Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum BtE Episode 1 – The OTHER Directors Cut

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  • #3374
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    I promise this is the last youtube video i’ll do on BtE! …..

    Phil did his, so it would be rude of me not go have a go. My directors cut of ep 1 of BtE.

    As it says on the Youtube description, this is NOT me saying this one is better, just trying to tighten up episode 1 big time and because i fancied dicking around a bit. Plus i wanted Norman Lovett in there just so i could kill him off.

    Opinions welcome :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vNy1CWtniw&fmt=18

    #97016
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    That opening is SOOO much better.

    #97019
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Watched first couple of minutes…so far seems good, though cutting out Kryten’s post-card and explanation of where he is makes Listers “surf boy back from broom town” line nonsensical.

    #97020
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    >Watched first couple of minutes?so far seems good, though cutting out Kryten?s post-card and explanation of where he is makes Listers ?surf boy back from broom town? line nonsensical.

    Yeah Thought this, but then also thought that Kryten saying ‘What a vacation sirs’ would let the audience know that Kryten has been on holiday (plus the stupid hat and hawaiian shirt) and where else would Kryters go for a holiday other than the broom cupboard. Yes i know it’s not perfect, but it’s better than nout :)

    #97021
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Oooh, the cutting of Rimmers shaking hands bit improves the scene no end.

    Good stuff!

    #97028
    Turk Thrust
    Participant

    Yeah, excellent opening. I think you made it pretty much as good as it could be. Just a shame that some of the bits which I find cringeworthy need to be in there to make it make any sort of sense.

    #97029
    si
    Participant

    The Holly bit was particularly well presented, I thought.

    #97038
    Phil
    Participant

    >Phil did his, so it would be rude of me not go have a go

    IT SURE WOULD HAVE BEEN. :)

    edit:
    Wow. Obviously enough (from my cut, natch) there are a few remaining unwelcome lines that I assume must have amused you more than they amused me. But this is really well done.

    And the Holly gag, in addition to being effing well done, was also hilarious. Great job on this man.

    edit edit:
    Do you plan on doing all three? I’m not going to press you to do so, as it is a lot of work, but if you do decide to work your way through the other two, I’d be excited to see how they turn out.

    It’s fascinating to me the differences in what we thought was cut-worthy. Seeing it in action is very different than seeing it in your head, and this turned out pretty great.

    #97072
    Dessie
    Participant

    Having the grave scene open the episode is very good. And the Holly bit gave a very strong sense of nostalgia which made it all feel very classic Dwarf. I’d still prefer the longer episodes to a cut down version but those two opening touches are really good and i would love them to be in the final version.

    #97073
    Richey
    Participant

    I want to see your edit of Part 2 and Part 3 now, because your edit of part 1 is hillariously good work. A massive improvement for me, Stabby.

    #97074
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    >Wow. Obviously enough (from my cut, natch) there are a few remaining unwelcome lines that I assume must have amused you more than they amused me. But this is really well done.

    Which ones in particular? There were a few i really didn’t like, like Krytens ‘ooh i already am packed’ line, but getting rid of them would have screwed up continuity. In that jokes case, with that line taken out, Lister motions to cat but without Kryten accepting the mission beforehand it just doesn’t seem right.

    >I want to see your edit of Part 2 and Part 3 now, because your edit of part 1 is hillariously good work. A massive improvement for me, Stabby.

    Ha well if you liked it, i consider it a great success. Thanks :)

    #97075
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Lister motions to cat but without Kryten accepting the mission beforehand it just doesn?t seem right.

    I considered this, but Kryten tends to do what he’s told.

    #97076
    Phil
    Participant

    >Krytens ?ooh i already am packed? line

    That’s the very line. I think that whole end bit can be snipped off as it’s already clear what they’re about to do, and nothing particularly funny or important is relayed to the audience.

    Not trying to give you advice or anything…far from it, as what you’ve got is an enormous improvement, and very impressive in itself; I’m just fascinated by the differences. Great job.

    #97077
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    >I considered this, but Kryten tends to do what he?s told.

    True. A cut for the inevitable Re-mastered version maybe ha :)

    >That?s the very line. I think that whole end bit can be snipped off as it?s already clear what they?re about to do, and nothing particularly funny or important is relayed to the audience.

