Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Your Unpopular Red Dwarf Opinions

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  • #263093
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    That’d mean they’ve paid a model maker to make them out of more suitable model materials like ABS and resin parts, and if they’ve done that, why wouldn’t they just pay The Model Unit to rent out their proper Starbugs and scan those in? You’d imagine that’d be cheaper than paying someone to make some even if The Model Unit are pricey per hour.

    If they were 3D printed for crashing purposes, then that’s a bit daft mechanically and financially, you wouldn’t make it with binder jetting, because it just breaks (as the behind the scenes stuff shows, where it crashed and the arse fell off).

    There’s a video of them scanning a Starbug on their website and that has the sort of sandy texture of that kind of 3D print so who knows.

    #263333
    Katydid
    Participant

    I might have said this before, but as good as the opening few scenes are I think Parallel Universe utterly falls apart as soon as they meet the female crew and becomes one of the weakest episodes in the original six series.

    People who dispute that this episode isn’t that good overall always cite me moments from those opening few scenes.

    #263349
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Parallel Universe has some decent bits later on too, but it’s hard to top the opening. Really, instead of it ending with the cliffhanger about Lister being pregnant, it should have ended with the reveal that the trip to the gender-flipped universe was all a dream, but Tongue Tied was real.

    #263350
    Renegade Rob
    Participant

    But then you’d lose the continuity callback to the twins in Future Echoes.

    The idea that Act One of Parallel Universe is pretty great but deteriorates quickly upon their arrival on the female Dwarf seems pretty well-agreed upon (that disco scene too goes on FOREVER, like a quarter of the whole episode is them twatting about at the disco).

    What’s weird to me is that each series is usually pretty consistent, at least in the Grant/Naylor era, like even if there are ups and downs, the tone, production, and general quality are pretty static series to series. But unlike the other five Grant/Naylor series, Series II has this weird outlier where it’s like GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, A BIT RUBBISH.

    It’s weird, because even other “not great” episodes of the bubble are of a type with the rest of their series. Waiting for God gets some guff, but it’s still pretty firmly a Series I episode, not too far off from the rest. And Emohawk is clearly the weakest VI episode, but it’s not part of a series where every other episode is a stone-cold classic. But Parallel Universe is just a bizarre anomaly, weighing down what otherwise is essentially a perfect series.

    #263361
    Katydid
    Participant

    Series II and V were my highest rated on the poll. Both have their respective weak spots, but Demons & Angels is probably a better episode than Parallel Universe.

    #263367

    Apparently my unpopular Red Dwarf opinion is that I really like Parallel Universe.

    #263368

    Same. The back half is no more middling than Thanks for the Memory. It’s just a story playing out with some gags. Nothing ground breaking but it’s fun enough. I really enjoy seeing Arlene coming on strong to Arnie and him being really uncomfortable.

    Dog is a bit rubbish, but that’s the only thing I’d take out I think.

    #263369
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    turning men into women must be a British comedy writer thing – Leaving aside Monty Python, Roger Price’s “You Can’t Do That on Television” – the episode where Valerie Prevert wishes for a daughter and Doug Ptolemy is magically turned into one (from the character’s dismay and mournfulness it can be inferred that Doug has realized he is now a she in the private area in addition to the dress).

    #263374

    Character gender/sex swapping isn’t a mind blowingly original idea, especially in comedy and sci-fi where body swapping and alternate versions of characters is a thing that comes up from time to time.

    It slots into the out of character troupe sci-fi does a lot where it takes the characters you know and adjusts them in someway so they behave, well, out of character. And Red Dwarf relies on that heavily to explore its characters and happens with regular occurrence.

    #263383

    I don’t particularly like the opening post II guitar theme tune. I know that is probably a hangable offense. I just prefer the original, more downbeat version in I-II.

    #263384

    Yeah, I’d quite happily take the original credits over the guitar & clips version.
    No idea how they’d have done it for VI and VII, though.

    #263385
    Dax101
    Participant

    I think the series 1 and 2 opening gave off a really lonely and isolated feel. which i think would work for series 1-5. 6 onwards is were that tones aren’t quite there anymore. even the Dave era where you could argue puts everything back to status-quo still feels like a fairly populated universe to work for that tone.

    #263386
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    The original opening makes me feel weirdly nostalgic for the first time I watched show.

    (I watched Series 1 and 2 for the first time a few weeks before seeing 3 for the first time, so that makes no fucking sense, but there we are)

    I think they should have brought back the original opening theme for the start of The Promised Land to lend it a more cinematic style. I’d have also preferred the actor credits just accompanying new footage rather than clips of the, em, film you’re about to watch.

    #263387

    The series 1-2 opening would have fit TPL better. It even hints that it’s transitioning into before baiting and switching and going into the guitar theme.

