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  • #5752
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    Dr Who Special WOOP, ITS ON IN AN HOUR:)

    #106121
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I’ll wait till it is up for download on IPlayer at about 8:30.

    #106123

    This one looks like it’s going to be a classic, if I’m being honest.

    #106124
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    Sorry but……………Doctor Who?

    Never gets old that one ! Phnarr!

    #106125
    hummingbird
    Participant

    15 minutes !!1!!!

    #106126

    See you in 10 minutes.

    #106127
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I?ll wait till it is up for download on IPlayer at about 8:30.

    Any particular reason?

    #106129
    JamesTC
    Participant

    No access to a widescreen TV at the moment, would rather wait and watch a higher quality version on my laptop in widescreen.

    #106130
    JamesTC
    Participant

    They put it up fast, though it isn’t in HD, meh, I’m downloading it now.

    #106131
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Blimey. Was a bit underwhelmed for a lot of it (The Doctor shirking the role of protagonist and the water thing being too reminiscent of shadows in SitL) but the last 15 minutes were awesome, rivalling the finale of Utopia.

    #106132
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > but the last 15 minutes were awesome, rivalling the finale of Utopia

    I’m not sure it was quite as good as Utopia, but I echo your overall sentiments. I ended up introducing a new viewer via this episode too. I can imagine bits of it can’t have made any sense at all.

    #106135
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Liked it. Very nice. And ha ha, no Master in it (and no anagram after all).

    #106137
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >Master in it (and no anagram after all).

    Hmm, robot Master? Beardy laughing guy?

    Well I thought that was the best episode of Who since ‘Human Nature’/’Family of Blood’.
    The Doctor actually being corrupt with power, brilliant.

    And then to top it all off we get the so very nice dedication to the legend Barry Letts, a very nice gesture.

    #106138
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Well actually he isn’t a robot, he did look like one on first viewing though.

    #106139
    Somebody
    Participant

    “THE LAWS OF TIME ARE MINE, AND THEY WILL OBEY ME!”

    #106140
    JamesTC
    Participant

    “I AM THE MASTER AND YOU WILL OBEY ME!”

    #106142
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    “I AM GADGET THE ROBOT, AND YOU WILL EBAY ME!”

    #106144
    JamesTC
    Participant

    http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/DoctorWoodAdventures/random/DoctorWho_BBCOne_2009_11_15_18_5-5.jpg

    Does that look like a Robot endoskeleton? It did at first glance but I’m not so sure, just seems like a simple x-ray.

    #106146
    Somebody
    Participant

    My first thought was that the Master was brought back as a Rimmer-style hologram, actually. At least, I think it looks waay too cartoony for a “simple X-ray”.

    #106147
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    It could be from one of the “bad dreams”.

    #106150
    JamesTC
    Participant
    #106154
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Or maybe that’s muscle tissue.

    #106155
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Decent episode! Great at the end. (Just saw it. It takes me a while but I get there in the end.)

    The earlier part with his decision to do nothing, but then changing his mind thing was a bit predictable. But the consequences… certainly food for thought.

    I’m actually not convinced he did the wrong thing though, although perhaps not for the right reasons, his ego getting the better of him. I.e. I’m sure he was right that the lady could still inspire her granddaughter with her life, right? I get the point though. It’s a chance to take and maybe be his decision to make. The fact it’s not entirely clear cut either way is part of what makes the story great.

    Oh and I loved the bit with the rocket booster robot with the key. Hee, hee. And that ghostly shape with the familiar face. What could that mean? ;)

    #106156
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I’m not happy that the first 40 minutes were essentially told in the trailer – and I think even if I hadn’t seen that, I’d think it was taking far too long to get to a point that even I would have figured out ages ago. You needed more there. Also, as in The Fires of Pompeii, I’m still unconvinced about the whole “fixed points in time” stuff, which feels less like organic drama, and more like trying to fix the inconsistencies behind the concept of the Doctor changing things in the first place… which I think would be better left ignored, rather than reminding everyone of it. (WHY are certain things fixed, and others not? *Everything* has consequences…)

    Last 20 minutes were spectacular, though – and yes, relentlessly grim. (The shot of that trapped woman with the water pouring all over her is truly fucking nasty.) Would have preferred the Doctor not to realise he’s gone mad, but I can’t imagine they would ever have dared to leave it like that, really.

