on today's episode of "What The Fuck", Thanks For The Memory

[flanl3]

How the hell did they erase Lister’s and Cat’s memories in Thanks For The Memory with only access to the hologram simulation suite?

Topic

[Hamish]

In a very clever way that was promptly forgotten.

[bloodteller]

they hit themselves hard, with wood

[Warbodog]

Blatant clue that they’re also holograms (hard light) and Red Dwarf is a purgatory ghost ship.

[GlenTokyo]

In the Red Dwarf universe they’re very blasé when it comes to being able to do amazing things to and with the human brain.

Holograms. Can scan a human mind in full and generate a program that emulates it with great accuracy, to the point that they’re treated as human.

Mind wipes/ mind swaps. Implies that the technology for holograms is so in depth and complex that it’s fully compatible with actual human minds.

Dream recorder. Access the unconscious mind without apparatus (that we know of) and record and render dreams.

BTL. Stick things in your brain with no issue, one size fits all. Tap in to frontal lobes and hypothalamus and simulate anything you want.

Mechanoids. Synthetic organic brains. Last millions of years.

[flanl3]

Are mechanoids explicitly synthetic organic brains? Perhaps they were humans whose bodies were captured, minds were stolen, and were put into bodies to have all their processing power devoted to calculation in a torturous manner, while entirely synthetic parts did all the programmed stuff.

Also, certainly scanning/reading somebody’s mind is a simpler task than altering it (as in this case), no?

[tombow]

holly hypnotized them to forget with subliminals planted in flintstones episodes.

[International Debris]

Did they ever make versions of the jigsaw to sell? Because if not, that’s a hell of a missed opportunity.

[GlenTokyo]

How does Ace know what a series 4000 mechanoid is? Rimmer and Lister are from let’s say the early 23rd century and Kryten the mid 24th, at best the series 4000s would be getting designed by Mamet and going through testing while Rimmer and Lister are approaching their 120th birthdays.

[bloodteller]

It’s a parallel universe, isn’t it? Maybe mechanoids were invented earlier.

It’s like how in Stoke Me A Clipper, the Nazis are around at the same time as jet-powered rocket bikes.

[GlenTokyo]

Ace and our Rimmer had the same life until they were 8 or whatever though, which implies everything else is broadly the same unless Ace had a hand in inventing the tech that makes Kryten possible.

I blame Paul Alexander for the Nazi/ Jet powered but otherwise obviously a 90’s Motocross bike issue haha

[flanl3]

I mean, maybe what took Ace so long in that shed was fixing a normal bike up to be rocket-powered. Wouldn’t be surprised.

[Seb Patrick]

How does Ace know what a series 4000 mechanoid is? Rimmer and Lister are from let’s say the early 23rd century and Kryten the mid 24th, at best the series 4000s would be getting designed by Mamet and going through testing while Rimmer and Lister are approaching their 120th birthdays.

The computer onboard Ace’s ship did a scan of the lifeforms onboard and gave him a rundown. He didn’t necessarily know what a “Series 4000” was, just that Kryten was one, and because he’s a really nice guy he immediately told Kryten that he was the salt of the space corps.

[Seb Patrick]

>It’s like how in Stoke Me A Clipper, the Nazis are around at the same time as jet-powered rocket bikes.

Well, they’re around at the same time as Ace’s jet-powered rocket bike. He could have brought it with him when he travelled through time. Then again, he’s rescuing someone called Princess Beryl Bonjela who I don’t think is an established part of mid-20th century German history, so it is probably just that he’s in a universe where Nazis are more widespread/longer lasting.

[GlenTokyo]

He knows they’re not waterproof, don’t think that’s the kind of information that a lifeform scan would pick up.

Also he wasn’t aware that Rimmer was a hologram so I don’t think the computer is up to much to be honest.

[Bargain Bin Holly]

Stoke Me a Clipper doesn’t bother me, the rocket-propelled space bike could’ve just been technology he picked up from one of his many adventures. Ace also fixing-up a motorcross bike to have jet-capabilities in the matter of seconds would also be quite amusing too.

