Titan: Prologue & Part 1 – SPOILERS

[Ian Symes]

Welcome to the spoiler-laden discussion thread for Red Dwarf: Titan Prologue and Part 1: Walverlof.

This is a place for no-holds-barred, detailed, nitty-gritty opinions and theories on everything in the first part of the book. Please try and avoid referencing anything from beyond this part, so that people can visit each thread as they complete each section of the book. And if you haven’t yet read Part 1, get out of here immediately.

Your comments may be used in the DwarfCast Book Club at a future date, so if your point is related to a specific sub-chapter, do mark it clearly.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

 

 

Topic

[Ben Saunders]

RIP the Recent Forum Posts feature for the foreseeable future. My book hasn’t even been dispatched yet!

[Jonsmad]

I’m bloody loving this book. I love that there is new Red Dwarf. That’s great. Then it’s full length Rob Grant something we haven’t had since the mId 90s. And it’s a novel we equally havnt had that also for such a long time. A co author and an alt prequel all of that’s fascinating. The biggest wow is something of an answer to the question what would rob write now? What would it be like. That is a question we’ve now got a feel for. It’s also his last gift. 

Ultimately this book which I’m 95% through when writing this, has fascinated and thrilled me. More than I expected to be honest. I like it more than Strangerers and colony by a nose, both of which I like more Quanderhorn or any other solo work, so it’s the best solo Rob Grant since Backwards for me. 

Like a lot of modern movies like ghostbusters afterlife etc I feel a bit of fan service referencing and the prequel setting makes it feel modern. It’s very strange that some things get a mention from modern life put into this future setting that dwarf universes hadn’t before. Like a photon phone etc.  I will not get  bogged down though into any cannon continuity because of the “one universe to the side” being a catch all for me. 

I find the lister and Rimmer stuff very funny very joyous new character bickering. I love nearly all of it and “lavender tang” is already a catchphrase in my garden now. 

So he’s my first note for the dwarf cast book club. We get a new mech character who is clear a Kryten sub. But I also love the fact he differs with the concept just a little, especially in his fresh take on judging Rimmer and coming to similar conclusions. 

Admirable Chrichton a play and movie about a butler gave us – Kryten.  We have Downton Abbey to thank for Mr Carson the butler giving us Carzon. 

[Ian Symes]

Ah, I hadn’t made the Carson connection! Downton Xanadu.

[Jonathan Capps]

Proloog, surely?

[Jonsmad]

In my imagination I’ve cast a young 1988 robert as Carson, and made him more human like in the head department the way Gordon kenedy looked as hudzen

[Podey]

My mind kept defaulting to Robert’s voice for Carson but I was aiming for David Ross. 

[evilmorwen]

(And don’t forget Hudson is the Scottish butler in Upstairs Downstairs)

[Paul Muller]

I really liked that mention of Red Dwarf being towed into dock and its shadow plunging the city into darkness, one of many moments that would have worked terrifically onscreen. 

[Jonsmad]

Rimmer impersonating a Hologram after a Honda Collison – Fucking Hilarious. Love it.  

[Jonsmad]

Head Cannon: The rich descendants of Thickie Holden formed the basis of Titans early colonists who named the main settlement after their greatx ancestors favourite song.  

[Jonsmad]

Last observation from me this afternoon as I’m I’m hogging these threads while everyone’s reading or out working or nursing football defeat hangovers. Red Dwarf now encompasses Felicity Kendall’s Bottom and (chapter 23 – Cilia’s Arse) 

[clem]

Just a few of the thoughts I noted down as I was reading. 

Proloog

I suppose Red Dwarf was always bound to have flying cars in it one day. It was inspired by Blade Runner, after all.

Cutting out the tracker – a little bit of gore already. Good. 

Chapter 1

A good way to introduce characters old and new with these little vignettes. I love the Pez dispenser gag. 

Interesting that there’s an explanation of what skutters are for new readers. 

So Kochanski’s getting married, and there are two Listers? Is this Stasis Leak then?

Chapter 2

Very much wasn’t expecting Rimmer doing the extra long salute from BITR in this novel.

Chapter 3

I’m very much enjoying the dynamic between Petersen and Pear (or ‘Peach’ as page 36 would have it) but do Petersen and Lister not know each other?

Chapter 4

The Holly Buddy. ISWYDT

[clem]

Chapter 7

The descriptions of all the attractions in Uptown is great. Evocative and funny, just like the kind of world-building in the Grant Naylor novels. I want a live-action adaptation of this book with Danny John-Jules in a cameo as the rat version of Sammy Davis Jr.