    I get why though. For streaming they split the episode in two, so two sets of opening and closing credits so creating a montage titles sequence for that makes sense.

    #263388
    Katydid
    Participant

    Not to get too off-topic, but the TPL opening montage felt very spoilery to me. Like you’re seeing all the most visually impressive things in the entire special right away with little left to surprise you.

    Same. The back half is no more middling than Thanks for the Memory.

    You forgot to specify that Thanks for the Memory being middling was your incredibly unpopular opinion.

    #263390
    By Jove its holmes
    Participant

    Rimmer himself says *exactly* why Thanks for the Memory is cruel to people in the audience who have suffered in life and been offered false hope: “You’ve destroyed me, Lister”.

    #263391
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Yeah, I’d quite happily take the original credits over the guitar & clips version.

    No idea how they’d have done it for VI and VII, though.

    They’d redo the entire thing with Starbug as the object instead of Red Dwarf. The theme song would be mostly the same arrangement as Series 1-2, except it would be performed on the kazoo.

    #263395
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    Yeah, I’d quite happily take the original credits over the guitar & clips version.

    No idea how they’d have done it for VI and VII, though.
    They’d redo the entire thing with Starbug as the object instead of Red Dwarf. The theme song would be mostly the same arrangement as Series 1-2, except it would be performed on the kazoo.

    I’d actually like to see that.

    It starts on Kryten cleaning Starbug’s windscreen and then it pulls out and you realise he’s in space and he’s tethered himself to Starbug’s leg with his groinal attachment hose.

    #264260
    Lee Bee
    Blocked

    Hi folks, new member here. I’ve been watching Red Dwarf well over 30 years so it’s probably time I signed up here. :-) And here are my brutally honest thoughts on the series as a whole…

    Overall, I’m a Series 3–8 fan, through-and-through.

    Boys vs girls

    I do like Norman, but much prefer Hattie, and sorely miss her! If I were writing the show, Hattie would be back as the computer, with Norman popping up now and again for special appearances.

    I loved Chloë Annett being a regular castmember. It was great to have a totally unobtainable posh bird for Lister (and Rimmer) to drool over, and ‘Cassandra’ is possibly my favourite episode ever, a perfect blend of sci-fi and humour.

    If I were writing Red Dwarf, it would still essentially be about the four boys, but I’d definitely have Kochanski as a secondary/recurring character, perhaps stationed on Red Dwarf while the boys go off on missions. Oh, I also love Professor Edgington (Entangled) and want her back too!

    Scripts

    Script-wise, I think the quality of the scripts has been generally very consistent across the entire run of the series with some excellent episodes in just about every series.

    I did miss Rob Grant, but I think Mr Naylor carried the show very well on his own and I have no objection to series 7 or 8, or Back To Earth. Enjoyed it all, as well as most of the new series. ‘Dear Dave’ was OK.

    One I find difficult to re-watch is ‘Lemons’, which left a bad taste in my mouth, blending questionable taste with naive commentary of the Biblical faith.

    Like many, I hated Mechochracy. M-Corp, too. I am sick of the ‘bitchy female computer takes over Red Dwarf’ cliché. I just want Hattie back now, though Norman is better than nothing. Red Dwarf is a big, empty place without a friendly computer presiding over it.

    Timewave kind of sucks, but isn’t that kind of the point? In an age of beloved franchises being hijacked by absurd politics, Timewave is a much-needed finger up to political correctness and ‘speech police’. I can almost imagine Mr Naylor wanting people to tear Timewave to shreds, because expressing our opinion is a right we should all have. (Sadly no longer a liberty in large parts of the internet now, as the world becomes more intolerant of anyone who is different.)

    Visual design

    Scripts aside, I’m actually someone who places the highest importance on visual design (sets, lighting, etc). I’d honestly rather have mediocre episodes set in an attractive world, than great episodes in an ugly world!

    I love (and desperately miss) the cream-coloured Officers’ Quarters. I abhor the infamous “Ocean Grey” of the first two series, and the return to grey in Back To Earth. I hate the new red quarters, and, especially, the various new incarnations of Starbug interior. I hate all the CGI of 7, 8 and the Remasters.

    I don’t like the cold, hostile, dystopian look of the newer series. I liked Red Dwarf when it looked warm and comfortable, like somewhere you could actually live. I also liked the cosiness of them living on Starbug in series 6 & 7 (Red Dwarf was always a bit too big, really).

    One of the things I hate the most about the new series is all the vivid blue lights everywhere. To me, that really spoils the show. Vivid blue is a really unpleasant colour.

    They lost Red Dwarf after series 5, and in some ways I feel as though they never really found it again. Not the real Red Dwarf, anyway. Just a series of imposter ships!

