Lost

[Jonathan Capps]

RIGHT.

First thing’s first: Lost is awesome, and I will personally mud wrestle anyone who thinks otherwise. Some may say this is a shallow attempt to get some mud wrestling action… I couldn’t possibly comment.

Secondly: season 4 is starting in 2 weeks and I am this: VERY EXCITED. Season 3 was probably my favourite so far (especially after the frankly pants first 6 episodes were out of the way) and now that season 4 will be the first new episodes we’ll see that have been planned with the fixed end date in sight, we’re apparently going to get a much more pro-active, answers orientated show, which I reckon we’re due after three seasons (admittedly mostly awesome) slow burning question building.

Thirdly: Graham McTavish is going to appear in a flashback/flashforward and may apparently return later on. Hurrah for the first solid Dwarf link to Lost!

Topic

[TheLeen]

Yeah, another show I have to watch some time… sigh

[Andrew]

*insert standard disparagements here*

> Some may say this is a shallow attempt to get some mud wrestling action?

Some may say it’s a pretty shallow show. But a shallow show with some great ass.

[Jonathan Capps]

> *insert standard disparagements here*

Out of interest, did you ever find the time to give season 3 a chance? I have a distinct feeling that from season 4 on wards it’s going to much less frustrating for people who gave up before now. And you must have some form of investment in the characters? Some curiosity about where it’s going to go?

Anyway, I don’t want to get back into a discussion about the merits of the show as we’re certainly done with that, I’m just curious if you’re still keeping track.

[James]

I love lamp. Er Lost. No really, it is quite brilliant, I even got the Region 1 version boxsets so I could see them before the UK and have the silly part.1 and 2 carry on. I love the mystery as much as I like to guess what is about to happen, to be honest the answers are not that important to me. Season 3 blew me away, I’m half way through the second season right now watching it all again in readyness for Season 4. Apparently spolilers have been kept to a minimum this time due to Season 3 being all over the net, Disney have put a lockdown on just about everything, which I don’t mind too much. Have you seen the only available trailer on ABC? And the new Dharma station, that was shown at Comic Con?

[Andrew]

> Out of interest, did you ever find the time to give season 3 a chance?

I stopped after 50 episodes, I think, which is surely enough to decide on any show. This was when it switched to Sky and then the friend who was taping them…stopped taping them.

At this point I’d have to actively seek it out, and I simply don’t have it in me to go though any more. Not for a show that irritated me more that it entertained. I’d probably watch a little more, just based on the talk about series three, but only if it landed on my doorstep. (And the writers’ strike presumably means series four is going to be messy and/or truncated anyway, right?)

I certainly have a lot of curiosity about where it’s going to go mystery-wise, but not enough to go through more of the same, and – as we’ve discussed before – I have have very little faith in its resolution. (Not helped by MI:3, Cloverfield and what I saw of Alias; I don’t see anything in those that suggest Abrams is anything more than a crass manipulator, all promise no fulfillment.) And, as we’ve also said before, investment in the characters – “what characters?” Blah blah, old discussions.

Still, I got to have a dig at the show on the rd.co.uk site update this week, so I’m happy. :-)

[penny]

Alias was brilliant…kind of fizzed out a bit after a couple or so series in a way, but Lost never really got into.

I looking forward to Cloverfield in a way, but I have a feeling it’s going to be a film I look forward to watching but end up not watching and then be thankful I didn’t watch it.

[Ian Symes]

I’m watching Season 2 and 3 through with the wife at the moment so as I’m up to speed for the new series. I watched Season 1 on C4 at the time, missed a few episodes and found it hard to get back in to. Now I’m making a real effort, and while I’m enjoying it, I wish it would HURRY THE FUCK UP. Even watching it on DVD, I still feel like I’m waiting far too long for… anything. I’m not one of those idiots who wants absolutely everything to be revealed as soon as possible; I’m not looking for answers, just advancements, and they’re few and far between. I’ve been reliably informed (by the wife, Cappsy and my comedy partner) that it’s very very very much worthwhile, so I’ll keep going.

