown. Red Dwarf doing direct parodies of things isn’t anything new, so it didn’t feel at all out of place in Back To Earth for me.

    #234441
    Hamish
    Participant

    Meltdown borrows the premise, but is not a direct parody.

    “Clues” is not a parody of “Thanks for the Memory”.

    #234445
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    The way Red Dwarf typically handles references compared to the way it handles them in Back to Earth, is like comparing Spaced to Ready Player One.

    #234447
    Dave
    Participant

    Also Robocop in DNA.

    #234448
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The way Red Dwarf typically handles references compared to the way it handles them in Back to Earth, is like comparing Spaced to Ready Player One.

    I think that is more often than not the case, yes, but the show has plenty of overt examples of parody. “DNA” is one of them, specifically the Jaws reference, and the Casablanca stuff in “Camille” isn’t exactly subtle.

    Granted, BTE is the only example I can think of where the show actively states the name the thing it’s parodying, and we can argue about whether or not that was appropriate until the cow’s come home (or not, let’s actually not do that, please for the love of God) but it’s not something that bothers me, it doesn’t stick out much more than other overt parody in the show, and I’m fine with it.

    #234451
    Dave
    Participant

    “DNA” is one of them, specifically the Jaws reference

    Dimension Jump, surely.

    DNA has mini-Robocop and a Die Hard gag though.

    #234452
    Dave
    Participant

    Oh, you mean the bit with the lager can – I thought you meant the parts where the show explicitly references an existing property by name, like Jaws in Dimension Jump and Casablanca in Camille.

    #234454
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I can’t believe I said BTE was the only example etc. etc. wow, I’m an idiot.

    #234455
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    >Granted, BTE is the only example I can think of where the show actively states the name the thing it’s parodying
    Camille does as well

    #234456
    Bargain Bin Holly
    Participant

    Rimmer’s death is a reference to Citizen Kane in Me² and gazpacho soup is a reference to rosebud

    Later in the episode, Lister tells Rimmer he and Cat are watching Citizen Kane at the cinema

    #234457

    The subtle-as-a-brick referencing of Blade Runner in BtE is obviously different to previous homages because of its meta nature, but it does seem a bit heavy going, outright copying sections without even a joke attached.

    The idea that Blade Runner was the main inspiration behind Red Dwarf is absurd. They don’t really share much. You can see Dark Star and Alien in Red Dwarf, but not Blade Runner.

    #234458
    Bargain Bin Holly
    Participant

    Mimas in IWCD always gave me Blade Runner vibes

    #234460
    tombow
    Participant

    Little off topic but, I read William Gibson’s Neuromancer recently and I was surprised at how RD-feeling it was, everything from the writing style being similar to the novels, VR worlds where people are tempted to stay with lost loves, A.I.s with cheeky personalities running ships, even afro-Caribbean guys with dreads being main characters.

    #234461
    bloodteller
    Participant

    >Mimas in IWCD always gave me Blade Runner vibes

    it reminded me more of New York, especially with the descriptions of the traffic

    #258076
    Veni
    Participant

    Related to the special, I really don’t care if it focuses on Cat, despite seemingly everybody else’s thoughts.

    Yes, the felis sapiens are returning, and I think it’d be great for a Cat subplot to emerge with a possible love interest, but beyond that it should be a Lister story ala Waiting for God which focused on Lister (despite my prior claims it was a Cat-centric story when I ranked all the episodes, and even then I admitted I was bullshitting).

    Cat is largely one-dimensional and a comic relief, yes, he has details related to him like his clothing, or certain traits and dislikes he may possess, but 90 minutes dedicated to him? God no.

    People always moan about him being an asshole in XI and XII, he was literally, always an asshole. He’s a dick during Rimmer’s sendoff in Me2, he mocks Rimmer in Thanks for the Memory behind his back about how many times he’s had sex, he mocks Holly during his battle with Queeg (and don’t give me the entire crew weren’t behind him, this was after Holly had confronted them about not supporting him and Cat does it again anyway), he openly tells Lister he doesn’t give a shit about him in Backwards. Cat is a douchebag, that’s his character. If anything he’s way more sympathetic in Dave Dwarf cause he actually has flaws.

    I don’t know, I never liked the character much to begin with anyway, so feel how you want to.

