Dax101

[Dax101]

Would you prefer he set it after all Dougs work and have the same ending? I dunno i think that would be seen even more so as a dig at Doug. If Rob really wanted to be spiteful im sure be could have. Claiming that everything since 6 was just a fainted memory and then they all turn to gloop.

Rob had never watched Dougs material. And to him, they aint his work so why continue? We were never likely to get a alternative timeline of events in continuation of 6 from Robs perspective. So Rob going a silly ending skit was him having a laugh. This wasnt the equivalent of one parent tripping their child up during a sports game to spite all the training the other parent did. This was never meant to he seen as canon.

[Dax101]

If the whole thing aint funny because of a line thats interpreted as a dig at doug then its probably not being judged fairly. 

I think if Rob wanted to take a dig at Doug he could have done better. But considering it ends with them being turned into a gloop i aint sure this was ever meant to he Rob stating his own canon as much as it is Rob just having a bit of fun.

I compare it to Red Christmas because id rather not believe Doug would ever make an episode where Santa visits Red Dwarf. I give him the benefit of the doubt because its to zany. Same with Into the Gloop which was a project for fans to voice the roles for a little skit. This wasnt a real continuation of Series 6.

[Dax101]

To judge Robs work by Into the Gloop is about the same as judging Dougs work with Red Christmas. Neither were written to be taken seriously and were part of novalty projects.

Since Rob has been away for a long time i am expecting his writing for Red Dwarf to be a bit different, aswell as having a Marshall co-writing it. So the result will be interesting. 

[Dax101]

I’m expecting something similar to Star Trek 09. Where it’s like a timeline-break off reboot with some connection to the future. Since the synopsis mentions a message from the future.

In terms of the alternate reality thing. Well its no different from the novels.They are also a separate continuity.

[Dax101]

I thought “Unless the chick with the really calm voice starts talking it ain’t serious” from Skipper from pretty damn obvious. As well as “May I suggest, we don’t stay here and we don’t discuss”

Both practically told the audience what joke was about to happen.

[Dax101]

I imagined he would have if he had been asked. But why would you when you can just use the nostalgic ones.

[Dax101]

I remember that being speculated at the time to be the case. But its possible Doug just went for someone else because they were cheaper. Making the most out of the budget.

[Dax101]

The bunkroom in BITR looks more silver and less grey.

[Dax101]

Wasn’t there something where Doug didn’t use a lot of Howard’s music for XI and XII.

[Dax101]

I don’t mind the nostalgia for Skipper. I feel it has a purpose for that episode, at least. It often feels a little forced at other times

[Dax101]

Can of Worms can be thrown out for its dumb assery on the Cat

[Dax101]

Yeah, he says they were not meant to be a replacement, but i ain’t sure if that was the thought process at the time. Remember, things change. Doug would say today that he always planned to make a new series after Series 8, when in an interview in 2002 he claimed he wanted to move away from the show and concentrate on movies. having time to reflect helps change someone’s perspective. The remastered wasn’t loved by fans, and I wonder if, at the time they remastered the shows, did they think the fans would love the remastered? or did they always know it might not go down well with them? If they didn’t know that, why did they make such an ambitious change to them as if they really were fixing them?

Plus, for a few years, they stopped showing the original versions, and anytime footage was used in another show, it was always the remastered stuff.

I kinda feel bad for the people in other countries who got the remastered 1,2 and 3 and the original 4,5,6,7 because there is a really weird inconsistency there for them now. They set out to fix it for other countries, and they left it weirdly messy.

[Dax101]

Wasn’t it said they were aiming for series 5 lighting for Series XI and XII. I remember someone complimenting them on that and they said it was intentional

[Dax101]

Isn’t he still writing his 2nd Sin Bin Island novel?

[Dax101]

Id imagine the likely scenario is more along the lines of, ah Robert will get through it for the team.

After all, whats the point doing it if you are just going to half ass it. If creatively you are unable to fully commit then why bother?

[Dax101]

If I remember right in the past Doug described the stage show as a brand new story that integrates the cast recreating moments from the shows. Which sounded a bit meta. Which might mean this is strictly more a stage show concept than anything that could be adapted into a book.

[Dax101]

The last thing Doug said about the stage play was:

”Discussions have taken place about doing a stage show at the O2 [in London] – probably about 10-12 shows,” he said. Naylor continued: “But they want it to coincide with our 40th anniversary, which is in 2028. So I’m not saying it can’t be done before then, but there’s very much interest for us to do that.”

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/2121212/bbc-red-dwarf-stage-show-2028

[Dax101]

He found out you guys cheated on him with Rob, didn’t he?

[Dax101]

To be fair that might not be a Doug Naylor Joke. it was co-written by Paul Alexander. And i assume unlike with Rob Grant, when something was co-written for 7 and 8, it was just written by the co-writer and then Doug made alterations or changes if needed. 

