Alien 3

[Ben Kirkham]

Hey all, I’ve been watching the FANTASTIC Alien Quadrilogy boxset and I’ve just finished Alien 3. Why does this film get such a bashing? I loved it! Different from the first two but that’s the key, I think.

Maybe it was the film’s troubled production that gives it a bad reputation. I have to admit, though, I found the idea of the wooden planet populated by monks a tad more interesting.

Thoughts?

Topic

[JamesTC]

I liked it, by no means as good as the first 2 but it was still an enjoyable film, I especially liked Paul McGann calling the Alien a dragon.

[p2p_productions]

Yeah, I’ve always liked Alien 3, but that might have something to do with the order in which I saw the films. For some bizarre reason, I first saw Aliens, then Alien 3, then Alien.

Much like Doug with BtE, you have to admire Fincher for putting together a film like that, bearing in mind the constraints he was under at the time (they started filming without a SCRIPT).

The story is mostly in keeping with the previous films. The visual design/FX are good. The music/sound is original/innovative.

Overall, I have to say, I still enjoy it. Better than Resurrection, IMO. Though I’m sure the original concept of Vincent Ward’s ‘wooden world’ would’ve been more critically acclaimed – but maybe not as ‘exciting’ in sequel terms.

[Pete Part Three]

My big problem with Alien3 is the distinct lack of a single likeable character. Ripley is so distant by this point that it’s hard to feel much empathy with her. Coupled with the morbid tone, and I find it a slight chore.

It’s certainly better than Resurrection, though.

[Ben Kirkham]

I watched 25 minutes of Resurrection and decided to leave it until I’m in the mood. It didn’t seem very interesting to me. I just think maybe it’s a step too far. In making that, it renders Ripley’s sacrifice at the end of Alien 3 rather pointless. She dies to kill the queen alien inside her, but it’s all for nothing, because they bring her back and just carry on with a clone as though it never happened.

> My big problem with Alien3 is the distinct lack of a single likeable character.

I quite liked Charles Dance’s character, but he got killed off just when you started to like him! And Ripley has gone a bit nuts by this point.

> I especially liked Paul McGann calling the Alien a dragon.

Paul McGann is great in anything he does, he needs to be given a multiple Doctor appearance in Doctor Who (please, Mr Moffat?). I do think they could have used McGann more in Alien 3, actually.

[Richey]

> I do think they could have used McGann more in Alien 3, actually.

I take it from this that you’ve not watched the Quadrilogy’s superb Director’s Cut of Alien 3 then? Because Golic (Paul McGann) features heavily in it. It features the original storyline that Fincher wanted of them trapping the alien initially, as planned…but then it all goes horribly wrong courtesy of the demented Golic.

It’s a much better cut of the movie and I think it’s a stunning close to the trilogy. Yes…trilogy. Resurrection does not exist in this dojo.

[JamesTC]

I don’t see why Golic didn’t get Lucie or Charley to help, even Grace.

[Ben Kirkham]

> I take it from this that you?ve not watched the Quadrilogy?s superb Director?s Cut of Alien 3 then?

No, I’d forgotten about that. This is such a mammoth set that I want to watch all the theatrical versions first before watching the special editions, but I’m happy Golic features more heavily.

In fact, I noticed that the Special Edition of Alien is actually shorter than the original, which is interesting. Frankly, the first film was so brilliant I can’t see where or why you’d want to tamper with it, but I’m interested in seeing Scott’s choices.

[Nakrophile]

The director’s cut of Alien is interesting, just a few things tightened up if you will, and an equally interesting scene with Dallas.

Anyway, Alien 3 is fantastic and its reception has improved over time, I think most of the problem was the dramatic shift away from the tone of the first two films (well not so much Alien really, but you get the idea), particularly as Aliens had been so action-packed and gung-ho. It is definitely the end of the trilogy, I enjoy Resurrection a bit but fuck it in it’s stupid pointless face.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

I think Alien 3 pissed me off from the start by immediately killing off Newt, Hicks and Bishop.

Have reappraised it in recent years. I do like it much more, especially the special edition – though it’s annoying that they didn’t tidy up the sound in the re-inserted scenes.

It’s still a pretty bloody depressing film, though. The Alien effects are horrible…and overall it feels like Scum in Space, guest starring the Alien.

[Andrew]

> I take it from this that you?ve not watched the Quadrilogy?s superb Director?s Cut of Alien 3 then?

It is, categorically, not a director’s cut. Fincher had nothing to do with its release or inclusion on the DVD. The best you can call it is the workprint. It’s arguably the better version, crappy ‘cowburster’ aside, but neither film represents the film as the director wanted it. Arguably that version is impossible to make from what was shot.

Three’s a very good, intelligent SF flick. It mainly falls down on being hardly scary at all. The oppressive atmosphere is very successful, not so much the ‘horror movie’ anxiety stuff.

[Ben Kirkham]

>It is, categorically, not a director?s cut. Fincher had nothing to do with its release or inclusion on the DVD.

I think it’s a real shame that Fincher decided not to take part in the DVD at all. Totally understandable, of course. Considering the troubled production (probably THE most troubled production of a film that I’ve ever heard of) I think he did an extremely impressive job.

[Ben Kirkham]

> I think Alien 3 pissed me off from the start by immediately killing off Newt, Hicks and Bishop.<

Yeah, that was something of a shock but actually I was quite pleased about it. It was a different feel, and since the end of the second film you thought they were all going to be fine – Ripley had found her ‘family.’

> Have reappraised it in recent years. I do like it much more, especially the special edition – though it?s annoying that they didn?t tidy up the sound in the re-inserted scenes.<

I think the DVD booklet mentions something about this: “In the end, some of the production audio could not be repaired, and there are certain points where the dialogue does not match or is difficult to hear. Using the best of today’s technology, this extended version has been restored to the highest quality possible.”