    Characters

    One of the reasons I love series 3–8 is that Dave, Arnold and the Cat were true BUDDIES.

    Rimmer was still neurotic and back-stabbing, but he had mellowed and become far less severe and more likeable. More of a hopeless dork than an outright arsehole.

    Cat, too, had evolved. He was still shallow and simple-minded, but had become sufficiently intelligent that he was now a true friend to Lister. (A shift in dynamics I felt was truly cemented with the ‘Wilma Flintstone’ conversation.)

    Cat has never been intellectually clever, but in the 3–8 era, he had a strong social perception that made his character feel very ‘switched-on’, and therefore genuinely ‘cool’. (In contrast, a total idiot cannot be cool.)

    Unfortunately, both these characters have been reverted in recent years, and I’m really not too happy about that. Rimmer is back to being antagonistic, and Cat is back to being moronic. It’s like Dave has lost his two best friends, and that’s actually sad.

    As for Dave himself, my only regret is that he has never really evolved. I never liked him being a slob and always wished they would leave the ‘slob’ joke behind – at least the physical hygiene side of it (he can still be an underachieving drifter).

    The romantic part of me hopes that one day, Dave will find the girl of his dreams, and they’ll live happily ever after. And, call me pretentious if you like, but to me, a truly great love story doesn’t involve curry-stained t-shirts and belching.

    Unpopular opinion: I actually loved the American Lister in the pilot! A tall, rugged, handsome, clean-cut guy. Everything Lister is not. Yes, I liked him! LOL

    Oh and Kryten’s always been a truly great character (apart from his unfortunate ‘jealous wife’ phase when Kochanski came aboard).

    Music

    Oh and in case I haven’t done enough to piss people off, I’ll leave you with one final unpopular opinion… (this should really get a few backs up). I don’t like Howard Goodall’s music! OK, obviously, I acknowledge that Howard Goodall is very talented and I do like a lot of his work on other shows. And of course, who doesn’t love the Red Dwarf theme tune?

    But I just really don’t like most of the in-show music cues, especially that god-awful depressing Red Dwarf signature trumpet fanfare, and pretty much everything from the first series (which has been inexplicably resurrected in recent series).

    I just find all that music a bit severe, morbid and depressing. I loved Back To Earth but felt the music (and lack of laughter) really dragged it down. If it had laughter and more uplifting music, I think it could be one of the best episodes (a few other things I’d change but that’s another thread).

    My favourite music cue by far is the series 3 opening text crawl – it fills me with excitement and optimism, and I would have liked to have heard that piece (and music like it) used more often in the series.

    Sorry this was so long… I’m making up for 30 years! :-D

    #264261
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    Heresy! With those opinions about Howard Goodall’s music, this is definitely the right thread for you ;) :p The bleakness was kind of the whole point, but I suppose nobody’s obliged to like it!

    Also, welcome.

    #264263
    Lee Bee
    Blocked

    LOL, thank you sir!

    #264268
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Welcome, Lee Bee. Always glad to have more people on the pro-Hattie Holly team!

    Not going to offer counterpoints for all of your opinions I don’t share, but just to choose one: Bringing Kochanski back as a main character but having her mainly fill a passive, mission control type role would be really bad. Arguably more sexist than just not having her there at all.

    #264269
    Ridley
    Participant

    Crap representation beats non-existence every time.

    But, y’know, if Kochanski was brought back as a main character she should be a main character.

    (Not that I think her absence is sexist.)

    There’s potential in the thing that keeps her distant from the other Dwarfers being that she’s too smart for the room Frasier-style, it’s just that she’s typically portrayed as every woman ever with their sole character trait of being not men.

    #264271
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Hattie love is always a good thing. Norm is fantastic and Holly had some great moments during his era but I really feel a bit sad for Hattie. We’ve had numerous “fan service” Holly’s back! moments from series 7 onward and it’s just a shame that she’s not had a chance to take part in any of them.

    #264291
    Lee Bee
    Blocked

    OK, despite the thread topic, I sincerely don’t wish to cause any bad feelings here, but I have to state that I believe feminism to be unscientific, irrational, harmful to women, and truly sexist.

    Beyond the wacky fantasy world of the media, the majority of real women love being housewives, raising kids, and supporting their family. To deride this vocation is to deride womankind, which is true sexism.

    The differences between male and female physiology (particularly brains) are vast, so the idea that men and women have identical interests and aptitudes is untenable. Gender roles are not a social construction, but a completely natural phenomenon, which is why animals have them, just the same.

    The reason women grow their hair longer is not because of some fashion that’s miraculously pervaded every culture from the beginning of history, but because women have different minds (a fact which transsexualism hinges on entirely, leaving liberals in a state of ambivalence). Aside from being naturally submissive, women are emotionally fragile and delicate, and there is something wrong with a society which encourages men to verbally lay into women as they would other men.