    #106157
    JamesTC
    Participant

    The show now has the stability to do something like that, to show the Doctor evil now will just intrest the viewers more, sadly in the 80s the show was nto stable enough to show a less than likable Doctor (well until you get to know him!).

    #106160
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    Ok my thought on the episode were this, it was good, quite enjoyable but nowhere near as good as i expected it to be or as good as some past episodes/specials have been. I thought the whole issue of the Dr struggling with his inner feelings about whether to intervene or not quite interesting and the storyline was fairly good. The things that let it down for me were that i never feel the Dr works particularly well without a sidekick and also the ending was strange.

    Where had this strange cocky Dr come from? It would have been understandable if the Dr had been changing into this throughout the recent specials but it was completely out of the blue and i think they have shoved it in there just to fit in with some storyline coming up and because David Tenant is leaving.

    HOWEVER how exciting was the xmas trailer! I knew the master would be back!!

    #106161
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    and furthermore i wouldn’t give a crap if my granddaughter never went into space no way would i be spolding my brains out with me own gun!

    #106162
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    and furthermore i wouldn’t give a crap if my granddaughter never went into space no way would i be splodging my brains out with me own gun!

    #106163
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    and furthermore i wouldn’t give a crap if my granddaughter never went into space no way would i be splodging my brains out with me own gun!

    #106165
    Ridley
    Participant

    Would have preferred the Doctor not to realise he?s gone mad, but I can?t imagine they would ever have dared to leave it like that, really.

    I thought that’s how it was going to end. With the tenth needing to die because he’s become dangerous. Would have been better than an Ood.

    and furthermore i wouldn?t give a crap if my granddaughter never went into space no way would i be spolding my brains out with me own gun!

    I didn’t even realise she did that. I thought she’d been blipped by the laws of time reasserting itself.

    #106166
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Where had this strange cocky Dr come from?

    With the sudden realistation that he no longer gave a crap about the “laws”, brought upon by hearing lots of innocent people dying.

    >Also, as in The Fires of Pompeii, I?m still unconvinced about the whole ?fixed points in time? stuff, which feels less like organic drama, and more like trying to fix the inconsistencies behind the concept of the Doctor changing things in the first place? which I think would be better left ignored, rather than reminding everyone of it.

    Agreed, it makes bugger-all sense. At least it was kind of questioned by Adelaide when she scoffed at his comment that he’d only saved “unimportant” people in the past. Also, what happened the Reapers?

    >and furthermore i wouldn?t give a crap if my granddaughter never went into space no way would i be splodging my brains out with me own gun!

    I had no problems with this part of the ending, especially since it was inevitable (even if it jarred slightly that the Doctor would think it would be a good idea to take the survivors to 2059 rather than somewhere else). Essentially, what it’s saying is what’s more important; your life or your legacy.

    #106167
    JamesTC
    Participant

    The robot got really wet with the weird water, at the end of the story it was on earth. Hmm, not one drop eh?

    #106169
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >The robot got really wet with the weird water, at the end of the story it was on earth. Hmm, not one drop eh?

    Yes! I thought of that during the scene, but I forgot about it shortly afterwards.

    I thought maybe the fact that the robot was outside in the harsh environment of Mars on the way to the Tardis would render the organism inert. It’s very cold remember, and the ‘water’ needs bodies with weird alien fission to function. Of course, back in the tardis it would heat up… but maybe it was dead then? (It survivied in the glacier though didn’t it? Ho, hum.)

    >Where had this strange cocky Dr come from?

    Tenants Doctor has always had a cocky streak hasn’t he? He took it to a whole arrogant new level this time though. It made sense to me though. A major theme of new Who (and possibly old, although I haven’t seen enough to say for sure) is that he need his companions to ground himself. Whenver he loses them he goes a way to the dark side. Forgive the clich?.

    >and furthermore i wouldn?t give a crap if my granddaughter never went into space no way would i be spolding my brains out with me own gun!

    It was a bit extreme but it’s not just about her granddaughter going into space. She is responsible for leading humanity out to the stars. In short, by taking his decision, the Doctor was taking a chance with the future of humanity to satisfy the present. It’s of course quite possible she would go ahead and do that anyway. As the Doctor said “You can inspire her fact to face now.” but I don’t think it’s a chance she was willing to take. And she might have a point since even a member of the most homicidal species in the universe wouldn’t kill her.*

    *Incidentally I didn’t know the daleks had that level of understanding concerning the time-lines! Then again they’re time travellers…

    #106177
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    > Incidentally I didn?t know the daleks had that level of understanding concerning the time-lines! Then again they?re time travellers?