[Jonathan Capps]

> I?m watching Season 2 and 3 through with the wife at the moment so as I?m up to speed for the new series.

HURRAH! I will greatly look forward to watching the season 4 premiere with you.

[Dave]

I watched the pilot and I loved it, I watched the one with Hurley’s lottery win and I enjoyed it.

Other than that I managed to the end of Season Two and every other episode just seemed like a buildup to a cliffhanger with a sub-Doctor Who “and with one bound he was free” payoff.

It’s shite. However Brian K. Vaughan started writing for the show and suddenly I’m interested again…

[pfm]

> Some may say this is a shallow attempt to get some mud wrestling action

Much like the episode with Kate and Juliet handcuffed to each other rolling about in the mud…hmmm.

Anyone who’s frustrated with Lost should just leave it, you’re never going to properly get into it. It’s my favourite show atm (even beating Galactica FFS!) due to season 3’s utter awesomeness. Drew Goddard coming onboard was a factor in that, I reckon. He wrote/co-wrote some, if not all the best episodes of season 3 – The Glass Ballerina, Flashes Before Your Eyes, The Man From Tallahassee, The Man Behind The Curtain. Top quality television, there simply isn’t a better written and acted show. Michael Emerson…for the love of god, he pwns the world.

[Andrew]

> Drew Goddard coming onboard was a factor in that,

It’s interesting that the episodes that I’ve often liked the most have been by ex Buffy writers, Drew Goddard and David Fury. (Though I forget WHICH Drew episode/s made me sit up…) Which is crazy when these are team-written shows anyway and a writing credit isn’t guarantee of anything.

> there simply isn?t a better written and acted show.

The. West. Wing. Pissing on Lost from a great height with boiling-hot acid-piss. :-p

[Jonathan Capps]

> The. West. Wing. Pissing on Lost from a great height with boiling-hot acid-piss. :-p

I’m only guessing, but I think monkey’s statement was about current shows. Otherwise, as you say, it’d be horribly misjudged.

But, out of the shows being made at the moment, he’s right.

[James]

I knew it would end in a pissing contest…

[pfm]

> but I think monkey?s statement was about current shows

Correct. It’s a bit of a sweeping statement to say it’s the best written and acted show OF ALL TIME! No doubt we’ll get John coming on saying that accolade belongs to George & Mildred.

[John Hoare]

Correct. It?s a bit of a sweeping statement to say it?s the best written and acted show OF ALL TIME! No doubt we?ll get John coming on saying that accolade belongs to George & Mildred.

Mine changes all the time. Currently, it’s actually Buffy…

No doubt normality will resume and it’ll be an old sitcom again soon.

[James]

Allo Allo. That is all I have to say. Now I’m pissing by your door…

[John Hoare]

Allo Allo. That is all I have to say. Now I?m pissing by your door?

A few months ago, that was my favourite show!

It’s brilliant. Wonderful characters, great production values, and joke upon joke upon joke that leaves me gasping for breath at times. And the serial nature of the story is very unusual for sitcom too, especially at the time, and works wonderfully.

The pilot is brilliant – the show takes no time to get going, it’s fantastic from the start – and it’s on YouTube if anyone who hasn’t seen it wants to give it a try. The scene between Gruber and Rene about the matches is one of my favourite things ever.

[Andrew]

Ah okay, yes, ‘current shows’. Different thing, fair enough. Though you don’t have to go far back to find better stuff.

Certainly I wouldn’t have said the dialogue writing beat the crackle of House or Studio 60, or that the performances were anything more than ‘fine’, generally. (Certainly not a patch on The Street, say.)

It’s the hook and the wider plotting that I find admirable, special, lack of faith or not. Which is maybe better described as producing more than writing. But the week by week scripts, the characterisation, the dialogue, the ep structure, the performances? Nothing special – Prison Break’s just as capable.

