Let’s Talk About Back To Earth Part Two

Here’s a brand new discussion thread, right in front of your fat, stupid, weaselly faces. You know the score – use this page to post your comments during and immediately after the episode, and we’ll mention a few of them during the podcast. Once again, comments will paginate when they get to 200. Incoming!

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425 Responses to Let’s Talk About Back To Earth Part Two

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  1. #new doesn’t work in paginated threads.

    Have fun, everyone… See you next week.

  2. > #new doesn?t work in paginated threads.

    ‘Tis really annoying.

  3. When it gets to the second page, try ?page=1#new at the end. That works.

    Although you’d think Drupal would put the right link on the front page! Duh!

  4. I thought it was good. Glad The Inquisitor came back.

    Though I don’t think that we actually needed to see Rimmer’s anus.

  5. I thought Bus to Earth was ok. Lee Evans was good, but it was a bit too much like Smith and Jones meets Midnight to be that interesting.

    Thankfully It’s not the most interesting TV Sci Fi on easter Saturday.

    Car Bug is about to land. It’s better than a flying bus.

  6. G&T Admin

    The new comments bug I will fix, but won’t get a chance to do this weekend. Sorry!

  7. You know, they’ve just shown the ad for the box set, and the laughter sounds weird. Is it just me?

  8. >You know, they?ve just shown the ad for the box set, and the laughter sounds weird. Is it just me?

    What I find weird is that they only show clips from Series VI and a shot of Dwarf blowing up around Star Bug from Series V when it is meant to be for all series.

  9. I’ve got some pillows ready to throw at the screen as Doug mentioned.

  10. Here we go some more actually. Even more actually, here go some of us some more and the rest will come along shortly after.

  11. Smooth cut to the adverts wasn’t it?

  12. Erm. Been laughing hysterically for the last nine minutes. This is just fantastic.

  13. Is that what the DVD is going to look like? I like.

  14. I have tears from laughter coming down my face. That was 10 of the best minutes of Dwarf ever, the DVD actually appeared, atleast we know what the ‘Back to Earth’ case will look like.

  15. Awesome. Loving it. Spotting Mugs Murphy has a dvd out too. Love the return of the videos gag. laugh out loud back referencing.

  16. I’m loving this but I reckon I’d be loving it a whole lot more if this exact story hadn’t been done by the League (I know, old hat, but true ennit?)

  17. They’re not in our reality then – we haven’t had series 10!

  18. >Smooth cut to the adverts wasn?t it?

    Hmm… yeah, noticed that too.

    On the plus side, MORE GAGS. Great stuff.

  19. This is fucking brilliant. Who says Doug can’t write absolute CLASSIC Red Dwarf?

  20. We are all a bunch of fucking idiots drowning on about a simulant being in this, I best Andrew was laughing like a fucking idiot.

  21. It’s over? Christ, they need to make longer episodes.

  22. That was one of the best episodes of Red Dwarf ever.

  23. Totally engrossed. Loved every second. Couldn’t take it all, need to re watch.

  24. Dwarfrunner!
    Just absolutely wonderfully and hysterically fantastic!

  25. I’m going to have to rewatch that because I think I may have been missing something everyone else was seemingly getting.

  26. I laughed. Great episode – lot of fun. Gets better with each show.

  27. That was a classic episode. Once again it felt like 1/3 of an episode, but it surely puts paid to the idea that Doug can’t write one of the best episodes of RD ever…

  28. Funnier than part one. Other than that a complete waste of fucking time. *sigh* Christ this makes me angry.

  29. I’m… not sure where to start. That was, quite simply, epic. So many wonderful moments – the mini bunkroom, the clip of Polymorph on the TWAU telly, the CSI parody hysterical, the “writing out” of Katarina (which I doubt is permanent), CarBug!. Just brilliant.

  30. Awesome! That was like 300x funnier than last night – and I liked last night’s. Can’t believe it wasn’t a simulant after all.

  31. Katrina writeout was great, loved the psyscan joke – the guy’s penis is TINY! – and – wow. I just hope people put off by Part 1 stuck around for this.

  32. I don’t even know what to say. I’m so disappointed.

  33. what on ‘EARTH’ have i just seen, bizarre, funny, fantastic, brilliant. So killing holograms is fine. EXCELLENT!!!! Bring on part three!

  34. G&T Admin

    Pretty damn shocked. Should be an interetsing cast.

  35. wow am i the only person who found it abit embarrassing and proberly made my worst fears about them finding out they were a tv show real :(

  36. Who missed the laughter track tonight then? Not me

  37. Smegging sensational!

  38. Who missed the laughter track tonight then? Not me

    I think if an audience had reacted as I did, we wouldn’t have heard most of the dialogue…

  39. I enjoyed it (not as much as part 1, at first viewing anyway) but, much like Katerina in part 1, it seems the crew are far too accepting and don’t question things that are coming their way. It is never established that the fact that they are TV characters in this dimension would affect them whatsoever even if the characters are due to die… surely they would think ‘no problem, when we get back to our dimension, who cares?’. Then Rimmer goes and kills the person who is controlling their ability to return to Red Dwarf.

  40. Just how many Blade Runner refs. were in that one ep? Tyrell building in the titles, snake scale in the bath, ESPER computer…

  41. >Awesome! That was like 300x funnier than last night – and I liked last night?s. Can?t believe it wasn?t a simulant after all.

    This.

    >I don?t even know what to say. I?m so disappointed.

    Change the channel and watch something you like.

  42. Lots of good jokes this time around, although not in the tradional Dwarf format I found. Still, very much enjoyable, and better than the first episode.

  43. I laughed a hell of a lot harder tonight than I did last night. I love self-referential comedy and the fact that Red Dwarf was taking the piss out of itself was great.

    Line of the episode – ‘..Science Fiction, it’s all a bit bollocks really isn’t it?’ That had me in stitches!

  44. Hmm. That’s all I’ll say for now. Hmm.

  45. ….well I don’t know about anyone else but that was WAY better than part
    one for me, which confirms my suspicions that part one was not as good only because it ended at the set up. Now we’re into full swing, I’m really
    enjoying it. Love the parody of Blade Runner….and the ‘they’re only
    characters in a TV show’ thing. Was that why Naylor said we’d hate him after part 2? Don’t beat yourself up, fella, I LOVED IT! LOL :D

    Can’t wait for the conclusion. I bet it will be smeggin’ fabulous to watch all in one go – hope they have a director’s cut of some kind on the forthcoming DVD.

    hopscotch.
    Brand new Red Dwarf – ‘Back to Earth’ – 10th, 11th & 12th April 2009.
    Channel ‘Dave’.

  46. FAN-SMEGGIN-TASTIC!!!!!! I never doubted it for a second!!

  47. > Change the channel and watch something you like.

    This.

  48. i found it very hard to believe the crew would be ok with believing they were a tv show, i mean they found it harder in back to reality :S

  49. It was amazing. I have no idea how to respond it it however.

    Slightly confused why there are so many Blade Runner things happening. Does this mean Lister is going to gouge Doug’s eyes out?

    Glad there was no time wasting ‘previously’ and it went the Heroes route of last bit from slightly different angle.

    So the guy they are trying to find lives in Coronation Street? Or were they just passing through?

    ARGH.

  50. >Line of the episode – ?..Science Fiction, it?s all a bit bollocks really isn?t it?? That had me in stitches!

    THIS X 100000

  51. So, where to start.

    Err, I cant.

    Weird and wonderful, Kochanski still alive? (as predicted) (maybe)…

    Could series IX actually happen……..

    It’s just amazing.

  52. So, where to start.

    Err, I cant.

    Weird and wonderful, Kochanski still alive? (as predicted) (maybe)…

    Could series IX actually happen……..

    It’s just amazing.

  53. I knew it would pick up pace come part two, and I thought the dialouge between the fictional Lister and the children on the bus was very nice. Plus it means the option for Kochanski at a later date is possible for a return if wanted. Thought it was a bit harsh killing her off just cause she wasn’t available!

    Favourite moments included the Sci-Scan parody, the Earth-like bunk scene, the rediculously long photo method [harking back to Lister’s escape from Rimmerworld], the bus scene as previously mentioned… gonna have to watch it again and add to the list, I can’t remember everything!!!

  54. Hello Ganymede and Titan. I am Swallow. You like me in new show? I good yes?

    I’ve got loads of props to sell on ebay, is it bad to pimp them on this site without posting about the show first?

    Bring back the car in one piece you Dwarf crew!!!

  55. >it seems the crew are far too accepting and don?t question things that are coming their way

    Completely agree with you, but given how abrupt the ending was (again), maybe they just don’t have the time.

  56. Well the Fan Club got a mention there.

    Brilliant, fantastic, and very funny! That was classic Dwarf and no mistake! Reference overload, but I totally loved it!

  57. Another excellent episode. The scene on the bus with the kids was a bit irritating and i’m disappointed it wasn’t a simulant (actually i feel stupid for thinking there was going to be one). I laughed more at last nights but it think thats because i paid more attention to the story, after another watch i’ll notice the jokes more. The length of each one is an issue too it really should of been shown in one go. Tonight’s episode should please those who wanted a more classic Dwarf feel it felt a lot like Backwards.

    All in all it’s been excellent! Doug’s pulled it off big time.

  58. BRILLIANT! I thoroughly enjoyed that. Those kids on the bus were awesome.

    The whole thing was just very entertaining. The first 15 minutes were very VERY funny to me.

    I do feel at the point, that this shouldnt of been spread out over three nights.

    But that was bloody good! Really bloody good!

  59. >loved the psyscan joke – the guy?s penis is TINY!

    Y’know, reading these first actually enriches the delayed viewing experience. WTF?!?

    > That was one of the best episodes of Red Dwarf ever.

    Rilly?! <:d

    >I don?t even know what to say. I?m so disappointed.

    Aw. <: (

  60. I did laugh hard at the Cat’s comment about having more lines, and Kryten looking incognito at the bus stop. What the fuck happened when it cut to the ad break??

  61. G&T Admin

    > > Change the channel and watch something you like.
    >This.

    No. This is a fucking bollocks attitude to have on a Red Dwarf fansite, for fuck’s sake.

  62. >Just how many Blade Runner refs. were in that one ep? Tyrell building in the titles, snake scale in the bath, ESPER computer?

    Most of the dialogue in Richard Ng’s scene…

    Oh and I was really surprised at the add break. Very poor, But oh well.

  63. That was just ridiculously wierd. Watched it with my friend Steve – he’s still in shock.

    I think I liked it.

  64. I also loved the fact that the ‘President’ of the Red Dwarf Fan Club is parodied to shit on it. It wouldn’t surprise me if James had a Carbug tucked away in his garage…..

  65. What the fuck happened when it cut to the ad break??

    I’m pretty sure that was deliberate this time.

  66. Loved the extra scene after the recap, loved the entrance into the shop, really loved the ‘bunk room scene’ with Rimmer and Lister (Notice the photo of ‘Me dad’s dog, Hannah’ in the background? Mugs Murphy inclusion was great. The kids on the bus. The way Rimmer disposed of Katerina! Chloe in the magazine – Brilliant touch!! And in the shop…I WANT EVERYTHING.

    That was 200% better than last night’s ep, which means this episode deserves a 14 out of 10.

    Immense.

  67. Looking back not much actually happened in that episode, though really I don’t much care, it was so fucking funny.

  68. Oh yes, the ad break (after, what, five minutes?!) – hilarious!!!

  69. Oh, and James – When you changing your name to Reg? :p

  70. Yeah was it just me or did the ad break freeze? Either the joke is for us to be irritated at not knowing how Rimmer finished the list… or Dave messed up going into the ad break.

  71. So it wasn’t just me that wanted a corgi carbug model then?

  72. Anyone remember when we were talking about which Rimmer it was and I said it could be Series VIII Rimmer and he had just died, first scene Rimmer falls out of an air-lock, I was fucking close.

  73. Does anyone think Chlo? will be in this as herself? I know we probably would have known about it by now if so so, but…

  74. Mr Fibble wrote:

    >Hmm. That?s all I?ll say for now. Hmm.

    Glad you’re in a minority there, fella. Perhaps you have outgrown the show…..it’s not always the show failing to meet the individual’s expectations, sometimes it can be your own state of mind not meeting it – I’ve come to that realisation myself before now with other stuff. RD-B2E is certainly entertaining a lot of people here.

    hopscotch.
    Brand new Red Dwarf – ‘Back to Earth’ – 10th, 11th & 12th April 2009.
    Channel ‘Dave’.

  75. My name is Reg didn’t you know? It’s my middle name.

  76. Oh and this is the Series 1-7 Rimmer isn’t it, he knew about Polymorph, must be an episode in Series IX or Series X.

  77. >Oh, and James – When you changing your name to Reg? :p

    …Speaking of which, James, how’s that new ‘H’ tattoo coming along?

  78. It was totally obvious that the freeze was a joke, wasn’t it? I could see them moving! who cares anyway? I loved it so much I want to marry them all.

  79. Oh god, I so hope there’s a Carbug model coming out.

  80. > And in the shop?I WANT EVERYTHING.

    A Carbug! A die-cast Carbug! I wants it!

  81. I see. So after 15 years of being a Red Dwarf fan, I’m not entitled to have an opinion on the new shows and discuss them with fellow fans on a Red Dwarf fan site. Instead I’m supposed to shut the fuck up and change the channel? How enlightened you both are.

  82. It was good, I enjoyed it, I laughed but two episodes in and we’re still waiting for Back to Earth to really begin.

  83. Oh shitting christ…

    *levers open his mind with a crowbar*

    roll on Ep 3…

  84. im shocked by the amount of people who aint got a problem with how easy the crew relaxed to the idea they were a tv show, im not sure it was even explained why they were even finding the creators? so they could have an ending :S… why? :S

    im hoping to see a nice twist by part 3, but i cant help but feel the crew should of questioned things more

    yes there were indeed some very funny scenes

  85. Pretty good but I wish there was so much MORE of it! Even though the idea of them being characters in a TV show has very little entertainment value, for me at least, especially since the League film did it brilliantly already (including seeing all the League merch, watching themselves on TV etc.). Stuff like the video gag and the big Blade Runner parody/references makes up for it though.

