The End – The Smeg it is or not?

[Rhodan]

Hi, fellow RD fans. Altough this is not going to be most original theme for my first topic here, it keeps bugging me.

The end for the Series VIII and the show as a whole keeps irritating many of us by it??s cliffhanger but was a subject for many of re-writes and I kinda can?t help myself wondering if the used one was from better or worse ones of options.

– Above mentioned ending with kneeing of Grim Reaper is for many people (including my dad) hilarious, not so much for me. It is cartainly giggle-worth but at the same time too both surreal and low-brow and also ending by the joke doesn?t change the fact that unless something radical happens, rimmer and the ship are doomed. also, the idea that dwarfers crossed to the mirror universe and somehow passed by with Rimmer feels kinda forced.

– Proposed shot on Rimmer falling comatose would be fine since as I allready said, it?s technically the same thing, except of pseudo-joke.

-I can see many arguments against that Ace ending as being it overdone idea but here might be interesting perspective to future series as it would be “Holographic smeghead” facing “Resurrected Smeghead”.Yes, the Rimmer facing (and always hating) different version of himself was done to death. But this Ace is after all dwarfer and the bastard we all know.

-Finally, the filmed alternative ending. Rimmer being only one who doesn?t know the substence isn?t the most funny stuff I?ve heard in RD but I guess it is fine by season VIII standards.and sadism of “I see no ships.” is priceless. however, revenge of vending machine is once again dull.

So, I think that from all possibilities, the choosen ending was the worst. Now it?s your turn.

Topic

[Paul Muller]

Right. I’ve been looking for an excuse to skive off writing my culture studies essay , so thanks.

I think you’re right about the ending. The whole ‘Death’ scene is a bit ridiculous. Kneeing Death in the balls? This is Rimmer we’re talking about here, he’d probably just have a panic attack or beg for mercy like a little girl.

The caption at the end was particularly enraging. Presumably as another series or movie was supposed to follow. But given the situation now, a better wording might be

The End….

Smeg. It is.

[Phil]

>The caption at the end was particularly enraging.

That’s really the only thing I dislike about the ending as-is. Granted, I think I’d have far preferred a rewrite of the “I see no ships” one, but I’m not complaining about what we have.

EXCEPT for that damn caption, which really bugs me.

>The End?.
>Smeg. It is.

Ha! Well done. (But hopefully not true…)

[Dave]

The caption reads more like a review to me.

[TheLeen]

> The whole ?Death? scene is a bit ridiculous. Kneeing Death in the balls?

So what? I always thought it was a nice way to (temporarily… for now…) end the show on a quote of the second episode ever… as Lister in Future Echoes said if the Reaper was going to come for him he was going to rip his nipples off…

[thomasaevans]

The first time I saw the ending, I was furious. I thought It was absolute trash.

I was sat in the living room with my mum and my sis, who just looked at me as If to say “You love this show?”…. I was really gutted.

So…better ending? None of the above. I dont like any of the episode in general. Infact, better to end with something completley different.

Out of all the endings… probably the one with the cast in Hollisters Bedroom. And that bit with Rimmer and Kryten looking through the window could of carried on to reveal the exterior of the ship, much like the lister painting opening sequence…THAT would of been cool.

[John Hoare]

I was sat in the living room with my mum and my sis, who just looked at me as If to say ?You love this show???. I was really gutted.

STANDARD DISCLAIMER: This following isn’t meant to start a VII/VIII argument, honest!

I remember watching both Tikka and BITR1 with my sister and her boyfriend when they were first on. And it was a very odd feeling – because I wasn’t keen on them… but couldn’t quite admit it to either myself, or the people I was watching it with. But I had that creeping sense of embarassment. So I tried to convince myself that I did like them…

Truth be told, it took me a long time to admit that I wasn’t keen on those last two series. Now, I wouldn’t have a problem if I didn’t like something I previously adored – but back then, for some reason, it was an issue with me. I never watched VII/VIII obsessively like the other series – but I never really admitted to myself at the time that I wasn’t that keen on them. Which is really, really odd and stupid.

[Turk Thrust]

Personally I think that the Death ending is out of character with Dwarf as a show. It feels, to me at least, like an idea that could be ok in The Simpsons or Family Guy maybe if it was done right but to have Rimmer metaphorically meeting Death in Dwarf doesn’t work for me.

The other endings wouldn’t have been classics but I think the straightforward death scene would have been my preferred option.

[Andrew]

I think this is the thing – there’s a distinct shift of genre in VII and VIII. Now, I like the new incarnation, but there’s no question – Rimmer flashbacks and dreams in Blue, Kryten’s nightmare/daydream in Duct Soup, Rimmer’s clash with a Bergman-esque Death in Only the Good, even Kryten’s recap narration in Nanarchy…these are all storytelling devices, legitimate in themselves, but that the previous incarnation wouldn’t touch.

Sure we see Cat’s dream in Parallel Universe, and Lister/Rimmer’s memories and dreams in Thanks for the Memory – but they’re motivated by diegetic devices. By dream recorders and projection suite databanks.

As to the ‘showing other people’ thing – I was in uni when VIII went out, and played BITR part one to a friend who’d never seen the show. (He was Greek, the whacky foreigner.) He was totally blown away by it. Partly the look of the thing – a BBC sitcom that looked that good, it impressed we feeble media students – but also the amount of great big laughs.

I think the creeping “sense of embarrassment” comes from knowing the people you’re with well enough to know what they’d like as much as anything else.

[pfm]

> but also the amount of great big laughs

I presume you mean the low amount.