Chapter 8.

“It was, in short, noisy.”  That’s one of my favourite bits so far. 

Chapter 9.

Ah, yes I thought Carzon’s master would turn out to be the big bad. 

Chapter 14

One of the art experts Petersen fights with is the Regis Professor of Lunar Art at ‘New Harvard’ on page 84, but ‘New Yale’ on page 85. That’s not a mistake is it.

[tombow]

I felt really stressed and annoyed at how the boys were keeping Curzon with them when he had to get back to his master. I found it really cruel.

[Ian Symes]

The Holly Buddy. ISWYDT

It took me an embarrassingly long time to SWTDT.

[Podey]

Is that Holly acronym new? I don’t recall if we’ve seen it before.

[Dave]

Is that Holly acronym new? I don’t recall if we’ve seen it before.

I believe so.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Is that Holly acronym new? I don’t recall if we’ve seen it before.

Yes. And it’s either really genius, or really stupid. I can’t quite decide.
Throughout Rob updates little ideas like this. Having HOLLY, a bit like HAL, be an acronym sort of makes sense in this version of reality.
Question is, what does HILLY stand for?? Or for that matter, Gordon?

In this reality Holly as a concept is brand new, and as a piece of AI seems to being slowly rolled out across the solar system, with budget versions available to boost sales. 

What does that say for other AI we know to exist?

This is one of many things that complements and contradicts what we’ve seen before that on one hand can be waved away by “one universe to the side” but on the other will be interesting to discuss ad nauseam and try and slot into lore

[Jonathan Capps]

What does that say for other AI we know to exist?

Carzon’s obsequiousness reminds me a lot of how LLMs go on about how brilliant you are for asking a basic question.

[clem]

I had to look up YABA, which is what the Y in Holly stands for. It’s ‘Yet Another Bloody Acronym’.

I’m intrigued by this really strange bit in Chapter 28 when Lister tries to let Frankenstein go, but she clearly doesn’t want to and so he just lets her stay in the backpack. 
Somehow – he didn’t know why – he sensed this was an auspicious moment. He straightened up. ‘Now,’ he announced to no-one in particular, ‘we are four.’

[tombow]

wasn’t this Frankenstein male?

[Dave]

I’m intrigued by this really strange bit in Chapter 28 when Lister tries to let Frankenstein go, but she clearly doesn’t want to and so he just lets her stay in the backpack. 
Somehow – he didn’t know why – he sensed this was an auspicious moment. He straightened up. ‘Now,’ he announced to no-one in particular, ‘we are four.’

Well, it’s the boys from the Dwarf being together for the first time (kind of), isn’t it?

[clem]

wasn’t this Frankenstein male?

If so, I’m pretty sure that detail isn’t revealed in Part 1 so it shouldn’t be in this thread!

Well, it’s the boys from the Dwarf being together for the first time (kind of), isn’t it?

I got that, I just wonder whether it’s merely a strange meta reference or if there’ll be some payoff later in the book to do with the whole realities merging thing, or whatever it is exactly that’s going on. 

I’ve started listening to the audiobook and the voice Chris is doing for Byle is hilarious.

[tombow]

I felt a twinge of uncertainty on the first Rimmer/Lister scene where Rimmer thinks to himself about how gross Lister’s hair is – 6 years ago, the fantasy author Naomi Novik released her magical boarding school novel A Deadly Education, with a scene where a black girl is warned that she should cut her hair, because her dreadlocks are particularly suspectable to the magic lice in the castle. This quote caused such a furore on social media that Novik and the publishers eventually re-released the book with the quote removed, and Novik apologised on Twitter. 

I’m not black or an expert on racism, so I don’t really have a view on either scene, but it did give me a twinge of feeling grateful that 2019 era cancel-ready young fantasy fans probably won’t be reading Titan.

[Dave]

I think it’s quite in-character for Rimmer. Reminds me a bit of his rant about wheelchair ramps in Cured – would be unpleasant to hear from someone in real life, but makes sense given what we know of Rimmer’s personality. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Yeah Rimmer is a bit of a prick, and Lister is a slob. I don’t think pointing that out (even if it can be done in a racist way) is out of character of even disallowable

Lister’s ethnicity isn’t even mentioned in the book. I don’t think it’s mentioned in any book is it?

[Dax101]

I just noticed behind the red dwarf model photo you can see a large F on a board. Looks like that was what was used for the opening with lister painting the ship.

[Dax101]

Oops wrong thread. Ignore that previous post.

[Warbodog]

Not ready to read the thread yet, but may jot down what are sure to be unique comments as I go.