[Jonathan Capps]

> I knew it would end in a pissing contest?

I know, it’s almost as if my mud wrestling threat isn’t being taken seriously…

[Jonathan Capps]

> Certainly I wouldn?t have said the dialogue writing beat the crackle of House or Studio 60, or that the performances were anything more than ?fine?, generally. (Certainly not a patch on The Street, say.)

Fair point on House, but I reckon it only wins through with – as you say – dialogue. Lost has decent rather than brilliant dialogue, but it certainly wins through for me in just about every other area. And Studio 60 is finished now, isn’t it? If you tell me now that it’s got a second series I’ll melt with happy. I’m half way through the first series and I’m in love. I’m not entirely sure it’s good for my brain to have so much Sorkin being mainlined to my brain in such a small space of time (just finished WW 4 and getting Sports Night as we speak), but I DON’T CARE.

[Andrew]

> If you tell me now that it?s got a second series I?ll melt with happy. I?m half way through the first series and I?m in love.

Sadly not. But if by ‘current’ we include only things being made RIGHT NOW, even Lost would be excluded… :-)

Take Studio 60 slowly. Rob Grant said it best – every episode is both a new joy and a sorrow for getting that much closer to the definite end. (Worse still, the last five episodes are one big long story taking place over a very short period.)

The same’s true of West Wing four, really. Once Sorkin goes, you have to stay on for plot reasons, but Wells wanted a very different show and ended up with a bit of a mess, held together with strong performances and capable ‘ER standard’ scripting.

[Jonathan Capps]

> Sadly not. But if by ?current? we include only things being made RIGHT NOW, even Lost would be excluded? :-)

Well, Lost hasn’t been cancelled was my point. In fact, it’s probably the least cancelled show in the US. It’s been UBER COMMISSIONED.

> Take Studio 60 slowly. Rob Grant said it best – every episode is both a new joy and a sorrow for getting that much closer to the definite end. (Worse still, the last five episodes are one big long story taking place over a very short period.)

Gah, I really don’t think I’m up for taking this show slowly. Advice heeded, though. I’ll try not to watch any more today, at least! It’s hard, though, as not in my wildest dreams was I suspecting that it’d be even close to touching The West Wing, so it knocked me off my feet when I found it does.

> The same?s true of West Wing four, really. Once Sorkin goes, you have to stay on for plot reasons, but Wells wanted a very different show and ended up with a bit of a mess, held together with strong performances and capable ?ER standard? scripting.

It took me yonks to watch season 1 as I kind of stalled after 8 episodes, for some reason. Once I got past that it didn’t take long to burn right through to the end of 4. I can’t think of a more gut wrenching way to see out Sorkin’s last episodes on the show, so I’ve been comforting myself (and killing time before some idiot Marketplace person gets round to sending the 5 DVD) by going back through season 1 and 2. Season 2’s finale has to be one of my favourite pieces of television ever created, and I only saw it for the first time a few weeks ago!

Basically, what I’m saying is that I’m utterly delighted to be reminded that I can still be sucker punched by a show like this out of absolutely nowhere. US TV can be so awesome.

[Andrew]

> Well, Lost hasn?t been cancelled was my point. In fact, it?s probably the least cancelled show in the US. It?s been UBER COMMISSIONED.

Sure. But I figure, if a show has been produced in parallel with Lost, it’s up for being compared. Because we’re not in a great year for competition against Lost. It’s like being the best thing on in the cinema in January – it’s good to beat everyone, but it’s not like the competition’s tough. That alone doesn’t prove Lost’s greatness, it just shows the state of production right now.

Bah, anyway, same old Andrew Lost rantings. I don’t see how the performances class as anything beyond capable, or the dialogue as much past functional. But my dislike and your love will forever cloud our judgments…

> [West Wing] Season 2?s finale has to be one of my favourite pieces of television ever created

I’ve recently said the exact same thing to someone. Buffy 2 and WW 2’s finales will forever be burned on my brain. As will Cracker’s opening series 2 story, lest we forget that Brit TV sometimes nails it, too.

