Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum on today's episode of "What The Fuck", Thanks For The Memory

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  • #234906
    flanl3
    Participant

    How the hell did they erase Lister’s and Cat’s memories in Thanks For The Memory with only access to the hologram simulation suite?

    #234909
    Hamish
    Participant

    In a very clever way that was promptly forgotten.

    #234910
    bloodteller
    Participant

    they hit themselves hard, with wood

    #234911
    Warbodog
    Participant

    Blatant clue that they’re also holograms (hard light) and Red Dwarf is a purgatory ghost ship.

    #234912
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    In the Red Dwarf universe they’re very blasé when it comes to being able to do amazing things to and with the human brain.

    Holograms. Can scan a human mind in full and generate a program that emulates it with great accuracy, to the point that they’re treated as human.

    Mind wipes/ mind swaps. Implies that the technology for holograms is so in depth and complex that it’s fully compatible with actual human minds.

    Dream recorder. Access the unconscious mind without apparatus (that we know of) and record and render dreams.

    BTL. Stick things in your brain with no issue, one size fits all. Tap in to frontal lobes and hypothalamus and simulate anything you want.

    Mechanoids. Synthetic organic brains. Last millions of years.

    #234915
    flanl3
    Participant

    Are mechanoids explicitly synthetic organic brains? Perhaps they were humans whose bodies were captured, minds were stolen, and were put into bodies to have all their processing power devoted to calculation in a torturous manner, while entirely synthetic parts did all the programmed stuff.

    Also, certainly scanning/reading somebody’s mind is a simpler task than altering it (as in this case), no?

    #235194
    tombow
    Participant

    holly hypnotized them to forget with subliminals planted in flintstones episodes.

    #235235

    Did they ever make versions of the jigsaw to sell? Because if not, that’s a hell of a missed opportunity.

    #235448
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    How does Ace know what a series 4000 mechanoid is? Rimmer and Lister are from let’s say the early 23rd century and Kryten the mid 24th, at best the series 4000s would be getting designed by Mamet and going through testing while Rimmer and Lister are approaching their 120th birthdays.

    #235449
    bloodteller
    Participant

    It’s a parallel universe, isn’t it? Maybe mechanoids were invented earlier.

    It’s like how in Stoke Me A Clipper, the Nazis are around at the same time as jet-powered rocket bikes.

    #235450
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    Ace and our Rimmer had the same life until they were 8 or whatever though, which implies everything else is broadly the same unless Ace had a hand in inventing the tech that makes Kryten possible.

    I blame Paul Alexander for the Nazi/ Jet powered but otherwise obviously a 90’s Motocross bike issue haha

    #235451
    flanl3
    Participant

    I mean, maybe what took Ace so long in that shed was fixing a normal bike up to be rocket-powered. Wouldn’t be surprised.

    #235454
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    How does Ace know what a series 4000 mechanoid is? Rimmer and Lister are from let’s say the early 23rd century and Kryten the mid 24th, at best the series 4000s would be getting designed by Mamet and going through testing while Rimmer and Lister are approaching their 120th birthdays.

    The computer onboard Ace’s ship did a scan of the lifeforms onboard and gave him a rundown. He didn’t necessarily know what a “Series 4000” was, just that Kryten was one, and because he’s a really nice guy he immediately told Kryten that he was the salt of the space corps.

    #235455
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >It’s like how in Stoke Me A Clipper, the Nazis are around at the same time as jet-powered rocket bikes.

    Well, they’re around at the same time as Ace’s jet-powered rocket bike. He could have brought it with him when he travelled through time. Then again, he’s rescuing someone called Princess Beryl Bonjela who I don’t think is an established part of mid-20th century German history, so it is probably just that he’s in a universe where Nazis are more widespread/longer lasting.

    #235465
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    He knows they’re not waterproof, don’t think that’s the kind of information that a lifeform scan would pick up.

    Also he wasn’t aware that Rimmer was a hologram so I don’t think the computer is up to much to be honest.

    #235469
    Bargain Bin Holly
    Participant

    Stoke Me a Clipper doesn’t bother me, the rocket-propelled space bike could’ve just been technology he picked up from one of his many adventures. Ace also fixing-up a motorcross bike to have jet-capabilities in the matter of seconds would also be quite amusing too.