[Dax101]

Maybe they felt he was too deadpan and subtle. Gotta get more energy in there.

[Dax101]

Never understood the logic of needing to explain what happened to the polymorph. The original ending is far more fun.

[Dax101]

There are aspects of the remastered that i hate to admit is a little superior. Like Rimmer transforming into the polymorph looks cleaner and there are just a few better edits overall.

BUT the remaster liked to fix certain things while at the same time creating really odd changes that don’t really work. I mean in Queeg why place the static effect and sound effect over chris’s lines? its very irritating to watch.

[Dax101]

The 2 factors that seem to be affecting the bringing back of once-popular shows these days are Money and the desperate need for a younger generation to want to watch them, because, I guess, time has declined the previous.

[Dax101]

I have always found the BTE Bunkroom a little dull and flat-looking. I think i prefer the red bunkroom from X onwards

[Dax101]

It must be incredibly confusing for people to watch the first 7 series with the original model design which then switches to the extended series 8 CGI ship, to then go back to a more similar to the original design for BTE onwards. While in other countries they only have the first 3 remastered series with the extended CGI ship, which then shrinks to the original model for Series 4-5, extended CGI model for 8 and then back to similar original design.

[Dax101]

Doug’s is just a little more focused on social commentary.

Probably an age thing.

[Dax101]

I mean its a joke you would get on futurama. It’s a silly retro exaggeration of future technology. 

[Dax101]

Its a futurama style joke. Which the Dave era does a fair amount of. The floppy disc joke isn’t one i could imagine in the first 7 series. Maybe not even 8.

[Dax101]

I can’t imagine, from a technical behind-the-scenes standpoint, if that would be possible to do consistently.

[Dax101]

No one has time for effort.

[Dax101]

I feel like if they were going to release the comic strips from the Smegazine into a book it would have been in the late 90s. Since it never happened id say the chances of anything official is probably extremely unlikely

[Dax101]

I imagine in the Dave era the idea of Meltdown would indeed be “the characters visit a theme park”. They get teleported there with the Matterpaddle, and it’s an actual theme park with rides and food stands that are all still running as normal. So we can get some jokes about how expensive theme park food is and how long the lines take for Rides even when its just the 4 of them. With Kryten explaining it’s all part of the immersio till they just give up an walk away. And then the mascots start to get politically charged with each other, and the last 10 minutes Rimmer encourages a war so he can lead it. And Lister, Cat and Kryten just trying to stop the war by interacting with the other side.

That seems fairly Dave-era average plot.

In terms of the Meltdown we got, its not really tropey

[Dax101]

Looking at the motivations. Rimmer wants to become machine president to make Lister’s life hell. Traditional Rimmer/Lister feud, I suppose. Kryten has a backbone for this episode and goes against Rimmer instead of usually doing whatever Rimmer wants. Lister is helping Kryten because he doesn’t want to lose his TV privileges, and Cat is helping Rimmer because he doesn’t want Rimmer to tell Kryten and Lister he needs glasses.

And then you get a lot of tropey Election stuff… but in space.

Its not as cringe as Timewave, but i don’t feel it’s all that much miles ahead in quality.

[Dax101]

Mechocracy isn’t a good episode of Red Dwarf. It doesn’t feel like an episode of Red Dwarf. It feels more like something you would get in an American sitcom. That kinda pointless petty conflict that they are doing to themselves that really doesn’t matter. Is it fun? Personally, I don’t think so. Its got that Doug Naylor logic that bothers me a lot where characters will do stuff that doesn’t make sense or doesn’t fit their character just in order to make the plot work. 

[Dax101]

I guess we can’t have nice things.

[Dax101]

Like at one point Lee says “You kill me!” and he responds with “You… want me to kill you?” as if he’s a robot who has never encountered a metaphor before. It’s cool if he wants to ham it up for fun or because his current situation has made him emotionally volatile, but he should at least retain his general intelligence and experience.

I think they were looking at it like the Master was well-spoken, and he had even corrected Grace on her grammar earlier, so modern wording would go over his head.

Although modern Who has such Zany Masters that they make Roberts look fairly tame. He got the full load of hate in 1996 for being different, but man, I can’t imagine what it would have been like with Simms version.

[Dax101]

I actually think Chris has always been a good actor. Atlhough i get the feeling he has stayed away from non-comedic roles because he doesn’t believe he is that good of an actor. But I’m gonna say he played Rimmer a little more subtly in the first 7 series than he did in Series 8 onwards. When he needed to be funny, he was funny, and when he needed to play it straight, he played it straight. While with Series 8 he feels like he is mugging for the camera at times. its kinda a more exaggerated version of Series 1 Rimmer. 

I remember reading Chris Auditioned for Hollyoaks and left the audition feeling it really wasn’t for him.

[Dax101]

He is still playing series 8 Holister, so that’s about accurate.

