Watching a 4:3 show on a widescreen TV

[Phil1034]

Dear G&T’s Agony Aunt

I am the object of ridicule amongst my friends and family for choosing to watch programmes in their correct aspect ratio. The other night I was forced to watch an episode of ‘The Wire’ stretched to fit my Widescreen telly and felt physically uncomfortable, my flat-mates argument is “you’ve paid for all that extra screen, so why not fill it” which to me seems bollocks frankly. Also I was invited to a friends for a movie night and he had his DVD player configured to 4:3 Letterbox when he had a 16:9 telly. Lunacy. I immediately halted proceedings to rectify this grave error.
Please tell me I’m not alone in this anally retentive behaviour. How do you watch 4:3 shows? Should I stick to my principals?

Thanks
Phil

Topic

[ChrisM]

I watch them the same as you. And I agree ‘you?ve paid for all that extra screen, so why not fill it’ is rubbish for 4:3. What’s the point filling the screen if people get stretched out and distorted.

Luckily my telly is pretty good at adjusting automatically depending on what ration is coming through. It does seem to depend on the channel though. I.e. it’s a bit irritating where you end up with a letter box in the middle of your widescreen telly rather than making use of the whole screen. And setting it to 16:9 doesn’t work in that context either, it just squidges up the picture. (i.e. it’s a letterbox in a 4:3 format… if that makes sense.)

[Mr-Stabby]

I couldn’t agree with you more. It tends to be people who actually either work in TV or respect the way TV is made that are so annoyed by 4:3 stretchyvision. Most normal people don’t care, which really annoys me personally. I HATE stretchyvision! Another pet hate of mine is the way some editors handle 4:3 material in a 16:9 frame, but that’s a whole other thread.

It’s not helped by the fact that a lot of Sky engineers and engineers who install DVD players for older people actually set the picture deliberately to 4:3 letterbox, even on 16:9 TVs. I have no idea why they do that. It’s not as if they leave the default setting on, they deliberately change it to 4:3L. Dumbass engineers!

[Pete Part Three]

Dear Phil,

Your friend is a twat.

Love and hugs,

Pete

[Jonathan Capps]

Pillar box aversion is a horrible thing, but it’s dwarfed in comparison to the abomination that is pan and scan. A friend of mine REFUSES to display 16:9 on his 4:3 telly so he chops off the sides. Death is too good for him.

[John Hoare]

Pillar box aversion is a horrible thing, but it?s dwarfed in comparison to the abomination that is pan and scan. A friend of mine REFUSES to display 16:9 on his 4:3 telly so he chops off the sides. Death is too good for him.

There’s not even any panning going on there!

What I find odd is that so many perfectly intelligent people just CAN’T see the problem with stretch-o-vision. Whereas to me, it’s just… so obvious how horrendous it is. I don’t really mind that people have a blind spot to it… but getting annoyed at pillarboxed pictures *does* push it into the tremendously irritating. If you don’t care enough to notice the stretched picture, how the fuck do you care enough about the black at the sides?

[Andrew]

“But…but you can’t see their heads! You’ve cutting off their…look, it’s just two noses either side of frame! For fuck’s sake, it’s two people people talking – and you’re watching the window behind them plus two noses bobbing in the foreground! What is WRONG with you?!”

“I dunno. I just find the black bars more annoying. This looks fine to me.”

*protracted sounds of violence and pain*

[John Hoare]

One channel I’ve worked on recently (and I’ve NEVER said where I work online, so I can’t get into trouble on this one!) broadcasts widescreen films without the widescreen flag set – so widescreen TVs just broadcast it in 4:3. So, you hit the widescreen button on your TV to flip it to 16:9 – and realise that the DOG is broadcast in 4:3. So you can either have the DOG in the right aspect ratio and the picture squashed, or the picture fine but have a horrendous stretched DOG which is really fucking irritating.

And that’s to say nothing about their trailers, which freely mix true widescreen clips with stretch-o-vision…

Even a lot of people in television seem to have this blind spot, and don’t care about the issue at all. And there’s NO excuse there.

[Jawscvmcdia]

4:3, as my TV is 4:3.

[hummingbird]

I can’t understand why anyone would be content to watch in the wrong ratio.
Are they just too lazy to press a button to change it? What’s so difficult about watching 4:3 in 4:3, and 16:9 in 16:9, anyway?

Pet hate: people who have to have every millimetre of the screen filled whatever the ratio so that you end up watching foreign films with half the subtitles chopped off.

[pfm]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

There. I think the above adequately illustrates my mindset whenever I walk into someone’s living room to find ‘stretchyvision’. I’ve changed so many people’s Sky settings, without them realising, it’s not funny.

Some people genuinely believe that widescreen IS about stretching the picture out.