PROLOOG or however it was spelled

We’ve waited so long for a Red Dwarf book, did they really think kicking off with a chapter focusing entirely on unfamiliar, random characters is what we wanted? It’s like they read our minds, or at least our semi-jokey novelisations thread.

Titan being the furthest settlement means there would be no Miranda (Uranian moon) space bar in this universe or time frame. Absolutely fascinating!

The taxi fall is The Fifth Element, right?

As soon as the chimpanzee driver’s peaked cap was described and I got the PG Tips mental image, this became really inhumanely funny. Then it was revealed to be masturbating and became more a 15 certificate Tips and I LOL’d.

The worst part was the traditionally unremarkable Red Dwarf being called “famous,” but Different Universe. I hope I don’t need to keep consoling myself with that in every chapter and just bloody get used to it.

[clem]

Titan being the furthest settlement means there would be no Miranda (Uranian moon) space bar in this universe or time frame.

It’s also where Lister got Frankenstein in IWCD.

[Warbodog]

This would seem suitable as a first Red Dwarf experience so far, but I’m expecting that to change when it gets multiversey.

Chapter 1

Okay, that might be a few too many characters to have to remember if you were reading it fresh and didn’t just have to recall some of the more caricatured ones.

HOLLY as an acronym would be terrible, but having another unexplained acronym in there makes it good.

Chapter 2

If this was the bunkroom chapter, it was so enjoyable that I didn’t need to take nitpicky notes.

Chapter 3

How many of these quickfire worldbuilding gags are seeds being sown for later?

Tethering Lister and Rimmer together is a tad too contrived (and Farscape did it), but pretty much any alternative would be too.

Chapter 4

The second thing I disliked in the book was multiple HOLLYs. It’s more realistic than each ship’s computer having a totally independent personality, but it’s just less good. I suppose there could always have been multiple HOLLYs and multiple more advanced GORDONs, like all the Krytens and Hudzens… no, not having it.

Chapter 5

I didn’t need any more ship-based antics than that, I’m really looking forward to getting stuck into this hellhole.

[Podey]

Oh! I just remembered that I asked on here a while back if we think Holly is omnipresent (in terms of across Red Dwarf) and the overwhelming response was “no”, well it’s confirmed somewhere early on that *this* Holly is so nya! 

Also, no spoilers but something innocuous that Warbodog said above makes me think he will agree with something I said in the part 5 + epilogue thread…

[clem]

One of the art experts Petersen fights with is the Regis Professor of Lunar Art at ‘New Harvard’ on page 84, but ‘New Yale’ on page 85. That’s not a mistake is it.

Or maybe it is, as it’s corrected in the audiobook. Whereas this:

Pear (or ‘Peach’ as page 36 would have it)

isn’t.

[Warbodog]

Chapter 7

I’m not sure whether any of these are real geological features of Titan, but I remember Brian Cox saying the moon was dead brilliant on his programme.

This is more characterisation of Kochanski than Rob’s ever written before, so maybe it’s Andrew.

Chapter 8

There’s our Rob.

And the Mind-Tattoo seed is harvested, or at least watered for later.

Chapter 9

The disguise is presumably because the Big Cheese is someone we already know or are going to meet, and likely a foe from the future. I have absolutely no idea who, but I’ll wild-guess a bitter Future Self Rimmer at 100/1.

[Dax101]

The writing feels very Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers. And that’s good. But it doesn’t feel as committed to being a novel as Infinity did. A lot less character exploration through narration.

[Doomitron]

Lister’s ethnicity isn’t even mentioned in the book. I don’t think it’s mentioned in any book is it?

Titan does mention Lister has dreadlocks at the beginning of the book, so I think we can take it he’s still similar in appearance to Craig Charles. Oh I missed tombow’s post already pointing this out, whoops.

[tombow]

I feel like one of the complaints about Series 8 – that it implies that Lister actively sabotaged Rimmer’s studying – is referenced/improved, in that the novel makes clear that Rimmer is blaming Lister “just existing” on the fact that he just can’t get to grips with the subject.

[loadoftottnumb]

Sorry if I’m being ticker dan a tickets touts wad, but I’m listening to the audio book and can’t seem to work out where each ‘part’ starts and stops’ any help?

[Doomitron]

Sorry if I’m being ticker dan a tickets touts wad, but I’m listening to the audio book and can’t seem to work out where each ‘part’ starts and stops’ any help?

When you hear Chris suddenly speak Dutch and the chapter numbers reset that’s generally when a new part begins.