    Sincere apologies if my views offend anyone, but my values represent those of normal British culture (and indeed all historical cultures) up until just a few years ago before everything went potty. I would like to hope that G&T is not a place of narrow-minded bigots with an irrational hatred of anything different to themselves. Hopefully you can accept the “weird and alien-esque” ways of other life forms! :D

    #264292

    Yes, I was fairly sure you were a troll with your anti-PC Timewave nonsense, and it has thus been confirmed. Yawn.

    #264293
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Sorry Lee Bee, did we disappoint you so much by not biting on your first attempt that you had to give in this like so quickly? Very disappointing. I’ll give you 5/10, but that’s mainly for the sheer word count you managed during your time here.

    #264294
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    We should stop giving the benefit of the doubt to new accounts we find suspicious, shouldn’t we?

    #264295
    RunawayTrain
    Participant

    … there is something wrong with a society which encourages men to verbally lay into women as they would other men.

    … my values represent those of normal British culture …

    Normal British culture encourages repressing emotions which is immensely harmful to all people.

    The patriarchy harms men as well as women; feminists don’t stand for allowing men to lay into women physically or verbally, but for everyone to treat each other like decent human beings. Feminists stand for recognising that everyone is an individual person, including that there is no one way to ‘be a man’ (a harmful, outmoded concept that chews up and spits out any man who isn’t deemed macho enough, any man who dares show he has emotions just like those ‘fragile, delicate’ women).

    A shame someone who appears to be a Red Dwarf fan (your first post here displays a knowledge of the show) would spew such excrement. Don’t expect anyone to join you under your bridge.

    #264296
    Dave
    Participant

    Oh for fuck’s sake.

    #264299
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I really don’t understand this traditional “holding period” of a few days before they start posting the real shit they came to say.

    #264300
    Dave
    Participant

    Oh you’re not one of those boring masculinists, are you?

    #264302
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    I really don’t understand this traditional “holding period” of a few days before they start posting the real shit they came to say.

    I think it’s an attempt to fool us into thinking they’re a genuine real person to catch us off guard when they start being a prick. Taking advantage of our good nature, basically. We’re going to see how it goes in the next few days and if there’s any more bother we’ll have to close registration for a while. It’s a shame, but I think the particular collection of people that have been hanging round for the last year or so, joining in with Book Club and Waffle Men and thousands of ideas for episodes and whatnot, have been one of my favourite configurations of regular commenters for ages. We always fluctuate in numbers depending on what’s happening in the world of Dwarf, but the group we’ve settled on this time is a really strong one.

    #264303
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    It’s a smegging garbageman!

    #264304
    Dave
    Participant

    It’s a shame, but I think the particular collection of people that have been hanging round for the last year or so, joining in with Book Club and Waffle Men and thousands of ideas for episodes and whatnot, have been one of my favourite configurations of regular commenters for ages. We always fluctuate in numbers depending on what’s happening in the world of Dwarf, but the group we’ve settled on this time is a really strong one.

    The forum chat is a big part of why I enjoy G&T (obviously in addition to all the great regular coverage and content and Dwarfcasts and whatnot.)

    I lurked here for quite a while, at least since Back To Earth was announced I think, but from memory I only really joined in with the comments since maybe the announcement of XI & XII being commissioned, or somewhere around then. And it’s always felt like a really decent group of people to talk Red Dwarf with.

    I think it’s telling how out of place the usual internet twats feel on the rare occasion that they do interrupt the conversation.

    #264305
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    We always fluctuate in numbers depending on what’s happening in the world of Dwarf, but the group we’ve settled on this time is a really strong one.

    And to think that such a good group of people could collectively be responsible for the Episode Ideas thread. Chilling.

    #264306
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I only really joined in with the comments since maybe the announcement of XI & XII

    My initial thought was you must’ve been around longer than that, but then I remembered just how long ago that announcement was.

    #264310
    evilmorwen
    Participant

    i’ve lurked occasionally for a long time but at some point in the autumn, i realised i’d not seen half of XI and XII, and re-engaged with the show. i watched the ones i hadn’t seen, and then rewatched the ones i had. i enjoyed listening to the historic episode commentary podcasts. eventually i thought “you know what? that’s a fandom that seems mostly actually OK and full of like-minded people. why not engage with it a bit?”

    i think i was in a bit of an examine-my-past mood in the autumn. it coincided with me going through old photos and files, which resulted in a small haul of fanfiction, fan art, and the photo in my profile picture (a genuine photo from 1993!), which i don’t need to tell you what it is.

    #264313
    pfm
    Participant

    so the idea that men and women have identical interests and aptitudes is untenable.

    You are terrible at Tenable.