    See “Remembrance of the Daleks” for reference.

    #106179
    Nick R
    Participant

    Petetranterssister:

    The things that let it down for me were that i never feel the Dr works particularly well without a sidekick

    What did you think of “Midnight”?

    Where had this strange cocky Dr come from? It would have been understandable if the Dr had been changing into this throughout the recent specials but it was completely out of the blue and i think they have shoved it in there just to fit in with some storyline coming up and because David Tenant is leaving.

    I thought it made sense. His rant about how being Last Of The Time Lords puts him in charge of the laws of time came across as both his way of justifying intervening, and also psyching himself up to think of a way out. (It’s also a nice little example of what I believe TV Tropes refers to as a “Crowning Moment of Awesome” – or at least it would have been if his shouting hadn’t been drowned out by the music!) And then his cockiness afterwards was smugness at the fact that this way of thinking had worked, and glee at the thought that he can now go back and intervene in all sorts of other disasters that he’d previously regarded as “fixed”.

    OK, his use of the phrase “little people” wasn’t the most subtle way of getting across the point that a Tenth Doctor with that much power and that reckless could become a very dangerous character, despite his good intentions. But generally, the Doctor’s behaviour in that bit didn’t bother me.

    No, it was a different bit of the ending that didn’t add up. Adelaide’s logic for committing suicide was to minimise changes to the future timeline. But no matter what story the two other survivors told, getting from Mars to Earth within a day of the accident (without any trace of the spaceship they used) would prompt some pretty big questions. And having a mother who committed suicide on Earth rather than vanishing on Mars could have some big effects on her daughter’s desire to explore the universe.

    All in all, not a very reliable way to ensure that future history stays intact…

    #106182
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    I actually thought Midnight was a weal episode too in my opinion, there just feels like there is something missing when the Dr is alone. He needs a ying to his yang me thinks!.

    But no matter how much i diss Midnight and Waters of Mars they were both better than Boom Town that episode sucked majorly!.

    I agree with someone elses comment further up though that the Dr does change when he doesn’t have a sidekick around and i suppose when you think back when the Dr was Christopher Eccleston he was quite different then, with a lot of anger at times and no empathy and it was Rose who taught him to have a sympathetic side.
    So maybe he does have an undiscovered dark side and i suppose someone can only travel space and time for so long without going doolally!

    Nickr – i thought that too, wouldn’t the world wonder how on earth three people who were on a Mars base suddenly appear back on earth?
    Also i think she was stupid to shoot herself! Obviously if events had of stayed as they should and she had blown herself up on mars her grand daughter would have gone into space, theres an equally good chance she would have done the same if she had done as the doctor said and inspired her face to face, but who wants to take after their loopy granny that duched their own brains out?

    #106183
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I actually thought Midnight was a weal episode too in my opinion, there just feels like there is something missing when the Dr is alone. He needs a ying to his yang me thinks!.

    I respect your opinion, but you’re wrong.

    But no matter how much i diss Midnight and Waters of Mars they were both better than Boom Town that episode sucked majorly!.

    This, too, is wrong.

    I agree with someone elses comment further up though that the Dr does change when he doesn?t have a sidekick around and i suppose when you think back when the Dr was Christopher Eccleston he was quite different then, with a lot of anger at times and no empathy and it was Rose who taught him to have a sympathetic side.
    So maybe he does have an undiscovered dark side and i suppose someone can only travel space and time for so long without going doolally!

    The First Doctor verged on darkness at times – he effectively kidnaps his first companions, and in his second story he attempts to kill an injured caveman by hitting him on the head with a rock so that they don’t have to bother giving him medical attention. The Fourth Doctor had a dark side, which mostly came out in his sense of humour. So did the Sixth Doctor, who was an arrogant arsehole who willfully tried to kill one of his companions by strangling her. The Seventh Doctor started off clownish but got progressively darker as his tenture went on.

    There has always been an element of darkness to the character.

    #106184
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    I thought he should have taken Adelaide’s body and put her back on Mars, to keep things as similar as possible, but there we go. He has probably cracked after all those centuries, seeing so many things, all the beauty and all the pain of the universe is too much for one mind… plus all the doctors are essentially *him*, right, so having a new body isn’t going to erase all the inner darkness…

    #106185
    JamesTC
    Participant

    ‘The Deadly Assasin’ and ‘The Waters of Mars’ are proof enough that the Doctor doesn’t always need a companion in every story, I think it is a nice change now and again to have the Doctor going around alone.