Ace being a high-ranking Space Corps official could’ve known about the Series 3000 being in the concept-phase, and when he came upon Kryten and noticed the differences he had from the 3000 he could’ve taken a guess that he was a 4000 model. The waterproof thing might’ve also been a guess as well.

[bloodteller]

is the Ace in Dimension Jump meant to be the original Ace, though? Only 200 years pass between IV and VII, and yet the ring of the planet is made up of a near-infinite amount of Rimmers. Unless the Aces were all dropping like flies, there’s no way they got that many in just 2 centuries.

[GlenTokyo]

>is the Ace in Dimension Jump meant to be the original Ace, though? Only 200 years pass between IV and VII, and yet the ring of the planet is made up of a near-infinite amount of Rimmers. Unless the Aces were all dropping like flies, there’s no way they got that many in just 2 centuries.

I had thought that. I feel like since Stoke Me a Clipper that was written after DJ (and post Rob) that it’s more likely that the Ace we follow is the one that turns up in our dimension. I always felt Stoke… having the new Ace thing was a way a reaction to the “can’t go back” line personally, a rare nod to continuity.

Can never know for sure though. And I suppose it doesn’t matter but if we didn’t discuss things that didn’t matter we wouldn’t discuss much on here haha

[Seb Patrick]

>is the Ace in Dimension Jump meant to be the original Ace, though?

Well… yeah. His jump into “our” universe is the first jump he ever makes.

[Seb Patrick]

And it would be a really weird episode if we met a guy at the start of it and then it cut to a completely different guy arriving for the rest of the episode with no explanation whatsoever.

[bloodteller]

Right, but in Stoke Me A Clipper Ace specifies he took over from the Ace they met in Dimension Jump. Which would mean there’s only a total of 2 Aces- and yet the planet’s ring contains the corpses of millions.

[bloodteller]

I suppose it would be a pretty lousy planet ring if it only contained 2 corpses

[GlenTokyo]

Every decision makes a new dimension though, so the one Ace from DJ may have passed the torch to the Ace in VII but the Ace in VII is just one Ace out if the thousands if not millions that exist in the dimensions of the alternative decisions DJ Ace makes.

What’s interesting is that planet exists in all the dimensions and is viewable to all dimensions.

[International Debris]

Doesn’t he say “Let’s just say there have been more than two” or something.

Given that three million years separate Ace’s departure date and his arrival in our universe, I think the line in Backwards about him arriving in the same time period as each universe’s Rimmer can probably be taken as canon, in which case the planet’s ring hasn’t amassed in linear time, so I don’t think the number matters.

[flanl3]

Well Ace can surely jump through time to go right from fighting Nazisto three million years in the future, so I think it’s safe to say it’s more than 200 years of Aces.

[Seb Patrick]

Right, but in Stoke Me A Clipper Ace specifies he took over from the Ace they met in Dimension Jump. Which would mean there’s only a total of 2 Aces- and yet the planet’s ring contains the corpses of millions.

He says he took over from him, but it’s later clarified that he didn’t do so directly.

[Pete Part Three]

>And it would be a really weird episode if we met a guy at the start of it and then it cut to a completely different guy arriving for the rest of the episode with no explanation whatsoever.

Sudden inclination to rewatch a very good film of the last ten years.

[Pete Part Three]

>Well… yeah. His jump into “our” universe is the first jump he ever makes.

I don’t think you can say that for certain. There’s nothing in the dialogue to indicate that it’s the first dimension he jumps to. In fact, I’ve always found the line “I’m sorry, you reminded me of a fellow I once knew” jarring, as it could be read that he hasn’t seen Spanners for quite a while.

[Ian Symes]

it is probably just that he’s in a universe where Nazis are more widespread/longer lasting.

That’s our universe.

[Ben Saunders]

Yeah I always took it as read that the Ace wee see throughout Dimension Jump is Ace Prime, but it very easily could be read as there being a timejump between the then and now

[Dave]

All of that ‘I can’t go back’ speech at the end heavily supports the idea that this is his first jump, I think. As does his reaction when meeting ‘our’ Rimmer, assuming it’s sincere.