    The effects on the entrances to ‘our’ world were top notch. Why no-one seemingly cares about the characters just appearing like that is maybe something we should just forget about. Though the comic book guy’s reaction is puzzling too. Surely he would have completely flipped out. I liked the bit with the kids, even though it went on for too long. Chloe in the magazine!! And Kochanski is NOT DEAD!!! Kryten just lied to Lister to save his feelings (considering he obviously goes and cries at her graveside regularly, to say that was a bit of a mistake on Kryte’s part would be an understatement)

  86. Oh, and what was with The Cat’s Origami stuff? That I didn’t get.

    (Although my sister’s suggesting it might be something from Story Makers).

  87. Cat didn’t ask for more lines, he asked for more life (rewatching it now). My bad.

    “Awww not a three-parter, I hate three-parters!”

  88. I don’t think it’s necessarily the 1-7 Rimmer. Surely in 9 years Lister etc. could have filled him in on the Polymorph and what have you

  89. I thought the Kochanski is alive stuff was made up by the kids to make them feel better about her death.

  90. >Oh, and James – When you changing your name to Reg? :p

    ?Speaking of which, James, how?s that new ?H? tattoo coming along?

    It fell off..Actually I’m popping down the shops tomorrow!

  91. > im not sure it was even explained why they were even finding the creators? so they could have an ending :S? why? :S

    It was the plot of the DVD. They were to be killed and wanted more life.
    Which is the plot of Bladerunner

  92. The toilet paper gag had me laughing more than I have for a while. Even in the gags from the previous series. Such a daft hilarious image.

    I ended up missing some of the ‘simulant’ (heh, yeah, right) stuff cos the phone rang. Grrr. I’ll catch it again later anyway.

    As for the episode… rather confusing, but that’s not a bad thing. I’m not sure I want it to be literally what it seems, but it would be nice for something different than the Back to Reality story.

    I can’t help thinking the people in the store were surprising unobservant when they appeared out of the TV sets, but when considering people nowadays… perhaps not.

    They’re really laying the Bladerunner stuff on a bit thick though aren’t they? I like a bit of parody, but more as a taster homage rather than something quite so blatant.. but we’ll see. I’ve yet to watch the interview with the old man properly. (I just make noses, was amusing for some reason though.)

    Overall good, and certainly funnier than the first episode. I’m liking it and the Kochanski stuff was food for thought. Just the little girls theory or something that was confirmed to her in series IX?

  93. > Oh, and what was with The Cat?s Origami stuff? That I didn?t get.

    Gaff.

  94. I would assume the abrupt end of Rimmer’s speech at the break was intentional, as Doug would have known about the ads on Dave.

    Anyway, I loved it. The psyscan scene had me crying with laughter. Really felt like Red Dwarf, even better than part 1. Bravo.

  95. >Oh, and what was with The Cat?s Origami stuff? That I didn?t get.

    It’s another Blade Runner ref., I think. A character called Gaff makes origamis that tie into the subtext of various scenes.

  96. Oh, and it was over too quickly again.

  97. I thought Rimmer was talking about a polymorph incident we haven’t seen.

  98. *Constantly refreshes Play.com until diecast Carbug appears on front page*

    ….err, no. You’re not the only one who wouldn’t mind one. :P

  99. Hmmm… so anyone think Lister is going to be left behind on Earth to try his luck with Chloe Annett?

    That this three-parter is designed to write him out (due to Corrie commitments) and when the status quo is restored at the end of the episode, it will be the NEW status quo (or would that be stasis quo?) of the crew minus Listy, in preparation for a new series?

    I don’t even know whether that could be classed as wishful thinking (new series) because who would want it without Lister?

  100. > Oh, and it was over too quickly again.

    Hours and hours of planning just for 8 seconds of… ;)

  101. That’s the only complaint I have so far. The episodes finish so quickly, I’m wondering whether there’ll be time to cram a proper conclusion into the last episode.

  102. Richey wrote

    >I see. So after 15 years of being a Red Dwarf fan, I?m not entitled to have an opinion on the new shows and discuss them with fellow fans on a Red Dwarf fan site. Instead I?m supposed to shut the fuck up and change the channel? How enlightened you both are.
    >

    Oh no, you’re perfectly entitled to an opinion….as are we all….but when someone moan’s at part one, then again at part two, *suggesting* they might want to watch something they *do* like as opposed to watching part three is a perfectly valid *suggestion*. Of course….you don’t have to take their advice. I’m sure lots of people can’t wait to hear how much you disliked part three. ;)

  103. >> Oh, and it was over too quickly again.

    Interestingly, that was ten minutes longer, and felt at least as SHORT as the first ep. for me.

  104. This whole thing does feel like a regular (classic) episode split into three to accomodate ads, though.

  105. >Who missed the laughter track tonight then? Not me

    I didn’t even think of that! Which totally proves your point!

  106. Looking at the split this episode has made (having an argument on MSN against a friend who didn’t really like it) it will be an interesting Dwarf Cast today, I think it will be more two sides than yesterday which was basically everyone against John.

  107. >That this three-parter is designed to write him out (due to Corrie commitments) and when the status quo is restored at the end of the episode, it will be the NEW status quo (or would that be stasis quo?) of the crew minus Listy, in preparation for a new series?

    rip out our beating hearts and stomp on them why don’t you carl? ;)

  108. sadly i couldnt stop cringing :(, i gave it a chance but for some reason part 1 felt more like red dwarf to me :(

    part 2 might of been funnier but wasnt no back to reality :(

  109. > I thought the Kochanski is alive stuff was made up by the kids to make them feel better about her death.

    Yeah they did say “we worked it out”, and “she is still alive, I bet ya!” therefore if it did happen, it would have happened off-screen.

    Mind you, on the second watch Kryten has a strange (guilt-mode?) reaction to the mention of Kochanski’s death when they are in the DVD section.

  110. i’m not sure if lister will be written out, CC was interviewed by the times the other day and he said he wasn’t sure about doing a film but wanted to do another series!

  111. Thought it was hilarious! Bring on part 3!

  112. A car crash can’t kill Katerina. Hardlight holograms are indestructible; if Rimmer is bomb-proof, then Katerina must be car-proof.

  113. yes i know, im shocked by how much people like it, but hey

  114. >Yeah they did say ?we worked it out?, and ?she is still alive, I bet ya!?

    Aw, I can’t wait to see this.

  115. Oh, and what was with The Cat?s Origami stuff? That I didn?t get.

    By the time I’ve read through all the comments and typed this, someone else will have pointed out that this is one of the many, many Blade Runner homages in BTE.

    Wow, I sound meta!

  116. sadly i couldnt stop cringing :(, i gave it a chance but for some reason part 1 felt more like red dwarf to me :(

    part 2 might of been funnier but wasnt no back to reality :(

    It wasn’t back to Reality, and it wasnt Part 1… it was NEW, and it was 2009, taking the smeg out of every convention under the book. And managing to give enough nostalgia for old fans, and yet new material to create new fans along the way.

    It’s called change, and for a new age product, I feel it’s for the better…

  117. >A car crash can?t kill Katerina. Hardlight holograms are indestructible; if Rimmer is bomb-proof, then Katerina must be car-proof.

    Which will mean she appears in part 3.

  118. And what was Kryten going to say to Rimmer about Katerina before they got sucked
    into this reality? that seems relevant to me.

    Is there any origami in blade runner? There is some great mystery to this Red Dwarf,
    that really suits this three parter.

    Some people are having trouble grasping the idea of the TV show universe, despite the fact the cast have been a computer game, and a plasticine screen saver before now. Yes your reservations might be right, but this is happening, and If you can go with it, you’ll have more fun.

  119. Loving the music when they go through the swirly-whirly thing…

  120. And what was Kryten going to say to Rimmer about Katerina before they got sucked into this reality? that seems relevant to me.

    Probably that someone with a flawless record can’t possibly be real – the usual investigatory cliche…

  121. > Oh no, you?re perfectly entitled to an opinion?.as are we all?.but when someone moan?s at part one, then again at part two, *suggesting* they might want to watch something they *do* like as opposed to watching part three is a perfectly valid *suggestion*. Of course?.you don?t have to take their advice. I?m sure lots of people can?t wait to hear how much you disliked part three. ;)

    You sound like an utter stereotypical fanboy there. Unable to accept criticism of any kind against something you like. I wanted these episodes to be fantastic, I wanted them to be funny and clever and a joy to watch. AND THEY’RE NOT. So far, BTE has been boring, with only a handfull of decent jokes and some frankly embarassing moments. Some of the humour in tonight’s episode was as poor as series 8. I am not some moaning hater – I love Red Dwarf. But this is NOT the Red Dwarf I know and have loved all these years. If you are happy to accept an inferior version of the show, then all the best and enjoy it as much as you can. But I’d take series VII over this. Part 3 can’t salvage this FOR ME.

    And for the record, Rimmer is a coward – but he’s NOT a murderer.

  122. The explanation for why Red Dwarf has always referred to videos rather than anything more futuristic!

    The ridiculously high-tech photo enhancement (“uncrop!”)

    A “bunk room” scene! (Although admittedly I laughed at that setup more than the toilet joke…)

    Yeah was it just me or did the ad break freeze? Either the joke is for us to be irritated at not knowing how Rimmer finished the list? or Dave messed up going into the ad break.

    He was talking about not being in to watch all the episodes. So it was implied that he’d record them… and then the DVD/PVR (or video!) recording messed up by freezing.

    At least I hope that’s what was intended. I wonder how it’ll work on the DVD without an ad break…

    Does anyone think Chlo? will be in this as herself? I know we probably would have known about it by now if so so, but?

    She’s been seen in pictures in both episodes so far…

  123. 1st comment on this ABSOLUTELY FANFUCKINGTASTIC never laughed soo much in a long long time absolutely amazing brilliant i really enjoyed last nights sooo much but this was A ZILLION TRILLION TIMES BETTER i dont know what to say …

    if i had to have a negative at all i would say the bit with the kids dragged slightly but apart from that amazing

    ” tell rimmer hes a smeg head ”

  124. You sound like an utter stereotypical fanboy there. Unable to accept criticism of any kind against something you like. I wanted these episodes to be fantastic, I wanted them to be funny and clever and a joy to watch. AND THEY?RE NOT. So far, BTE has been boring, with only a handfull of decent jokes and some frankly embarassing moments. Some of the humour in tonight?s episode was as poor as series 8. I am not some moaning hater – I love Red Dwarf. But this is NOT the Red Dwarf I know and have loved all these years. If you are happy to accept an inferior version of the show, then all the best and enjoy it as much as you can. But I?d take series VII over this. Part 3 can?t salvage this FOR ME.

    I think the problem bud is that although you are obviously entitled to an opinion, it’s the wording of them coming across as fact. For example:

    …the humour in tonight?s episode was as poor as series 8…

    If you were to perhaps say “In my opinion”, not as many people would be making a point. I know I know, it’s petty, but it’s something I picked up on being a possible reason…

  125. > Rimmer is a coward – but he?s NOT a murderer.

    Katerina had already made it clear that killing a hologram wasn’t murder, so he isn’t.

  126. >> Rimmer is a coward – but he?s NOT a murderer.

    >Katerina had already made it clear that killing a hologram wasn?t murder, so he isn?t.

    *applauds*

  127. It was self-defence, really. She would have killed him.

    Strange how the other crew members, Mr. Morality Dave Lister especially, had nothing to say on the subject.

  128. >And for the record, Rimmer is a coward – but he?s NOT a murderer.

    Gee, I wonder if that could possibly be why they so clearly explained that destroying a hologram wasn’t murder before he did it.

    >Part 3 can?t salvage this FOR ME.

    No reason for you to watch it then.

  129. > Katerina had already made it clear that killing a hologram wasn?t murder, so he isn?t.

    Well done. You just missed the point entirely.

    *applauds*

  130. > It was self-defence, really. She would have killed him.

    She said she was going to in Part 1

  131. > Rimmer is a coward – but he?s NOT a murderer.

    Katerina had already made it clear that killing a hologram wasn?t murder, so he isn?t.

    Besides, didn’t Legion say you can’t ‘kill’ a hard light (aside from deletion)? Pleasure/pain responses remain the same, but they cannot come to harm by means of physical attack.

  132. The Dave references will have to be cut when this shows up on BBC though!

  133. I almost bought Blade Runner the other day. Mabey best that I didnt.

    I forgot about some of the jokes in tonights episode untill reading this, the toilet gag was hysterical. No arguments. I pray to god that they make moe after this.

    I also hope that Doug has popped on here to glance at the comments. Its a long shot, but never say never. If you ARE reading Doug – GOOD WORK! Im lovin It!

  134. > And for the record, Rimmer is a coward – but he?s NOT a murderer.

    “I could happily kill him when he was on the job”

  135. > If you were to perhaps say ?In my opinion?, not as many people would be making a point. I know I know, it?s petty, but it?s something I picked up on being a possible reason?

    Guess I need a disclaimer at the end of all my posts that says ‘WARNING: THE ABOVE COMMENT IS OPINION ONLY!! DO NOT ACCEPT AS FACT!!’ :p

  136. Certain people have said they’d take Series VII over this, I agree that VII and VIII weren’t as good as previous series but VIII still holds the record for the highest ratings on BBC2, So what do we know! The show got high ratings last night and we’ll see about tonights episode, i love it so far, i think some people just can’t except change, i’m just glad its back and could lead to more!!!!!

  137. Great rimmer intro’s tonight. Apologizing for the smeg ups, and “attend now the terrifying tale of the polymorph”

    Think it will be Kryten tomorrow? Cat for the Monday repeats maybe?

  138. >Interestingly, that was ten minutes longer, and felt at least as SHORT as the first ep. for me.

    It wasn’t. It was over by 9:29. At least there wasn’t a huge unnecessary recap of part 1, I guess.

    Am I the only one who’s wholly expecting a ‘surprise’ appearance by Chloe in episode 3?

  139. >The Dave references will have to be cut when this shows up on BBC though!

    Yes and that will happen between now and never.

  140. > Am I the only one who?s wholly expecting a ?surprise? appearance by Chloe in episode 3?

    Nope. I’m almost totally expecting a cameo now (I wouldn’t even bet against a Norman cameo).

  141. Causing death by negigence, however, and by this I mean failing to shoot the simulant in the back in Rimmerworld and the mysterysquid…

  142. We can now all count our DVDs an genuine Red Dwarf prop replicas.

  143. > Yes and that will happen between now and never.