[ori-STUDFARM]

I prefer stretchy vision. Makes me feel better to see other fat people. I don’t seem so fat then!

[Phil1034]

You mean I’m NOT alone?

> So you can either have the DOG in the right aspect ratio and the picture squashed, or the picture fine but have a horrendous stretched DOG which is really fucking irritating.

Yeah another pet hate. It may seem insignificant but it makes a huge difference when done right, like you know someone actually cares! What pisses me off the most is that in other regards there is a sense of striving for perfection with contemporary broadcasting (HD/red button services etc.) but when it comes to something really fucking elemental and seemingly easy to rectify (people who genuinely know feel free to correct me)the pooch keeps being screwed.

[Ben Paddon]

Many American networks have three stations now – one for 4:3 (which invariably shows letterbox’d content), one for 16:9, and one for HD which will usually pillar 4:3 content automatically.

Guess which versions of these networks my Dad and Stepmom almost uniformly choose to watch on our lovely widescreen HD tellybox.

[pfm]

I’m laughing at the thought of someone choosing to watch Lost in 4:3.

[Andrew]

> I?m laughing at the thought of someone choosing to watch Lost

Me too.

[pfm]

You fucking moron.

[Ben Paddon]

Except it wouldn’t be in 4:3. It’d be letterboxed. And also stretched because it’s being broadcast lettereboxed in 4:3 and watched on a widescreen TV.

[pfm]

Oh your programmes, your programmes.

[Ben Paddon]

Lost is rubbish. Nobody has any idea where it’s going or how it ends. That includes the writers.

I wish I’d seen the pitch meeting for that show.

“Right, what it’s about, right, a plane crashes on this island, yeah? And then they, like, sort of live on the island, and shit.”
“That’s… that’s basically ‘Gilligan’s Island’.”
“Is it?”
“Yeah. I mean, is this a comedy, or what?”
“No.”
“So it’s ‘Gilligan’s Island’, but without any jokes in.”
“Well… well no, because it’ll… have… there’ll be… a smoke monster.”
“A smoke monster.”
“Yes. And a polar bear.”
“A polar b–? You’re, you’re just scrabbling for ideas now.”
“No I’m not. And the survivors will find… a hole.”
“A hole.”
“Yes.”
“A hole in the island.”
“Well not in the island, per se.”
“I have to say, this sounds absolutely rubbish.”
“It does, yes.”
“Awful. Simply awful. No one’s going to watch it.”
“No, they’re not. I’m sorry.”
“…”
“…”
“…”
“…”
“What’s going to be in the hole?”

[pfm]

The real pitch meeting obviously went well seeing as they gave them the money to make the most expensive pilot ever.

One reason why people were pissed off with Lost is that they didn’t want it to be a long series. The pilot IS more like a movie and the first season full of so much mystery without explanation that many viewers were obviously going to get LOST quickly. Those with brains could stick with it.

What surprises me is how the time travel madness in season 5 DIDN’T turn off viewers. Or the fact that it was the weakest season, coming hot on the heels of IMO the strongest. The story of them coming back to the island was good but the ’70s Dharma stuff was naff and unneeded (though Sawyer’s character benefitted a great deal). The finale twist with Jacob and Locke was nice but it’s not been properly paid off yet so we can’t judge it.

Jack and Kate, the supposed ‘main’ leads, remain the weakest links in the entire show! I pray to Esau that they give Jack enough focus in season 6 to make his story actually worthwhile and, honestly, I hope they KILL Kate for just being crap. Evangeline Lilly’s hotness can only justify so much.

[Andrew]

> One reason why people were pissed off with Lost is that they didn?t want it to be a long series…Those with brains could stick with it.

Yeah, it’s absolutely this simple. Cos I hate ambition and long-plan series, and don’t possess the intellect to comprehend any other form of TV. That goodness you got to the bottom of that one.

[peas_and_corn]

I’d like to know why widescreen TV is 16:9, when cinema uses a different aspect ratio (it’s what… 2.5:1?)

[hummingbird]

> I hope they KILL Kate for just being crap

I’ve been hoping this since season 2

> One reason why people were pissed off with Lost is that they didn?t want it to be a long series

I think the main reason is that people have such a short attention span and they want the payoff NOW, not 2, 3 or 5 years down the line.
And Lost (with a couple of exceptions) doesn’t feel the need to spell out every single plot point and make it blindingly obvious. It rewards you actually paying attention to the plot – quite contrary to the tendency these days to spoon feed people rather than try to allow them to figure things out for themselves.,

Personally I think Lost is one of the best shows I’ve seen for …. oooh, I don’t know how long. I’ll admit it has lost it’s way at times, notably seasons 3 and 4 went seriously awry at points, but now that we’re drawing towards the final season you can see that it’s carefully plotted and drawing towards a clear conclusion.