Great series twos that never happened: Firefly and Studio 60. Both shows had found their feet. By the end of a second series…man, that could have been glorious TV.

Also: For more Sorkin do see Charlie Wilson’s War. The conclusion is a bit America-friendly, but the whole thing is a joy. (Oh, and The American President and A Few Good Men if you haven’t already. Obviously.) Just trying to maintain your high! :-)

[James]

The West Wing. 7 Seasons 156 Episodes, surely this could have been wrapped up after 50? :P

[TheLeen]

Heroes wins anyway.

[James]

If they had a script! I quite like Heroes myself. I’m sure the inclusion of the Directors Guild now will end the 3 month argument. Um. Luckily Lost was written well before any of this was started. I wonder if they realise what lasting damage this could do. On the plus side, millions of UK writters may get their chance, maybe this strike is a good thing after all?

[Jonathan Capps]

> Luckily Lost was written well before any of this was started.

Half of Lost. We’re only getting 8 episodes. With any luck they’ll be back and we’ll get the last 8 in October ready for season 5 next February.

I like to live in hope.

[John Hoare]

Last thing I heard, there were positive rumblings about the strike ending.

As selfish as it sounds, I’m really upset that it might have jeapordised the last half of Scrubs‘s last season. We might never get an ending!

[Andrew]

> I?m sure the inclusion of the Directors Guild now will end the 3 month argument

Hopefully. The pressure of the Oscars and the potential actor’s strike will play a big part.

> Luckily Lost was written well before any of this was started

I thought they had to stop after making 16 episodes?

> I wonder if they realise what lasting damage this could do.

That’s the point, surely? While viewers may be upset at the grinding to a halt of their favourite shows, it’d all be settled tomorrow if the studios put a fair rate on the table. (A deal, BTW, which British writers are essentially already getting.) The writers, IMHO, are in no way at fault for this action. The damage to the shows is nothing compared to the exploitation of jobbing writers, most of whom are unknown staffers who are now struggling to make rent as the strike continues.

And they carry the placards anyway. At this point, TV can wait.

> On the plus side, millions of UK writters may get their chance, maybe this strike is a good thing after all?

Generally speaking it seems that UK writers have (quite reasonably) sided with the WGA’s writers in not wanting to exploit the situation. Certainly we/they couldn’t start writing for US shows – it’s unthinkable to cross that line.

It’d be nice to think that more UK shows would be exported in this period, I guess, but it doesn’t seem to be going that way – the networks (and, I dare say, the major population) don’t want ‘foreign’ shows on their main channels. Better, apparently, to knock out more reality and game shows…

[James]

I think with it only been sixteen in total, we would have had a break at 8 regardless of the strike. I’m sure it will be sorted by then. I mean they are written, but the guild won’t approve anything. Thanks for incite there. I don’t blame the writers, I blame the way it’s taking so long for them even to talk about it.

[John Hoare]

As selfish as it sounds, I?m really upset that it might have jepordised the last half of Scrubs?s last season. We might never get an ending!

Although obviously, I still support the strike action.

[Jonathan Capps]

> I thought they had to stop after making 16 episodes?

They had to stop after writing 8/16 and we’re getting those 8 starting at the end of January.

> I think with it only been sixteen in total, we would have had a break at 8 regardless of the strike

Definitely not. The last three seasons of Lost are specifically designed for 16 episode runs, uninterrupted runs from February to May.

[James]

US gets it 3 days before UK Sky, can you wait 3 days? Or will it be a trip to the Pitate Bay?

[Jonathan Capps]

I don’t have Sky, so I’ll be a filthy pirate. Until I buy the DVD the day it’s released, that is.

[Andrew]

> They had to stop after writing 8/16 and we?re getting those 8 starting at the end of January.

