Good Things in ‘Bad’ Episodes

[BlossomiestBlossom]

I don’t know if you already have a topic like this (apologies if so), but I thought it would be nice to share good things about episodes that you don’t like/aren’t well-received.

Topic

[Rushy]

Backwards has the Red Dwarf shuffle, which is so dated and daft that I love it. 

Bodyswap has Chris and Craig do physical impressions of each other, and they’re both really cute. Chris is like a kid in Lister’s clothes, and Craig hams it up as Rimmer. 

I like the APPEAL! in Krytie TV. 

Duct Soup has some decent characterisation

Pete has the visits to the captain’s office. 

Entangled has Sydney Stevenson and her death scene. 

[Flap Jack]

First you hate Future Echoes, now you cite Backwards and Bodyswap as bad episodes and Irene E’s death scene as good??? These are some mighty spicy takes.

[Rushy]

First you hate Future Echoes, now you cite Backwards and Bodyswap as bad episodes and Irene E’s death scene as good??? These are some mighty spicy takes.

Backwards is a time capsule of the 80s, very dated and completely lacking in internal logic. 

Bodyswap is a special case where I think the characterisation of Rimmer is entirely off. He’s a complete maniac in that story. The same thing happens in Meltdown, but at least there he’s dealing with wax robots that he doesn’t see as human, and is not really a threat to the crew. Every time I watch Bodyswap, though, I just don’t believe Lister would keep him switched on. 

Irene E’s death is a wonderful bit of dark humour. I get that it might seem a bit cold from Rimmer and Lister’s side, but I think at this point they’re just resigned to their fates anyway and have been through so much that it doesn’t affect them. 

[Moonlight]

Bodyswap has Chris and Craig do physical impressions of each other, and they’re both really cute. Chris is like a kid in Lister’s clothes, and Craig hams it up as Rimmer. 

Bodyswap is the best episode of Series III that isn’t Marooned. Fight me.

Bodyswap is a special case where I think the characterisation of Rimmer is entirely off.

To be fair, there’s HEAVY precedent for Rimmer going this insane and stealing Lister’s body. It’s just that it’s in Bodysnatcher.

I think Bodyswap might only feel off to you because they don’t make a big enough deal out of how miserable Rimmer is being a hologram in the earlier part of the episode. They tell you about it but they don’t show it so much. I guess. It never felt off to me but I’ve been watching these episodes for the best part of two decades at this point so everything in them feels “in character” to me.

[Dave]

Every time I watch Bodyswap, though, I just don’t believe Lister would keep him switched on. 

I don’t think Lister has the authority to switch him off or he would have done it before that.

[Rushy]

Bodyswap has Chris and Craig do physical impressions of each other, and they’re both really cute. Chris is like a kid in Lister’s clothes, and Craig hams it up as Rimmer. 
Bodyswap is the best episode of Series III that isn’t Marooned. Fight me.

My favourite from III is The Last Day. 

Marooned is cool, but I do think it’s slightly overrated. I wish there was some kind of conflict going on there beyond the chest/guitar, or that the anecdotes were more personal. It feels more like an extended sketch than a fully formed story. 

With an episode like Balance of Power, for example, you have Lister and Rimmer both pushing and pulling to get what they want, Lister starts to imitate Rimmer’s behaviour, Rimmer tries to trick Lister etc. It’s more lively, exciting, while still being very contained and dialogue-focused. 

[Moonlight]

Marooned is cool, but I do think it’s slightly overrated. I wish there was some kind of conflict going on there beyond the chest/guitar, or that the anecdotes were more personal. It feels more like an extended sketch than a fully formed story. 

That’s a fair criticism. I just think it’s really, really funny throughout.

[Rushy]

I don’t think Lister has the authority to switch him off or he would have done it before that.

Lister wouldn’t care. 

To be fair, there’s HEAVY precedent for Rimmer going this insane and stealing Lister’s body. It’s just that it’s in Bodysnatcher.
I think Bodyswap might only feel off to you because they don’t make a big enough deal out of how miserable Rimmer is being a hologram in the earlier part of the episode. They tell you about it but they don’t show it so much. I guess. It never felt off to me but I’ve been watching these episodes for the best part of two decades at this point so everything in them feels “in character” to me.

It’s not so much Rimmer’s need to have a physical body that bothers me, but that he ends up flying off with it in Starbug, not to mention putting a gun to Lister’s head. And that he is completely shameless about it all at the end. In Bodysnatcher, Lister actually switches him off and we get a good reason for why he’s turned back on and why Lister ultimately decides to forgive him. 

