Dax101

[Dax101]

Well he was appointed head of comedy in 2021 and its now 2026. So if there was any pitching going on it would have been done by now

[Dax101]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the reception to Back to Earth made him a little more avoidant of using old ideas, as in the BTE commentary, he sounded a little bothered that people were saying he ran out of ideas because he used the suicide squid idea again. Aka the joy squid.

[Dax101]

Considering how Doug writes guest stars now. It might be best not to get a sequel to Holoship as they were not written particularly comedic. We would be more likely to get an idea that felt very similar to Holoship.

The premise is Rimmer gets stuck on planet populated entirely by himself, but we don’t actually get to see that really. The first half is him getting stranded, the second half is the crew netting some Rimmer clones, getting thrown in jail and then teleporting. 

When you think its a planet of basically clones of one man who basically evolve as a society in the same way as human history has. There is something really unique and cool about that. If they had told that story in the novels it would have been very interesting. But at the same time, to me it might be the first time i felt Rob and Doug got a bit too ambitious and slightly overstepped the mark. They don’t go overboard in the same way i feel Doug has done with the Dave Era, as they still used their time wisely in Rimmerworld. Which is better than trying to do too much and ending up with a mess.

[Dax101]

While i think Series 6 got a bit formulaic in areas, i don’t really see it as running out of steam as much as Rob and Doug leaning heavily into a particular direction they felt was the strongest. Which ended up becoming formulaic.

But then, when that series also won and Emmy and comedy award, its hard to say there was any loss of steam. 

Based on recent information and knowing certain episodes like Out of Time were still being written while shooting, it does seem like after the US Pilot they were slightly held back by something. Maybe their own success that they didnt know what to do with or where to go with it. And so the writing was a little more rushed for Series 6. And Doug said in that interview recently that they were being sued by penguin for not writing the 3rd book in the time they were meant too.

[Dax101]

Peter: Part 2
Dear David
Kryten TV 

[Dax101]

 I think it’s more of a problem when Doug is borrowing from himself. For example, in ‘Dear Dave’ where the punchline is “You’ve not listened to a word I’ve said,” which is almost identical to a line in ‘Nanarchy’. When the show is borrowing from Series VII, you know it must be in trouble. :)

Its like Hollister standing behind Rimmer while he rambles about him in Peter: Part 2, which Doug did again in Back to Earth: Part One with Katerina. Not a great joke worth repeating IMO.

[Dax101]

Personally, i struggle to see how its bubble worthy. The Cat, again, is really dumb and also has shades of that whininess he had in Can of Worms and Give and Take. And the villain’s plan makes no sense. He creates a scheme to steal Starbug but can’t because of a secret boot-up sequence he doesn’t know. So either to cover his ass or kill the crew… its its a little up in the air, he put them in life-threatening situations in which they probably shouldn’t survive, but just in case, he attempts to frame Hitler and Co for it. As well as faking his own death before ruining it by showing up to reveal he is alive… When you realise the character didn’t need to do any of this to achieve his goal, it makes an episode of Scooby Doo look super clever.

I also think Hitler might be a little to camp for my taste. I have no issue with Camp but it starts to feel played up. Now i like the payoff joke about why he is acting that way at the end: “Did you wonder why he seemed nothing like hitler?” i like that payoff, but I’m not sure the amount of camp was worth getting to that point.

So all that stuff put together. I don’t feel like these elements fit the bubble at all.

[Dax101]

I dont feel XI and XII are that different to X. They look better and Doug injected more energy into them. Like he was worried people would get bored if things were not moving, shifting and joking. But outside of that, they are pretty similar.

[Dax101]

I like Krysis up untill they meet universe. Which they then do a Morgan Freeman impression because they are winking to him having played god previously, while also trying to avoid suggesting the universe is infact god. Its a big concept that i imagine was the reason why Doug did it. Big concept = cool!. But i can feel the weight of Don’t think about it too hard otherwise, there will be a lot of questions.

As for Chris Barries acting… it depends, when Chris pulls back on his performance, he does a pretty good job, but when he gets a scene thats focused on him playing up to the audience, he gets a little exaggerated. Same with Danny tbh

[Dax101]

I think Lemons is the better episode of Series 10 and that’s because it doesn’t have too much going on so the story and jokes feels like it’s playing out more organically.

With Cured. Outside of the villains plan making no sense and seeming ultimately pointless. The Cat and his kiddy jumping back and forth because from either helping the villain or the dwarfers because they have a surprise for him bugged the hell out of me.

[Dax101]

The Dave era feels familiar because it goes back to structure of the earlier series when it was the 4 guys on red dwarf, along with the studio audience and some feel good nostalgic beats here and there. So I do tend to wonder how much of the back to form and how much of that is an nostalgic illusion from going back to what was loved?