Ah, right. Yes, now you say it, that rings a bell. House had a similar figure completed.

[Seb Patrick]

>Cracker?s opening series 2 story, lest we forget that Brit TV sometimes nails it, too.

Since I’m too lazy to check IMDb, was this “To Be A Somebody” (the Hillsborough one)? Christ, that’s probably simultaneously the best (as in craftsmanship) and worst (as in harrowing) bit of drama this country has ever produced…

[Andrew]

> Since I?m too lazy to check IMDb, was this ?To Be A Somebody?

It was. It’s not my favourite overall Cracker story – Men Should Weep holds that honor – but (SPOILER) Eccleston’s death sequence is still incredibly harrowing. The whole thing is brutally magnificent. Plus – McGovern dialogue. Just gorgeous.

For me Cracker remains the standard British TV drama should be aiming for.

[Seb Patrick]

*namedrop alert*

One of the most surreal moments of the last few years was having a wine-fuelled conversation with Joe Ahearne and Susannah Harker about how you can’t kill off Christopher Eccleston on British TV any more thanks to that episode… it would just bring upsetting memories flooding back for too many people!

/*namedrop alert*

[James]

I’m suprised (getting back to Lost here) that no one has made the conection between Red Dwarf and said series. Miss Hawking, who explained to Desmond the reason he had to leave Penny, wore an Ouroboros broach, circle of life and all that.

[pfm]

> you can?t kill off Christopher Eccleston on British TV

Apart from in The Second Coming…

> Miss Hawking, who explained to Desmond the reason he had to leave Penny, wore an Ouroboros broach

Correct. It’s interesting that if Desmond didn’t go along with what the old woman, Miss Hawking, was saying then the loop would be broken and none of Lost would have happened at all. Perhaps Lost could end with Desmond ‘flashing’ back again and going ahead and marrying Penny. He would never have ended up on the island and flight 815 would never have crashed. Or WOULD it…? What if the crashed 815 that Naomi describes, the one which crashed in the sea and had no survivors, was what happened to 815 if Desmond went back and changed things? Would they be that mad to go with that storyline?

Incidentally, in the other Desmond episode which shows him as a monk, there is a picture on the head monk’s (whatever a head monk is called) desk of himself standing with Miss Hawking. What does it mean??

[Dave]

>(whatever a head monk is called)

An Abbot. Or is that what nuns wear?

[Jonathan Capps]

> Apart from in The Second Coming?

And in Doctor Who, for that matter.

[TheLeen]

I don’t understand half of what you’re talking about, you crazy Brits with your excellent TV, but I just noticed yesterday that the Eccleston dude is in Heroes. Hahaha. I’m obviously a noob but that leaves all the more for me to discover.

[Tanya Jones]

Ecclescakes is a fantastic actor, and I’ll be interested to see what you make of him as the Doctor :)

[pfm]

Eccleston is pretty much the best thing in the second half of Heroes season 1, even though he only appears briefly. The whole back half of that season really did my head in. Poor. I’m making a point of not watching any more of it, especially after season 2 (or what few episodes of it there are) was slagged. I refuse to call it ‘Volume 2’ as well.

[Ben Paddon]

Apparently Season 2 takes a while to get going but now it’s Really Good.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

I liked Season 1 of Heroes, but I had some problems with Season 2.

[Ian Symes]

> > Apart from in The Second Coming?
>
> And in Doctor Who, for that matter.

OK, you can’t kill Ecclestone on British TV, unless you’re Russell T Davies.

[Seb Patrick]

To be fair, there are a lot of things you can’t do on TV unless you’re RTD (or Steven Moffat). CHRIS CHIBFACE TAKE NOTE.

[Andrew]

> To be fair, there are a lot of things you can?t do on TV unless you?re RTD (or Steven Moffat). CHRIS CHIBFACE TAKE NOTE

Not “can’t” there so much as “shouldn’t”.

[Author]

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