    #264314
    Ridley
    Participant

    My initial thought was you must’ve been around longer than that, but then I remembered just how long ago that announcement was.

    Well, it probably is Dave ja vu.

    #264318
    MANI506
    Participant

    I was living and working in Watford when I watched the fan film on the VII DVD. I’m sure I would have signed up earlier but I wasn’t on the internet much back then. When I caught up with all the Dwarf Casts around BTE time I was so happy to hear you all talk about the stuff no one I knew gave a shit about (especially Tikka and Meltdown casts). Then something happened… which made me laugh. Genuinely there have been superb zingers in the extended lockdown casts! Thank you all.

    #264323
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Well, this thread has taken a lovely turn.

    #264324

    I was living and working in Watford

    immediately read this in Patrick Stewart’s voice!

    #264325

    I don’t remember joining, (I remember trying to join and finding out my email address was already associated with an account so I joined, forgot and came back) but apparently it was 8 years and 3 months ago which would be Nov/Dec 2012 which is just after series X aired. Which makes some sense. I had been to the recording of Trojan and to the Prince Charles Cinema Premier. I’d probably lurked here and little, listened to the X podcast output and decided to join.

    I’d been quite prominent over on TOS before, active on the forums and on the old chat rooms as early as 2003 from memory and was very active around BTE. But at some point I made the switch over here because you’re all a far lovelier bunch of people (though there were some great and really cool people on TOS back in the day) and I find it much easier to engage with people as those forums were / at least felt, far more structured.

    Plus, outside of DVD releases, TOS never had much to say really. Seb managed a few cool articles and Andrew did some cool interviews, but being a fan site, you guys can write any piece you want or do any podcast you like at any time. Meaning there is far more content to digest and talk about. And some of the pieces, especially John’s rather geeky look into things like sets and ad break placements, would never get the same sort of coverage in any official capacity and easily rival that of any sort of official output, just because there is the freedom there to do it.

    #264326

    Apparently I only joined in 2015, which surprises me. I’d been a long-time reader of the site and remember reading all the X set reports. I suppose the fact that I lived without home internet for three years might be why I didn’t join sooner.

    I was on the TOS forum a very, very long time ago, around 2000-2002 I think. I never really got that involved though (some forums from the time I stayed on for at least 10 years), but this place has always seemed really friendly and welcoming, and the Dwarfcasts and articles are always a highlight when they come along. Hurray for G&T.

    #264327
    Katydid
    Participant

    Lee Bee seems to be of the flavor of member we temporarily closed new registration of the Discord server over.

    Speaking as a woman, fuck this piece of shit sexist.

    #264328
    si
    Participant

    I used to spend most of my time on the old TORDFC BTLi forums. I spent time in the early TOS forums too, but it was mostly TORDFC. This was between about 2001-2004, when my internet access was limited to a couple of hours a week at the library. Visited BTLi most days until its (pretty much) final days. Looked in last year a few times for nostalgia’s sake, but I see it’s all gone now. Shame, I’d love to look back at those classic Snip of Smeg/ianiansymes arguments again.
    Drifted over this way about 2003. My profile on here says I registered in 2007, but I was commenting on the old site by 2004.
    Anyhoo, that’s my social life discussed.

    #264329
    Katydid
    Participant

    I’m actually not convinced Lee Bee _isn’t_ the person we recently banned from our server for using slurs and harassing me.

    The nerdiness over resolution and picture quality of the Blu-ray release makes me suspicious.

    #264330
    Dave
    Participant

    Shame, I’d love to look back at those classic Snip of Smeg/ianiansymes arguments again.

    Drifted over this way about 2003.

    Thinking about it, I may have found out about this place through talking to Ian on NotBBC back in the early 00s.

    #264331
    Warbodog
    Participant

    I was only following the official website when Ganymede & Titan first launched, and it wasn’t until 2004 or 2005 that, searching for Red Dwarf news one night, I found myself on this website – clearly a Red Dwarf fan site – and at once, to my horror and outrage, what I thought I saw was a preview of the Red Dwarf episode ‘White Hole: Remastered.’ I was already reaching for the telephone to call the Samaritans when something happened that made me laugh, and it was something that certainly would not have happened on the official Red Dwarf website. So I left the telephone where it was and went on reading, and within moments I had got what the website was, and I was laughing all the time.

    Admittedly, I then forgot about it for a few years until I found the DwarfCasts and downloads page in 2008 while working a data entry job where I just listened to podcasts and audiobooks all day. Eventually contributed to the forum when I had something worth posting, and occasionally less so.

    #264333
    Ridley
    Participant

    I’m actually not convinced Lee Bee _isn’t_ the person we recently banned from our server for using slurs and harassing me.

    The nerdiness over resolution and picture quality of the Blu-ray release makes me suspicious.