    Again very true. I did try cutting the end of that scene, but it just seems like with that bit cut the Cat never really has that much of a chance to shine in that first episode. Yes he has that whole speech at the beginning, and i tried to get rid of as much of that as possible, but none of it was that funny or very catty, whereas the last part was quite catty and very well delivered, so thought it should stay in.

    #97078
    Turk Thrust
    Participant

    Agree about that line. Also in an ideal world I would like Lister`s `that`s not right` lines cut because they just seem so wrong coming out of his mouth. That would probably mean that it wouldn`t make sense though.

    #97104
    pfm
    Participant

    I think Lister’s line there is to let viewers know they’re in deep space.

    #97106
    SkyAndSun
    Participant

    I wasn’t keen on the tweaks you made – changing the music, for instance, or cutting away from Lister staring the grave – as I felt they were unnecessary or detrimental. But cutting the first scene with the sneezes really works.

    #97107
    Somebody
    Participant

    Just watched the opening couple of minutes, and I’ve gone from “fairly sure” to “utterly convinced” that the grave scene should have been pre-titles after seeing you actually do it. Putting it there accomplishes three things:
    1) It manages the viewers’ expectations better, as it’s both more in-line with the tone of what’s to come, and gives an important plot point to the viewers straight off the bat rather than burying it in mid-ep
    2) It tidies up the transition to the follow-up scene in the bunkroom enormously – originally, that was virtually a jump cut
    3) It deletes the “ironing” scene, which is both pretty much a complete failure in what it aims to do (“be funny”) and doesn’t give any particularly useful exposition for later that isn’t covered adequately by other scenes.

    Liked the Holly bit as well (“Audience laughter generator down… LOL”). I’ll watch the rest later, especially if you do the whole thing…

    #97108
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    >Audience laughter generator down? LOL

    This. Also, now that you have it looking more like a traditional episode, I found the audience even more consipicuously absent. Go on, stabby, do the other episodes!

    #97123
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Rather enjoyable, I’d say.

    #97155
    EvoFan
    Participant

    Fan-Smeggin tastic! Loved it :)

    I noticed you put BBC on the intro tho?

    #97156
    SkyAndSun
    Participant

    Maybe this indicates that Doug needs a good editor; someone who’s not afraid to tell him what needs to go. Or an equal writing partner.

    I feel I should point out that I still thoroughly enjoyed BTE as broadcast.

    #97161
    Nick R
    Participant

    I like this fan edit. Beginning with the grave scene means you can introduce the Cat straight away and get the plot moving as fast as it would have in one of the old episodes. The jokes aren’t changed, but trimming the time between them makes it all feel funnier.

    Well done for making the “it was big” joke work!

    …But then again you trimmed Rimmer’s list of things they’ll need to take with them! Booo. :(

    It’d be great to be able to keep the corridor special effects shot as the opening, but Lister’s chuckling obviously means it can’t go directly before the grave scene.

    (Incidentally, I wonder what the reaction would have been if the episode had opened with Lister singing Ganymede & Titan – perhaps the second verse, Lunar City Seven – while he walked down the corridor? It would have fitted with all the other fanservice…)

    Just watched the opening couple of minutes, and I?ve gone from ?fairly sure? to ?utterly convinced? that the grave scene should have been pre-titles after seeing you actually do it. Putting it there accomplishes three things:
    1) It manages the viewers? expectations better, as it?s both more in-line with the tone of what?s to come, and gives an important plot point to the viewers straight off the bat rather than burying it in mid-ep
    2) It tidies up the transition to the follow-up scene in the bunkroom enormously – originally, that was virtually a jump cut
    3) It deletes the ?ironing? scene, which is both pretty much a complete failure in what it aims to do (?be funny?) and doesn?t give any particularly useful exposition for later that isn?t covered adequately by other scenes.

    I completely agree with all these reasons. Then again, if it had actually been broadcast like that I’d probably still find some reason to complain…

    #97164
    Muzzy
    Participant

    That works pretty well. Think the title sequence might be the best achievement though. Really good, well done.

    #97191
    Richey
    Participant

    Stabby – just watched it again. You must do parts 2 and 3…please! This version works so much better, the comic timing is better and it shows that the material (of episode 1 at least) was good, but simply needed proper editing. Don’t know if parts 2 and 3 will be a similar case, but damn I’m impressed with your work here.