    Ahhhh… we shall see!

  144. “We can now all count our DVDs an genuine Red Dwarf prop replicas.”

    You’ve made a great night even better.

  145. >Oh, and what was with The Cat?s Origami stuff? That I didn?t get.

    It was another Bladerunner gag. A character called Gaff played by Edward James Olmos leaves little origami creatures around. It’s kinda his ‘thing’.*

    *Bladerunner Spoiler:

    It also has particular significance at the end of the Director’s Cut and Final Cut versions of the film.

    A significance to fake memories no less. Hmmmm…

  146. > Causing death by negigence, however, and by this I mean failing to shoot the simulant in the back in Rimmerworld and the mysterysquid?

    And that small matter of 1167 crew members aboard Red Dwarf.

  147. do you think the dvd cover for back to earth in this episode will actually be the cover ????

  148. Richey wrote:
    >You sound like an utter stereotypical fanboy there. Unable to accept criticism of any kind against something you like. I wanted these episodes to be fantastic, I wanted them to be funny and clever and a joy to watch. AND THEY?RE NOT. So far, BTE has been boring, with only a handfull of decent jokes and some frankly embarassing moments. Some of the humour in tonight?s episode was as poor as series 8. I am not some moaning hater – I love Red Dwarf. But this is NOT the Red Dwarf I know and have loved all these years. If you are happy to accept an inferior version of the show, then all the best and enjoy it as much as you can. But I?d take series VII over this.
    >

    I sound like a fanboy? Actually, I defended your right to your opinion. I know some will like it and some won’t. You’re the fanboy for insisting that this is an inferior product and that I must somehow not come up to scratch for liking it. I’m not telling you to like it, all I said was that I can understand someone suggesting you perhaps watch something you like instead (which I never said myself) considering you obviously don’t like this.

    >Part 3 can?t salvage this FOR ME.

    Fair doos. I refer you to the previous gentleman’s suggestion.

    >And for the record, Rimmer is a coward – but he?s NOT a murderer.

    Holograms are already dead…aren’t they? :/

  149. I just saw the scene were Kochanski’s death is mentioned, he did look all guilty, Kochanski is alive!

  150. Thanks Chris. Been ages since I’ve seen Blade Runner and dont think I’ve ever seen the Final cut.

  151. “Uncrop!”

    Haha. Still laughing.

  152. >I don?t think it?s necessarily the 1-7 Rimmer. Surely in 9 years Lister etc. could have filled him in on the Polymorph and what have you

    Rimmer in VIII had 1-7’s diary disk. He could have known it from that.

  153. >Nope. I?m almost totally expecting a cameo now (I wouldn?t even bet against a Norman cameo).

    I’ve been saying it from the beginning. Norm WILL appear. Or not. (Still think he might…) ;-))

  154. Oh nobody has mentioned the video stuff, Kryten saying that they changed from DVDs to video because they lossed so many DVDs from not putting them in their case. So funny, such a well thought out joke which is a wonderful back refrence.

  155. Hn, first impression was that I found the episode underwhelming. Seemed largely filler which may look better as part of the whole on DVD/played back to back, but I wasn’t feeling it tonight, Price Smashers salesman and vehicular Katerina notwithstanding.

  156. Actually just remembered that whole CSI image gag. I thought that was rather clever.

  157. Oops, sorry P2P. This thread is updating so fast! (Still I wondered if the origami would have significance despite the reference…)

  158. “…the small rouge one”

    That is all.

  159. I am going to get Blade Runner this week based on the amount of refrences, I may get DS9 S4 too but you know, nothing to do with Dwarf.

  160. >Oops, sorry P2P. This thread is updating so fast! (Still I wondered if the origami would have significance despite the reference?)

    Cool. Cool. Cool. :-))

  161. >Oh nobody has mentioned the video stuff, Kryten saying that they changed from DVDs to video because they lossed so many DVDs from not putting them in their case. So funny, such a well thought out joke which is a wonderful back refrence.

    My first actual lol was

    “before they replaced them with what we use now”

    “what, videos?” Just brilliant.

  162. Just thought I would throw this in – Doug Naylor is a fucking genius – thank you.

  163. Simply great I thought:

    ”Tell you what they’re not friendly round here, try to start a conversation no one wants to know!”

  164. Simply great I thought:

    ”Tell you what they’re not friendly round here, try to start a conversation no one wants to know!”

  165. Actually just remembered that whole CSI image gag. I thought that was rather clever.

    I just saw that as a new version of the “pully system/teleporter” gag, only this time it was the phone book rather than rotating the image 700 times.

  166. >tos not loading?

    nope . just noticed that myself ahhh its the 1st time im actually pleased a website has crashed because i just know its going to be 99% positivity . well i would be very suprised if it wasnt

  167. >Oh nobody has mentioned the video stuff, Kryten saying that they changed from DVDs to video because they lossed so many DVDs from not putting them in their case

    I loved that. Really funny – if only they’d explained how they become triangular ;)

    I guess this is the kind of stuff that casual viewers aren’t getting. Still, nothing wrong with panning toward the fans, especially when this may be the last outing.

    I believe there was a mention of the legendary prop-of-the-year Polymorph snake too.

  168. Yes, Doug Naylor is a genius and can still write classic Dwarf. We just have to accept (I do, at least), that it’s not going to be Grant Naylor Dwarf. If we accept that, and Doug has the courage to write Dwarf as he wants – in this movie style, no studio audience – well, we get fantastic episodes like this.

  169. > I can understand someone suggesting you perhaps watch something you like instead (which I never said myself) considering you obviously don?t like this.

    I really wish that I did like it, hopscotch. I wish that I could see what everyone else finds so good about it.

    Both last night and tonight I’ve sat down in front of the TV, eager and excited, looking forward to it, giggling about old RD jokes with my family while we’ve waited with anticipation during the adverts for BTE to start. And at the end of both episodes I’ve found myself feeling disappointed. Basically, the exact same process I went through every week when series 8 was originally screened.

    :(

  170. > It also has particular significance at the end of the Director?s Cut and Final Cut versions of the film.

    And even moreso in the Philip K Dick book from which it was adapted.

  171. Just saw on subtitles, music in Carbug scene: ‘I’m The Magnificent’ by Special Ed.

  172. Jonsmad wrote

    >Thanks Chris. Been ages since I?ve seen Blade Runner and dont think I?ve ever seen the Final cut.

    You don’t need the final cut to have got the Origami….it is present all the way through the theatrical version. All the director’s cut did as far as I can remember was to add a dream sequence of Deckard dreaming about a Unicorn running through a forest (suggesting ‘Do Androids dream of electric sheep’…i.e is Deckard a replicant), and they removed the happy ending (Deckard and Rachael driving into the sunset together). But yeah, all the way through the Gaff character (Edward James Olmos) was leaving little Origami statues about the place….as was Cat tonight.

    Hope that sparks your memory and clears it up? :)

  173. Just saw on subtitles, music in Carbug scene: ?I?m The Magnificent? by Special Ed.

    Now someone just needs to see if the music from the invalid dimension sequence is shown… sounded quite good!

  174. Glad you?re in a minority there, fella. Perhaps you have outgrown the show?..it?s not always the show failing to meet the individual?s expectations, sometimes it can be your own state of mind not meeting it – I?ve come to that realisation myself before now with other stuff.

    Not at all, I loved last night. I liked today… less. I don’t feel the music they’re using works, and I felt the entrance into the TV shop was about a minute too long, and I found the “let’s do lots of picture manipulation” bit exceedingly stupid.

    Other than that, it’s good, but I think it’s missing lots of explanation along the way. The pacing is off by a mile.

  175. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Chloe making an appearance, mind you, I wouldn’t be surprised by anything having watched it so far…(maybe she comes to the rescue, there have been a number of references so far, and it would be a masive turn up)
    I seem to recall Robert mentioning at one time that it was just the boys and then changing it to there was no confirmation of Chloe, Norman and Hattie or words to that effect)

    Overall I’ve loved every moment of it so far, every twist, every weird moment.
    I also think that Doug has done a cracking job of combining the o;d style with something completely new, It’s joyous, dark and even poignent in places and there’s some great classic style humour as well. I thought, something for everyone.

    Having said that, I was expecting some mixed reaction, there always is…

    All I can say is that from the moment the theme tune opened on Friday, I was hooked.

    In fact, When the theme tune burst into life, I could feel the hairs on my neck stand up and I cant recall any other show ever having that effect…

  176. Could Katerina actually be trying to save the crew? Maybe she knows they have to go to the alternate dimension to plead for more life. She could just be a bit of a bitch.

  177. Richey wrote:

    > I really wish that I did like it, hopscotch. I wish that I could see what everyone else finds so good about it.

    >Both last night and tonight I?ve sat down in front of the TV, eager and excited, looking forward to it, giggling about old RD jokes with my family while we?ve waited with anticipation during the adverts for BTE to start. And at the end of both episodes I?ve found myself feeling disappointed. Basically, the exact same process I went through every week when series 8 was originally screened.
    >

    Fair play, mate. I wish you could have enjoyed it, but I respect the fact you don’t.

  178. I really do think Chloe will appear. Actually, I’m calling that.

    > DS9 S4

    Unfortunately one of the eps is cut, unless you get the R1 version.

  179. I thought all the sci fi in this was Bollocks. I agree with Richey, it’s all rubbish, I mean a dimension cutter? we dont sell anything like that in pricesmashers. People coming through the TV what utter fucking time wasting, I only tuned into Dave to see if Jeremy Clarkson had any more insights for me, and this crap was on.

    Now Iain Lee he’s a funny guy. That’s the kind of comedy you sad types should be watching. Funny man.

  180. I also have a feeling that some of the unexplained and similarities to other shows will be explained in due course……

  181. I kinda wish now I hadn’t followed every snippet of news so closely. I’ve been trying to avoid genuine spoilers (I didn’t venture into the “spoiling in the gutters” thread, haven’t read the OfftheTelly review linked on the main page, and didn’t watch the clip from Thursday’s Berkeley Square event) but much of the speculation that’s been posted on Ganymede & Titan news items has been pretty accurate. So now I’m wondering how I would react to this self-referential metafictional stuff if I hadn’t been following anything on the Internet beforehand…

  182. Mike Mellington wrote:

    >Now Iain Lee he?s a funny guy. That?s the kind of comedy you sado?s should be watching. Funny man.

    Fail.

  183. Part 3 I imagine will be even more of a mind fuck than this was.

  184. > Now Iain Lee he?s a funny guy.

    You know where the door is…

  185. So are they repeating Polymorph because of the refrence in the episode, if they are I have to say it is well though through scheduling.

  186. Does anyone have any thoughts about the significance of the repeated ‘too weird for words’ phrase. I think it was said 3 times, perhaps more.

    Also, Lister reading Chinese?!

  187. Oh my stars. What an episode.

    Right – first things first.

    Cat’s little origami models. Yes, it’s a Blade Runner reference. But they’re shown so clearly that there must be more to it than that. They must be integral to the plot. Is it me or do they look like little paper squid?

    Loved all the Blade Runner stuff, especially the “image enhancement” bit. It’s not CSI, peoples! It’s parodying the equally ridiculous similar scene in Blade Runner. The “uncrop” nearly made me choke up a puddle of pure laughter and I was in hysterics through the whole scene.

    I’m amazed that anyone thought that the sudden advert break wasn’t deliberate.

    Rimmer was talking about concerns of being a character on a TV show and the draw-backs of it being a 3-parter (“What if I’m out?”)…one can only assume he was about to say “What if there’s an advert break?”. All part of the meta-ficitonal funnies.

    Loved it loved it loved it.

    Seriously funny, clever stuff. Classic Dwarf. I can’t believe how good this is turning out.

    One thing, though – I will utterly defend anyone’s right to say that it’s rubbish. I’ve been saying that series 7 and 8 are largely plops for a long time and I know it’s not a view everyone shares. Nobody has the right to tell anyone else they’re wrong for either loving or hating this or any other Dwarf. It’s just opinions, man.

  188. All rather cryptic.

  189. You know where the door is?

    The attention seeking door, there.

    Hope the BTE DVD is the one in the programme. Mitchell and Webb’s DVD wasted the opportunity to have the menu be the one they were talking about on the actual product.

  190. >> It also has particular significance at the end of the Director?s Cut and Final Cut versions of the film.

    >And even moreso in the Philip K Dick book from which it was adapted.

    Pretty much all I remember about the novel is something about a religion based around sharing the experience of a man climbing up a mountain for all eternity…

  191. i agree the pace seems rushed. but thats due to time constraints i think. had this been made as a 6 parter series it would be better paced. i miss the laugh track really. the laugh track is really the defining charecteristic of alot of comedies.

    that aside i liked episode 1 alot more then 2. the whole them realising they are fictional charecters doesn’t work for me really. kochanski dieing or not via being sucked out a air lock is a bit dry. i admit i preferd my theory i made up at carbug located of lister bonking her to death. its a funny way to go really lol.

    also curiouse as to what these little origarmi things cat keeps leaving around are ment to represent they clearly are integral to the plot in some fashion

    anyway bring on part 3 and series 9 and series ten :)

  192. >Is it me or do they look like little paper squid?

    Reminded me of the golden light that shot out of the water tank.

  193. >You know where the door is?

    Do you? Seriously, you’ve seen enough to know that you don’t like it. At this point you’re ranting that shit doesn’t taste like your favourite ice cream.

    >I really do think Chloe will appear. Actually, I?m calling that.

    Oi! Duane Dibbseys.

  194. ‘TOO WEIRD FOR WORDS’…Definitely some meaning in this.

  195. You know when they were in back to reality it was holly that saved them. If this is similar, which it might be or different, there is no holly we are told this time around.

  196. Would love to hear what Rob Grant thinks of BtE. Was he at the premiere?

  197. Hmmm… notice how when the dimension portal thingy whatever it was opened, everybody (including Rimmer) was clinging on so as not to be pulled into it, yet Katerina was rather calm and chilled and standing perfectly still?

    Also, after the revelation that Kochanski MAY have dumped Lister due to deteriorating mental state (drinking, despondancy) and Katerina’s “his body is alive but inside he is dead”… could Kochanski have orchestrated Katerina’s sudden arrival, to shake some life back into Lister?

