Titan: Part 4 – SPOILERS

[Ian Symes]

Welcome to the spoiler-laden discussion thread for Red Dwarf: Titan Part 4: Onthou Jy Is Sterfliek.

This is a place for no-holds-barred, detailed, nitty-gritty opinions and theories on everything in the fourth part of the book. Please try and avoid referencing anything from beyond this part, so that people can visit each thread as they complete each section of the book. And if you haven’t yet read Part 4, get out of here immediately.

Your comments may be used in the DwarfCast Book Club at a future date, so if your point is related to a specific sub-chapter, do mark it clearly.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

 

Topic

[Podey]

Well, I think we all thought the same thing when “Norman” starts talking about how Red Dwarf screwed him over and stole his personality to make into Holly, right…? That whole chapter blew me away, on a meta level.
Not sure about the actual twist, mind, found it a bit tough to envisage “Norman” in that role. I’m looking forward to taking it all in again in with the audiobook and seeing how Chris’s performance affects that.

[Ian Symes]

Incredible that the Big Cheese was the greatest and most prolific lover who ever lived.

[Paul Muller]

I’d be interested to hear (actual) Norman’s thoughts on that whole section…

[Jonsmad]

I fucking love the meta Norm revel, so glad he didn’t go so far to call him Lovett. I heard it revealed by Chris Barrie’s gangster voice impression which was perfectly not norm.

What is Chris’s Ingrid voice supposed to be ??? It sounds like Eric Morecambe to me! Might have to ask him about that at the convention this weekend. I really want to see him do the new leg salute, that bit had me grinning hugely.  

[Dave]

Well, I think we all thought the same thing when “Norman” starts talking about how Red Dwarf screwed him over and stole his personality to make into Holly, right…? That whole chapter blew me away, on a meta level.

Yeah, calling him Norman was the point when I thought “I can’t believe he’s actually doing this”.

[tombow]

I can’t remember what part it was in, but the part where they download Kryten’s mind to Curzon was straight out of Star Wars Episode 9 wasn’t it? When they do the same to C3PO with the Sith program.

Also, there’s a range of monster toys called Papo, and one of them is a gorilla gladiator with a running shoe on. We had this toy about ten years ago. I thought of this when they said the gorilla fighter would trainers on.

[Dave]

I can’t remember what part it was in, but the part where they download Kryten’s mind to Curzon was straight out of Star Wars Episode 9 wasn’t it? When they do the same to C3PO with the Sith program.

It reminded me very strongly of what they do in Alien: Romulus with Rook and Andy (which came out in 2024, during the time this book was being written).

[Doomitron]

What is Chris’s Ingrid voice supposed to be ??? It sounds like Eric Morecambe to me!

The voice is horrific, I thought she was supposed to be an elderly haggardly woman for half the book. Only part of his performance I think does the book a major disservice, otherwise its been great.

[Podey]

How does he handle the voice of Kochanski’s double? 

Something that bugged me in the book was that it’s stated she had her appearance changed to look like her “from a photo” (iirc) but no explanation of how they were able to match her voice (or that her voice was even changed) if it was from a photo, just everybody reacts to her like she also sounds like Kochanski. I imagine that might be even more apparent in audio form when you’re actually hearing her, presumably, sounding the same… again, unless I missed something.

[Doomitron]

Chris doesn’t even attempt to do a voice for Kochanski it occasionally becomes hard to tell if he’s narrating or talking as her, for her double her voice is the same throughout she has some faint accent (that sounds pretty inconsistent if I’m honest) of some kind and it doesn’t change after she adopts Kochanski’s appearance.

[Doomitron]

To give Chris some praise though I thought his performance as Carzen was pretty good and distinguished itself well with Kryten’s cameo, I knew Carzen’s voice was slightly off from his Kryten voice in Infinity and BTL and figured maybe his impression changed with age, but his voice as Kryten was the exact same which correlated with the text specifying Carzen’s voice had gone “slightly Canadian”. So that was well done, but I think Chris has a blindspot when it comes to mimicking/voicing women.

[Dave]

Maybe it was just the fact that this was a new version of Kochanski and so he didn’t have a model to impersonate. If it had been more clearly the Claire or Chloe version I’m sure he could have “done” them easily (stop it).

[si]

Yeah, the reveal of Norman definitely blind-sided me. Great stuff.
And, as I haven’t received my book yet, and I’m still listening to it, the fact that Kochanski doesn’t have much of a distinct voice from Chris is a bit jarring. When her Yorkshire heritage (is that what it said? I hate not being able to just flick back and look) was mentioned, I was interested to hear how she was going to be played, and wondered if there were going to be any particular colloquialisms in the text… But anyway, let’s forget about that, that’s the performance, not the book.

[tombow]

for some reason the idea of Rimmer’s contract having small print on the edge really made me laugh

I visualised Kochanksi as looking like C Grogan, but with a Yorkshire accent

[Warbodog]

Chapter 4

Ha! I was a bit concerned that the reveal was going to be a letdown or cheap after all the build-up, but this was brilliantly unexpected. This is why they get paid to write, they’re very good at it.

I had to think back to confirm that this Kochanski was actually Kochanski now and not pretending or double bluffing. You kind of have to read this book in one go.

Chapter 6

This is getting meta now. The walls of reality are crumbling, it feels like anything can happen.

It had seemed to me that the Meneer was some future sod who had in for the Boys from the Dwarf specifically, so him being contemporary and just hating the JMC is much more to my liking.