[Warbodog]

Bodyswap’s my favourite from III. A pure episode of them (and a mad Skutter) making trouble for themselves with no need for external factors.

[Flap Jack]

My favourite from III is The Last Day. 

OK, you’re somewhat winning me round.

[Renegade Rob]

Honestly, as crap as Beyond a Joke is as a whole, I find the opening act to be perfectly serviceable (everything up to Kryten’s head exploding). 

[Rushy]

Most of the jokes in Beyond a Joke are shit, but the actual sci-fi adventure part of it is fine, I think. Bobby and Henderson are great in it, and I even like the goofy disco music they’ve got going on during the asteroid sequence. 

I’ll take it above Ouroboros or Duct Soup, which just kill me with boredom. And I’d quite like to read Bobby’s original script before Doug drove him insane with endless rewrites. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

> I don’t think Lister has the authority to switch him off or he would have done it before that.

I think Lister respects Rimmer too much, he recognises Rimmer has agency.  He wouldn’t just turn him off.

As to Rimmer’s madness, he has physical touch after 2 years, it might be over the top but I think it’s justified in the episode.

[Rushy]

Lister respects Rimmer too much, he recognises Rimmer has agency.  He wouldn’t just turn him off. 

I don’t think Lister would realistically care after the guy tried to steal his body and threatened to murder it. It’s not like they have a holographic jail for him. Turning him off is literally the only safe option. 

[Dax101]

I just don’t believe Lister would keep him switched on.  

I might be wrong but i suspect Lister has no choice but to put up with Rimmer. thats kinda the idea behind Red Dwarf isn’t it? Rimmer was brought back as a hologram to keep Lister sane. He wasn’t brought back because Lister and Rimmer get on like pals. its that they drive each other crazy and thats the whole point.

I believe only 2 episodes of series 1 gave the impressive Lister could switch off Rimmer. But that kinda gives Lister a power over Rimmer that makes him unable to challenge Lister and gives Lister full control.

I’d imagine for listers sake that Holly wouldn’t allow Rimmer to be switched off.

[clem]

My favourite from III is The Last Day. 

This guy knows where it’s at. The Last Day always feels more like a IV episode to me, in a good way. For one thing, Robert has found his feet. Okay he’s pretty obviously reading the computer chip specs but apart from that he’s great, better than in the rest of III. I also like the general bonhomie of the five of them in the party scene especially, and the way Lister and Kryten’s relationship is foregrounded for the first time. And that Prince-esque version of the theme is 👌

[Rushy]

I just don’t believe Lister would keep him switched on.  
I might be wrong but i suspect Lister has no choice but to put up with Rimmer. thats kinda the idea behind Red Dwarf isn’t it? 

Lister puts up with Rimmer because driving Rimmer mad is part of what keeps him going. But that’s when they have an established relationship of annoying each other, not being an active threat to each other’s lives. 

Bodysnatcher (and even Me2) makes it clear that Lister can switch Rimmer off anytime he wants, he just chooses not to. And for most of the show, it’s fairly believable. In Bodyswap, it isn’t. 

[Flap Jack]

Counterpoint: Balance of Power and Confidence & Paranoia are both premised on the idea that Lister absolutely can’t turn off Rimmer no matter how much he wants to.

Bodysnatcher isn’t canon, and in Me² it’s likely Holly made an exception because of the 2 Rimmers situation. Plus both Rimmers technically endorse the idea that one of them should be switched off.

It is fair to say that Holly could have been more involved in Bodyswap though. The whole “sorry, he outranks you, nothing doing” rule shouldn’t really hold if you steal a crewmate’s body and go on a rampage. And Holly has clearly learned her lesson by Meltdown, where she allows Lister to command Rimmer switched off as punishment for his crimes (presumably on the understanding that he would be switched back on).

[Rushy]

Counterpoint: Balance of Power and Confidence & Paranoia are both premised on the idea that Lister absolutely can’t turn off Rimmer no matter how much he wants to.

Counter-counterpoint: Lister is just a nice person and isn’t going to forcibly switch Rimmer off unless there’s a serious reason, because he knows it would genuinely upset Rimmer.

And also because it would be too easy. Lister wants to outwit Rimmer. 

[Moonlight]

[Flap Jack]

Counter-counterpoint: Lister is just a nice person and isn’t going to forcibly switch Rimmer off unless there’s a serious reason, because he knows it would genuinely upset Rimmer.