Im not saying the 2nd was is the case, but i do tend to wonder sometimes.

For me Series 10 is jammed full of plot ideas and sometimes logic thats just too silly or convoluted. And the comedy ranges from to annoyingly predictable or to silly. For me that takes away any return to form and im often surprised when people think its a return to form. But i guess everyone looks at things differently.

[Dax101]

Or just remove Timewave and just call it Spit on Her Wrist.

[Dax101]

Well they didn’t need to find Red Dwarf, they could just have found Holly. He has no memory of what happened to red dwarf until the last episode.

[Dax101]

 He could have had more to do in VIII if it wasn’t for the fact there were about 16 other characters all fighting for screen time. But he is reduced unfortunately to just being a gag machine once an episode.

I don’t know if the amount of characters is a good excuse for it really. The setting with holly worked best when he could appear on a monitor. But when they kept using the Holly watch i think it reduced the amount of times he could appear as you had to keep cutting away to the watch. But at the same time, maybe he could have been mixed into the bunkroom scenes with Lister and Rimmer like he would in the early days? Rather than just appear for a sketch about turning into a dog and then being turned off. So I’d say it had more to do with how he was used rather than not having the time

That cheeky smirk is pure 1988 Holly. 

He did that in Series 8 also. But then i think Norman appears more smirky than deadpan in series 8. 

[Dax101]

So Grant Naylor Productions is a sole Naylor family production now. 

[Dax101]

Oddly i think Norman is more Holly after they reboot him up to default settings, then when they restore his memories and whatever later on. And i think that’s because Series 1 and 2 Holly, even though senile, also felt more grounded and had more personality rather than just quirks. He felt like a character who had opinions and would ask questions. But the moment they restore his memories in TPM, he sorta falls back into that series 8 clueless-about-everything character. Now that might be because he didn’t get a lot to do after that. But it still felt that way to me. 

Same with his scene in Skipper actually, when he is playing pre-radiation leak Holly. He seems to have been written better that time also

[Dax101]

I suspect the issue is that they often forgot Holly existed. If they needed something explained then Kryten could do that. Hollys role at least for Hattie was about ship related stuff but how often was that a thing going forward?

Doug said Norman hated doing the explaining stuff and just wanted to do jokes. Which really we got that in Series 8. 

I imagine Holly often ended up written in later rather than naturally.

[Dax101]

Zuzp

[Dax101]

Ah probably Timewave.

[Dax101]

I always got the feeling that the Cliffhanger was to say either Rimmer saved the day or their future selves killed them before he could save the day. Which either way would lead to the same result. But maybe Rob and Doug were not really thinking about it that way at the time. Maybe they were to focused on Rimmer’s side of it to really think about would happen if their future selves destroyed the ship with the time drive on it.

Rimmer clearly does shoot the time drive at the same time you do see Starbug get blown up. But because we see Rimmer shoot first, you do kinda assume he got there before they got destroyed.

Its series 7 that removes the shot of Rimmer shooting it, and we just have him stop about to shoot, and then the ship is destroyed.

[Dax101]

But why would you want to undercut Rimmers heroics? This was Rimmers rare moment of bravery and being a hero. This was a big deal for Rimmer to do something brave.  I don’t think you needed to undo it by giving Rimmer a reminder that he can’t catch a break. That feels more of a Dave era type of thing. While the show at that time didn’t feel the need to laugh at Rimmers constant failure.

[Dax101]

To he fair they filmed XI and XII at the same time and they had XII sitting on a shelf for a full year. I suspect they had plenty of time for post production with that one. So the choice with music likely had nothing to do with rushing.

[Dax101]

Its interesting because in the series 7 flashback they add a shot of their future selves firing and blowing them up. They cut the shot of Rimmer shooting at the timedrive. So for whatever reason i guess Doug preferred the idea of the full circle event of them being killed by themselves and resetting things.

[Dax101]

Since it was 3 years after and they had pretty much changed everything like the sets, the costumes and make up. They likely knew they couldn’t just film a scene set directly after. The starbug set for example in Series 7 looks the same, but there are noticeable differences. Krytens make up also isn’t the same.

In the end they just used the same logic but through dialogue.

[Dax101]

Looking back. The cliffhanger does feel a little pointless. Rob and Doug did it for a hype factor. To get people talking. But when you realise how quickly it was resolved in Series 7. it almost seems like series 6 resolved itself but just didnt want to mention it.

But was there really anyway you could make that cliffhanger really carry any weight going forward?

[Dax101]

While Rob, Ed and Paul celebrated their past involvement, i always assumed Doug preferred to look at the future with the show. Since Doug was writing, directing and producing the show, and his own Son is also producing the show, it almost becomes a new, very different era because of that. Doug spent more time with the cast who he was still working with rather than other creatives who worked on the show in the past. So Ed Bye really wasn’t needed. But i doubt Ed has any issue with Doug, though

[Dax101]

Did it sell on ebay?