    It may be more comforting to just assume they’re all the same person anyway, ironically. It’s just unfortunate that when the mask slips it isn’t Craig Charles doing an ill-advised bit for Channel 4.

    Can’t remember how I got here from TOS webboard, I just know this place talks about Red Dwarf once in a while and my attitude to forums has been to treat them like I’ve always been there and let others worry about the post count.

    #264337
    Ben Kirkham
    Participant

    I find it slightly amusing that Lee Bee posted this diatribe in an Unpopular Opinions thread.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t like any of you and I never have. Thanks.

    #264339
    si
    Participant

    Fair enough.

    #264340
    Ridley
    Participant

    Thirty-two.

    #264341
    Strat-Tastic
    Participant

    Lister’s guitar

    #264342
    Strat-Tastic
    Participant

    Crap I submitted too soon

    #264343
    Strat-Tastic
    Participant

    Lister’s guitar playing isn’t terrible in his duet with Hitler

    #264344
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Not only did he name himself Strat-Tastic but he took a photograph of himself with the strat and sent it to be processed in the ship’s lab.

    (Hello!)

    #264346
    Strat-Tastic
    Participant

    Hi! Can you see my shirt too?

    #264352
    clem
    Participant

    I may have found out about this place through talking to Ian on NotBBC back in the early 00s.

    I think I found G&T via NotBBC too. Only started posting regularly in the run up to X but it’s coming up 14 and a half years since I registered. Gulp.

    #264353
    Katydid
    Participant

    I started following G&T around the build-up to Back to Earth. I still vividly remember Headfuck Monday.

    #264356
    MANI506
    Participant

    Patrick Stewart parody is never not funny to me.

    Bravo for thirty two as well!

    #264357
    Hamish
    Participant

    I believe I have said this before, but I got my first G&T account after reading John Hoare’s “Xtended Revisited: Ouroboros” article, where he described something written on the Tongue Tied Wiki my brother and I nominally took control over in the lead up to Back to Earth as “a large pile of smelly poo and wee.”

    While I can hardly be called a regular on here, I feel that quote generally describes most of my continuing output.

    #264377
    Katydid
    Participant

    My unpopular opinion is that we should excommunicate every Red Dwarf fan who spells skutter with a C.

    #264379

    My unpopular opinion is that we should excommunicate every Red Dwarf fan who spells skutter with a C.

    Thank you for the capital R.

    #264380
    Unrumble
    Participant

    My unpopular opinion is that we should excommunicate every Red Dwarf fan who spells skutter with a C.

    Perhaps with a keyring as a parting gift?

    #264381
    si
    Participant

    My unpopular opinion is that we should excommunicate every Red Dwarf fan who spells skutter with a C.

    I somehow misread that as ‘execute’, and, as much as the misspelling annoys me, I did find it a tad excessive.

    #264382
    clem
    Participant

    I somehow misread that as ‘execute’, and, as much as the misspelling annoys me, I did find it a tad excessive.

    Yes, let’s reserve that for the ones who spell Kryten with an O.

    #264383
    Ben Kirkham
    Participant

    Or the people who think Chris Barrie played Arnold Rimmer, when we all know that Arnold Rimmer played Barrie.

    #264384
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    My introduction to G&T was:
    Year and years ago I came across that one April Fool’s article and actually believed it all until it got a little too ridiculous and I thought “oh ffs.”
    Years later I came across that one April Fool’s article and actually believed it all until it got a little too ridiculous and I thought “oh ffs.”
    A couple of years ago I came across that one April Fool’s article and actually believed it all until it got a little too ridiculous and I thought “oh ffs.”

    Yes, it happened three times.

    #264386

    Ben: “Years ago, I was living and working in Scotland, when I came across a news article on Ganymede and Titan. I was reading it and enjoying the informative content, and it reminded me of the articles posted on Red Dwarf: The Official Site. I was reaching for the phone to call their lawyer, when something happened that made me laugh. And that was it, that was when I got what the article was. And I’ve been a member of the forum ever since.”

    #264387
    Jenuall
    Participant

    I’ve always been aware of G&T and have visited this place sporadically over the years to read the various musings and listen to the casts but for whatever reason never bothered to sign up and join the discussion in any way until last year.

    This is probably because I’m an ace hole.

    #264389
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    But are you an ace rimmer?

    #264391
    Jenuall
    Participant

    It’s possible, I mean there have been billions of them judging by the number of those light bee coffins we see in VII.

    Which doesn’t really make sense when you think about it – how have THAT many Ace’s lived and died in the realistic timeframe of things? How have they all managed to train up and pass on the mantle to another Rimmer? None of them just died instantly?

    Like many Dwarf things it’s probably not worth sweating over!