The rules for the Skipper device seem also a little different because Rimmer seems to be becoming his alternative selves when he skips. presumbaly because its never suggested there is an alternative Rimmer around.

[Dax101]

It’s weird because when i first watched the episode as a kid, it did not seem at all strange to me that Ace was this space hero. But when I got older and really thought about it, that’s just not who Ace Rimmer was in series 4. It’s almost a caricature of all the things he was based on to think he is now this guy who’s travelling universes and saving people. Kinda strange.

I’m not a huge fan of stoke me a clipper. It dissects the character abit to much.

[Dax101]

For me, the bleakness of the first series is part of why it ranks slightly lower for me. I know a lot of people love that, and I do get it, but the antagonism between Lister and Rimmer, and Cat barely even being part of the plot, it’s so fucking cold that it just lies slightly outside what I love Red Dwarf for. I find the characters of Confidence and Paranoia give that episode a weirdly queasy feeling that makes it my least favourite of the first series, even if it’s definitely very creative with a lot of great gags.

Well in their mind at the time this was Steptoe and Son in space. Rimmer and Lister were Steptoe and son. The whole idea was likely that Rimmer and Lister would carry this sitcom, with the Cat and Holly appearing here and there. 

[Dax101]

Series 1 has some growing pains. Which is fair as they were still figuring out the show.

[Dax101]

I think for Holly, you need to make room for him/her to get the best out of the character. White Hole gives Holly a purpose. The Promise Land gives Holly a purpose. But it also involves the character going away for a portion of the episode, leaving the 4 guys dealing with what’s going on.

So the best you can do with Holly is to always have something like that. Because if you don’t, he/she just pops up to say something and then goes away. Which is maybe 3 times an episode

With Series 2, Holly felt a little more a character that was part of the conversations. But as time went on that become less and less. 

[Dax101]

Probably White Hole.

[Dax101]

I get the feeling they tried to do that with the legs in the early days but for whatever reason they didn’t put it on screen. 

Personally i think it loses a lot of personallity with the legs going back. its obviously trying to look like a fly but still.

[Dax101]

I suppose you would have to look at Series 3 and 4 and figure out where would Norman appear in that series. Because chances are those stories were not written just because Norman wasn’t there. They were written because they were the stories they wanted to tell. Once Kryten joined, he got focused on quite quickly with The Last Day, Camille and DNA. And he wasn’t an original cast member.
You would sorta have to assume there would be major changes to how Rob and Doug told these stories if Norman was still there. But would there be?

[Dax101]

The knight escaping VR felt like an assumption that VR was basically like the Holodeck from Star Trek

[Dax101]

 I think Norman would probably have fought harder for material and Rob and Doug would probably have found a little more for him to do because they found it easier to write for his version of the character. 

Considering how he was written for Series 8, i ain’t sure about that. In the end its going to come down to their ambition to write bold episodes like say Back to Reality vs what material they can give Norman in episodes like that. Which would still be an issue.

The way he was written in Series 8 felt like the way you would expect the writers to desperately be looking for material for him. For example how much did Norman appear in Cassandra?

[Dax101]

I don’t like to compete them personally. I like Norman, and while Hattie got a little less to do overall, I think she still added something to the show that i appreciate.

Its an interesting thought to wonder what the show would have been like had Norman not left, because Rob and Doug clearly wanted to turn the show into something more adventurous and just because it was Norman, probably wouldn’t have changed much in regards to telling stories that struggled to really have a purpose for Holly. Does make you wonder if Norman would have ended up leaving anyway, out of pure spite for the lack of material.

[Dax101]

I honestly believe Rob and Doug (and maybe even the others) regret hiring her, they are just too polite to ever say it.

Thats probably not true. After all the only reason they hired Hattie is because Norman practically got himself fired. So it was either no Holly for Series 3 onwards or a recast, and they chose a recast. Which does make sense, really. Holly was part of the show, and so the thought of not having the character probably felt strange. So there is nothing to regret really. It’s just unfortunate that as time went on they were moving too far away from what Holly could have a part in. And you can even still see it with Norman in Series 8 and TPL. You really have to make time for Holly because the character is easily forgotten about otherwise.

In terms of which Holly that Doug prefers, yeah i think he prefers Norman. I think instead of bringing back Hattie, he left the role open as a sign of good faith for Norman, as Norman got annoyed that he wasn’t in Back to Earth. Which seems to suggest Doug didn’t know where Holly fit into that story, which is why he wasn’t in Back to Earth. Which again goes back to the issue with Holly in general.

[Dax101]

I don’t think Doug is finished with Red Dwarf yet. It’s going to come down to who’s willing to put the money in, though. Novels are just quicker and easier to produce. 

People tend to underestimate how much Doug wants to keep making Red Dwarf content. To the point he has come up with some weird ideas. Like he mentioned having an idea for a meta conspiracy story he was putting together with the Red Dwarf cast playing themselves, and i assume thats not happening either now. But you never really know what’s boiling over.

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