[Dax101]

Might be the pressure of success. Maybe Rob as a person just carried more weight in desiring to progress.

With Series 7 and 8, Doug was really only making the show to get the episode numbers up so they could get funding for a movie. In the fanclub magazine he pretty much said he was done with the show and just wanted to do movies. But I suspect once it become clear the movie was not likely to happen, Doug started to see the show in a more valuable creative way. I put it down to Doug getting unmade movie blue balls :p

[Dax101]

It is indeed an interesting interview.
Obviously Rob and Doug had their issues over the years, but I was a little surprised that this is probably the most negative that I have heard him be about Rob and the breakup.

I think that’s because Doug has always said to ask Rob when he was asked about it, but now you can’t just go ask Rob, so Doug is the only person who can reflect on that period.
Maybe he is a bit frustrated that he will likely never know what was going on with Rob at the time.

[Dax101]

It is a little frustrating to hear one of the stand out parts in The Promise Land wouldn’t have been in the script at all if someone didn’t suggest it to Doug. The guy has been making Red Dwarf since 1988 and the idea of that line almost seemed risky to him.

[Dax101]

Co-written. Same thing.

[Dax101]

Well if the crew were still around Lister probably wouldn’t be qualified to fly a starbug. But when you don’t have a crew around, yeah Lister will likely take a blue midget or starbug on a ride just because why not? He will get hang of the controls and anything they need in his own way. Whether  with help from holly or whatever. Lister isn’t interested in progression, but would be more interested in just curing boredom.

[Dax101]

I always got the impression that in series 1 and 2 they had to use the machines to get food because there was a more an attempt to make 1 and 2 futuristic and technology-based, so they were not able to get food without the machines working. The machines being the only way they could get food.  Series 3 onwards the crew seemed to be a little more hands on with the workings of the ship. In polymorph Lister is cooking his own food. And White Hole doesn’t suggest they can’t get food, but more their way to produce quality food without technology is tough due to dependency on it

As for travelling around in Starbug or Blue Midget, you don’t need to be the best of the best to know how to drive. I imagine there are things you can go through the motions on without being an expert. And as the show goes on you probably could accept they would at least learn tasks in a basic sense.

[Dax101]

I feel like reading the differences people bring up from V and VI, I don’t know if I’d separate the series to that degree. After all, Series 1 and Series 2 also have many differences, but you could easily feel like they are more similar to eachother than Series 3. And that’s where I stand with Series V and VI. while they have differences and are balanced a little differently, they ultimately aim at the same type of tone. You could probably put The Inquisitor in Series 6 and you wouldn’t feel it was strange at all. I certainly wouldn’t say V and VII were similar though.

Same way 3 and 4 could be said to be similar even with the differences.

[Dax101]

Id say VI is more similar to V though then neither are to VII. VII feels way more like a step in a different tone than what VI does. VII feels like a sci-fi drama but with comedy. its the series where Lister could lose his arm and have an episode centered around that struggle. V and VI i don’t feel would attempt that.

Id say VI is just the gritty space adventure elements of V but stripped of the more IV style story telling which is all but gone by VI.

[Dax101]

Series 5 is darker and grittier in sci-fi, but wouldn’t say it was a drama. I remember reading there was an increase in viewership for Series 5, as well as getting the call to produce a US version. So if anything i think Series 6 was just an extension of what they felt was successful for 5.

While Series 7 feels like drama. It has that feel. Its a series thats not afraid to stop and have more slower dramatic moments. Which i put down to being a tester for how you would make a movie and not a sitcom.

[Dax101]

Yeah, but then you wouldn’t have the ex-gf dynamic to work with, and remember, this was all for the movie. That plot with Kochanski was likely going to be explored in a rebooted way, with presumably the same dynamic coming out of it. I imagine it just seemed like the most natural way to go to make it Kochanski and really test those waters.

I don’t think they tried to get Clare Grogan back. Probably felt Clare worked best in small doses and not so much a regular role.

Doug also added Kochanski to his novel, Last Human.

[Dax101]

 Is there anything in the record that VI is a direct influence from going to the US? 

Well the “its better to live one hour as a tiger” line in series 6 was from the 2nd US pilot that Rob and Doug put together. Its all speculative but i imagine whatever they thought the US pilot would become was still on their minds as they were likely just as invested at that time. So if none of that was carried over onto series 6 it would be more surprising.

But I don’t think there’s any suggestion Doug didn’t want to write them at all.