Sure, he’d need a serious reason first, such as “I became a chef”. Rimmer wouldn’t be upset if Lister was a chef while switching him off.

And also because it would be too easy. Lister wants to outwit Rimmer. 

Right, and Red Dwarf also has a “teleport to Earth” button, but Lister refuses to press it because he likes a challenge.

[Dave]

Right, and Red Dwarf also has a “teleport to Earth” button

A beautiful coming-together of engineering and astronavs.

[Unrumble]

[Warbodog]

Red Dwarf also has a “teleport to Earth” button, but Lister refuses to press it because he likes a challenge.

Honestly thought you were describing Series VII there. Kryten discourages Lister from going back to Earth in his own time because of the damage they’d cause, but they don’t use it to go back to their present-day Earth where that isn’t an issue, so what the fuck are they even doing?

[BlossomiestBlossom]

I’m trying to think of something good about Gunmen of the Apocalypse 

[Jenuall]

[BlossomiestBlossom]

I may have been too tired while watching it, but Gunmen really was nothing special.

I much preferred Emohawk and Legion – I found those episodes very funny

[Rushy]

I don’t think Gunmen is quite Emmy material, but it’s still a strong episode that is as much of a love letter to westerns as Holoship is for romance dramas. Something that parodies the material yet also manages to capture what makes the subject matter so great to begin with. 

Emohawk, on the other hand, is very trite. But I’m biased there because I don’t really like Polymorph to begin with. 

[Ian Symes]

I am very much enjoying seeing opinions that don’t match the consensus, after all these years. It’s fascinating to see how people react when they come to the show fresh. Welcome aboard, Blossom and Rushy!

[Rushy]

I am very much enjoying seeing opinions that don’t match the consensus, after all these years. It’s fascinating to see how people react when they come to the show fresh. Welcome aboard, Blossom and Rushy!

Thanks!
I hope I can get to experience having some brand new Dwarf as well. By the time I got into it, Promised Land was long out. 

Edit: my personal ranking of the bubble era: 

https://rimmerexperience.blogspot.com/2025/02/ranking-grant-naylor-episodes-series-i.html

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

[Nick R]

Thanks!
I hope I can get to experience having some brand new Dwarf as well. By the time I got into it, Promised Land was long out. 
Edit: my personal ranking of the bubble era: 
https://rimmerexperience.blogspot.com/2025/02/ranking-grant-naylor-episodes-series-i.html

Because I AM A BIG NERD I have done a comparison between the episodes’ positions in your Rushy Ranking and the results from our 2023 Coral Canvass, to see which episodes have the biggest and smallest differences in placement:

The episodes that you had in much better positions were Meltdown (-29 places), The Last Day (-25), and Confidence & Paranoia (-22).

The episodes that you put in much worse positions were Polymorph (+24 places), Quarantine (+21), and Backwards (+21).

Queeg is the only one where the positions matched exactly.

Episode pairs that stayed alongside each other in both lists: Waiting For God/Balance of Power, and Bodyswap/Camille.

[Renegade Rob]

(I kid, I actually agree with a lot of this.)

[Jenuall]

[Jenuall]

Meltdown ranking higher I can get on board with, I still feel like that one has been tainted by those early rankings and shit talking it got in the smegazine to the point where people are judging it more harshly than is fair. I wouldn’t put it as high as 3 mind you – probably more like 20-ish. 

DNA in the top 10 is a bold swing as well. Whilst I enjoy it well enough “that laugh” will haunt my dreams for eternity so it can never climb especially high in my personal rankings! 

[BlossomiestBlossom]

Well if anyone’s interested I might post my thoughts, ratings, and rankings on the episodes I’ve seen.

As I’m new to the Red Dwarf fandom, I’m not entirely sure how different episodes have been received, so it could be interesting seeing how my opinions contrast to ‘general consensus’

[Rushy]

Go for it!

[BlossomiestBlossom]

Go for it!

Oh – I might not want to get this thread off-topic though.

I’ll make a new topic for my Red Dwarf thoughts!

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

[Moonlight]

Thanks for the Memory is appropriately high on the list.

[Technopeasant]

I don’t think Gunmen is quite Emmy material.

Neither was “Roswell that Ends Well” for Futurama, but apparently they like gimmick episodes. To be clear, I love both, but they could pick more representative examples too.

[Rushy]

I don’t think Gunmen is quite Emmy material.

Neither was “Roswell that Ends Well” for Futurama, but apparently they like gimmick episodes.

[Hamish]

[Author]

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