[flanl3]

I’d say the opposite, actually. If it was his first jump, it would be “I don’t think I can go back” since he hadn’t tested such a theory for certain.

[Pete Part Three]

>All of that ‘I can’t go back’ speech at the end

Yeah, but he’s spends the entire episode telling all and sundry he’ll be back for breakfast. The man’s a cretin.

[bloodteller]

Why did he even test out an unsafe experimental drive that even if it were successful, would leave him unable to see any of his loved ones ever again or return home?

[bloodteller]

Nobody really seemed to mind either, and barely anyone was there to see him off when he left. Did everyone actually think Ace was a complete wanker and were glad to be rid of him?

[Pete Part Three]

If they were going to have just 4 people waving him off, they should have put them in some kind control room, rather than having them standing in a huge greenscreened cargo bay with ample room for extras.

Either he’s running away from god-knows-what, or he has nothing worth living for in the first place. Oh wait, that’s something else.

[GlenTokyo]

I bet Mellie’s husband doesn’t like him much if she’s got one.

[Dave]

I like the idea that it was nothing to do with it being a top-secret project, he just didn’t have any mates.

[International Debris]

“So, did it work?”
“No idea, but at least Ace has fucked off”

[Ben Saunders]

>Did everyone actually think Ace was a complete wanker and were glad to be rid of him?
I love this interpretation. He probably got somebody pregnant or couldn’t keep up with his six alimony payments

[Flap Jack]

Getting back to the OP for a second, I just wanted to mention that they also wiped Lister’s memory in M-Corp, so it’s clear that Red Dwarf having the ability to alter the memories of living people is not a one-off fudge, but deliberately consistent.

[Ben Saunders]

I had some idea a while ago (or maybe it was someone else) that each new Ace would download the memories of all previous Aces from his ship’s memory banks after taking over, so that he actually knew what the fuck he was doing and wouldn’t awkwardly bump into people that “he” had met before, but wouldn’t recognise.

Do you think there have ever been female Ace Rimmers?

[Bargain Bin Holly]

Red Dwarf can alter people’s memories and record their dreams, frankly it already sounded like a prison before VIII

[bloodteller]

That’s the whole thing though, isn’t it? They have all these machines that can alter your mind and record your thoughts, which seems pretty nightmarish to us as the viewer, but to them it’s just a mundane utility. To the characters, a lot of the weird and dystopian stuff seems fairly normal

[Lily]

>Do you think there have ever been female Ace Rimmers?

I don’t see why not. I could totally see Arlene going out there kicking arse.

[International Debris]

I had some idea a while ago (or maybe it was someone else) that each new Ace would download the memories of all previous Aces from his ship’s memory banks after taking over

Time for my weekly mention of Karnie’s wonderful post-VIII fanfic, Homecoming, in which this is mentioned.

[Plastic Percy]

The Talkie Toaster interview with Arlene Rimmer has her mention she took over from another female Ace Rimmer and even includes this little image.

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/features/fiction/arlene-rimmer/arlene_5.jpg

Also, the interview with Princess Bonjella suggests her planet was called War World and some vague conflict came about that turned the entire planet into, well, a war.

[International Debris]

War World is also mentioned, by name, in Homecoming.

[Dave]

“I’ll write you into my will if you let it be me.”

Does a hologram have a will? Wouldn’t Rimmer’s will have already been executed after he died?

Can a hologram even own anything, legally?

None of these questions will ever be answered.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It’s likely that holograms can’t have wills as they are the property of the ship they are running in – an assumption I’m making based on if a higher ranking crew member dies they can just switch you off, and the fact holograms are stated not to have equal rights with the living.

However, Rimmer probably does have a will, though not much of one. He is treated as equal amongst the living crew post accident as anyone else, and he does have possessions … though Lister did burn the most valuable. Regardless I wouldn’t put it past Rimmer to have written one, excluding Lister from it, just to get one up on him if nothing else

[Warbodog]

Why does Kryten say “come rain or shine, we’d always make time for curry night” when there’s no weather on Starbug??? Don’t give me this “he’s speaking colloquially” smeg.

[Author]

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