[si]

When you hear Chris suddenly speak Dutch and the chapter numbers reset that’s generally when a new part begins.

Google Translate told me that it’s Afrikaans. It suddenly occurred to me yesterday evening to actually type them out and check them, as opposed to just trying to guess.

[loadoftottnumb]

Ok assumed you were just joking but now I scroll ahead I see what you mean, thanks. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Sorry if I’m being ticker dan a tickets touts wad, but I’m listening to the audio book and can’t seem to work out where each ‘part’ starts and stops’ any help?

That chapter numbers restart 

So you have Waverlof chapter 1-31, then Wedergeborg chapter 1-23

though I do appreciate it is hard to keep track of the foreign language part names and the audio book trackers aren’t given chapter titles 

[loadoftottnumb]

Got it, thanks guys.

[Warbodog]

Google Translate told me that it’s Afrikaans. It suddenly occurred to me yesterday evening to actually type them out and check them, as opposed to just trying to guess.

There’s also a reference to Phobos (Mars moon) having a Neo-Gujarati (Indian-based) language, so it’s nicely multicultural solar system building, and a bit reminiscent of the independent Belt dialect in The Expanse.

[Warbodog]

Chapter 11

Carzon is getting annoying. Since Rob famously hates robot characters and no one can ever change their mind, I’ll blame Andrew for this.

Chapter 12

A maths whizz would believably choose a totally secure four-character password visibly written on her hand.

Chapters 13-14

This hadn’t felt like the novelisation of an unmaterialised TV show until it had to give Petersen, Pear & Byle something to do.

Chapter 15

Detective Kochanski feels nicely Incompetencey, but this was just her connecting some of the dots that we’d already seen without even knowing as much of the little that we know, so it felt a bit superfluous.

[Warbodog]

Chapter 16

I’d been wondering about how this scenario played out in the TV continuity, and how TV Lister knew who Frankenstein’s kitten daddy was. While it was presumably a more gentle and compassionate snatching there, seeing the alpha male around and making an assumption makes sense.

The dimensional shenanigans should be what makes this prequel-sequel more justified, but I was happy enough with it being a plain reboot without it, really.

Chapter 17

The golf antics sadly just remind of the orange dictator.

We need some random injury for the doctor to deal with. Want to gleefully take this bit, Rob?

Chapter 18

My favourite bit for a while for the banter, and the split universes are nicely demonstrated, though that scene falls short of the Grant Naylor classics (an incredibly high bar).

Chapter 19

Lister in survival mode is a bit too much of a prick. But this is literally an immature Lister, I remind myself.

Chapter 20

They warned us in chapter 9. But despite reading all of Rob Grant’s books, I’d foolishly assumed the finger-feeding assignment would occur off-page. The various plots are stepping up a gear now, I like the pace.

[Rushy]

Not reading any comments above because I’m only a few chapters in, but I just wanted to say that I’m already tempted to call it the best book after Infinity. It’s clear that Grant absolutely thrives in the pre-accident era. I’m really enjoying the sense of forward momentum, it’s more concise and faster-paced than any of the original books. 

Some absolutely lovely new Red Dwarf crewmembers. 

I’m glad we’re still vaguely in book canon, with the callbacks to Lister’s Monopoly jaunt and time spent on Mimas. Hollister’s presence is an outlier, but I suspect Rob just forgot about Captain Kirk lol. 

My one very slight nitpick is that the banter between the old favourites is a bit, I dunno, Big Finish? It comes off as a conscious imitation, what someone thinks these people should generally sound like. 

Kudos to Andrew Marshall as well, and I hope he and Doug can maybe come to an agreement about more books, because this is lovely. 

[loadoftottnumb]

Ok I’ve just finished chapter 18 which feels like a good place to give a few thoughts. Really enjoying it so far, I loved the Honda gag for Rimmer and it would/will make a great visual gag. 

The mob boss guy is an interesting character, looking forward to more from him. Hollister appears to be the same character from the show more or less so maybe the name change was just to reduce the number of Franks and/or remind us it’s one universe to the side. 

Holly is perfectly written so far and making me laugh, I can buy the idea that there would be multiple Hollys. 

I’m not digging Carson as much as most people, he reminds me of Butler, a bit snug and irritating. 

Just as I was starting to think ‘come on, when will the plot really kick in for Rimsy and Listy’ it did. 

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

> I’m not digging Carson as much as most people, he reminds me of Butler, a bit snug and irritating

this is really interesting because I read him as David Ross Kryten, but Chris doing the audio book has this Butler-esque inflection to his voice

[loadoftottnumb]

I meant Smug obviously 

[Author]

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