    #106186
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    plus all the doctors are essentially *him*, right, so having a new body isn?t going to erase all the inner darkness?

    The actual rules of regeneration are very sketchy and changeable, but there’s been a sense before that it works as a rejuvenation of the mind as well as the body. Hence the slightly mental behaviour of the Fifth, Sixth and Tenth Doctors immediately after regeneration. I guess it’s entirely up to whoever’s in charge at the time as to what exactly the regeneration does – other than Nine > Ten and Jacobi > Simm, I don’t think there’s ever been two regenerations that work the same way.

    #106187
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Yeah, the way I’ve always understood it is the Doctor has a certain amount of overriding personalities that survive from one life to the next (making him the same man) but he has other aspects that sometimes lie dormant, sometimes are a small part of his character and sometimes dominate. For example, The Doctor’s always had moderate physic powers, but they were used more prominently with the Seventh.

    So his darkness has always been there but sometimes it crops up more forcefully until it’s tamed by a regeneration.

    #106188

    Everything from ‘Rose’ onwards has been building to that moment in WoM where he finally snapped. OK it sort of happened in ‘The Runaway Bride’ as well but Donna was there to bring him back down

    Now we’ve got a Doctor where ‘coward, every time’ doesn’t apply. The 9th Doctor was in a dark place but Ten has gone beyond that, out of anger, frustration, panic, sheer desperation. The cocky exterior has always been a mask.

    #106189
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Whta I’m curious about what Ten meant by “Is this it, it this my death”, is he talking about a straight death or a regeneration because it seems like he believes he will DIE by which I mean no regeneration.

    #106190
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    It’s easy to take it as outright death, but I think there’s a strong sense that the Doctor simply doesn’t want to stop being this incarnation – think of the fact that he, for the first time, wilfully stopped himself from fully regenerating when it would have been easier simply to do so.

    (incidentally, in recalling that scene, can I say how much I like Jack’s reaction to the “fake” regeneration? “You know what comes next… good luck, Doctor!” I just think it’s a lovely moment, is all.)

    So at the moment, in his current state of mind, not being Ten any more almost seems like a fate as bad as, if not worse than, death. I think it’s pretty clever writing by RTD, actually – it’s a bit self-referential, in that he’s acknowledging the fact that Tennant has such a tenuous grip on the role in both fan- and general-public-consciousness…

    #106191
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >for the first time, wilfully stopped himself from fully regenerating when it would have been easier simply to do so.

    ‘Caves of Androzani’. He is about to regenerate on that ship, we see his eventual regeneration effect but he stops it with enough time to save Peri and then he regenerates.

    #106192
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    I suppose if we assume the existence of a soul, or just consciousness, then that it was lasts over regenerations. Certain personality traits can be the cause of physical brain activity, yada yada ;)… why was one of the Ood there?

    #106194
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >why was one of the Ood there?

    I took it to be sort of a message sent by Ood Sigma through time to tell him it is the end, he was the guy who told him his song would end.

    #106195
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Ood Sigma is The Rani.

    #106196
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Rose is the Rani. It’s in the name, they are practically 25% similar.

    #106197
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Rani out of TSJA is the Rani.

    #106198
    JamesTC
    Participant

    ‘The Three Ranis’

    #106202
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Five Rani and It.

    #106204
    Petetranterssister
    Participant

    Okie Doke Ben thanks for the comments but i’ll still stick to what i’ve said about the weak episodes, i understand everyone has their own favourites and ones they dont like, boomtown and midnight are mine.

    and i dont like the old dr whos only the new ones from christopher eccleston onwards so i have no knowledge of what the others are like but now i know:)

    #106205
    Dave
    Participant

    Rani The Champion Of The World

    #106208
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    The Knights who say raNi!

    #106210
    Somebody
    Participant

    It?s easy to take it as outright death, but I think there?s a strong sense that the Doctor simply doesn?t want to stop being this incarnation – think of the fact that he, for the first time, wilfully stopped himself from fully regenerating when it would have been easier simply to do so.

