Original Series IX Pitch

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    Just wondering – does anyone know much about the rejected pitch Grant Naylor Productions submitted in the mid-2000’s to BBC Two for Series IX? Did any of the ideas make it into X/XI/XII?




    Doug Naylor is no longer interested in the audience Series IX used to attract.



    I imagine Doug didn’t need a pitch to ask the BBC for another series.


    Ben Saunders

    “We’re no longer interested in 8 million people”



    If there was any pitch at all it would likely just have been ‘the four guys, audience, back to the old Dwarf style’ etc. similar to X, which is what Doug wanted to do, initially, instead of what BtE became.

    It’s interesting how the Beeb are now very much willing to bring back and push their old properties, League of Gentlemen, Partridge etc. (as they bloody should). You’ve got to wonder whether they would have been willing to bring back Dwarf in this current climate. Granted, there would be budget concerns… like with the new League specials, that seem to have been done on a crazy tight schedule and budget.



    I’m wondering if the delay in announcing XIII is because there’s discussions going on about whether it’ll continue on Dave or go back to the BBC. Total speculation but it would fit with the general trend.


    Ben Saunders

    I remember reading some article about the BBC looking at old properties recently which increased the likelihood of Red Dwarf ever being on BBC2 again in my mind from 0.00125% to 0.0125%. Still firmly in “not going to happen” mode.


    Ben Saunders

    (I am of course open to being wrong)



    I guess as BBC part-owns UKTV, such a deal wouldn’t be impossible to draw up.



    I mean, if there is a literal fight going on over it, that would make sense how Doug is getting his “certain” figure on there being a XIII.


    Ben Saunders




    Heading in the right direction!



    Would being on the BBC really offer Doug all that much more than Dave at this point?



    Perhaps more of an audience. Perhaps. But probably nothing else.



    Perhaps the BBC are finally interested in the same audiences again after a quite edgy mid-life crisis.



    Red Dwarf is probably better for Dave than it would be for the BBC.


    Ben Saunders

    Indeed KyoSo, which is why if this is happening I’d imagine Dave would fight quite hard for it, and I’d feel a bit guilty leaving Dave honestly but if it was for the better of the show I might have to do it.

    A bigger potential audience definitely, and possibly a bigger budget. But with the way the BBC have been treating Doctor Who for the past, oh, five years, doesn’t fill me with much hope about them. We have missed at least two year’s worth of series’ from Who in recent times, maybe even three. There are rumours that we missed an entire season of Matt Smith because the BBC decided to split Series 7 against Moffat’s wishes, after his failed experiment of splitting Series 6. Then of course there was this year, another with no Who, and the one where we only had two Christmas specials in a row.



    Series 7 was split because that was the only way they could produce 13 episodes with Moffat’s workload, which he has said was “killing him”. The way the episodes were split across 2012 and 2013 effectively gave us a gap year.


    International Debris

    Then of course there was this year, another with no Who

    Apart from series 10. The gap was last year, which was there was Moffat hadn’t made plans to write another series, originally believing he was due to leave the showrunner role after The Husbands of River Song.



    I’d only go back to the BBC if they offered some massive leap in budget to be honest, because I think that’s the only thing Doug doesn’t have that he’d like. Maybe a bit more time too.

    Can’t see it myself, maybe they could show the episodes on BBC2 after they’ve been on Dave or maybe they’ll have some 30th anniversary deal with UKTV to show some as a one off as part of a celebration that’s unlikely to happen. I can’t think of an example of that happening though, and would the BBC have the ability to do it anyway? The adbreaks make it more unlikely I think because it by default makes the ones broadcast on the BBC superior.

    You have to think also that Dave would be majorly miffed if Doug packed up and went back to the BBC, and if the BBC suddenly decided to not do it anymore after one series, Dave might not want it back, or they’d have it back but slash the budget as punishment or something.

    Of course it’s probably not anywhere near going back to the BBC.

    Maybe a dramatic spin off, Mimas, the seedy underbelly of the Dwarf universe starring Sean Bean, with BTTF2 style background footage of Lister composited in haha


    Ben Saunders

    >Series 7 was split because that was the only way they could produce 13 episodes with Moffat’s workload, which he has said was “killing him”. The way the episodes were split across 2012 and 2013 effectively gave us a gap year.

    Actually… rumours. The series 6 split was definitely Moffat’s idea, the Series 7 split was the BBC’s decision


    Ben Saunders

    Unless the story has changed since a couple years ago when I cared


    Ben Saunders

    Also yes it was last year, to not interfere with the world cup and make it a national event or something. A national event that achieved the lowers ratings since the 80s, possibly ever



    The revived version of Doctor Who has managed 10 series in the 13 years it’s been on. So three series have been lost – one was replaced with Tennant’s year of specials under RTD, and two due were lost to the split season 7 and the year off under Moffat.


    International Debris

    Also yes it was last year, to not interfere with the world cup and make it a national event or something.

    Did anyone actually believe this, though? It sounded like a really desperate attempt to cover something up, even before we knew Moffat hadn’t planned to do another series.


    Ben Saunders

    I thought, either they’re lying or they’re stupid. The fact that they had just gotten a new controller of the BBC or something made it a bit more believable, because that sounds like exactly the kind of shit they’d do for no reason other than to make their mark



    The other reason was to push it into the Autumn slot. Though I guess the main reason for splitting series 7 was to stop there being a full series, plus the 50th special, plus a Christmas special, all produced in one year (this is what people presumed when Moffat said something like ‘there’s gonna be more Doctor Who than ever before’).

    Though I don’t think they did the show any favours with this decision. It doesn’t help there were some godawful episodes being made during this time (series 7 is generally a mess, with one or two good ones surrounded by shite, and a total nonsensical storyline with Clara, just imo ofc)


    Ben Saunders

    Clara was pants in S7 but she really, really improved once she got rid of the Impossible Girl baggage and was given a personality imo. S7 is just forgettable for the most part. I like how them fucking up Asylum of the Daleks gave us all the classic series Daleks in the series 9 opener.


    Flap Jack

    If Red Dwarf goes back to the BBC, will Lister stop being able to see or hear all of the Dave-era plot elements?




    Wait, wrong thread.



    Red Dwarf should go back to the BBC for Series IX, and then return to Dave for Series XIII.

    It’ll drive the casual fans crazy, but they’ll never figure it out.



    *waits for International Debris to come yell about the French and one-episode series*


    International Debris







    Do you do the whole introduce yourself thing?



    do you want to see my modelling portfolio?



    I’ve just got off a three hour phone call with International Debris. Do you realize how awful you are? You’ve treated them like absolute scum. How could you make fun of them over calling it Red Dwarf IX. They’re an actual person you know. You all disgust me. I’m leaving.



    You call it Red Dwarf IX? In that case, ‘step into my office’.



    Not so much a lighthearted comedy episode, but my all time favourite is “Let that Be Your Last Battlefield”. I’d seen pictures and heard the basic concept for the episode beforehand and really wasn’t looking forward to it. Seemed like a stupid idea and I could instantly guess how it was all going to resolve itself in the most cliched and predictable way… but I was wrong. It doesn’t do the predictable conclusion I had assumed it would. Really great episode.



    Sorry… Posted a reply into the wrong thread and can’t delete or edit it.



    I think Star Trek should move to the BBC next series.

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