    Ace being a high-ranking Space Corps official could’ve known about the Series 3000 being in the concept-phase, and when he came upon Kryten and noticed the differences he had from the 3000 he could’ve taken a guess that he was a 4000 model. The waterproof thing might’ve also been a guess as well.

    #235471
    bloodteller
    Participant

    is the Ace in Dimension Jump meant to be the original Ace, though? Only 200 years pass between IV and VII, and yet the ring of the planet is made up of a near-infinite amount of Rimmers. Unless the Aces were all dropping like flies, there’s no way they got that many in just 2 centuries.

    #235474
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    >is the Ace in Dimension Jump meant to be the original Ace, though? Only 200 years pass between IV and VII, and yet the ring of the planet is made up of a near-infinite amount of Rimmers. Unless the Aces were all dropping like flies, there’s no way they got that many in just 2 centuries.

    I had thought that. I feel like since Stoke Me a Clipper that was written after DJ (and post Rob) that it’s more likely that the Ace we follow is the one that turns up in our dimension. I always felt Stoke… having the new Ace thing was a way a reaction to the “can’t go back” line personally, a rare nod to continuity.

    Can never know for sure though. And I suppose it doesn’t matter but if we didn’t discuss things that didn’t matter we wouldn’t discuss much on here haha

    #235476
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >is the Ace in Dimension Jump meant to be the original Ace, though?

    Well… yeah. His jump into “our” universe is the first jump he ever makes.

    #235477
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    And it would be a really weird episode if we met a guy at the start of it and then it cut to a completely different guy arriving for the rest of the episode with no explanation whatsoever.

    #235479
    bloodteller
    Participant

    Right, but in Stoke Me A Clipper Ace specifies he took over from the Ace they met in Dimension Jump. Which would mean there’s only a total of 2 Aces- and yet the planet’s ring contains the corpses of millions.

    #235480
    bloodteller
    Participant

    I suppose it would be a pretty lousy planet ring if it only contained 2 corpses

    #235483
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    Every decision makes a new dimension though, so the one Ace from DJ may have passed the torch to the Ace in VII but the Ace in VII is just one Ace out if the thousands if not millions that exist in the dimensions of the alternative decisions DJ Ace makes.

    What’s interesting is that planet exists in all the dimensions and is viewable to all dimensions.

    #235485

    Doesn’t he say “Let’s just say there have been more than two” or something.

    Given that three million years separate Ace’s departure date and his arrival in our universe, I think the line in Backwards about him arriving in the same time period as each universe’s Rimmer can probably be taken as canon, in which case the planet’s ring hasn’t amassed in linear time, so I don’t think the number matters.

    #235487
    flanl3
    Participant

    Well Ace can surely jump through time to go right from fighting Nazisto three million years in the future, so I think it’s safe to say it’s more than 200 years of Aces.

    #235488
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Right, but in Stoke Me A Clipper Ace specifies he took over from the Ace they met in Dimension Jump. Which would mean there’s only a total of 2 Aces- and yet the planet’s ring contains the corpses of millions.

    He says he took over from him, but it’s later clarified that he didn’t do so directly.

    #235490
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >And it would be a really weird episode if we met a guy at the start of it and then it cut to a completely different guy arriving for the rest of the episode with no explanation whatsoever.

    Sudden inclination to rewatch a very good film of the last ten years.

    #235491
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Well… yeah. His jump into “our” universe is the first jump he ever makes.

    I don’t think you can say that for certain. There’s nothing in the dialogue to indicate that it’s the first dimension he jumps to. In fact, I’ve always found the line “I’m sorry, you reminded me of a fellow I once knew” jarring, as it could be read that he hasn’t seen Spanners for quite a while.

    #235494
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    it is probably just that he’s in a universe where Nazis are more widespread/longer lasting.

    That’s our universe.

    #235495
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Yeah I always took it as read that the Ace wee see throughout Dimension Jump is Ace Prime, but it very easily could be read as there being a timejump between the then and now

    #235497
    Dave
    Participant

    All of that ‘I can’t go back’ speech at the end heavily supports the idea that this is his first jump, I think. As does his reaction when meeting ‘our’ Rimmer, assuming it’s sincere.