    Not really. One and Five definitely fought it until they lost consciousness, while Three and Seven were also unconscious when it happened (okay, Seven was technically dead, but that doesn’t defeat the point) and Two was forcibly regenerated as a punishment (almost like an execution in some ways. And I sort of wonder at this point if that’s going to be Ten’s ultimate fate…). Since we didn’t properly see Six or Eight, only Four (definitely) and Nine (arguably, since he was trying to comfort Rose) can be said to have taken it with any sort of calm.

    Ten was simply the only one with the MEANS to stop it. Which I found dodgy – if a Time Lord is healed BEFORE their body changes, why is completion automatic? Surely the healing should be PART of the change…

    Either way, he should really be on his tenth regeneration (effectively the Eleventh Doctor, albeit with a direct continuation of Ten’s body and persona) by now.

    #106211

    > The Knights who say raNi!

    The most epic of epic wins this board has ever witnessed.

    #106213
    Dave
    Participant

    >all the beauty and all the pain of the universe is too much for one mind?

    Nicely put

    #106217
    Phil1034
    Participant

    > ?Caves of Androzani?. He is about to regenerate on that ship, we see his eventual regeneration effect but he stops it with enough time to save Peri and then he regenerates.

    Really? I must have missed that.

    #106221
    JamesTC
    Participant

    It is oddly subtle but it is there.

    #106222
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    > I respect your opinion, but you?re wrong.
    > This, too, is wrong.

    Always amuses me when someone puts the words “opinion” and “wrong” into the same sentance… seeing it is impossible for an opinion to be wrong, as it’s merely an opinion, not a statement of fact.

    For me Midnight was a dire episode, and the only one ever where I’ve felt myself physically nodding off half way through. The problem with it, isn’t the Doctor being alone, it is that the plot drags beyond belief… plus the ‘monster’ ain’t all that wonderful ontop.

    Most of the time psychological villains work 10 times better than ones who are in your face… but this one didn’t work at all [in my opinion].

    #106227
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Always amuses me when someone puts the words ?opinion? and ?wrong? into the same sentance? seeing it is impossible for an opinion to be wrong, as it?s merely an opinion, not a statement of fact.

    Always amuses me when someone doesn’t understand the concept of “exaggeration for effect”. Or when they don’t understand that the word “wrong” has multiple meanings.

    #106229
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    He’s right though.

    #106231
    Dave
    Participant

    >Really? I must have missed that.

    You can be forgiven for that, it’s at the end of Part Three. The visual effect that will later play over the regeneration is seen and he sort of shakes it off, the casual audience would never have known what it was.

    #106233
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >He?s right though.

    About Midnight?

    Shut up, Karl.

    #106235
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Anyone who doesn’t like Midnight is a lameo. My opinion, there.

    #106237
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Na I just thought if wrong had different meanings, then surely right would do to ;-)

    As for Midnight, blaaaaaah. It’s over-rated. Lots of people shouting at each other doesn’t equate to good acting for me. However I’ve only watched it the once so I may appreciate it more second time around.

    #106241
    Julian Hazeldine
    Participant

    >only one ever where I?ve felt myself physically nodding off half way through.

    Going out on a limb here, but I get the impression you’ve never seen Black Orchid.

    #106243
    John Hoare
    Participant

    plus the ?monster? ain?t all that wonderful ontop.

    The monster is not the point of that episode – it’s the people’s reaction to it.

    Midnight is the best non-finale script RTD has written, in my opinion. (If you don’t count Rose, which is a bit of a special case.)

    #106244
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Going out on a limb here, but I get the impression you?ve never seen Black Orchid.

    I Heart Julian.

    #106245
    JamesTC
    Participant

    ‘Black Orchid’? Obviously you haven’t gotten to ‘The Web Planet’ yet, I sat through all ten episodes of ‘The War Games’ in one go, it took me four sittings to get through ‘The Web Planet’.

    #106247
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I see over 9 million people watched WOM!

    #106250
    Andrew
    Participant

    I’m a huge fan of the Pompeii story, but I actually though WoM mistakenly reworked the ‘fixed points in time’ concept…and not wholly for the better.

    The dialogue in FoP heavily presents the understanding of these fixed points as a curse the Time Lords have to bear. Not something practical – not simply knowledge of history and awareness of cause and effect, not something you get from a reference book – but a literal type of perception. The Time Lords, being not just human, have a form of sensory input that shows the universe to them in a way the rest of us don’t see.