Lost’s biggest failing is that it’s completely inaccessible to a casual viewer. I mean, either you watch it or you don’t. To someone who hasn’t been watching it since day one it must seem like complete gibberish.

[Pete Part Three]

Just wait till Cappsy gets here…

Anyway, I thought Lost was pretty crap in Season 2 where they introduced a ton of characters and systematically killed them all off. But then it turned things totally around in Season 3 (with the best ever episode still being “The Constant”). They clearly didn’t have a plan from day one but they just as clearly do now.

I think the ending is going to be a big disappointment, but it’s still remarkably well made and put together.

And…

LEAVE EVANGELINE ALONE!

[hummingbird]

quite apart from the fact that “The Constant” was in season 4

[Pete Part Three]

A typo. I guess it does make my post completely redundant though.

[Jonathan Capps]

> Just wait till Cappsy gets here?

I’m staying quiet. Except…

> Season 3 (with the best ever episode still being ?The Constant?).

The Constant was in season 4.

[Pete Part Three]

I think we’ve experienced this period of time before.

[Jonathan Capps]

Oh yeah!

Ok, so while I’m here I’d like to say that Ben is talking bullshit.

[Pete Part Three]

(Quoting White Hole from Series Three there)

[Jonathan Capps]

> (Quoting White Hole from Series Three there)

You must be confused, White Hole wasn’t an episode of Lost.

[Pete Part Three]

My mistake. What’s the one with the vampire and the ghost with the “N” on his forehead?

[pfm]

> Yeah, it?s absolutely this simple. Cos I hate ambition and long-plan series, and don?t possess the intellect to comprehend any other form of TV.

It’s good of you to admit that.

The Constant is indeed an amazing episode, possibly the best ever. The Variable was pretty crap in comparison. What I didn’t like about it was how stupid they made Faraday look, suddenly thinking ‘oh yeah, we MIGHT be able to change things’. Not to mention him walking into the Others’ camp shooting like that, what did he expect was going to happen?

I hope everyone is ready for the alternate reality season. Hopefully we’ll see Richard Alpert’s story, Ben getting some kind of redemption, Widmore getting his fucking comeuppance, Jack getting a good ending with purpose, Sawyer going out in a blaze of glory etc.

[Ben Paddon]

Ok, so while I?m here I?d like to say that Ben is talking bullshit.

That’s usually the case, yes.

[Antipodean]

I think it’s worth noting that the polar bears and the hatch have both been explained…

Oh, and I *hate* stretchyvision so much! But what annoys me more is when the analogue signal “compromises” with 16:9 shows by broadcasting them in 14:9, with a thin sliver shaved off each side and with small black bars on the top & bottom. Thing is, my widescreen TV has 3 settings — 16:9, 4:3 and Zoom — so if I’ve recorded something on the VCR I can either watch it with pillarboxes and small letterboxes, or zoomed in with a sliver shaved off the top and bottom as well. Then again, last week we got a digital recorder so it’s not so much of a problem any more.

[Andrew]

> I think it?s worth noting that the polar bears and the hatch have both been explained?

As someone who gave up after 50 episodes, I’d be more than happy if someone wants to explain the stuff we DO know at this point. Y’know, rather than actually watch the show…

[Nick R]

> But what annoys me more is when the analogue signal ?compromises? with 16:9 shows by broadcasting them in 14:9, with a thin sliver shaved off each side and with small black bars on the top & bottom. Thing is, my widescreen TV has 3 settings ? 16:9, 4:3 and Zoom ? so if I?ve recorded something on the VCR I can either watch it with pillarboxes and small letterboxes, or zoomed in with a sliver shaved off the top and bottom as well. Then again, last week we got a digital recorder so it?s not so much of a problem any more.

I think broadcasting 14:9 on analogue is a good compromise – doesn’t annoy the old dears who wonder why their screens aren’t being filled. :) However, our widescreen TV (a CRT) does have a 14:9 setting, but it’s not available when playing back a video recording from our DVD+R recorder (no PVR just yet!), in which case I encounter the same problem as you. And you can only view Teletext in either 4:3 or 16:9, not 14:9 (not that that’ll be an issue much longer… sadly).

For some reason our TV also has separate “wide” and “16:9” settings, which seem to produce identical effects.

[PhilPagett]

>>?I dunno. I just find the black bars more annoying. This looks fine to me.?

This.

[Seb Patrick]

Anyway, I thought Lost was pretty crap in Season 2 where they introduced a ton of characters and systematically killed them all off. But then it turned things totally around in Season 3 (with the best ever episode still being ?The Constant?). They clearly didn?t have a plan from day one but they just as clearly do now.