    #97194
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    >Stabby – just watched it again. You must do parts 2 and 3?please! This version works so much better, the comic timing is better and it shows that the material (of episode 1 at least) was good, but simply needed proper editing. Don?t know if parts 2 and 3 will be a similar case, but damn I?m impressed with your work here.

    Thanks v.much. I will endeavour to have a go when i’ve got the time.

    By the way i’ve added annotations to the video to show exactly what is changed if people are interested. No Andrew Ellard style jokey subtitles though, i just don’t have the wit!

    #97213
    Somebody
    Participant

    Some semi-random comments that occurred to me as I watched the whole thing (none of the following is intended maliciously, or to imply that I hated it – I think it works quite well, and almost certainly better than the original. It’s intended to be constructive):

    1) Music on the first scene – I would have used the Observation Dome music from “Better Than Life”, and faded it out a tad earlier. [The choice you picked is fine – but I would still have faded it as Lister starts speaking rather than after.] Either way, the extra M&E certainly helped, and I’d have liked some more ship noise later.

    2) The airlock noise doesn’t really make any sense – look at the wide shot near the start, and it’s pretty clear there IS no airlock :)

    3) The trims to the Lister/Cat/Rimmer scene are appreciated

    4) The trim between “oh my gosh” and “Hey this thing…” feels off – it definitely sticks out on a technical level more than the earlier trims. [Plus, I didn’t actually mind that bit – the “me & the cat are gonna die” seemed to me like Lister winding Kryten up further]. Similarly, I’d have rather just left Rimmer’s list of stuff they’ll need in – the cut is more jarring than the original line, and it seems more typical of Rimmer to go into all the details.

    5) Could you really not have lost the “I already AM packed?” If you cut to Lister just before his hand goes up, along with the fact that you’re cutting to Lister ANYWAY rather than going straight back to a wide shot, I’m sure it could have worked.

    6) The fade-to/from-black at the original ad point didn’t jar at all for me, actually (although if you’d felt it was that bad, you could have cut to an exterior shot of the Dwarf – since you use the original credits pass, you could even have used another of the original beauty passes for that)

    7) Yeah, the squid/dance stuff needed tightened

    8) Structurally, Katerina’s arrival is probably a better ending point than where they did, especially given how awkward the beginning of ep 2 is, and how little she’s in that episode – but it feels like a cheat to bump material back into part 2.

    9) I think that an “End of part 1” break-sting would have made more sense than using the full minute-long credits for a nine & a half minute “episode”.

    Zombie Jim Undead / Thu, 2009-04-16 09:58 / #
    Watched first couple of minutes?so far seems good, though cutting out Kryten?s post-card and explanation of where he is makes Listers ?surf boy back from broom town? line nonsensical.

    The very prominent “I ? The Broom Cupboard” sticker on his briefcase, which is pointed directly at camera for an extended time, isn’t a clue?

    #97222
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Comments very very welcome, ta very much….

    >1) Music on the first scene – I would have used the Observation Dome music from ?Better Than Life?

    Thought about this. But i don’t know, in this modern Dwarf that music just seems old fashioned somehow. Plus my Series 2 DVD was a bad pressing so i couldn’t get a copy off of it anyway as Disk 2 doesn’t work :(

    >2) The airlock noise doesn?t really make any sense – look at the wide shot near the start, and it?s pretty clear there IS no airlock :)

    So where the hell does Cat come from then? Ha. That sound effect doesn’t make much sense, but i think it makes more sense than the original scene because the Cat does just appear from nowhere. And it’s clear he jumped from somewhere lol.

    > the cut is more jarring than the original line, and it seems more typical of Rimmer to go into all the details.

    But it seems untypical of Rimmer to actually know all that stuff. Remember this is the Rimmer who has failed his exams however many number of times and knows bugger all about anything other than cleaning up clogged vending machines, it just seems uncharacteristic that he’d know all that stuff.

    >5) Could you really not have lost the ?I already AM packed?? If you cut to Lister just before his hand goes up, along with the fact that you?re cutting to Lister ANYWAY rather than going straight back to a wide shot, I?m sure it could have worked.

