If the cast of Red Dwarf had a race, who would win?

[Jawscvmcdia]

Also, who would drive what?

Lister: Starbug 1
Rimmer: Starbug 2
Cat: Blue Midget
Kryten: White Midget?

Topic

[NoFro]

This is a new low.

[bloodteller]

dirk dastardly and muttley, probably

[Dave]

If the cast of Red Dwarf ate at a restaurant, who would order the most expensive meal?

If the cast of Red Dwarf had to hold up full buckets of water, who could last the longest before putting their arms down?

If the cast of Red Dwarf had to draw a circle freehand, whose would be the most accurate?

If the cast of Red Dwarf had favourite colours, what would they be?

If the cast of Red Dwarf were invisible, what would they do?

If the cast of Red Dwarf appeared in other sitcoms, which one would be the manager of a leisure centre?

If the cast of Red Dwarf were criminals, which one would get the longest sentence?

If the cast of Red Dwarf had to cast a new version of Red Dwarf, who would the Red Dwarf cast cast as the cast of Red Dwarf?

[Ben Saunders]

>If the cast of Red Dwarf ate at a restaurant, who would order the most expensive meal?
The Cat

>If the cast of Red Dwarf had to hold up full buckets of water, who could last the longest before putting their arms down?
Kryten

>If the cast of Red Dwarf had to draw a circle freehand, whose would be the most accurate?
Kryten

>If the cast of Red Dwarf had favourite colours, what would they be?
Kryten

>If the cast of Red Dwarf were invisible, what would they do?
Kryten

>If the cast of Red Dwarf appeared in other sitcoms, which one would be the manager of a leisure centre?
Kryten

>If the cast of Red Dwarf were criminals, which one would get the longest sentence?
Kryten

>If the cast of Red Dwarf had to cast a new version of Red Dwarf, who would the Red Dwarf cast cast as the cast of Red Dwarf?
Lister

[Dave]

If the cats of Red Dwarf had a race, where the hell are they? Only half of them died in that asteroid crash.

[Flap Jack]

OK, seeing as this thread is clearly DOA, can I just point out how weird it is that a staple of the series is named after an ableist slur, and how little this gets mentioned?

Like, sure, “Red Dwarf” is named for uses of the word “dwarf” in astronomy, and Rob/Doug wanted to give the shuttle crafts names with the same theme, but why the hell would they choose “derogatory terms for little people” instead of “fantasy races”? They could have used Elf, Sprite, Pixie, Orc, Goblin, Gnome, Fairy etc. but NOPE, “midget” it is.

[Dave]

https://www.wyevalegardencentres.co.uk/shop/centaurea-dwarf-blue-midget-0820000159/

Bastards.

[bloodteller]

Blue Goblin isn’t nearly as catchy

[bloodteller]

the red dwarf ships have strange design choices as is (why do all these futuristic space stations look like the boiler room at shepperton?) so it’s no real surprise that they’ve been given bizarre names too tbh

[Ben Saunders]

Blue Midget’s just a pun on Red Dwarf, “dwarf” also being an ableist slur, it was the 80s, and now that it’s the 2010s there is still no issue with calling a small blue ship Blue Midget, imo.

Maybe we can assume dwarfism has been cured by whatever century the Dwarfers come from, hence making it no longer a concern to anybody.

[Flap Jack]

Blue Midget’s just a pun on Red Dwarf, “dwarf” also being an ableist slur, it was the 80s, and now that it’s the 2010s there is still no issue with calling a small blue ship Blue Midget, imo.

“Dwarf” is indeed ableist too, BUT:

A. It’s not nearly ableist as “midget”, and is even sometimes considered to be a politically correct term – though admittedly less so as time goes on.

B. “Dwarf” only has the strictly ableist connotation if you make it clear you’re alluding to a little person and not just the concept of a thing being small in general, which the addition of Blue Midget does, retrospectively.

And as I’ve already explained, there were plenty of options for making “a pun on Red Dwarf” that would have avoided using a word like that, so that’s no excuse. “It was the 80s” is not any kind of excuse either, but even if it were, that doesn’t justify its usage in Series VIII (1999) or Series X (2012). Just because you introduce that Blue Midget exists, it doesn’t mean you’re obliged to keep using it in stories.

Maybe we can assume dwarfism has been cured by whatever century the Dwarfers come from, hence making it no longer a concern to anybody.