  198. >Rimmer was talking about concerns of being a character on a TV show and the draw-backs of it being a 3-parter (?What if I?m out??)?one can only assume he was about to say ?What if there?s an advert break??.

    That was really funny too. The thing with tonight’s show, over Ep.1 is that every scene had a great moment. The appliance store, the bus, the comic shop…an amazing amount was packed into 26 or so minutes.

    I can understand that some people don’t like meta-fiction, but what I don’t get is why they keep watching, keep complaining, and keep acting like Doug Naylor has made this as a personal affront to them.

  199. SoundableObject:

    So are they repeating Polymorph because of the refrence in the episode, if they are I have to say it is well though through scheduling.

    And IIRC “Back to Reality” will be repeated after part 3. This may be Significant.

    Zombie Jim Undead:

    Rimmer was talking about concerns of being a character on a TV show and the draw-backs of it being a 3-parter (?What if I?m out??)?one can only assume he was about to say ?What if there?s an advert break??. All part of the meta-ficitonal funnies.

    I thought he was about to say, “What if it doesn’t record properly?” To give a little shock to people who did record it. As I said earlier, I wonder how that’ll come across on the DVD?

  200. > It also has particular significance at the end of the Director?s Cut and Final Cut versions of the film.

    And even moreso in the Philip K Dick book from which it was adapted.

    Was there origami figures in that book? It’s been a while since I read that, or were you just referring to the idea of fake memories (I remember that.)

    Yeah the origami figures were in all versions of the films. It has special significance in the films with the unicorn though, which makes me wonder if Cat’s leaving them is a clue to the ‘reality’ of the situation they find themselves. (Although I wonder why the Cat would be channeling these clues. Then again, this might be a reference to the Cat’s sudden insightfullness in VR in Back in the Red…)

  201. > Do you? Seriously, you?ve seen enough to know that you don?t like it. At this point you?re ranting that shit doesn?t taste like your favourite ice cream.

    You’ve proven to me that there is no point trying to have a discussion with some people about the present quality of one of my favourite shows. The Ian Lee fan is obviously more welcome than I am.

    > I can understand that some people don?t like meta-fiction, but what I don?t get is why they keep watching,

    In the hope that the show improves.

    > Keep complaining,

    Nobody is complaining, just passing their own opinions as fans of the show.

    > and keep acting like Doug Naylor has made this as a personal affront to them.

    Again, nobody has made such a claim and I doubt very much that anyone feels that way.

  202. >> DS9 S4

    >Unfortunately one of the eps is cut, unless you get the R1 version.

    Yeah, episode 23 ‘To the Death’. But just about 2 seconds from a single scene where a Jem’Hadar leader breaks the neck of one of his men, as a punishment for scrapping with Worf. For some reason I’ve temporarily forgot, Starfleet and the Jem’Hadar are working together in this episode. An annoying cut….but I can live with it (I downloaded the uncut episode anyway…AFAIC I paid good money for that scene when I bought the R2 DVD’s).

    Now the cut in the sixth season episode ‘Sons and Daughters’….that is brutal. A Klingon blood sharing ritual is completely hacked from it…..about 20 odd seconds IIRC. (I downloaded the uncut version of that, too) :)

  203. > I thought he was about to say, ?What if it doesn?t record properly?? To give a little shock to people who did record it. As I said earlier, I wonder how that?ll come across on the DVD?

    I was thinking this. It’d be nice to have a faux advert break at that pont with Dwarf-related stuff.

  204. > Yeah, episode 23 ?To the Death?. But just about 2 seconds from a single scene where a Jem?Hadar leader breaks the neck of one of his men, as a punishment for scrapping with Worf. For some reason I?ve temporarily forgot, Starfleet and the Jem?Hadar are working together in this episode. An annoying cut?.but I can live with it (I downloaded the uncut episode anyway?AFAIC I paid good money for that scene when I bought the R2 DVD?s).

    >Now the cut in the sixth season episode ?Sons and Daughters??.that is brutal. A Klingon blood sharing ritual is completely hacked from it?..about 20 odd seconds IIRC. (I downloaded the uncut version of that, too) :)

    I was under the impression that the Starfleet/Jem’Hadar assault was trimmed, too. At least, according to Memory Alpha.

  205. >I was thinking this. It?d be nice to have a faux advert break at that pont with Dwarf-related stuff.

    Or maybe they shot a DVD specific alternate take..?

  206. >>> DS9 S4

    >>Unfortunately one of the eps is cut, unless you get the R1 version.

    >Yeah, episode 23 ?To the Death?. But just about 2 seconds from a single scene where a Jem?Hadar leader breaks the neck of one of his men, as a punishment for scrapping with Worf. For some reason I?ve temporarily forgot, Starfleet and the Jem?Hadar are working together in this episode. An annoying cut?.but I can live with it (I downloaded the uncut episode anyway?AFAIC I paid good money for that scene when I bought the R2 DVD?s).
    Now the cut in the sixth season episode ?Sons and Daughters??.that is brutal. A Klingon blood sharing ritual is completely hacked from it?..about 20 odd seconds IIRC. (I downloaded the uncut version of that, too) :)

    I have never seen DS9 4, Only finished Season 3 a week back, I will get the region 2 version despite the annoying cuts because it is cheaper and it matches the other 3 as well as my other Trek slimline sets.

  207. OOH OOOH OOOOHHH…

    Forgot to say.

    In addition to the Mugs Murphy DVD, did anyone else notice the DVD copy of “Die Screaming with Sharp Things in Your Head” on the shelf?

    Nice.

    Need to have a look at the other titles. I predict more nice little details. Will be using the DVD zoom function on next viewing. Or at least uncropping the image.

  208. > Mitchell and Webb?s DVD wasted the opportunity to have the menu be the one they were talking about on the actual product.

    Ahhh did they not? I always assumed they would have actually done that.

  209. Really enjoyed it tonight.Can’t wait to see tomorrows.
    I think watching it all together will be amazing.

  210. In addition to the Mugs Murphy DVD, did anyone else notice the DVD copy of ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things in Your Head? on the shelf?

    You know, I missed a lot of these references. (Mind you I don’t have the sharpest eyes!) I’ll try to keep my eyes more peeled on the rewatch.

  211. >anyone else notice the DVD copy of ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things in Your Head? on the shelf?

    Is THAT what that was? Good god, that’s brilliance.

  212. >anyone else notice the DVD copy of ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things in Your Head? on the shelf?

    Where was ‘Revenge of the Mutant Splat-Gore Monster’?

  213. Or revenge of the killer surfer vampire bikini girls?

  214. They might all be there. As I said, need to rewatch. That was the only one I could make out. I had me lookers on, not me readers.

  215. I take it you mean ‘Revenge of the Surfboarding Killer Bikini Vampire Girls’?!

  216. > Is THAT what that was? Good god, that?s brilliance.

    I know!

    A that moment I shouted out ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things in Your Head!? at the TV.

    This confused and worried the Mrs no end.

  217. Mike Mellington:

    I thought all the sci fi in this was Bollocks. I agree with Richey, it?s all rubbish, I mean a dimension cutter? we dont sell anything like that in pricesmashers. People coming through the TV what utter fucking time wasting, I only tuned into Dave to see if Jeremy Clarkson had any more insights for me, and this crap was on.

    Now Iain Lee he?s a funny guy. That?s the kind of comedy you sad types should be watching. Funny man.

    Shut up, pin-dick.

    (Thank the lord for the psi-scan.)

  218. >I was under the impression that the Starfleet/Jem?Hadar assault was trimmed, too. At least, according to Memory Alpha.

    I think you’re actually right….and wrong at the same time. As far as I know (I may be wrong though), those battle scenes were cut out of the final print of the episode completely…some 45 seconds that never made it to ANY region DVD. If you read down the page a bit further on Memory Alpha, it states what the BBFC from the R2 version as opposed to what is on the R1 version….and that only lists the neck breaking scene. I don’t think they class the other cut as one because it never made the final print anyway. I may be wrong, though. I have both R1 and R2 episodes and the neck scene is the only difference I’ve ever spotted. Memory Alpha lists the R2 cuts as:

    “The Region 2 release of this episode recuts the moment where the First breaks the neck of the Second as a punishment. Instead of seeing the actual breaking, a shot of Worf is shown. The sound of the bone breaking is also removed.”

    See, as it never mentions the other scenes…I’ve always been led to believe that they never made it to the final print whatsoever. R1 claims itself as completely uncut…so I guess this must be the case.

    >I have never seen DS9 4, Only finished Season 3 a week back, I will get the region 2 version despite the annoying cuts because it is cheaper and it matched the other 3 as well as my other Trek slimline sets.

    Yeah mate, I wouldn’t bother messing about for a few seconds. You can always download the uncut episode anyway….you will have paid for it. Who are the BBFC to rob you? :)

  219. Did anyone notice the DVD “The Lady with a Face” above the BtE DVD in the display cabinet?
    Is that Sophie Winkleman on the cover? The camera pans quite deliberately past it, you can’t miss it.

  220. Why did Rimmer take the condom, apart from the fact he will not get to use them but also he is a hologram so he cannot cause pregnancy.

  221. To sew name labels in them, of course.

  222. >Why did Rimmer take the condom, apart from the fact he will not get to use them but also he is a hologram so he cannot cause pregnancy.

    probably the same reason duane dibbly did.

  223. one thing im really pleaed with is that they didnt spend the 1st 5 mins explaining what had happend already looking forward to the dwarfcast cant wait and BRING ON TOMMOROW

  224. > See, as it never mentions the other scenes?I?ve always been led to believe that they never made it to the final print whatsoever. R1 claims itself as completely uncut?so I guess this must be the case.

    Yeah, no you’re right. I hadn’t read that bit for a while and was assuming it from memory. The comments by Behr and the stunt dude on MA point to it also. To be honest though, I think it flows okay. The neck snap is shitty though. I saw it uncut on Virgin1 last year or whenever it was. I expect I’ll get the R1 eventually, but there’s no rush.

  225. Episode 2 is about to start again on Dave, I will be watching.

  226. Awooga Awooga, Iain Lee just popped up on E4, abandon ship abandon ship!!!

    It turns out it’s just not Red Dwarf he hates, he also has a hatred for Timmy Mallet and Wacaday…

  227. > Where was ?Revenge of the Mutant Splat-Gore Monster??
    > I take it you mean ?Revenge of the Surfboarding Killer Bikini Vampire Girls??!

    Unfortunately, my TV is shit and is not HD ready… in fact, it is thoroughly unprepared for HD… so most of the DVD covers are lost on me. It seems like they are ALL references of some kind, but I can only make out the ones mentioned so far.

    There is a big red poster in the background that read “Revenge of…” and the rest is far too blurry for me to make out.

    As for ‘The Lady with a Face”… it kinda looks like it could be Chloe actually. It doesn’t really look like Sophie Winkleman though. Could be wrong, but I have it paused right now, and I’d say it could well be Chloe.

  228. >anyone else notice the DVD copy of ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things in Your Head? on the shelf?

    What kind of HD do you have exactly? Damn!

  229. My TV is a kind of HD ready…

  230. Whatever peoples opinion of it was, everyone must agree that there’s an AWFUL lot of plot to cover in the last episode. I hope it’s not rushed. I really don’t think it’ll end with the status quo considering how much they’ve got to get through.

    Loved it by the way. I genuinely think Chloe will appear. That picture of her in the magazine, is that just a library shot of her, or is that a new pic? If it’s new, i call cameo in last episode. Bit crap :)

  231. The DVD that Lister picks up first is called ‘This City? What City?’… if that’s a reference it’s lost on me.

  232. >>> I can understand that some people don?t like meta-fiction, but what I don?t get is why they keep watching,

    >In the hope that the show improves.

    In the hope that the show becomes more like what you think it should be.

  233. > As for ?The Lady with a Face?? it kinda looks like it could be Chloe actually. It doesn?t really look like Sophie Winkleman though. Could be wrong, but I have it paused right now, and I?d say it could well be Chloe.

    Could be. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was significant, they seem to deliberately get a long shot of it.

  234. I wondered if the Memento poster in the background was a clue. Because there was also an Alien poster, and that’s an influence on Dwarf. And we know they’ve forgotten the events of Series IX.

    If they end up tattooed on Lister’s leg, we’ll know why!

  235. >Yeah, no you?re right. I hadn?t read that bit for a while and was assuming it from memory. The comments by Behr and the stunt dude on MA point to it also. To be honest though, I think it flows okay. The neck snap is shitty though. I saw it uncut on Virgin1 last year or whenever it was. I expect I?ll get the R1 eventually, but there?s no rush.
    >

    More worrying than the cuts that I’ve found personally, but I’m led to believe I’m in a minority, is that I can hear the 1 semitone increment in sound between NTSC and PAL. I spent a bit of time in the States, where I first watched most of my Trek…then I came home and bought the R2 sets of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. As PAL is played back faster (25FPS as oppose to 23.9…or whatever it is), I notice the higher pitched voices. It still bugs me even now. I play music you see….so I notice slight shifts in tone. Apparently most people can’t tell. It’s a right pisser if you can though. The Doctor on Voyager sounds like a bloody chipmunk! LOL :)

  236. Posters in background for Aliens and Memento… could be significant? I haven’t seen either.

    Cat’s reaction to finding out he, and therefore his good looks, are not real is fucking brilliant. Could have been wildly OTT but he kept it about as subtle as you could really considering. In fact, Danny was in full Cat mode in this episode… he seemed a bit off in Pt 1 for some reason, but he nailed it in Pt 2.

  237. > there was also an Alien poster

    Is that an official Aliens poster? It had Ripley and Newt on it, but I don’t recognise it.

  238. “The first thing Lister noticed about her was that she had a FACE…” got to be Chloe.

  239. Even though I absolutely loved it, I did notice a few things that stuck out to me. Lister being puzzled by a hand dryer? Cat in series VIII used a hand dryer reference when he was insulting Holly. Surely Lister knows the purpose of a hand dryer?

  240. >Also, after the revelation that Kochanski MAY have dumped Lister due to >deteriorating mental state (drinking, despondancy) and Katerina?s ?his body is >alive but inside he is dead?? could Kochanski have orchestrated Katerina?s sudden >arrival, to shake some life back into Lister?