    #264394
    Dave
    Participant

    Which doesn’t really make sense when you think about it – how have THAT many Ace’s lived and died in the realistic timeframe of things?

    Timeframe is irrelevant I think, the wormhole/portal thing seems to lead them all to a very specific point in another time and space and reality altogether. So it’s all the Ace Rimmers who have ever lived, ever, before they get around to recruiting “our” Rimmer.

    We know that there are infinite possible parallel universes stemming from every possible alternate decision that could be made. And while there were definitely a lot of Ace Rimmer caskets, there was less than infinity of them.

    How have they all managed to train up and pass on the mantle to another Rimmer? None of them just died instantly?

    Worth bearing in mind that the Red Dwarf theory of parallel realities set out in Dimension Jump suggests that there are countless realities and some are closer than others. So the Ace Rimmer we meet in Dimension Jump is very likely not the only one to occur naturally and organically (as opposed to being trained up by another Ace).

    So even if the chain is broken for some of the Ace-replacements (replAcements?) then there’s a virtual infinity of other Aces running around doing the same thing in parallel as they hop across different dimensions.

    #264395
    Jenuall
    Participant

    Good points. I forget the logic of the theory of parallel realities as Dimension Jump sets it out. I’m too busy thinking about Bongo covered in taramasalata.

    #264396

    Here’s a thought. Of all the Rimmer’s that are really capable of being Ace likely grew up to naturally become Ace, where as all the ones that had a shittier upbringing and didn’t have the right breaks etc, that aren’t capable of becoming Ace, (regardless of whether they’re like our Rimmer or not) wouldn’t be Ace … but would be the only ones available as replAcements.

    #264397

    Timeframe is irrelevant I think, the wormhole/portal thing seems to lead them all to a very specific point in another time and space and reality altogether.

    Surely every coffin would arrive at the same time, then? As it is, there are already millions there, which would suggest there is a timeframe involved.

    #264398
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Dimension Jump’s ever-popular closing text suggests that Our Rimmer is an outlier and they usually turn out better.

    #264399
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I don’t even remember Dimension Jump ending with text. Does it? It ends with Hammond Organ music, I thought.

    #264404
    Dave
    Participant

    I don’t even remember Dimension Jump ending with text. Does it? It ends with Hammond Organ music, I thought.

    The text is during the Top Gun bit when Ace buggers off. Just before the Hammond organ music.

    #264405
    Dave
    Participant

    replAcements

    It’s catching on!

    #264406
    Dave
    Participant

    Surely every coffin would arrive at the same time, then? As it is, there are already millions there, which would suggest there is a timeframe involved.

    Maybe they’re all set to arrive a few seconds after each other so there isn’t a bottleneck.

    #264407

    Even if it is a set point in space doesn’t mean they all have to arrive at the same time. They can arrive relative to the time the Ace that died died, so any point in the 3million years.

    During the Stoke Dwarfcast it’s commented on that perhaps Lister fills Kryten and Cat in on Ace’s plan and they actually know that it isn’t Rimmer that died because otherwise the events of the entire day would raise some eyebrows from them and they don’t question it at all.

    It has now just occurred to me, the whole scene with the coffins, they’d have to know what was going on otherwise they’d wonder why the fuck they were sending Rimmer off to orbit some planet with a load of other little yellow with blinking red light capsules. They don’t once question why Starbug is fucking off across the galaxy, through wormholes, chasing to little yellow box to find a really low resolution planet?

    #264408
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Fuck me, Dimension Jump has three bad endings? That’s an entire Dave series’ worth!

    #264409
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    RE: The time thing regarding Ace, obviously in Dimension Jump the “original” Ace not only travels between dimensions, but also 3,000,000 years into the future, to meet up with our cast. So not every dimension is at the same “time”.

    #264411
    Rudolph
    Participant

    If they ever bring Kochanski back, I’d hope they just ditch the whole will they/won’t they thing they had going in VII and VIII. Kochanski having such contempt for Lister just made him look a little pathetic as all indications we’d seen up to that point was that it would work out alright for them. It’s one aspect I like about Last Human, that they settled into Lister and Kochanski being in love without any tedious “urgh, what did I ever see in him?” nonsense.

    #264414
    pfm
    Participant

    If they ever bring Kochanski back, I’d hope they just ditch the whole will they/won’t they thing they had going in VII and VIII. Kochanski having such contempt for Lister just made him look a little pathetic as all indications we’d seen up to that point was that it would work out alright for them. It’s one aspect I like about Last Human, that they settled into Lister and Kochanski being in love without any tedious “urgh, what did I ever see in him?” nonsense.