    #258077
    Spaceworm Jim
    Participant

    Is the special actually focusing on Cat? The press release made it sound like it was more of a Lister story. Waiting for God isn’t an episode focused on Cat even though the story of his species is the only thing resembling a moving plot in it, as Rimmer’s garbage pod story is entirely static. Even Can of Worms isn’t really revealing anything new about the Cat, or interesting about any of the characters.

    Cat doesn’t mock Holly during the battle with Queeg, he offers him (admittedly not very helpful) advice. Other than that, I broadly agree with you, Veni, except I think the difference between Cat’s arseholeness in the earlier series and these latest ones is that he was funnier in the old days. “Let’s get out of here before they bring him back!” is far funnier than that one from Entangled, “except for me, him and him”, which I think is an abysmal line and makes me cringe just as much as the Blue Midget dance from Back in the Red. Is that an unpopular opinion? I don’t know, I’m pretty mainstream and bland when it comes to opinions. I think Kryten is funnier than Rimmer in Series 6?

    The guy who hosts the Empire podcast said Red Dwarf 1 and 2 were crap and it only took off when Kryten joined, which left me almost annoyed! This is a bit apropos of nothing, but I have nowhere else to vent about that.

    Whatever, though, you can feel how you want to. That’s probably how feelings work.

    #258079
    Dax101
    Participant

    Going by the Gazpacho Soup article. yeah its bit more focused on Lister. but Rimmer and cat do get some story focus too.

    #258081
    Veni
    Participant

    I was more so referring to Cat’s, “Bye, bye, baldy,” remark in Queeg.

    I definitely agree, though, Kryten in series VI is what made me really love the character, so he blows everyone else out of the water in that series if you ask me.

    #258085

    Cat is largely one-dimensional and a comic relief, yes, he has details related to him like his clothing, or certain traits and dislikes he may possess, but 90 minutes dedicated to him? God no.

    In large part because he hasn’t ever really been given anything to actually flesh him out much as a character. Yes, he has been used as one-dimensional comic relief, but there really isn’t any reason that a Cat focused story shouldn’t work if that’s what Doug decided to do. There’s actually a lot about the Cat we don’t know, there’s a whole history to him prior to meeting Lister and Rimmer that we know nothing about. That could be good to explore in the right setting, and meeting his own people after all this time could just well do that.

    #258086
    Dave
    Participant

    I’m hoping for extensive “young Cat” flashbacks featuring a digitally-youthed Danny John-Jules, Marvel style, but on a Red Dwarf budget.

    #258090
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    Red Dwarf: Genisys.

    #258092
    si
    Participant

    Red Dwarf: Genisys.

    Red Dwarf: Mega Dryve.

    #258093
    Dax101
    Participant

    >I’m hoping for extensive “young Cat” flashbacks featuring a digitally-youthed Danny John-Jules, Marvel style, but on a Red Dwarf budget.

    If Doug could afford de-aging effects, he probably would write a whole episode around it. dunno how much of the budget would be left over for everything else though.

    #258095
    Dave
    Participant

    Digital youthing on a Red Dwarf budget would be DJJ running around wearing a cardboard cutout of his face circa The End.

    #258096

    Just use his nephew who played young Lister. Granted he’d be mid 20s by now, but I’m sure it’d work.

    #258097
    Veni
    Participant

    Yes, he has been used as one-dimensional comic relief, but there really isn’t any reason that a Cat focused story shouldn’t work if that’s what Doug decided to do. There’s actually a lot about the Cat we don’t know, there’s a whole history to him prior to meeting Lister and Rimmer that we know nothing about. That could be good to explore in the right setting, and meeting his own people after all this time could just well do that.

    The main point is I don’t care much for the character to begin with, so unless the movie is able to make him sympathize with him in the movie itself, I’m not going to be bothered.

    #258098
    Ridley
    Participant

    Digital youthing on a Red Dwarf budget would be DJJ running around wearing a cardboard cutout of his face circa The End.

    They should do that though.

    #258107
    desbug
    Participant

    He youthed me!

    #258328
    Offline
    Participant

    Series VI is my favourite of them all but I do agree that Emohawk and Rimmerworld are woefully average retreads at best and Psirens needed one or two more drafts to take it into great territory. Legion, Gunmen and Out of Time are absolute crackers though and the reason it elevates to the top for me.

    #258378
    Shoes Have Soles
    Participant

    RD works better without Holly since Kryten was introduced and they should stop trying to bring the character back. Sorry Norm/Hattie.

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