    Good point, I’m getting that vibe too, and thinking Katerina is Kochanski in some way. Add Kryten’s comments about her record being too perfect. It certainly makes the grave scene more relevant to the over all plot of this three parter than just a way of dispensing with the character. I was so into the story, comedy, mystery and referencing in this that I forgot to say how awesome all the effects were done in this part of the story, the coming through the tv screens is the most excited ive been watching Dwarf since the end of series five.

  241. > What kind of HD do you have exactly? Damn!

    A 32 inch black-ribbed knobbler.

    > picture of her in the magazine, is that just a library shot of her, or is that a new pic?

    Looked a lot like a recent picture as I noticed that she looked older. In a nice way.

    She might make a cameo…but I doubt she’ll be immediately returning to the crew at the end of the episodes.

    Looking forward to a whole Series 10 of Listy leading the gang on a cosmos-spanning Kochanski chase so that he can win her back, move up and down on her rapidly and get her in a white dress and on a horse.

    Or will it be Series 11? Didn’t they mention in the episode that “Back to Earth” takes place “Soon after series 10”?

  242. Mr Flibble:

    If they end up tattooed on Lister?s leg, we?ll know why!

    Caption competition time!

    U=_____

    Start guessing now!

  243. >More worrying than the cuts that I?ve found personally, but I?m led to believe I?m in a minority, is that I can hear the 1 semitone increment in sound between NTSC and PAL. I spent a bit of time in the States, where I first watched most of my Trek?then I came home and bought the R2 sets of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. As PAL is played back faster (25FPS as oppose to 23.9?or whatever it is), I notice the higher pitched voices. It still bugs me even now. I play music you see?.so I notice slight shifts in tone. Apparently most people can?t tell. It?s a right pisser if you can though. The Doctor on Voyager sounds like a bloody chipmunk! LOL :)

    Oh my god! I notice the exact same thing, and you’re the first person i’ve heard other than me talk about it. I work at the beeb and even the sound engineers there don’t have a clue what i mean!

    I first noticed it years ago when i would download theme tunes from my favourite American shows off the internet and would get annoyed because they were too slow and i didn’t know why. I obviously found out later that it’s pitch correction so that NTSC footage could be converted to PAL without the sound being out of sync.

    I find it weird how no one notices. It’s blatently obvious to me, especially when music is played.

    The annoying thing is now i’m so used to the faster versions that i’m starting to buy Blurays of American shows and they just sound so wrong because the footage is transferred at the correct speed on Bluray.

  244. I wondered if the Memento poster in the background was a clue.

    One could probably argue that reading what to do off the back of the box is fairly Memento like, I suppose.

    (Sorry for replying to myself, didn’t want to upset the order)

  245. >Posters in background for Aliens and Memento? could be significant? I haven?t seen either.

    Aliens!!!

    Memento is the movie about a man this memory loss. A great film, presented to the viewer in backwards scene order from end to beginning.

  246. Is that an official Aliens poster? It had Ripley and Newt on it, but I don?t recognise it.

    Empire’s recent 500 Greatest Movies issue had 100 different covers. I got their Aliens cover, and it looked like that poster.

  247. Just thinking – these specials really wouldn’t work with an audience.

    The whole metaficiton nature calls into question whether we’re watching a show or reality…and that kind of reality-crossing wouldn’t really work with audience laughter all the way through. If you see what I mean.

  248. so any more red dwarf series would just be a prequel? :S

  249. Well Doug said he would make Series X (though he must have meant Series XI).

  250. Interesting that the original “leaked” synopsis for Part Three was actually used in this episode as the DVD cover copy…

  251. “Holly Hop Drive”

    “Back on Red Dwarf!”

    “Antimatter paddle”

    “Back on Red Dwarf!”

    “Timeslides?”

    “Back on Red Dwarf!”

    “Beam there!”

    “That’s Star Trek!”

    Just watching it again. So much to take in.

    “What’s it like having a whole TV channel named after yer?”

    And then of course the logo was Dave Lister later.

    >Interesting that the original ?leaked? synopsis for Part Three was actually used in this episode as the DVD cover copy?

    And the photo of the driver guy was the one we’d already seen. Really nice touches.

  252. I find it weird how no one notices. It?s blatently obvious to me, especially when music is played.

    I notice it too – it is occasionally quite distracting.

    Also, it’s very odd to have people mention Memory Alpha here (I’m an admin there)…

  253. Thinking about it, some people said the crew should be more shocked its a tv show. However they’re in an alternate dimension so it isn’t really that shocking. It’s just something weird about a dimension that isn’t their own. Kinda like how easily they accepted men give birth in parallel universe.

  254. Kryten was definitely lying about Kochanski’s death for real. I only noticed his reaction to Lister reading it from the synopsis on Dave ja vu. Chloe has to make an appearance at the end if there’s to be any point to this story thread. I’m predicting the whole situation is Krissie getting her own back, both on Lister and Rimmer, and that Red Dwarf as a TV show is something she has devised as a trick.

  255. The little boy on the bus reminded me of John Shuttleworth.

  256. Innovative, over the top, metaphysical, ideally suited for an episode of Red Dwarf. It just works so well. The comedy was well paced, not too over done in places. I thought that I would hate seeing the crew self aware and completely breaking the forth wall, however I found that I loved it; the whole premise is just perfect for a show that has been poking fun at Sci-fi concepts, television shows and beliefs and then for a parody like silly concept where they themselves discover they are characters for a show, well it just tops the boat storywise. The poking fun at Red Dwarf/ Sci-Fi fans as a whole was just spot on. It’s like the ultimate Red Dwarf story, it genuinely feels like a homage in part to the history of Dwarf and then also a tribute to reinvention, unparalleled convention breaker. This is what I love about Red Dwarf.

  257. >Oh my god! I notice the exact same thing, and you?re the first person i?ve heard other than me talk about it. I work at the beeb and even the sound engineers there don?t have a clue what i mean!

    AH! I’ve noticed this too. Couldn’t find any reference of it on the web.

    First notice when switching audio tracks on a Futurama DVD. The tone between the PAL episode and the (converted NTSC) commentary is really noticeable – especially during the theme tune.

    Cheers for solving the mystery!

  258. Also they had just realised they will die if they stay in this ‘dimension/reality’. I think if you knew you were going to die that would take priority over everything else.

  259. Also they had just realised they will die if they stay in this ‘dimension/reality’. I think if you knew you were going to die that would take priority over everything else.

  260. Empire?s recent 500 Greatest Movies issue had 100 different covers. I got their Aliens cover, and it looked like that poster.

    It’s s reproduction of the original 1986 cinema quad poster.

  261. So the film (Memento) is presented backwards?

    Is that what’s happening here? Could it be that rather than the characters from the TV sitcom Red Dwarf coming out of a TV screen into the real world, its actually the actors being dragged out of the real world and INTO the TV universe, where they have no memories of their life on Earth. Therefore, rather than dismissing the adventures of the crew as a fictional TV show (as Pt 2 seemed to do), it actually legitimizes them as even more real than they were previously.

    That’s why Lister (aka the actor Craig Charles) finds himself stranded in deep space with no memory of getting there and ends up joining the Space Corps.

  262. > The little boy on the bus reminded me of John Shuttleworth.

    He were probably on his way to the Crich Tram Museum…or to the park to play on his space hopper. You know, making the most of what remained of that summer’s day.

  263. Doug said he’d do series 10 and not 9. Surely 9 is the series without Kochanski in it?

    A prequel series. Id like to see that very much.

  264. Interesting that the original ?leaked? synopsis for Part Three was actually used in this episode as the DVD cover copy?

    We had leaked script extracts!

  265. Yes it was, he was wearing a cap.

  266. Heh – the TV showing “Polymorph” is widescreen, and is set to the wrong aspect ratio, like mine often is when swapping between 16:9 and 4:3 shows…

  267. Is that what?s happening here?
    [snip]
    That?s why Lister (aka the actor Craig Charles) finds himself stranded in deep space with no memory of getting there and ends up joining the Space Corps.

    I reckon we’re going something along those lines. There must be some element of memory loss and backwards reacquisition of knowledge in there somewhere.

  268. Any comments on Dougs directing?

    Some of jokes are very subtle, and thats a strong point in these new episodes. Yet, when they’re in your face, they still work well too.

  269. > Thinking about it, some people said the crew should be more shocked its a tv show. However they?re in an alternate dimension so it isn?t really that shocking. It?s just something weird about a dimension that isn?t their own. Kinda like how easily they accepted men give birth in parallel universe.

    Yeah, but rather than just accept that “these are the laws of this dimension”, they start freaking out about not being real (as if the law of this universe would still apply if/when they go back to their own), and go off to beg for more time. Doesn’t quite sit right.

  270. The magazine that Lister reads in the bus, the one with the picture of Chloe and her kids you can just make a out the writing. It says Mr. Flibble at the start, and a totally made up paragraph follows. I’m sure you’ll be able to read the whole thing on Blu-Ray! There was quite a few cameo’s going on as well. Mike Seymour outside the comic shop. Howard Burden and Jo Howard going up the elevator, and the very attractive make-up lady, can’t remember her name. In the shop. Aliens poster as well as Memento. Other video cover was possibly Space Cop Police Squad.

  271. >P.S. I assume the Series 10 thing as well as the fan club president etc being >different was to establish this was an alternate universe to ours as well as theirs?

    Or it was to get a joke name in, and I think it’s always better to rename the original people for professional legal reasons. And the real fan club president is in episode three I believe briefly!!

  272. The way Chris says “Science Officer” is rather odd…

  273. > Could it be that rather than the characters from the TV sitcom Red Dwarf coming out of a TV screen into the real world, its actually the actors being dragged out of the real world and INTO the TV universe, where they have no memories of their life on Earth. Therefore, rather than dismissing the adventures of the crew as a fictional TV show (as Pt 2 seemed to do), it actually legitimizes them as even more real than they were previously.

    Oh no. I’ve gone cross-eyed.

  274. That… was… AWESOME!!! I’m so glad I avoided any major spoilers, I enjoyed it so much better for it. :) Some random thoughts:

    I’ve fallen asleep to my DVDs before and had really cool Red Dwarf dreams, and I swear, when I was watching that, it was just like I was dreaming it… it was so cool, but so trippy!

    I swear, I totally thought the comic book guy was Rob Grant, he sounded so much like him! I know, Rob doesn’t have a Scouse accent, but he did one for Lister when he narrated ‘Backwards’, and it really sounded like him, not to mention looked not unlike him as well!

    And speaking of, stylistically and storywise, that episode even more than last night’s had the feel of an adaption of a Red Dwarf book, rather than of the old shows, which is fine, because I really enjoyed all the books. :) That part on the bus especially kind of reminded me of ‘Better than Life’. Very sweet and poignent as well. Though at first I was rolling my eyes a bit at the premise, I really did end up enjoying it immensely.

    I usually agree that Rimmer is a total smeghead, but I must admit I was totally behind him and laughed my ass off when he dispatched Katerina, especially given the conversation which preceeded it. Too hilarious – bitch *had* to go! I loved Kryten’s reaction as well, even if, unlike him, I actually *didn’t* see it coming (though I wasn’t surprised when it did). :)

    This one didn’t seem to fly by quite as quickly, which was nice, but then again, it was ten minutes longer, wasn’t it? It really does seem a bit like ‘Lord of the Rings’, though, where it was meant to be one big epic but they were requested to split it, because the endings just feel totally chopped, there’s no sense of a proper end of the episode on either of the two we’ve seen.

    Of course, it’s not like it picked right up where the last one left off, so I’m guessing they’re not going to just edit them all into one big movie length feature on the DVD (at least, it wouldn’t seem so, though who knows? Well, probably Andrew, LOL), but in any case, I can’t wait to see them all together on Monday.

    Anyhoo, hubby’s going to show me Blade Runner now, seeing as I’m a total heathen who’s never actually seen it (though of course, I know a bit about it), so that’s me off. So chuffed BtE has exceeded all my expectations!

    P.S. I assume the Series 10 thing as well as the fan club president etc being different was to establish this was an alternate universe to ours as well as theirs?

    ~~~~~

    Edit: Now I’ve skimmed the comments:

    > OOH OOOH OOOOHHH?
    >
    > Forgot to say.

    Me too… :)

    > In addition to the Mugs Murphy DVD, did anyone else
    > notice the DVD copy of ?Die Screaming with Sharp Things
    > in Your Head? on the shelf?

    I totally pointed out the Mugs Murphy thing to my hubby – lovely bit of detail! – but the weird thing is, though the ‘Die’ stood out to me, and I thought there might have been more than one self-reference there, I couldn’t actually place it at the time (probably due in no small part to the fact that I couldn’t actually read it). Thanks for mentioning it!

  275. > hubby?s going to show me Blade Runner now, seeing as I?m a total heathen who?s never actually seen it

    You’ll enjoy it all the more once you’ve seen Bladerunner.
    (There’s a nod to Bladerunner in Justice too)

  276. James / Sat, 2009-04-11 23:56

    The magazine that Lister reads in the bus, the one with the picture of Chloe and her kids you can just make a out the writing. It says Mr. Flibble at the start, and a totally made up paragraph follows. I?m sure you?ll be able to read the whole thing on Blu-Ray!

    Could it be her Mr Flibble interview?

  277. so if series 10 turns into a prequel then that will mean everything thats happening in back to earth is real :S, wont it? or its all pointless

  278. Having now watched it three times (three times is enough, I’ll burn out on the damn thing before my Pts 1 and 2 rewatch tomorrow prior to Pt 3) my opinion has improved. Not that I didn’t like it to begin with, but I found it less funny than a lot of people here on my first impression.

    There are a lot of unanswered questions and plot holes, but I’m just hoping that, at the very least, the worst offenders will be cleared up tomorrow (and that some of the others may be expanded upon if there’s an Extended cut on the DVD, and were simply dropped for time).

    All in all, another good episode. Rather different to Pt 1. A lot less in the way of CGI and effects, bar the opening few minutes. Anyone else notice that the “Too weird for words” line on the Red Dwarf poster in the DVD store was superimposed onto the original picture? I mean, even the poster itself could have been superimposed in theory, but the “Too weird…” line was seperate.