    #235499
    flanl3
    Participant

    I’d say the opposite, actually. If it was his first jump, it would be “I don’t think I can go back” since he hadn’t tested such a theory for certain.

    #235500
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >All of that ‘I can’t go back’ speech at the end

    Yeah, but he’s spends the entire episode telling all and sundry he’ll be back for breakfast. The man’s a cretin.

    #235501
    bloodteller
    Participant

    Why did he even test out an unsafe experimental drive that even if it were successful, would leave him unable to see any of his loved ones ever again or return home?

    #235502
    bloodteller
    Participant

    Nobody really seemed to mind either, and barely anyone was there to see him off when he left. Did everyone actually think Ace was a complete wanker and were glad to be rid of him?

    #235504
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    If they were going to have just 4 people waving him off, they should have put them in some kind control room, rather than having them standing in a huge greenscreened cargo bay with ample room for extras.

    Either he’s running away from god-knows-what, or he has nothing worth living for in the first place. Oh wait, that’s something else.

    #235507
    GlenTokyo
    Participant

    I bet Mellie’s husband doesn’t like him much if she’s got one.

    #235509
    Dave
    Participant

    I like the idea that it was nothing to do with it being a top-secret project, he just didn’t have any mates.

    #235513

    “So, did it work?”
    “No idea, but at least Ace has fucked off”

    #235518
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    >Did everyone actually think Ace was a complete wanker and were glad to be rid of him?
    I love this interpretation. He probably got somebody pregnant or couldn’t keep up with his six alimony payments

    #235528
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Getting back to the OP for a second, I just wanted to mention that they also wiped Lister’s memory in M-Corp, so it’s clear that Red Dwarf having the ability to alter the memories of living people is not a one-off fudge, but deliberately consistent.

    #235539
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I had some idea a while ago (or maybe it was someone else) that each new Ace would download the memories of all previous Aces from his ship’s memory banks after taking over, so that he actually knew what the fuck he was doing and wouldn’t awkwardly bump into people that “he” had met before, but wouldn’t recognise.

    Do you think there have ever been female Ace Rimmers?

    #235541
    Bargain Bin Holly
    Participant

    Red Dwarf can alter people’s memories and record their dreams, frankly it already sounded like a prison before VIII

    #235542
    bloodteller
    Participant

    That’s the whole thing though, isn’t it? They have all these machines that can alter your mind and record your thoughts, which seems pretty nightmarish to us as the viewer, but to them it’s just a mundane utility. To the characters, a lot of the weird and dystopian stuff seems fairly normal

    #235543
    Lily
    Participant

    >Do you think there have ever been female Ace Rimmers?

    I don’t see why not. I could totally see Arlene going out there kicking arse.

    #235546

    I had some idea a while ago (or maybe it was someone else) that each new Ace would download the memories of all previous Aces from his ship’s memory banks after taking over

    Time for my weekly mention of Karnie’s wonderful post-VIII fanfic, Homecoming, in which this is mentioned.

    #235556
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    The Talkie Toaster interview with Arlene Rimmer has her mention she took over from another female Ace Rimmer and even includes this little image.

    http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/features/fiction/arlene-rimmer/arlene_5.jpg

    Also, the interview with Princess Bonjella suggests her planet was called War World and some vague conflict came about that turned the entire planet into, well, a war.

    #235580

    War World is also mentioned, by name, in Homecoming.

    #235607
    Dave
    Participant

    “I’ll write you into my will if you let it be me.”

    Does a hologram have a will? Wouldn’t Rimmer’s will have already been executed after he died?

    Can a hologram even own anything, legally?

    None of these questions will ever be answered.

    #235615

    It’s likely that holograms can’t have wills as they are the property of the ship they are running in – an assumption I’m making based on if a higher ranking crew member dies they can just switch you off, and the fact holograms are stated not to have equal rights with the living.

    However, Rimmer probably does have a will, though not much of one. He is treated as equal amongst the living crew post accident as anyone else, and he does have possessions … though Lister did burn the most valuable. Regardless I wouldn’t put it past Rimmer to have written one, excluding Lister from it, just to get one up on him if nothing else

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