Tikka was on Dave last week and even though I’ve seen it many MANY times it suddenly hit me that the very first moment of it sums up the entireity of VII and VIII – the audience laugh but NOTHING FUNNY HAPPENS. It’s just Lister looking into the camera. Does this deserve a laugh? Fuck no. The Xtended version is way better for this reason. VII should have had no laughter at all, and it should have been produced with that in mind instead of the forced out-of-place gags and pauses for laughs.

VII should have been a COMPLETE departure rather than half-baked both ways. VIII is another story. There’s no excuse for it, apart from the 8 episode issue.

[Ben Paddon]

I’m surprised no one has thrown in the “VII and VIII actually take place in a reality pocket” theory yet. That one always makes me giggle.

I personally really enjoyed VII, but nothing in VIII really stands out for me now. I enjoy “Cassandra”, despite it mostly being a retread of “Future Echoes”, and there are one or two gags in “Pete” that still elicit a smirk from me, but on the whole VIII feels… wrong. I don’t object to some elements of the basic premise – the Nanobots resurrecting the crew is fine, but incorporating a Prison into a mining ship feels very wrong to me.

As for that ending, which is in fact the real point of this thread… none of the proposed endings work for me, and a it is at the moment, Rimmer’s dead. He has no way of escaping. He’s done for. Kaputski. But then, that’s not the same Rimmer we all know and hate, is it? It’s the show’s second Rimmer, or the fourth if you count the two Ace Rimmers. If that Rimmer is dead then, honestly, I couldn’t give a smeg.

[Andrew]

> I presume you mean the low amount.

Oh just fuck completely off.

[Paul Muller]

Right. Everyone take a deep breath….1,2,3…And relax. I’ll make some tea and we can get on with our lives.

[listerssock]

Memories.

[Ben Paddon]

Like the corners of my mind.

[pfm]

> Oh just fuck completely off.

;)

[thomasaevans]

Ok then… flipside since this IS going where no-one wants It to go. Watching BITR Part 1 with Mam, Dad and Sis… they all nearly collapsed in hysterics at the rat-arsed scene… and ‘both cheeks’… Plus watching Tikka with Mam and Dad, they thought It to be extremley clever, entertaining AND funny.

Some of Eight is great…
Some of Seven is heaven.

See what I did there? ;)

Put it this way, Id rather see Series VII or VIII of Dwarf, than of Hyperdrive, Green Green Grass OR Little Britain!

[Pete Part Three]

Oddly enough, I was going to use the rat-arsed scene in this thread to prove the completely opposite point. It’s mostly awful… with the bizarre exception of the rat doing somersaults after the initial ‘joke’ which made me smile. A bit.

Wont argue about Tikka, except the “funny” bit. It’s certainly the best episode of VII.

And I’d rather have series one of Little Britain than Red Dwarf VIII any day. They’re both hopelessly infantile but Little Britain 1 made me laugh.

[Rhodan]

I remember liking Tikka as well but the longer I think about it, the more it seems to illustrate what is wrong about the season in general. Namely:
overdramatization , too serious sci-fi elements, screwing of characters (Lister being jerk to his mechanoid buddy and not caring about timeline, goofy jokes with morality-less Kryten himself and Rimmer admiring politician like Kennedy), several simply unfunny scenes like Lister/Kryten moments in and after the prologue.

Add allready known problems with logic and continuity and it pretty much fails. For me, only episodes from VII worth to watch are “Beyond the joke” and “Epideme”.

[Phil]

>and Rimmer admiring politician like Kennedy

Do you think it’s that much of a stretch that Rimmer would admire Kennedy? I personally don’t. Especially since the Dwarfers exist so far ahead of our own time-line that the only things he’s likely to even know about the man are superficial: he was young, good looking, well respected, powerful and extremely popular with women.

Had he known Kennedy in real life (or even lived at the same time as Kennedy) he probably would have been very jealous…but for Rimmer, Kennedy is a historical figure only, and I don’t think it’s at all unlikely that he would have admired everything the man had.

Of course, you may be approaching this from a different direction, and taking into account something I’m not.

[Dave]

?Beyond the joke? is apt. It’s so postmodern it doesn’t contain any.

[Pete Part Three]

Yeah, I don’t have too much problem with Rimmer admiring Kennedy (even if he wasn’t a fascist dictator). My chief problem with the Kennedy stuff is the embarrassing scene in the prison van with Lister (and the annoying groans from the audience).

>?Beyond the joke? is apt. It?s so postmodern it doesn?t contain any.

I was going to dispute this as I rather like the story and prefer this to a lot of VII, but I thought for a while and could only think of one funny moment: the noise the Bennett sister makes when she’s shot by Kryten’s poisoned dart. Um, that’s it.

I think Able crashing in the escape pod is one of my favourite model shots from Red Dwarf, mind.

[Rhodan]

> Do you think it?s that much of a stretch that Rimmer would admire Kennedy? I personally don?t.

Above all I just can?t imagine someone with personality as in “Meltdown”, happy to train bunch of “sloths and pseudo-liberals” to give a credit to the leftist president who was cooling down the international atmosphere in the time of crisis. It?s not so much big deal,though.

>My chief problem with the Kennedy stuff is the embarrassing scene in the prison van with Lister (and the annoying groans from the audience).

Yeah, I agree.

>?Beyond the joke? is apt. It?s so postmodern it doesn?t contain any.

This is highly subjective and I am not sure if I can explain that. It?s just that somehow it looked to me as being close to the classic era including style of jokes (altough not the strength).

[Nakrophile]

> OR Little Britain

Yeah, it’s a bag of shite, isn’t it.

[Author]

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