    Not as much in the way of funny inter-character banter, but laid on the funnies in other ways, with all the back referencing and convention acknowledging, which I hope didn’t serve to alienate casual viewers too much. I can see why critics who attended the premiere weren’t too kind to it… this is a present to the fans, but I can see how it would go over the heads of any new viewers.

    Can you imagine the faces of a bunch of non-Dwarf viewing media/critic types watching Back to Earth in some theatre in London somewhere? Fuck their opinions, they so rarely reflect my own that I can’t put any stock into them.

  279. > Also, it?s very odd to have people mention Memory Alpha here (I?m an admin there)?

    Good site, that.

    Anyway, I love Roberts delivery of “no, we don’t do that,” after the ‘that’s Star Trek’ comment. He sounded so official.

    Also, those two guys who were on the spacecorpsdirective site that were wearing Ace t-shirts… that was the back of the one with dreads head when the cast were walking to the sci-fi shop, wasn’t it? I think this means there must be more material on the DVD, as from what we’ve heard he was definitely involved more than a second of the back of his head.

  280. > You?ll enjoy it all the more once you?ve seen Bladerunner.

    I’m planning on watching it all together on Monday, so no doubt I’ll pick up a lot more then (though the other half did clue me in to the bits he picked up). :)

    > (There?s a nod to Bladerunner in Justice too)

    Ah, cool, he never mentioned that; prolly forgot, it’s been awhile since he’s actually seen it!

  281. > I love Roberts delivery of ?no, we don?t do that,? after the ?that?s Star Trek? comment. He sounded so official.

    This!

  282. I love that they try and find their creators — the same ones happily listed on the back of said DVDs.

  283. > Yeah, but rather than just accept that ?these are the laws of this dimension?, they start freaking out about not being real (as if the law of this universe would still apply if/when they go back to their own), and go off to beg for more time. Doesn?t quite sit right.

    Good point, well made. Now i’ve seen it again Katerina tells them they don’t exist before going into the portal. Her saying that has to reinforce the crews belief they’re fictional in all dimensions. Although Rimmer actually liking the fact he’s not real doesn’t seem right.

    (also i had a horrible thought they might wake up in the AR suite from season 8 and are still on trial for their crimes. If it happens i called it lol)

  284. RE: Red Dwarf 8 dream sequence – thought that last night. Dear God, we can only hope not. Still, it would be an excuse to reuse some blue midget dancing footage…

  285. Robert said on his Twitter account that the version they saw wasn’t split into episodes and was a bit different to what we have seen. He also said that they had shot too much for 3 episodes, so hopefully this’ll all be on the DVD.

  286. > Also, those two guys who were on the spacecorpsdirective site that were wearing Ace t-shirts? that was the back of the one with dreads head when the cast were walking to the sci-fi shop, wasn?t it? I think this means there must be more material on the DVD, as from what we?ve heard he was definitely involved more than a second of the back of his head

    Yep. In one of the Dave making-ofs, they interview this guy. He just happened to be around when they were shooting and just happened to be wearing an Ace Rimmer T-Shirt.

    They filmed a little scene of him double-taking the crew as they walked past him but it seems to have been snipped.

  287. There are carbug models coming into collectors shops soon apparently.

  288. > And isn?t it strange how Katharina suddenly appeared/found the crew.

    Almost as if she’s following a trail of paper squid-type breadcrumbs.

    Cat’s a naughty person!

  289. Good episode with lot’s of laugh out loud moments.
    Feels it should be watched directly after part1 and not seperatly.

    Just finished reading all the comments.
    It seems i’ve missed several details in the background of this episode.
    Too busy laughing i gues.
    Shall watch it again to spot them this time round.

    I also think that the origami that the Cat folds looks very much like a squid.
    And isn’t it strange how Katharina suddenly appeared/found the crew.
    Something fishy about her and it’s not fishpaste or Lister’s trainers.

  290. > Yep. In one of the Dave making-ofs, they interview this guy. He just happened to be around when they were shooting and just happened to be wearing an Ace Rimmer T-Shirt.
    They filmed a little scene of him double-taking the crew as they walked past him but it seems to have been snipped.

    That was what I meant, couldn’t remember where it was from.

    Anyway with this and Robert’s twitter we now pretty much know for sure that there will be more on the DVD. Excellent.

    Oh yeah, and whoever said Cat’s origami looks like the squid as it shoots out of the water tank and is appears is right. That must be what it is.

  291. Oh God, now Noddy’s on the boards. This meta thing is getting Too Weird For Words.

  292. Loved the whole “matter paddle/back on Red Dwarf/teleporter/this isn’t Star Trek!” and the Psi-Scanner scenes.

    Still absolutely loving ‘Back to Earth’!

  293. How’s the reaction been from other sites?

  294. Pretty sure Back to Earth isn’t going to be my thing. Ah well.

    I’m 2/3 of the way through part 2 (waiting for youtube to serve me the third segment) and…eh.

    Whatever. I’m not laughing; that’s my issue. Two very good moments (there were two last night, too…maybe it’s the magic number) but the rest, so far, is just kind of THERE.

    They don’t feel like characters to me. They feel like cutouts that are shaped like the characters, being pulled along on the plot-string.

    “We’re fictional creations?”
    “I guess so. I’m holding a DVD with my picture on it, so let’s track down our creators and plead for life.”
    “Off we go then!!!”

    The entire plot has been handled by the characters with such a nonchalant shrug that I have to assume the immediate acceptance of “A knight escaped from the AR machine and killed Rimmer” was down to the fact that their brains melted–in universe–as a result of the paradox that closed Out of Time.

    Also: the tomato sequence from yesterday and the hilaaaaaaaaarious spread-cheeks gag today proves better than VIII ever did that Doug doesn’t write good bunkroom material anymore. It was nice to see the set, though. Both times. Maybe those scenes were designed to be viewed on mute.

  295. I just finished watching it. My husband was sitting across the room from me at his computer asking “Are they supposed to be doing Blade Runner?” DUH. MUCH funnier than Pt. I, IMO. I did not need the visual of Lister’s unfortunate restroom visit, but still funny. What was hilarious to me was the whole ridiculous BR photo-res scene. Even the DH thought that was pretty funny. Loved the rundown of transportation devices. (“That’s Star Trek!”) I don’t think I can say enough how much I loved this episode!

    Rimmer keeping the 3 pack…hahahahah!

  296. Is the Cat folding the Origami figures because cats are believed to have a so called six sence?

  297. > They don?t feel like characters to me. They feel like >cutouts that are shaped like the characters, being pulled >along on the plot-string.

    >?We?re fictional creations??
    >?I guess so. I?m holding a DVD with my picture on it, so >let?s track down our creators and plead for life.?
    >?Off we go then!!!?

    Agree 100%. I just don`t think Doug can do character stuff. A great shame.

    The scene finding Swallow`s address was crowbarred in again and out of character. Then the punchline was nicked from Rimmerworld (but nowhere near as funny).

  298. i found the scene where they are looking at the DVDs to be so hard to watch and take seriously

    i watched it at least 3 times to get used to it, not happened

  299. Cant say i was overall impressed by part 2. Preferred part one. However i just came to realize something that hasn’t been mentioned before(to my knowledge lol) Anyways, cat was leaving the origami squid things around(blade runner), is there the possibility that this entire story is linked to Cat? In part one he mentions he was about to be eaten by the squid only to blank out and wake up on G-deck.

    P.S Wheres tonight’s Dwarfcast? really enjoyed the first one!!!

  300. Ok, this is me being very dense, but you know the scene where they need money and Rimmer says “Money, I know where to find some.”? Then suddenly there’s some mobile phones, money and junk on the table.

    Was the suggestion they picked people pockets? Sorry if it’s really obvious.

  301. >Was the suggestion they picked people pockets? Sorry if it?s really obvious.

    They went through the couch cushions. Tee hee!

  302. No, they were getting money from the back of a couch.

  303. They found the stuff behind the sofa cushions.

  304. Oh, ok. I did think of sofa cushions, but then I thought about the shere volume of stuff….

    In hindsight that is obviously the joke. Yes. I am this universe’s Holly*. It takes me a while but I get there in the end. Mostly.

    *That’s just asking for a Norman Lovett gag isn’t it?

  305. This is more like it.

    Yesterday my parents just looked at me at the end and said “Was that good?” having sat stony-faced for half an hour.

    I watched this with my family and we laughed. We laughed like it was 1993.

  306. Dave what IS it like having a whole TV channel named after you?

  307. Just rewatching the episode.

    Judging by the way Kryten reacts in the background when the shopkeeper tells Lister about Kochanski being sucked out of an airlock, could it been true?

  308. He reacts that same way twice upon mentions of Kochanski’s death. In the DVD section and in the sci-fi shop.

    I reckon she’s living seperately on V deck, and has formed a bond with Kryten who went to stay with her.

  309. > “We?re fictional creations??
    > ?I guess so. I?m holding a DVD with my picture on it, so let?s track down our > creators and plead for life.?
    > ?Off we go then!!!?

    Erm. No. They quite obviously decide to track down their creators because THAT’S WHAT IT SAYS THEY DO IN THE BLURB. It’s not just some random “Oh let’s go track them down because we’re on a DVD”. They have nothing else to go on, they’re confused about being fictional characters, but the DVD seems to know what happens to them and tells them what they should be doing. This is the reason they also go to the comic shop.

    Anyway. My thoughts overall are very positive. Loved the first part of the episode from the off, it was filled with great laugh out loud stuff. My favourite was the bloke ranting about the sci-scan followed by “the sci-scan says he’s a petty, know all man with a small penis” lines! Absolutely hilarious. Other highlights from first 10mins were Cat’s classic dance entrance and Rimmers “Oh God I hate 3 parters”. When that ad break came on I was so worried it was Dave cocking it up again that I missed the joke but on a second watch it seems fairly clear it was intended.

    The second half felt very strange to me first time round and I didn’t laugh as much because it was more of a “what the hell’s going on, I can’t take in all the story AND concentrate on the jokes” situation. I’m still a bit confused as to why the audience in the show have seen a Series IX and X but we haven’t though…I did notice A LOT of Bladerunner references in the second half. The oragami, the guy in the big cold warehouse who does noses (instead of eyes!), Rimmer tracking the address on the photo (which was carried out to a ridiculous extent but was GENIUS because of it), and the snake scale. Maybe a couple more as well. I do worry however that those segments weren’t funny to people who haven’t seen Bladerunner. Was watching with my dad and he didn’t laugh much at those bits as he hasn’t seen it. Meanwhile I was giggling away!

    Additionally the second half seemed much funnier the second time I watched it. The comic shop stuff is awesome. The guy renamed himself Reg Warf! Fandom to the extreme! The suggestions of how to travel to where they need to go and “Its on Red Dwarf!” followed by “Thats Star Trek!!” hahahaha. The kids on the bus bugged me a bit but I think that’s just me being annoyed by child actors in general hehe. Interesting about Chole, I wouldn’t bet against her making an appearance tomorrow. A lot to cram in in part 3 though, I thought Lister was supposed to be getting seperated from the crew? They can’t get seperated and reunited and solve everything and get back to Red Dwarf in one episode surely?! How the hell were they EVER going to do this in 2 parts?! This story needs a full 6/8 part series to do it justice!!

    Last couple of points. In the comic shop did anyone notice Norm on that Red Dwarf fan thing next to the SFX magazine? He’ll sue if he finds out they used his image!!! :P

    And finally when they were all getting sucked into the portal and then landing in the store it felt VERY film-like. VERY. If I had gone to see this story in a cinema as a film I’d have been totally happy. And whilst having it on TV in 3 parts clearly isn’t the best way to watch it us fans shouldn’t be moaning about that and having a go at Dave. If it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t be seeing this in any form at all. So they chopped it up and put it on over 3 nights to maximise interest over a longer period. Big deal. We’ll have our long, extended, cut together versions on DVD soon enough. Just be thankful to Dave for giving us this!! I don’t want it to end tomorrow! :-(

  310. >Erm. No. They quite obviously decide to track down their creators because THAT?S WHAT IT SAYS THEY DO IN THE BLURB.

    That doesn’t really affect my summary, though. It’s just a facilitator. If it makes you feel better:

    “We?re fictional creations??
    ?I guess so. I?m holding a DVD with my picture on it, so let?s track down our creators and plead for life. That’s what it says we do.?
    ?Off we go then!!!?

    That doesn’t appeal to me any more than it did previously.

    I’d imagine it would be kind of like finding a novel in a store, called The Adventures of Phil or something, and the back cover blurb was full of things that I’ve done in my life.

    Would I research it? Yes.

    Would I immediately jump to the conclusion that I am and always have been a fictional character AND be just as immediately cool with it?

    I’m going to have to answer with a “probably not.”

    But what do I know. My main gripe with the episodes is that they’re not making me laugh. If I laugh, I don’t care what kind of crappy plot they hang the jokes on. If I’m NOT laughing, I’m much more aware of what the episode isn’t bothering to do.

    I know, I’m heartless.

  311. >Dave what IS it like having a whole TV channel named after you?

    I’m a little worried that I’ll discover in Part Three that I don’t exist and Iain Lee is simply a voice in my head

  312. Carl, you’d could be right.
    There definitly something going on, maybe it’s a subplot or something for the next series.

  313. I’ve never seen BladeRunner, and although I may have missed a reference or two, I thought tonight’s was brilliant.

  314. Just had a look over at the forum on the official site for the first time ever.

    Christ, there’s a frightening amount of simpletons on there.

    Not necessarily opinions-wise…(though many are extremely negative)…just in the way that they express those opinions with all the grace and coherency of a heavily drunk gorilla.

  315. Having watched both parts together now I must admit this new modern Dwarf is feeling more natural then it did 24 hours ago. Infact if a full series was made like this with the more mature characters and lack of laughter track, I wouldn’t mind at all!

    Of course a proper series [presuming it’d be Series X] would have to be based on Dwarf, but I’m sure they’ll end up there before the end of Part 3.

  316. Like Phil, my main problem is the lack of humour. I’m not going to discuss that any further though because no matter how many times I say it some people still insist on interpreting my feelings as just hating on the show. Fair enough. Whatever. You clearly fail to grasp the simple premise that I want a comedy show to be funny.