    I did try and remove that bit, but continuity was screwed up whenever i tried it because Lister would suddenly from one shot to another be looking in a completely different direction for no reason, and even if i did get the continuity right it just seems odd that Lister would suddenly motion to Cat with no feed line from anybody else. It was the lesser of two evils to keep it in.

    9) I think that an ?End of part 1? break-sting would have made more sense than using the full minute-long credits for a nine & a half minute ?episode?.

    Definitely. But i’m a sucker for those end credits, so sue me :P

    Comments very welcome again by the way. Cheers.

    #97223
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    > it just seems uncharacteristic that he?d know all that stuff.

    Yes and no. Rimmer has been known to pull some pretty capable stuff out of his ass and be downright professional when necessity (read, the plot depending entirely on it) occurred. I cite bodyswap where he is fixing the wiring problem and appears to be getting pretty well until Lister gets hungry. But it happens more frequently in the later episodes. It’s not *usual*, but not impossible.

    #97226
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Fair point :)

    #97244
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Hey Stabby

    Excellent fan edit so far mate, your version is pacier and sharper than the original. The grave scene works far better as a pre title sequence. I would have maybe tightened some of the diving bell stuff a wee bit more, but that’s me just being picky. It’s a shame there’s no real way around cutting out Katerina – as pretty as she is, she’s pretty much superfluous to the plot, but moving the ‘cliffhanger’ to her arrival works really well.

    Kudos, my cap is doffed etc etc

    #97281
    Zombie Jim Undead
    Participant

    Having rewatched this with the annotations, I must say that you did a superb job.

    I don’t know if I like it more than the original, but the pace of it certainly feels more like old-school Dwarf. Plus you’ve removed nearly all of the duff bits.

    Good show. Would love you to do the other parts, join it all together and whack it up for download somewhere on the web.

    #97394
    Dave
    Participant

    I’m really impressed, well done. It’s tighter in all the right places.

    I’m a little fascinated by gladriel69’s comment:

    “I assume you cut the Monkey Boy line because you thought it was racist? I’m sure the actors would have complained if they thought it was. Also, its clearly in relation to humans evolving from apes, not skin colour. I will add though, as an aspiring writer I would have avoided it for fear of offending the odd one or two people who would get it wrong – you have been a valuable lesson, cheers.”

    What?

    #97396
    Turk Thrust
    Participant

    > I?m a little fascinated by gladriel69?s comment:

    >?I assume you cut the Monkey Boy line because you thought >it was racist? I?m sure the actors would have complained >if they thought it was. Also, its clearly in relation to >humans evolving from apes, not skin colour. I will add >though, as an aspiring writer I would have avoided it for >fear of offending the odd one or two people who would get >it wrong – you have been a valuable lesson, cheers.?

    >What?

    Yes, that is an interesting comment to say the least.

    The stuff in the early series probably wouldn`t be done now maybe but this guy`s interpretation is bizarre.

    #97404
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Long time lurker, but have just registered primarily to say

    1) this edit is first rate
    2) please please please do the other three parts
    3) please please please stash the completed work somewhere as a DIVX or other media file from which one could author a DVD.

    If you did 2 & 3, I personally would add your version of BtE to my collection as my “definitive” version. Fine work.

    #97405
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Thanks Loccy. I hope i get time to do Ep2 and 3 at some point.

    > I?m a little fascinated by gladriel69?s comment:

    Ha i know, i’ve just replied to it. Even if i did think that (which i didn’t, i just cut it because i thought the joke was a bit cringeworthy) surely it wouldn’t be racist as they’re both black?

    #99205
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Sorry to bring up an old thread, but Episode 2 Part 1 is up. Less edits here, more observations too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpOdPh5BNHk&fmt=18

    #99217
    Stabbim the Skutter
    Participant

    Loving it so far, and I have a request – could you move the “Killing Katerina” scene to before the bus journey, rather than after it? It just seems a bit odd that she’s somehow travelled that distance from the dimension hole and even gotten there before the others.

    I suppose at the end of the day it’s a hallucination, so it doesn’t have to make sense. But it would be a nice edit. :)

    #99218
    pfm
    Participant

    You’ve had your fun and that’s all that matters. Bye, girls!

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