    Taking them in that direction, within the realms of episodic sitcom, wouldn’t have been the easiest thing to pull off; not at that time, at least. With specials being the flavour of the moment, a more complex Lister/Kochanski (or ‘Krave’, if you like) would most definitely be possible, probable, inevitable, all of those. This does not necessarily involve making them a couple. However, there’s certain tantalising threads, from Back To Earth, left hanging; and if there’s a top 3 of stories, that people would want to see ‘resolved’, before Dwarf reaches its natural end, Krave certainly makes that list.

    #264417

    RE: The time thing regarding Ace, obviously in Dimension Jump the “original” Ace not only travels between dimensions, but also 3,000,000 years into the future, to meet up with our cast. So not every dimension is at the same “time”.

    The explanation in Backwards, that Rimmer is always pulled towards whichever dimension he’s in’s version of himself, is nonsense but works well enough as an explanation.

    #264418
    Dave
    Participant

    Lister/Kochanski (or ‘Krave’, if you like)

    Kolchister.

    #264420
    pfm
    Participant

    Lister/Kochanski (or ‘Krave’, if you like)

    Kolchister.

    Gotta love the castle there, and that crazy water tower jobby.

    #264422
    Unrumble
    Participant

    Good points. I forget the logic of the theory of parallel realities as Dimension Jump sets it out. I’m too busy thinking about Bongo covered in taramasalata.

    Would it be easier to remember if it was… hummus?

    #264424

    Depends whether it’s Lister pronouncing it as hyou-muss or not.

    #264432
    Jenuall
    Participant

    He can’t help it, he went to art college!

    #265115
    Katydid
    Participant

    Hot take: while it was very funny on first viewing, the first half of Skipper really doesn’t work on repeat viewing. Once you know what’s going to happen there’s very little humor in the time jumps, and there’s not enough else going on to really hold interest. But the second half with the dimension skipping is so fucking strong (I don’t think I’ve ever laughed harder at RD than the first time I saw Mr. Rat) that I tend to remember the episode as a whole of being better than it actually is, considering I find like 45% of it kind of boring on repeat viewing.

    The only other episodes I can think of that I feel similarly about are Emohawk (good first half, questionable second half), and Parallel Universe (I really like basically everything before the parallel universe part and then it gets a bit lame and overly broad).

    #265116

    Skipper is another of those ones that feels like two distinct episode ideas pushed into one.

    Rimmer skipping through dimensions is easily 20mins of episode book ended by 5mins to open and close it.

    And the whole “do the opposite of what you say” could easily be fleshed out into a full episode of its own, with its own consequences and resolution.

    It sort of feels as if Doug couldn’t work that first half into a full episode so you’d it as a spring board into the skipping idea he had, but ended up spending a lot more time on that first concept eating into the seconds.

    #265117
    Dave
    Participant

    I actually like both halves of Skipper – I rewatched it recently and found all the opposites stuff in the first half as strong as ever, with a really classic Red Dwarf feel to it.

    It does suddenly veer into a very different-feeling story with the dimension-skipping, but I’m not sure that stuff could have supported a full episode without something more. Even if you had additional funny ideas for alternate scenarios, it would feel like a sketch show rather than the snappier montage of Skipper’s back half.

    I also think that there is at least some thematic link between the opposites stuff of the first half and the final dimension visited in Skipper where the ship’s pecking order is entirely inverted (with Lister at the top and Rimmer second). It also makes the point that while Rimmer might think he wants the opposite of what he has in his own dimension, his main source of happiness is feeling superior to Lister and that isn’t something he can bear giving up. So while he is quick to make the decision to leave, it’s not what he really wants and ultimately he ends the episode with the opposite outcome.

    #265118
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Emohawk (good first half, questionable second half)

    Emohawk’s dragged down by the opening scenes too, which turn Legion’s cockpit banter into a diminishing formula almost beat for beat. Then the Dibbley stuff feels like the first strike of illogical nonsense that picked up again and ran through the first three episodes of series VII, by which point I don’t care about the series any more. But Emohawk has so much bloody nostalgia around it that I still feel let down.

    Parallel Universe (I really like basically everything before the parallel universe part and then it gets a bit lame and overly broad).

    Always been my least favourite episode of Grant Naylor RD. Tying up Future Echoes at the end is very nice though. Shame it’s accompanied by baby Skutters on a string.

    #265122

    The second half of Skipper is let down for me by stuff like Everybody’s Alive Arnold and the VIII characterisation of Hollister. It’s very funny, but it also feels like Doug is intentionally going for “hey, remember this!” rather than coming up with a totally new idea. Mr. Rat is obviously an all-time Red Dwarf highlight, and the quick jumps that have the elephant sound, Blue Dwarf and then the original model are superb.

    I’m yet to not be tickled by the jump cuts, especially the making and eating of Lister’s breakfast.

    #265124
    Dave
    Participant

    Yeah, the breakfast bit is a high point. I also like Kryten and Rimmer’s conversation.

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