    So let’s talk about something else, shall we? Here’s a big plot point that stuck out horribly for me tonight – did nobody else think the idea of Kryten telling Lister that Kochanski was dead if she really wasn’t was also out of character? To lie to that extent – when we’ve seen before that Kryten still struggles with lying unless his behaviour protocols have been disabled. And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died? And based on how she was portrayed in series VII and VIII, is it even remotely credible that Kochanski would be the kind of person to do a runner if a friend was falling to pieces and needed help?

  317. Most of those points are, to be fair to Richey, pretty good ones no matter how much I enjoyed the episode.

  318. This is presuming that we’re now aware Red Dwarf is a TV Show, so plot goes out the window. Infact the ‘plot’ could be that she wanted to be written out, and so that’s how the ‘writers’ wrote Kochanski out.

    Plus Kryten has been able to lie in the past quite a few times. Whether it’s to Camile, or the Psychiatric Councilor. Plus in 9 years his abilities will have grown in strength probably… also, it’s part of the ‘plot’ we’re meant to believe has already been written.

    Normal logic goes out the window once you remember the plot, is that Dwarf is scripted. And that what is now a plot, is infact meant to be geniune… ooo my head hurts…

  319. > This is presuming that we?re now aware Red Dwarf is a TV Show, so plot goes out the window.

    I’m sorry my friend, but that comes across as a pretty poor excuse for bad writing.

  320. Could it be that the reason they are acting out of character and bad things are happening seemingly without rhyme or reason is because somebody eeeeevil has sabotaged the writing of the show (kidnapped Doug Naylor?), which will become evident in Pt 3?

    And the final battle will be the Dwarfers attempting to remove the evil writer/producer and reinstalling the real world status quo before the eeeeevil writer, having taken perverse pleasure in bringing them to their lowest ebb, has the chance to kill them.

    That’s why Kryten pushed Kochanski out of an air lock (assumption), that’s why Lister was miserable and drinking himself to death BEFORE Kochanski died, that’s why Rimmer died AGAIN for the third time, that’s why Holly was destroyed, that’s why they act out of character, that’s why a leviathan and Katerina just popped up out of nowhere and nobody questioned it… in recent times, they have become puppets on the string of an evil writer.

    Reminds me a bit of a Charmed episode I saw once…

  321. There are a lot of unanswered questions, and although i enjoyed the episodes very much, i will admit like i said above that the last episode has a lot of questions to answer, and i really don’t think it’ll manage anywhere near answering all of them in the 30 minute slot. Unless it does another ‘To be Continued in another 10 years….’. Which i’m guessing it probably might :)

  322. Besides, I’m sure by the conclusion all of this will have been forgotten by the crew. Afterall I really can’t see the product working in future if the crew are always aware that they are television characters. It’s a fair enough conclusion if it were the full stop at the end of the Red Dwarf timeline, but seeing it’s meant to be left open at the end [as in a new series is plausable] I’m sure this will all be covered up eventually.

  323. > Unless it does another ?To be Continued in another 10 years?.?. Which i?m guessing it probably might :)

    Should that happen, I predict emergency rooms across the UK will be inundated with Red Dwarf fans suffering from skull fractures as a direct result of banging their heads repeatedly against walls in frustration.

  324. The child actors were really good, too.

    No, wait. Not good. That other four-lettered word.

  325. Lister’s line about the banks, whilst topical, seemed unneccessary and crowbarred in.

  326. I love that whenever they want to do a topical gag, they used to stick in ‘In the latter half of the 20th century…..’, now they’re saying ‘In the early part of the 21st Century…’ See Rimmers X-Factor gag and Listers bank gag for details :)

  327. > Lister?s line about the banks, whilst topical, seemed unneccessary and crowbarred in.

    Seemed totally pointless to me. I was waiting for the punchline and all we got was:

    RIMMER: Yes, I remember learning about that in history.

    :\

  328. I don’t care what you lot think. I’m loving it, and am somewhat saddened by the fact that there’s only one more episode, then we’ll be waiting again…

  329. > I was waiting for the punchline and all we got was:
    > RIMMER: Yes, I remember learning about that in history.

    Even better: we had to wait for Rimmer to WALK IN FROM OFF CAMERA to deliver that woofer. Time well spent.

  330. Si, I’m glad you enjoyed the episode mate. I am. I don’t want or need you to care about what I think. But there’s nothing wrong with discussing praise and criticism on a fan site. Please don’t think I’m trying to be a killjoy, okay? I was so excited about these episodes and I’m saddened that they haven’t done anything for me. But they did for you – so that’s what counts.

  331. More worrying than the cuts that I?ve found personally, but I?m led to believe I?m in a minority, is that I can hear the 1 semitone increment in sound between NTSC and PAL. I spent a bit of time in the States, where I first watched most of my Trek?then I came home and bought the R2 sets of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY. As PAL is played back faster (25FPS as oppose to 23.9?or whatever it is), I notice the higher pitched voices. It still bugs me even now. I play music you see?.so I notice slight shifts in tone. Apparently most people can?t tell. It?s a right pisser if you can though. The Doctor on Voyager sounds like a bloody chipmunk! LOL :)

    I can hear it too. It’s very noticeable on my PAL Battlestar Galactica ’04 DVDs, particularly as I first discovered the show when a co-worker lent me his NTSC Region 1 DVDs.

    Anyway: Part Two was magnificent. Roll on Part Three!

  332. > And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died?

    I wonder if The Samaritans hand out that advice when people call in because they are worried about a loved one.

    `Simply fake your own death and he`ll turn that frown upside down in no time.` :-)

    I don`t think that the plotholes will all be put down to some evil writer on the show as the equilibrium will probably be restored by the end. The crew must come to realise this is all an illusion or it would be ridiculously shit.

  333. I wish they examined more what they thought about their fictional counterparts, like when Rimmer disputes his supposed neuroses at the bus stop. For me that was the funniest part of the episode. And I don’t find the real-world references as amusing as the rest of you, I guess. Mainly cuz there’s not a lot of skill to it.

    Also, I have to echo the concern that they were far too accepting of their situation, given they were in an alternate reality and everything they’ve been through – it didn’t even merit a discussion. Instead they took turns having ‘hilarious’ reactions.

  334. I doubt it’s an illusion, it’s just a product of the dimension they are in. When they return to their own dimension, there’s no question of them ever having been fictional characters there in their own time, just in the crazy dimension of BtE.

  335. What about the photos in the background of the scene with Rimmer and Lister infront of the Bunk Beds (in Smashers) – over Listers shoulder on the wall is a framed photo of “Listers father” from series 1/2 (the pic of the dog on a lead) “HE’Syour father!”

    A weirder plot I haven’t seen since Mulberry.

  336. Part two… much better than part one, and I quite enjoyed part one! Quite a lot still to cover, definitely looking forward to the conclusion to this one. Loved the CSI part!

  337. Well, after catching the repeat viewing, I’m still unimpressed personally. The writing just feels lackluster. The characters aren’t acting naturally, they feel like they’re just pawns being moved from A to B to C with no real rhyme or reason. They don’t question or challenge their situation, just blind acceptance with no conflict. There’s a tonne of implied back story that’s happened between Only The Good… and BTE, but it’s not been adequately explained or explored – and without that slant on things, it really detracts from Lister’s story. We’d care more if we saw (or at least had more in-depth info on) what’s affected him.

    In fact, so far at least, the plot even feels like a re-tread. The League of Gentlemen’s Apocalypse has already done a similar set up, only with better jokes and execution. Red Dwarf itself has done a variant of this ‘alternate world’ story better and more effectively already in Back To Reality.

    And it feels padded, even if the episodes seem to whizz by so quickly. I’m starting to think this maybe would have been better as the original two parter.

    The comedy is by the numbers, generic “wry smile, but that’s it” gags. There’s no real mining of any of the inherent comedic situations. In the comic shop, in the mall, on the bus, on the tube, there was a treasure trove of possible situations – but it was barely broached, just stuffed with bored one liners. But then again at least there was some comedy in it, unlike the comedy wasteland of part one.

    On the plus side, the cast seem to be having fun, even if they’ve fallen into the trap of overplaying things, trying to deliver each line comedicly instead of delivering funny material straightly (although in all fairness, this started in areas of series VII and most of series VIII…). The production values continue to be spectacular though, very very well done. Great visuals, great sound, loads of specific fan easter eggs that aren’t intrusive… in this area, Red Dwarf has never been better.

    Unfortunately, the greatest production values and background detailing in the world are for naught if the writing’s not up to scratch… and it’s not, quite frankly. The writing is the biggest stumbling block. Doug Naylor needs a strict script editor, or Rob Grant. I just don’t think his sole efforts can quite reach it.

    People will argue that Red Dwarf needs to evolve, but the evolution needs to benefit the show, not hinder it… and removing the laugh track really hurts it, and wipes a lot of energy from the show.

    Maybe part three will redeem it for me. But that’s a BIG maybe.

    What really chafes my nuts, is that I wanted to love this new show to bits. I wanted to be able to embrace a worthy, hilarious, character led return to form with this new addition to the Dwarf universe, and in my opinion, it just doesn’t measure up. I’m a huge Dwarf fan, I’ll always love the show… but these new ones just aren’t doing it for me… and I hate that… but that’s the way it is. I’ll be watching part three, out of a car crash mentality… I’ll be buying the DVD (mainly because I’m a completist, and I know it’ll have awesome bonus bits). I’ll always want more new Dwarf, in the hope that it’ll get better, but on the back of this… *sigh*.

    I’m glad some people are getting kicks out of this and enjoying though. I don’t see how, but I’m glad others are getting something positive out of it.

    Well, that’s my thoughts so far, for what’s it worth.

  338. >And what was all that stuff the kids were saying about Lister drinking himself to death and basically becoming despondent and depressed BEFORE her supposed death? Surely this is how he would become AFTER he learned Kochanski had died?

    Apparently, you’ve never lived with an alcoholic. They don’t have to be depressed or need a reason to drink. And obviously, yes, he’s somewhat depressed about her being gone, but we really don’t have a clue as to how he’s been coping with it other than visiting her grave. There’s a lot of backstory there we just don’t know. I agree with others in this instance about the story have more of a book feel to this situation, because there is more to Lister’s character that hasn’t been put on screen. Obviously, we can’t judge the situation on what little we’ve seen and been told. Hopefully, if there are any future episodes, we’ll get more of a story here.

  339. > Apparently, you?ve never lived with an alcoholic. They don?t have to be depressed or need a reason to drink.

    Do they have to have their friends fake their own deaths in order to recover?

    It may transpire that that isn`t really what happened to Kochanski at all but within this episode it didn`t work at all imo opinion. Doug might explain all of these plotholes and problems with characterization in the last ep but it really wouldn`t excuse certain things.

  340. I think the real criticism of the episode is the way Rimmer killed Katrina. I can see RImmer doing that, but I’d have thought Lister or the others would have been torn up about murder, even of another hologram (as they were in Waxworld), even when the nasty hologram tried to justify doing the same to Rimmer. I know there are time constrains but that made me feel a bit awkward, because it was a bit nasty.

  341. Anyone who thinks the lack of a laughter track is hindering their enjoyment of the show is foolish. Red Dwarf has never felt slicker.

  342. I certainly don`t think the lack of a laugh track is the only problem but it is definitely as issue.

    Many of the jokes have been very typically sitcom and would have suited an audience. There is very little that wouldn`t have suited an audience so far actually. It could only have helped the actors` performances too.

  343. What I really find bizarre is the amount of people who apparently wanted the show to come back after 10 years with an episode exactly like the preceding 52, which by now we all own on DVD.

    If you’re going to bother to revive the characters after such a long time, you may as well do something bold and innovative with them. I’d certainly take that over any pointless nostalgia trip.

    Red Dwarf has never has a ‘Back To Earth’ before, or anything like it.

    Besides which, its strange to complain now when we’ve all known for several weeks that the show was going to have a strong meta-fiction element.

  344. > Red Dwarf has never has a ?Back To Earth? before, or anything like it.

    Have you never seen Back to Reality?

    I don`t think people did want an episode exactly like the previous 52. I don`t think they wanted as many jokes to be recycled as they have been anyway.

  345. On watching for about the fourth time this morning I noticed that the music in the Nose World sequence is a lovely little homage to the Bladerunner soundtrack. Not surprising, I suppose, but it made me smile.

    > I think the real criticism of the episode is the way Rimmer killed Katrina …..

    But Rimmer was explicitly exonerated – she said it herself, “morally, ethically, hologram killing fine”.
    Besides, it was so goddamn funny, and a lovely little nod to Final Destination.
    And wasn’t she going to erase Rimmer and nuke his hard disk? So technically it’s self-defence.

    In any case, I think she’ll be back.

  346. Less than 12 hours to go.

    I dont find how Krytens behaviour in events BEFORE BTE can be called out of character, since we have’nt seen exactly what happened. Kryten has ALWAYS disliked Kochanski, only in prison did he swallow his pride. I find It perfectly fine for the events that have ‘aparently’ occured with Kryten and Kochanski to have happened happened. What’s OUT of character about It?

  347. > I find It perfectly fine for the events that have ?aparently? occured with Kryten and Kochanski to have happened happened. What?s OUT of character about It?

    If one of your ex-girlfriends hit the bottle then would you consider colluding with a friend to fake your own death? I don`t think it`s in character for Lister to have fallen like that anyway tbh.

    It may all prove to have been fictional anyway.

  348. > If one of your ex-girlfriends hit the bottle then would you consider colluding with a friend to fake your own death?

    Sorry…Is that what happened? Because thats not how I understood It.

    I just read this:

    http://channelhopping.onthebox.com/2009/04/09/red-dwarf-back-to-earth-review-they-dont-make-em-like-they-used-to/

    >the Cat has just been viciously assaulted by a massive testicle (cue the inevitable ?he means tentacle? pun)

    Im seriously fucked off with the constant criticism of the comedy in BTE. There was NOTHING wrong with that line atall. Sally McIlhone, go fuck yourself with a Corgi Red Dwarf pencil. SCOOP END FIRST!

  349. > http://channelhopping.onthebox.com/2009/04/09/red-dwarf-back-to-earth-re

    You know, in terms of general ignorance of the reveiwer, there is so much wrong with that review …

    1. tentacle/testicle is not a pun. Look it up, dear.
    2. a whole paragraph discussing Cat’s costume and Danny’s butt cheeks does not a a review make.
    3. “canned laughter”? I see you’ve done your research well.
    4. “getting haphazardly splashed with purple goo” – Oh, you think so?
    5. “an apparently unconnected smushing together of random storylines” – ditto
    6. “I am past caring about what happens to them”. – D’you know what? I’m rather glad.