    I really, really liked that. It justified the name of the species, suggested that Time Lord isn’t just a title given to two-hearted humanoids with great resources, it’s a from-birth, species-wide name that literally describes something about their physiology. Plus it comes with inherent sadness, a real Cassandra complex that justifies the Time Lords’ arrogance due to a necessary distance. It being too painful to look someone in the eye and know they have to die.

    By extension, it clarifies the Doctor’s specialness. The one Time Lord who forgoes his own emotional pain and wades into time with abandon, knowing he’ll come across these fixed moments but pushing onwards regardless.

    WoM’s dialogue suggested something less interesting. that it’s ‘just’ knowledge – the product of seeing, reading and hearing – and then coupled it with the same problem I have with Turn Left: that the universe turns on tiny, single moments. The destruction of the Mars base, the death (or not) of various red shirts, isn’t the crux of fate – it’s the death of one woman, the influence that has. While the butterfly effect’s valid SF fodder, and makes total sense to me, the Doctor’s constant travelling sees LOADS of history change every episode…and Time always compensates.

    I’m not sure I buy the importance of that one character’s death to the future of humanity. Not when there are always ambitious, motivated people looking to make discoveries.

    Which is to say: FoP is a ‘major disaster versus global disaster’ thing. WoM is a ‘we might not discover some space stuff quite as soon as we otherwise would’ story. And I’m never sure that works especially well in Who. Even though, in fact, the final result – that the Doctor truly is powerless to change those fixed moments – is the same.

    (Not that I’m down on the episode overall, mind you.)

    #106251
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Thinking about it, the ending to WOM is a little like the ending to ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’, the Doctor turning dark and doing what he normally wouldn’t do, in one case destroy Skaro, in another change time (and cause a suicide).

    #106260
    Dave
    Participant

    >the ending to WOM is a little like the ending to ?Remembrance of the Daleks?, the Doctor turning dark and doing what he normally wouldn?t do, in one case destroy Skaro, in another change time (and cause a suicide).

    In a sense they are both suicides. Skaro wouldn’t have died if the Daleks hadn’t used the Hand of Omega, alright yes the Doctor has reprogrammed it, but still.

    The Doctor didn’t cause Adelaide’s suicide in the last ten minutes of The Waters Of Mars, he caused it all the way through by talking about the weight of a history as yet unmade.

    #106265
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Considering fixed points in time, I was wondering if it’s the changing of such instances which causes the Reapers to come. (Although they didn’t this time. Buth then the lady killed herself before that could happen.) I.e. to nullify the paradox, so to speak, set the timeline back on course. More or less.

    When Rose’s father died, was that counted as a ‘fixed point in time’? That being said, it’s doubtful her father’s life would make a major change in the timeline. In fact they seemed to suggest that from the point where her father where her father was saved, a pocket universe was spawned, said universe being sterilised by the reapers. So I assume then that the rest of the universe continued on as normal then…

    So maybe the reapers are just a personal timeline paradox thing then…

    #106270
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >When Rose?s father died, was that counted as a ?fixed point in time??

    Well, I guess the in-show explanation could be that yes, it was…because of how much it affected Rose, leading to her joining the Doctor and ultimately saving the universe.

    #106271
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Well, I guess the in-show explanation could be that yes, it was?because of how much it affected Rose, leading to her joining the Doctor and ultimately saving the universe.

    Hmmm. Yes. that makes sense. I was thinking that she still retained her original memories after saving him, but then she’d have been eaten by the Reapers in the pocket-verse wouldn’t she? It was her fathers sacrifice which set things back again, and her free.

    #106274
    Julian Hazeldine
    Participant

    Paul Cornell is on record as saying that the Reapers don?t come each time the universe?s history is changed- they?d show up in every Doctor Who story if that was the case. Alterations to the timeline give them strength, but the key factor in Father?s Day was the presence of two Doctors and Roses in the same place, and the elimination of one of those sets. This was what weakened the fabric of reality to let them through.

    #106281
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Ahhhhh.

    #106286
    si
    Participant

    Why all the palaver about the robot getting the key in the lock? Surely the Doctor could’ve just clicked his fingers?

    #106287
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Actually it is about time the Doctor had a remote control for the Tardis isn’t it? Actually, maybe not. It would resolve a lot of problems way too easily.

    I quite liked the zippy robot (not the annoying ‘gadget,gadget’ thing they say) although it was a little convenient that it happened to be stored in that particular area. Not that it bothers me much…

    I liked all the silliness of managing to put the key in on the first try. Hee, hee.

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