The Series 8 script book suggests he wasn’t that interested in continuing the show, but then someone told him that if they got to around 50 episodes they would have enough to potentially get a movie made. And looking at Series 7 and 8… you can kinda see Doug was always eyeing the movie. People think Kochanski was a replacement for Rimmer, but according to Doug, no, she was added because they needed a female main character to be part of the cast to help get a movie made.
Thats not to say he didn’t want to write them. But i dunno, Doug made some interesting decisions around that time with Series 7,8 and remastered

[Dax101]

Well Series VIII was indeed a reaction to Series VII, but thats more because fans seemed less impressed with how Series VII turned out.
Series VI isn’t in that respect an attempt to fix anything from Series 5. They had gone to america to do the US pilot in between V and VI, so they may have been influenced by that experience.

[Dax101]

I do think there is more pathos in the BBC era. Series 2 and 4 had a fair amount. Series 4 is almost a moral of the week show. Then there is Holoship, Back to reality. I think the reason why it stands out so much when its done in the Dave era is because its done very little in the Dave era. Rimmer for example is often used as that character who is snooty and always gets whats coming to him at the end for it. When thats the chosen path for comedy, it doesnt really create much room for pathos.

[Dax101]

Not sure about that.

[Dax101]

I think for me the pathos works best when it feels earned. BTE has some moments, but they kinda feel like what they are, added on after the script was complete. So a lot of the connections to make it impactful feel a little loose.

Wasn’t it said that Andrew Ellard came up with the Kochaski scene at the end?

[Dax101]

While i think the moonlight stuff is a pretty decent bit of pathos for the Promise Land, i do think people have overrated it somewhat as if Red Dwarf hasn’t had pathos untill now. Which it could be argued its just that there isn’t a lot of it in the Dave Era, while there was a few counts of it in the BBC era. Including some Doug episodes in series 7.

In terms of whether Doug can do it… I think he can, i just don’t often think its his main aim in writing these days. His mind aim is the big ideas and the comedy. for example look at Krysis, at the end Kryten comes to this conclusion that is meant to bring him out of his slump and if i remember right its just “love” or something to that degree. And i don’t quite get how that connects to Krytens emotional state in order to snap him out of his “Krysis”. It feels like Doug pulled a generic bit of pathos out of his butt that had nothing to do with anything and was like there ya go, all better. I have always found it weird. If you wanted to use the idea of “love” why not have Kryten realise Rimmer, Cat and Lister put a lot of effort into making him feel better that the whole goal of life is love and family. But he didn’t connect those dots and i ain’t willing to connect those for him to think thats what he was really getting at.

[Dax101]

Well if you make something without an audience, isnt the issue more that you filmed it as if there was one? Since If you made a film you wouldnt have those gaps because you couldnt. Its the expectation that people at home would be laughing so much you need these little quiet moments. 
As for the cast acting different with an audience. Yeah well they kinda act up to the audience, which they didnt do so much in the early run. While with Series 7 i don’t see much talk about their comedy acting even though there was no audience when they filmed

There has been a lot of discussion about their performances in Series VII. Craig and Robert, in particular.
And Norman admitted that he struggled in his episode because of the absence of an audience.

Thing is i never seen that as one of the major criticisms for series 7. Compared to Back to earth where its a major criticism. And id guess that its easy to forget there is no audience for series 7 because they added a laughter track to it so it still feels like there is an audience there. So no one is noticing the silences to think oh that performance wasn’t as good.

[Dax101]

Well if you make something without an audience, isnt the issue more that you filmed it as if there was one? Since If you made a film you wouldnt have those gaps because you couldnt. Its the expectation that people at home would be laughing so much you need these little quiet moments. 

As for the cast acting different with an audience. Yeah well they kinda act up to the audience, which they didnt do so much in the early run. While with Series 7 i don’t see much talk about their comedy acting even though there was no audience when they filmed

[Dax101]

There are a lot of people that feel that the audience gives the show personallity and maybe a feeling of warmth. But they also blame the lack of it on Back to earth not being what they consider funny. But what are we trying to say there? The show is only funny when we are told when something is funny?

[Dax101]

I even don’t mind the idea of Can of Worms doing the Polymorph again. Because Polymorph was a homage/parody of Alien so having sequels to polymorph sorta work in that homage.

[Dax101]

The Dibbley Family was terrible. Thats when you know you have gone way too far.

[Dax101]

Im fine with Emohawk: Polymorph 2 drawing on its own past and i think thats because they never really did it up untill that point so it feels more like an anniversary special. And then after that episode, we have another 2 episodes that also don’t draw from the past with Rimmerworld and Out of Time. So it feels like a nice one-off trip down memory lane.

It’s when the nostalgia becomes too regular that it feels overly done.

[Dax101]

I think Doug brought back the crew because he knew he was going to reboot with the Movie and was likely going to bring Mac back as hollister. I think in some way Series 7 and 8 were testers for the movie. In terms of writing could also get that engine going.

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