This. I’ll admit to being one of the people who disliked it – and believed, and still do, that there wasn’t a complete plan at that point – at the start, but it has got a hell of a lot better – and they clearly know EXACTLY where they’re going with it, and have done since season three. It’s stopped being a mystery about some impossibly pretty people in a jungle, and started being a headfuck time-travel drama about a load of weirdos and geeks. What’s not to like?

[Seb Patrick]

Oh, and I like how the answer to the “Where are they? Are they dead? Are they in purgatory? Are they dreaming?” question basically turned out to be nothing more complicated than THEY’RE STUCK ON A FUCKING ISLAND SOMEWHERE.

(that’s not sarcasm. I genuinely like that. The point at which the show became good was when all the questions stopped being about what had ALREADY happened, and instead became about what was GOING to happen. It’s actually *drama* now, and good drama at that.)

[The PerformingMonkey]

> The point at which the show became good was when all the questions stopped being about what had ALREADY happened, and instead became about what was GOING to happen.

Right. They realised they couldn’t just keep stringing people along with the original mysteries like ‘what’s the smoke monster?’ ‘why did the plane crash?’ etc. they had to get a few answers out of the way so they could move on. They may have only been partial answers but it was enough for viewers to put the big questions to the back of their mind and concentrate on enjoying the drama.

A big copout conclusion of them beind dead or dreaming would be unforgivable and Lindelof and Cuse know it, they have said the ending isn’t like that.

[Nakrophile]

It does annoy me a lot as well. People are lazy I guess, or hate themselves for spending some deal of money on a big tv and feel they have to justify it by watching everything as big as they can, or maybe the bars bother them. It annoys me but not to the extent of trying to change it, as I did this once and gave up after my friend kept switching back to WIDE when we were watching something that shouldn’t have been. Eh.

As for Lost, I still don’t see the big deal about it. I did watch all of it in a couple of months when season 5 started with one of my friends who has been watching it since it began, so the drawn out mystery of a lot of things didn’t bother me as much as it probably would have had I been there since it aird. But then I didn’t think it was that fantastic anyway; entertaining, sure, but nothing more. I think it’s because it’s so new that everyone raves about it, same with the new Battlestar Galactica which I recently finished. No fucking way is that the best sci-fi show ever; it’s not even close, but I think the continuing arc combined with the fact that it’s new helped to make everyone think it was so amazing, or at least the praise I’ve seen of it. To me it just seemed to be the Dominion War for an entire series instead of two seasons except miles more cheesy and with only two or maybe three characters that I genuinely cared for. Again, good (some great moments, don’t get me wrong; same with Lost, and Heroes for that matter) but nothing spectacular.

All of those shows never stayed with me after they were over, either individual episodes or the whole thing the way other things have. With other stuff I have sat in bed still thinking about and caring for the characters, but not at all with any of these.

[Dave]

My parents have just bought a widescreen TV, which is hooked up to a hard disk recorder thing with a built-in DVD player. The only two DVDs I’ve watched on it were Torchwood’s Children Of Earth which looked amazing and Mawdryn Undead which looked like shit, pixelly and flat, I have yet to watch it again on my own less impressive set-up.

[The PerformingMonkey]

> No fucking way is that the best sci-fi show ever

I don’t think anyone’s saying that it is. It COULD have been. If you take everything up to S03E05, cutting the odd crap one out of series 2, I genuinely believe you have one of the greatest shows of all-time, sci-fi or otherwise.

Only the odd episode that followed excited me to the extent that seasons 1 & 2 and the New Caprica episodes had. Razor was fantastic (the DVD version), Baltar’s trial 2-parter with Romo Lampkin pretty good (I wish they hadn’t brought him back after that, he could have stood as an extremely cool one-off character). Only a couple of stunners in season 4, and of course the finale.

I wish they had done 13-episode seasons all through.

[Nakrophile]

I have read lots of comments that specifically say that it is; granted a lot of them were from reviews and press as opposed to normal people, but I’ve never seen anything else branded as such so many times. Anyway I actually thought it got better as it went on as I didn’t think much of the mini series or a lot of the first season. Generally also I thought the pace of it was far too fast, particularly when Starbuck goes to look for that arrow and they make a big deal about it, then she’s back like two episodes later. In fact I thought the pacing throughout wasn’t very good and there was only time to breath in the last part of season 4, and even that picked up again towards the end. The finale itself was okay I suppose, although they spent too long on new Earth and then the final thing was ridiculous, even though I liked the idea that it was all set in the past.

I’ll give the series consistency, although like I say I thought it was massively over-hyped.

I’m interested though, how many characters did you (or anyone else) really care for throughout the series? If it was more than four I’d be surprised.

[Author]

Replies