That’s irrelevant. Red Dwarf is not a documentary that’s been sent back in time to us, it’s a fictional show made for an audience which almost definitely includes little people who have been tormented by people shouting that word at them while demeaning them and/or showing aggression towards them for much of their lives. The problem with Blue Midget’s name is not a lack of an in-universe explanation, the problem is that casually using a word like that in a sitcom normalises it. (The idea that little people just straight up don’t exist in the future opens up a whole different Can of Worms, too, but this reply is long enough already.)

Anyway, Blue Midget is obviously just a small detail in the show and I’m not accusing Rob or Doug of being prejudiced or deliberately hurtful or anything like that, just that they didn’t think over the name properly, and it’s odd how it never really gets discussed.

[International Debris]

It was named after a popular limited edition blue coloured Midget Gem that appeared in bags of sweets during a promotional campaign in the early 23rd century.

[bloodteller]

what flavour are the blue midget gems?

[NoFro]

I think this thread might have actually got worse. I can’t see how there is anything offensive about the use of the word dwarf or midget, as far as this show is concerned. The word midget is not just a politically incorrect term for short people but can be used to refer to anything small. The word dwarf is clearly used in reference to red dwarf stars.

[Jimboid]

Jawscvmcdia is masturbating furiously and planning the next thread.

[Flap Jack]

I can’t see how there is anything offensive about the use of the word dwarf or midget, as far as this show is concerned.

1. “Midget” is just a slur against a minority group.
2. Using slurs is bad, or at the very least, awkward.

That’s really all there is to it.

[Ben Saunders]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midget_submarine

Well would you lookie here.

[Dave]

I nominate this thread for Hall of Shite status.

[Flap Jack]

Well would you lookie here.

Can we please stop trying to pretend that “the word technically also has an innocent definition which is practically archaic in its usage!” is a legitimate argument for the defence?

Would you be totally cool if there were other shuttle crafts in the show called “Yellow Retard”, “Purple Spastic” or “Cyan Faggot”? After all, all those words have non-offensive meanings too. Who would feel slightly uncomfortable because a fictional ship is named after a vegetable or whatever?

Anyways, please do nominate this thread to the Hall of Smeg for my apparently doomed attempts to mildly scrutinise an element of Red Dwarf; I’m sure Jawscvmcdia would be chuffed with that result . :’D

[Flap Jack]

The Cat would totally win the race. He’s become quite the adept pilot over the years, plus he’s got those superior feline instincts and can even smell through the vacuum of space. It’s a dead cert!

[Hamish]

> Can we please stop trying to pretend that “the word technically also has an innocent definition which is practically archaic in its usage!” is a legitimate argument for the defence?

I think the defence in that particular instance is that “midget” is an already established term for describing small ships, something which “faggot”, “spastic”, and “retard” are not.

You can call it archaic if you like, but the Wikipedia article makes no mention of it being considered to be an outmoded term in the case of the submarine.

[NoFro]

Nor, according to most dictionaries, is it an offensive UNLESS it is referring to someone with Dwarfism. Context is everything in this case, I think.

[NoFro]

I mean I usually wouldn’t use a dictionary as evidence but they’re usually pretty quick to state if something is a slur. Midget is noted as a word that can be used as a slur, but only when in reference to people with dwarfism. Otherwise it can just be used to describe things that are small.

[Moonlight]

I’m pretty sure a skutter can go 30 mph.

[Flap Jack]

Yeah, fair points here. And just to contextualise the dramatic enthusiasm of my replies, I only thought the name seemed a bit iffy on reflection, not that it was genuinely as bad as the examples I gave or a massive, unforgivable sin on the show’s part.

But hopefully I can make some more sense out of why I still feel that the slight iffiness is genuine:

True, “midget” is a real, in-use term for small submarines, and it’s perfectly valid to recognise that Red Dwarf is another show where spaceships are treated like futuristic sea vessels, BUT:

1. The history of the word “midget” pretty much goes:

   First usage for boats -> First usage/recognition as a slur -> Usage in Red Dwarf

   So, given the more troubling baggage the word gained after it was originally used as a category of submarines, it is unlikely that they would continue to name specific boats with this word hundreds of years into the future – because even though the word continues to be used for submarines now, a spaceship is not a submarine, and the mass production of space shuttle crafts is a key opportunity to come up with new terms.

   This is the same reason a comedy writer might also pause when considering this as a name option in the late 80s, or perhaps resist referencing it in the 90s or 2010s.