I suppose it’s a bit like The Wicker Man Director’s Cut, though that suffers from a drop in picture quality as apposed to sound. But in that case, it improves what is already a superb film.

>It?s still a pretty bloody depressing film, though. The Alien effects are horrible?and overall it feels like Scum in Space, guest starring the Alien.<

It is the most depressing, certainly. Death of a child, locked away with rapists and murderers, alien on the loose, alien growing inside you. Ripley’s had better days at the office! And the alien effects are the most disappointing, particularly after Aliens had gone all out to show us an alien queen so well. That said, I do like that it’s a lone alien, think that works much better.

>It is definitely the end of the trilogy, I enjoy Resurrection a bit but fuck it in it?s stupid pointless face.

Yeah, you can’t bring a character who has died so brilliantly back from the dead and then claim that the trilogy isn’t over. I also love the echoes of sound from Alien at the end: “Ripley, last surviving crewmember of the Nostromo.”

[cliff]

Alien 3 was the weaker of the initial trilogy primaraly as the Alien changed scale frequently and very often had a noticable blue line around it…

[Pete Part Three]

> I think Alien 3 pissed me off from the start by immediately killing off Newt, Hicks and Bishop

They would have had to recast Newt anyway.

They mostly come at night. Mostly.

[cliff]

Why didn’t they put her in charge?….

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Ayefirmatif.

[Tarka Dal]

Haven’t we experienced this thread before?

Even down to the replies and then the talk of recasting Newt. Which btw they didn’t HAVE to do. The film didn’t have to follow on directly from Aliens. It could have been set several years after.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

So what is it?

[Tarka Dal]

GO AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!

[cliff]

Just don’t mention Alien resurrection……..oopps!.

[Nakrophile]

Who wants to get the fuck off of this boat LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL OMG

[pfm]

> Fincher had nothing to do with its release or inclusion on the DVD.

He still had to give them permission to use that cut, even if he had nothing to do with the release (they actually had to cut certain parts of the behind-the-scenes doco that featured him). Technically it’s the closest we’re ever likely to get to his true vision of the film. He’s one of a long line of directors who’ve been fucked over by studio interference.

[Ridley]

So it’s not Aliens then?

———-

The Dark Horse Aliens comics have an interesting what-if with Newt and Hicks aka Billie and Wilks.

http://uk.movies.ign.com/articles/035/035962p1.html

[Andrew]

> He still had to give them permission to use that cut, even if he had nothing to do with the release (they actually had to cut certain parts of the behind-the-scenes doco that featured him).

They had to cut the doc because the studio weren’t keen on how badly they were coming off, mind you. He wasn’t the one asking them to rename the section originally called ‘the rape of Alien3’.

‘Permission to release a curiosity’ – one which will bring him significant residual revenue – isn’t ‘endorsement’.

> Technically it?s the closest we?re ever likely to get to his true vision of the film.

Technically, it’s no more or less approximate to his vision, as far as we know, than the release cut. He’s never said he PREFERS the cowburster, we just know it was shot first. And since the studio interference began at the script stage, and followed him into shooting, there’s no reason to assume that a ‘first’ cut is the same as a ‘preferred cut’.

Again, The Original Assembly of The End only shows what was done first, not what was preferred by those involved. Fincher did his own reshoots, and while he may not have wanted all of them to happen the way they did, doesn’t mean he didn’t prefer some of them.

[peas_and_corn]

>They had to cut the doc because the studio weren?t keen on how badly they were coming off, mind you. He wasn?t the one asking them to rename the section originally called ?the rape of Alien3?.

Sorry, but wha??? Please explain this a bit more!

[Andrew]

The makers went for a candid, honest doc all the way through. You’ll notice that the featurettes for each of the other films all have individual titles, named for interview answers, good quotes or whatever. But Alien 3’s are mostly limited to ‘The Making Of Alien3 Part 1″ kinda titles.

The edits that the makers delivered to Fox weren’t approved by the company, since they presented the execs on the Alien3 project is a hideously bad light, interfering and ruinous. They asked for substantial cuts to be made, along with changes to the documentary titles. The makers made the changes, under protest – cut the content out and going for the dullest doc title names.

[Tarka Dal]

What a shame we’ll never see the original cut of that.

[peas_and_corn]

Cheers!

There’s some honesty still in there, so I wonder what sort of stuff was cut. I presume the original cut hasn’t leaked somewhere?

[thomasaevans]

That IS very interesting. Alien QUadrilogy is by far the best FILM DVD I own. And Alien 3 is like a fine wine.

[Dessie]

Hicks should of lived. Michael Biehn is great in everything he does and finding out he wasn’t in Alien 3 made no sense too me.

[pfm]

> I presume the original cut hasn?t leaked somewhere?

Surely Fox would come down on certain people like a ton of bricks if it ever did.

You’ve got to feel for Fincher, having to argue with execs all the way through the production of his first film (before that he’d only done a few music videos (actually, just checking it was a LOT more than a few, some great ones there too like Michael Jackson’s ‘Who Is It?’) and was a cameraman for a while). Though it had already been in plenty of trouble long before he came onboard.

Whatever, Fox obviously made a lot more money than they bloody deserved with Alien3. If Fincher hadn’t have been so talented it could have ended up being one of the worst films ever made (like Alien Resurrection…).

[hummingbird]

FYI Quadrilogy box set for ?9.99 ….
http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/125722/Alien-Quadrilogy-Box-Set/Product.html?add=125722

[Ben Paddon]

Y’know, nobody from G&T got be a birthday present this year…

…HINTY HINT…

[Phil]

I gave you several. (I suggest you see a doctor.)

[Author]

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