There’s a shade of the personality tuck machine, but it basically Polymorphs him.

Chapter 8

Interesting twist – is this being suggested as a(n optional fanon) retcon that was responsible all along, letting Rimmer off the hook?

There are a lot of high-brow classical references in this book.

The most thrilling chapter so far, and it’s not even the one with the GELF dino in it.

Chapter 9

We joked about Rob Grant’s Pete for years. I’m genuinely bloodthirsty.

Chapter 10

Lister’s much more sympathetic when Rimmer’s not around to constantly wind him up. See how much he cares about everyone!

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

> Interesting twist – is this being suggested as a(n optional fanon) retcon that was responsible all along, letting Rimmer off the hook?

Rimmer isn’t on the hook in the book universe anyway, if was never his fault

[Dave]

It had seemed to me that the Meneer was some future sod who had in for the Boys from the Dwarf specifically, so him being contemporary and just hating the JMC is much more to my liking.

There’s a red herring earlier on in the book which hints that it’s some future version of Rimmer (a reference to him having come to Titan and his friends having stolen his savings) which helped the reveal to land as a genuine surprise for me.

[Warbodog]

Chapter 11

Let the mayhem commence. That was almost as catastrophic as the Official Red Dwarf Convention.

Chapter 13

And here we get to the real Rimmer, when he finally gives up fooling himself. A sad case.

Chapter 14

I only realised I’d cast Dr Godbold as the Back in the Red, Part 2 Doctor when a 1988 Robert Bathurst Todhunter showed up and I struggled to mentally split-screen them together.

Despite his supposed importance, Cat feels completely unnecessary to the plot and just there for cheap gags. Just how it should be.

Chapter 15

Another good twist that it wasn’t Lister who saved Rimmer. He gets a snog and is technically owed $£1,000,000 or whatever for honouring his contract. Things are looking up.

Chapter 16

And back down where he belongs.

Chapter 17

The gang’s all back together for what may be the most hilarious buddy banter of the book.

“2319” (first line) is clearly intended to be the year Carzon was manufactured, making that more or less the setting… I serenely don’t care.

[Warbodog]

> Interesting twist – is this being suggested as a(n optional fanon) retcon that was responsible all along, letting Rimmer off the hook?

Rimmer isn’t on the hook in the book universe anyway, if was never his fault

I know, but they clearly forgot or ignored that detail, which was never that satisfying in the first place. Kryten confirmed the retcon intention in the last chapter of part 4 now I’ve read that, but it’s not like any of this affects the various TV discontinuities anyway.

[Warbodog]

everybody reacts to her like she also sounds like Kochanski.

Bugged me too. They’re great on imagery and smells, but it’s like they hadn’t considered the audio dimension.

There’s a red herring earlier on in the book which hints that it’s some future version of Rimmer (a reference to him having come to Titan and his friends having stolen his savings) which helped the reveal to land as a genuine surprise for me.

Yeah, I was thinking some future or double-double-alternate Rimmer for a while as my only real vague theory, but then not. The early scene where Red Dwarf seems to be the focus of his revenge was effective semi-misdirection too.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

It had seemed to me that the Meneer was some future sod who had in for the Boys from the Dwarf specifically, so him being contemporary and just hating the JMC is much more to my liking.
There’s a red herring earlier on in the book which hints that it’s some future version of Rimmer (a reference to him having come to Titan and his friends having stolen his savings) which helped the reveal to land as a genuine surprise for me.

Again, for those listening Maneer is given a rather cockney London accent. Nothing like the actor’s but it is an accent that isn’t mentioned in the text so I feel may have been picked based on who the character is. Also I believe it describes changing voices as if there are many of them alongside the various changing faces of the mask. 

[Dave]

the various changing faces of the mask. 

Talking of this, was anyone else visualising the Scramble Suit outfits from A Scanner Darkly when this was described? It’s a very similar concept and I’m sure Rob would know his PKD (especially since Red Dwarf is entirely based on Blade Runner).

[Warbodog]

More like a shifting Legion for me.

[loadoftottnumb]

Well I found part 4 the best so far, I was gripped and can’t wait to see what happens now 

[Asclepius]

“Well, I think we all thought the same thing when “Norman” starts talking about how Red Dwarf screwed him over and stole his personality to make into Holly, right…? That whole chapter blew me away, on a meta level.”

Yeah, I liked the reveal. I like the name. As for Norman acting it? Yeah, it’s tricky, but I’ll cope. The idea of a man with lovely ethics having them taken away…yeah, one of the better ideas here, I think.

“What is Chris’s Ingrid voice supposed to be ??? It sounds like Eric Morecambe to me! Might have to ask him about that at the convention this weekend. “

I *hated* this voice. It just didn’t work for me. (Although I read and finished the book with my eyes, I’ve started listening to the first chapters as audio now).

Dr. Godbold. Didn’t gel with this character at all. A joke in search of a personality.

[sleepey]

I remember Pez being advertised when I was a kid but absolutely no one I knew ever had or wanted one so I’ve always found its permeation into popular culture a bit weird & possibly sinister.

Again, for those listening Maneer is given a rather cockney London accent. Nothing like the actor’s but it is an accent that isn’t mentioned in the text so I feel may have been picked based on who the character is.

He uses rhyming slang, the helmet chafes his “lords and peers” etc

[Podey]

I loved a Pez! 

[Dave]

Big fan of Pez.

[sleepey]

[Author]

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