2. The only context in which “dwarf” and “midget” are specifically paired up like this – since, as has been said, “dwarf” is for celestial bodies and “midget” is for boats – is when referring to little people.

   Therefore, the choice of “Midget” to accompany “Dwarf” in ship names creates the problematic inference, regardless of innocent intentions.

So you folks may not agree with my assessment of Blue Midget’s name as being slightly iffy, but I hope you can at least understand where I’m coming from. =)

[Dollar Pound]

man in the rubber mask goes into this – americans apparently flinched at the word dwarf in the early 90s

[Dave]

So you folks may not agree with my assessment of Blue Midget’s name as being slightly iffy, but I hope you can at least understand where I’m coming from.

Fair points. It’s one of those words that is so far removed from being automatically offensive (for me) that the possibility of Blue Midget’s being interpreted as a slur or a reference to that meaning never even occurred to me until this conversation. But if you associate the word strongly enough with that meaning then I can see why you might read potential offence into it.

[Dollar Pound]

if you want iffy, rimmer calls lister a pygmy in series i, that’s worse than dwarf and midget combined (still quite small).

[International Debris]

Whilst I definitely get the point, I think both ‘midget’ and ‘dwarf’ are used to mean ‘very small’ in so many scenarios, that I can’t say I’d even considered them being reference to their less appropriate definitions.
I’d be interested to hear the perspective of people who have restrictive growth conditions, because it’s an issue which rarely gets discussed. I wonder if anybody directly affected has ever been upset or bothered by it.

[Ian Symes]

“Actually we do have an issue with the title.”
“What about the title?”
“It’s not… it’s not, uhhh…”
“It’s not politically correct.”
“We don’t wanna upset the dwarves, they’re big business here in Hollywood.”
“Christ knows how Disney got away with it.”
“I got it – Red Vertically Challenged Person!”
“Yeah!”

[Flap Jack]

I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Warwick Davis say in interviews that Dwarf is more or less OK but Midget is a major no-no. And if you can’t trust Professor Flitwick to be right about these sorts of things, then who can you trust?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Warwick lives in the UK though. Different cultures / regions will have different reactions to certain words and phrases depending on their history with them. So, in the UK Warwick could well be right, but that doesn’t mean in stands in the US.

[Hamish]

> “Christ knows how Disney got away with it.”

Or new New Line Cinema for that matter…

[Ben Saunders]

Interesting that “spaz” isn’t particularly offensive in America, it seems. There was an American athlete on TV recently who said she was “totally spazzing out” in an interview once and the British hosts had to apologise profusely for her “horrible language”, which of course to her was just regular language. And yet they take exception to “red dwarf”.

[Ben Saunders]

“Drug crazed transvestite” isn’t very PC, either.

[bloodteller]

i don’t think anyone is really going to be offended by the name of a craft being “blue midget”

[bloodteller]

timewave is more offensive arguably

[bloodteller]

not the name “timewave” but the offensive content in the episode with said name

[Ben Saunders]

I really didn’t appreciate the Cat calling Johnny Vegas’ character “Officer Faggot”, it felt really out of place.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Apart from anything else, where has Cat picked up homophobia from? It’s outnof place and entirely out of character.

Maybe there is a really homophobic vending machine?

[Moonlight]

I’ll ask Faggot Tony, he’s a bit faggy.

[Flap Jack]

Warwick lives in the UK though. Different cultures / regions will have different reactions to certain words and phrases depending on their history with them. So, in the UK Warwick could well be right, but that doesn’t mean in stands in the US.

Oh, sure. Red Dwarf is a UK show and I’m a UK citizen so that’s where I was coming from. Whether certain things are more/less offensive in the US is a whole different question, but that’s not the audience Series 2 was written for anyway.

timewave is more offensive arguably

not the name “timewave” but the offensive content in the episode with said name

No doubt about that!

Seriously, if you ever imply that I think Blue Midget is more offensive than Timewave, I’m afraid I will have to sue you for defamation and libel.

[International Debris]

It’s a good job they decided to scrap the third ship-to-surface craft, Gay Bending Bum Bandit.

[Hamish]

We all live in a vertically challenged submarine
vertically challenged submarine, vertically challenged submarine

[Ben Saunders]

I for one am really glad they decided against calling the effeminate robot Bender.

[Hamish]

Short space ships got no reason
Short space ships got no reason
To live

[Author]

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