  350. > Sorry?Is that what happened? Because thats not how I understood It.

    Well Kochanski may have just intended to disappear rather than Kryten make up another story but does any of it really ring true? In Series VIII these characters were all pantomime figures and now they`re no different. Doug has just shoved 2 moving scenes into the stories so far but the plots don`t flow at all and the original characters are nowhere to be seen.

    > Im seriously fucked off with the constant criticism of the comedy in BTE. There was NOTHING wrong with that line atall.

    It`s all a matter of opinion isn`t it. That is an old joke and not exactly a subtle one. If some people didn`t like it then they`re are just as much entitled to their opinions as you surely.

  351. Nick, read the review. Opinion with sense… I respect. Criticism with merit… I respect. THAT was total bollocks.

  352. I was talking specifically about that gag.

    I have read the review though and I obviously disagree with her Katerina/Leviathan comment because she missed the point there (so did the characters though unfortunately unless this is another thing which still needs to be cleared up).

    She wrongly uses the term `canned laughter` but she is right that the shows should have had a laugh track.

    Her comments that Doug shouldn`t do any more are correct imo. Certainly not on his own like this unless it is the movie script which he has had a decade to perfect. Doug is trying to do Rob`s and Ed`s jobs as well as his own and he isn`t up to that (the one thing Norman was right about). If Dwarf were to continue then I think he`d need a solid script editor at least to curb his sometimes dire ideas.

  353. THAT was a sensible comment Nick. Thanks.

  354. > Im seriously fucked off with the constant criticism of the comedy in BTE. There was NOTHING wrong with that line atall.

    You’re absolutely carrot.

  355. OK my Brain went on overdrive last night after that episode.
    Probably tangenting totally but I was wondering if the Blade Runner reference is a hint as to what is going on.
    Didn’t they collect living things in Blade Runner as they were precious? Maybe Lister is considered precious?
    I just thought why has Katerinas activation not been explained and also the fact that two hard light holograms were able to exist on the same ship. Also Kryton wasn’t given the chance to dish the dirt on her. She knew how to create the time skid (is that right) from the tenticle.
    Also why does she put down Rimmer for the one reason he was placed there (to Keep Lister sane) and want to destroy his files?
    Next, Why are the kids trying to turn Lister against Kryton? and make him think that Kochanski didn’t want to know him anymore.
    Is Cat really the Cat? Now this one is stretching it ! Why is he making those origami things. They seem like Gingerbread, is someone tracking him?

    OK pick holes and discuss, I wonder what others think.

    I can’t wait to see tonights show.

    Sorry if people here are on every board like me cos I’m just posting this everywhere. I’m like an over excitable kid! LOL

  356. Perhaps it’s the (VT) editing, but I do agree with Nick that a good script editor who could have reined in the story and improved the pacing would make a world of difference.

  357. I doubt it?s an illusion, it?s just a product of the dimension they are in. When they return to their own dimension, there?s no question of them ever having been fictional characters there in their own time, just in the crazy dimension of BtE.

    Thing is, when Katarina activated the dimension cutter, “INVALID DIMENSION” appeared on the screen. This was obviously while they were still in their own universe. This was followed by something else along the lines (and this is paraphrased) “FINDING NEXT AVAILABLE REALITY”.

    So not only did the dimension cutter detect their reality as invalid, it did it before connecting to ‘our world’,* so we can’t argue that influences from that world were bleeding through to their own reality. The connection was made as a result of finding their own universe fake.

    Therefore, for them to still be non-fictional characters in their own reality, it all has to be an illusion of some kind. The only other possibility is that they indeed are fiction, along with their universe, but they still somehow can exist…. (Which is sort of true when you think of the idea of creativity and characters taking on a life of their own.)

    This is intriguing interesting stuff. Despite all the criticism, much of which I think is relevant, I think Doug’s actual plotting is very good. This is probably one of the most complex stories he has ever written.

    I agree that maybe the characters accepted their fate as ‘fictional beings’ too quickly without questioning it, but I suspect that this is a time factor. With 3 small episodes they just have to keep the story moving. I really hope that there’ll be other material included on the DVDs that will make the cut a bit more substantial. From what I’ve learnt from Robert Llewellyn’s tweets, the version they saw at the premier was a bit different, a bit longer, which is positive.

    The Bladerunner stuff is way too heavy handed though. I like a bit of parody. (I.e.the Termi-scan stuff in Out of Time. The Star-trek technobabble in Tikka to Ride, etc, but the those were little homages. This felt like a blatant rip in places. Part of me got a geeky thrill out of recognizing stuff and seeing it translated into a more mundane situation. (I.e Cat pulling his coat off of the old man for example because it was his, which was actually a kind of Roy Batty torture scene in Blade Runner). It would have been brilliant as a scene from a sketch show, but should it be in Red Dwarf?

    * I say ‘our world’ for want of a better term as we know it’s not strictly our world what with two other series of Red Dwarf, etc. Maybe ‘Meta-world’ would be a better term.

  358. Viewing Figures 947,000 for last nights episode! http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/a152472/huge-audiences-for-talent-who.htm

    It’s a shame that we lost over half the audience. However, that figure is still pretty substantial for a digital channel isn’t it? I wonder if the third instalment will lose more? On one hand, some people might have been turned off by the meta stuff (which I personally liked, but I know it’s quite a dividing point.) On the other hand, even if they’re smegged off, likely they’ll be intrigued as to the outcome and they only have one more episode to go. It’s a good thing they showed the Coronation Street scene right at the end of the episode. That will probably hook in even the most pessimistic of viewers.

  359. Regarding the ease with which the crew seem to be accepting their situation… anyone think this might actually be a plot point, and related to the ease with which they accepted Katerina’s sudden appearance? Such as… something else going on which is making them highly suggestible? Might also explain Cat’s origami, or even the fact that they didn’t seem to notice themselves on TV in the electronics store…

  360. It could be a plot point but that would mean that Doug intended to make the first couple of eps seem worse than they actually were before revealing the truth in the final episode. A dangerous plan if he didn`t want to lose viewers.

  361. i hope there is a good reason for why they accepted their situation so easy, as i hated the bit where they are looking at the dvds going “it shows all out adventures”, as after so many years in space that was abit wierd

    i hope we find out all this aint real otherwise i will never be able to see this as cannon

    no matter how funny a few scenes were, i wouldnt be able to take the comic relief sketch seriously :(

  362. >i hope there is a good reason for why they accepted their situation so easy

    Well it is too weird for words.

  363. Poor Bobby, i love how much he cares about the show. I think people will be much happier with whats going on once they’ve seen tonight’s episode. We are meant to be wondering what the fuck is going on but some people don’t seem to like that.

  364. G&T Admin

    Im seriously fucked off with the constant criticism of the comedy in BTE.

    You’re not the only person to have done it Thomas, but this did leap out at me – and I think it’s important to clarify this now. The discussion about BtE has been relatively civil so far – but if we start getting angry at someone else for simply having a different opinion, things could rapidly deteriorate.

    Let’s all try and be careful.

  365. Your right I know…. That was a moment where I popped!

    Im chilled now. Honest. :D The chocolate eggs help :D

  366. Eeeee….everything was so massively overwhelmingly positive last night.

    What happened?

  367. >The chocolate eggs

    I miss those. ;(

  368. Oh I am so Fucking dumb. 4 watches, and I’ve only just got the “thanks fido” joke.

  369. Si, I?m glad you enjoyed the episode mate. I am. I don?t want or need you to care about what I think. But there?s nothing wrong with discussing praise and criticism on a fan site. Please don?t think I?m trying to be a killjoy, okay? I was so excited about these episodes and I?m saddened that they haven?t done anything for me. But they did for you – so that?s what counts.

    You basically saying that you’re glad I enjoyed it, but you didn’t, is exactly the same as me saying that it’s a shame that no-one else seemed to enjoy it as much as me. There’s no need to pick my comment out like that (and, fair enough, I’m doing now).

    I’ve been around here long enough to know that people have very different, very strong opinions. No probs.

  370. Nearly 400 comments. Nice. Most ever?

  371. Make that 400!

  372. I am beginning to think now that part 3 may be… hmm. There seems to be too much to resolve in twenty-something minutes. Then again I suppose it depends how long they stay on Coronation Street…

    Also, another thing I forgot to mention was enjoying the camera tracking Kryten as he came sliding along the floor out of the portal and having to track back because it went too far. I liked that touch.

  373. They only filmed one day in Coronation Street so I only see the first 5-10 minutes in there.

  374. I’m thinking everything before the ad break will be Corrie based, and then they’ll leave in carbug before the [lack of] ad bumper. And then when we return after the break it’ll be into the chase and the resolve with Katrina.

  375. >Oh I am so Fucking dumb. 4 watches

    And he still can’t tell the time.

  376. I’m not the speaking clock.

  377. You know when Noddy said that dimension skids happen a lot. Has coronation street and the Blade runner film both skidded into this reality as well.

  378. You know, I understand that maybe it’s considered a sci-fi classic, but I’ve never seen Blade Runner… a lot of Red Dwarf fans, I’d venture, have never seen Blade Runner… and its decades old too. What a strange reference to base a whole three-part episode around.

    If it was ONE episode of a 6 or 8 episode series, then fine. Even if the references were heavy handed.

    I’m just glad that Pt 1 steered quite clear of that territory. For me, Pt 1 represents an evolution of Dwarf that I want a piece of. I’d like to see more just like it (but longer, and self-contained). Pt 2 represents something I’m not quite getting… I often worry about certain episodes of Dwarf alienating casual viewers due to back referencing and running gags… but I never expected to be alienated as a viewer myself, as an actual Red Dwarf fan!

    And I havn’t seen Alien, or Casablanca, or most of the other films referenced over the years either, yet it was still accessible to me. BtE Pt 2… not so much.

    I still liked the character stuff… Cat crying made me laugh… some of the sci-fi in-jokes were great… whatever you may say about the subtext of Rimmer killing Katerina, it was still a well-timed sight gag… the scene with the kids on the bus which harked us back to some actual Red Dwarf developments rather than a Blade Runner spoof, I am actually interested in the background of Kochanski’s death/disappearance as a result… Carbug would have been more amusing if we hadn’t seen it already, but no doubt got a big laugh from those who have avoided ALL spoilers and details in the run up to the new episodes…

    I think for me, take away the most blatant Blade Runner stuff, and Pt 2 was a great episode…

  379. > You know when Noddy said that dimension skids happen a lot. Has coronation street and the Blade runner film both skidded into this reality as well.

    Yeah, I’m thinking that Coronation Street is a real place in this episode, considering there were actual people waiting at a bus stop, and they just drove onto the street. I’m thinking it’s a universe where reality and fiction have become warped. That’s why nobody really blinked an eyelid when they popped out of the TVs.

    We could well see Lister, Lloyd Mullaney and Craig Charles all in one scene! Rimmer, Chris Barrie and Gordon Brittas? Cat, Danny John-Jules, and Barrington? Kryten, Robert Llewellyn and… ummm… that one legged guy off Bottom??

  380. You should watch it, really. It’s probably one of the greatest films ever made, certainly from America.

  381. I considered watching it before BtE, knowing there would be SOME referencing (didn’t realise THIS much) but never got a good chance to watch it. Hmmm… how long is it? I could maybe squeeze it in now, if I can find it online, before Pt 3…

  382. >We could well see Lister, Lloyd Mullaney and Craig Charles all in one scene! Rimmer, Chris Barrie and Gordon Brittas? Cat, Danny John-Jules, and Barrington? Kryten, Robert Llewellyn and? ummm? that one legged guy off Bottom??

    If we see Brittas this will become an instant favourite of mine! :P
    And as for Kryten there’s every chance we could end up salvaging Carbug parts on a scrapheap? Probably not but it’s the most likely tie in for Llewellyn.

  383. Rob could take Brittas, Barrington and Lloyd for car pool =]

  384. That little line was possibly my favorite line from the whole episode!

  385. Wonder if Doug got to speak with Ridley Scott at the studios. Isn’t (wasn’t?) he filming Nottingham there?

  386. Would be cool if Doug had gotten to speak to Ridley. If he did I’m sure we’ll know about it at some point.

    > how long is it?

    About two hours. Make sure you get the Final Cut.

  387. > If we see Brittas this will become an instant favourite of mine! :P

    What if they couldn’t secure the rights to use Brittas, and so we have Gary Prince instead??

    He’s a winner, he’s a star….

  388. I don’t have time to watch it then. I want to take in Pts 1 and 2 again anyway, before Pt 3.

    Guess I shall have to watch it another time. I’ll make a point of watching the Final Cut, if it’s better.

  389. > We could well see Lister, Lloyd Mullaney and Craig Charles all in one scene! Rimmer, Chris Barrie and Gordon Brittas? Cat, Danny John-Jules, and Barrington? Kryten, Robert Llewellyn and? ummm? that one legged guy off Bottom??

    I would just love this – but all in the last half hour? And resolve the story, too? They’d never fit it all in.

  390. There is still a big question to why the machine chose the reality of Bladerunner instead of their own reality. Ok it fits the story, but I think there is much more than that.

    I wish, from personal satisfaction that Chloe was with the crew, seeing her half naked in a clear plastic mack, falling through glass onto white powder. That’s why Lister was on the floor first!

  391. >I wish, from personal satisfaction that Chloe was with the crew, seeing her half naked in a clear plastic mack, falling through glass onto white powder. That?s why Lister was on the floor first!

    Not that we haven’t seen them in photoshoots anyway. Still, at least you didn’t choose her character for a reason to be back in it!

  392. I thought this was SO much better than Part 1. Part 1 felt really laboured to me, and, sadly wasn’t very funny. Part 2 had some really brilliant gags – I LOVED the Cat yearning for a metaphysical experience, and that was one of the throwaway jokes!

    Feel much better about the whole project after seeing Part 2. :-)

  393. >I LOVED the Cat yearning for a metaphysical experience, and that was one of the throwaway jokes!

    It was so throwaway that I forgot about it completely, but you’re right, I thought that line was fucking brilliant.

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