Where next for Red Dwarf?

[MrTalman]

Long-time lurker but curious as to everyone’s thoughts as to where the ship flies post-Titan. 
FWIW I would love a special or two to round things off, but appreciate that’s feeling less probable in the current UK TV landscape, especially when it comes to coughing up money for sci-fi and the ideas Doug was having (I’m still morbidly curious at what u&Dave-level de-aging would have looked like considering convincing tech for that seems to have eluded Hollywood most of the time). 

I had mixed feelings on Titan as a book overall, but the one thing it did really sell me on is that there are fresh approaches to Red Dwarf and maybe a continuation of the traditional series isn’t the only way forward, leaving me strangely optimistic about the prospect that RD as an idea is going to stick around. The stuff that REALLY works in the book are all the new ideas and subversions of the traditional Dwarf formula. 

Would you like to see Andrew Marshall carry on the adventure post-Titan? Do you reckon Doug’s going to deliver his own book continuation? Stage show? Long awaited TikTok revival of the mobisodes…?

Topic

[Flap Jack]

Out of the Red

Never give up on the dream.

[MrTalman]

Avengers-level finale bringing both the Over to Bill and Red Dwarf universes together. 

[Podey]

I personally am at peace with no more TV Dwarf.

Their last outing was a high point of the Dave era, in terms of quality and the cast are all getting on… I wouldnt object to more, but it is the best “end” the show has had for some time. 

My feelings about Andrew Marshall continuing with ‘Titan’ have changed somewhat since it came out recently that he wasn’t particularly a fan of the show. If he had reams of future ideas from Rob to see to fruition then maybe, but I’m not sure it would feel right otherwise.

I’d love to see another book from Doug. It would also be interesting to see what the long-teased stage show might look like but I can’t see that happening with the age of the cast, now (touring, at least). 

[Dave]

In all seriousness, I think the most likely continuation at this point is a Doug novel that tells the story he was going to tell in his next special(s). I’d love to read that.

I don’t think a live-action continuation on TV is likely, although if the long-rumoured stage show did go ahead then I’d be first in line.

Other than that, I’d love to see more comics in which other creators could play with the characters and concepts of Red Dwarf, but I don’t know how likely that is.

Another novel by Andrew could be fun but I don’t know how interested he’d be in going solo on RD.

[Podey]

Bill and Red. 

Excellent. 

[Podey]

Double post. 

[MrTalman]

Dare I say it, I do genuinely believe the concept is strong enough to maybe go beyond the original creative team, which I didn’t really think a few months ago. 

The way Titan positioned things though, it made me re-evaluate what could be done with the basic concept and how well those characters worked outside of the traditional sitcom structure – I know we’d had books prior to this, but this feels like the first time it’s so dramatically divorced from anything on TV. In fact, the weakest bits for me were some of the gag writing which felt structured like ‘sitcom jokes’, but when it was developing the world and the characters, I got really excited in the possibilities and the fact I couldn’t really call where it was going for them. 

If Doug does decide to call it a day, I’d be really curious to see some writers and producers play with those characters and push them into new territory. 

[Asclepius]

My feelings about Andrew Marshall continuing with ‘Titan’ have changed somewhat since it came out recently that he wasn’t particularly a fan of the show. If he had reams of future ideas from Rob to see to fruition then maybe, but I’m not sure it would feel right otherwise.

Same. I did like the idea of him writing more but, as you say, if he’s Not A Fan, it might make it more difficult to get the right feel for the characters we’ve lived and breathed for 20/30 years.

[Asclepius]

Dare I say it, I do genuinely believe the concept is strong enough to maybe go beyond the original creative team, which I didn’t really think a few months ago. 
The way Titan positioned things though, it made me re-evaluate what could be done with the basic concept and how well those characters worked outside of the traditional sitcom structure – I know we’d had books prior to this, but this feels like the first time it’s so dramatically divorced from anything on TV. In fact, the weakest bits for me were some of the gag writing which felt structured like ‘sitcom jokes’, but when it was developing the world and the characters, I got really excited in the possibilities and the fact I couldn’t really call where it was going for them. 
If Doug does decide to call it a day, I’d be really curious to see some writers and producers play with those characters and push them into new territory. 

Same. With a good level of quality control (Doug as Exec Producer?!) a really good, tight, 6 part radio series would be amazing. We all know how well RD lends itself to audio. And using that format stops the limitations that are there visually now (budget, Robert’s issues with the mask, cast age generally etc.)

[cwickham]

I think there should be a series of maths puzzles and brainteasers using Red Dwarf-based scenarios.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

At this stage I am quite happy and content with nothing new. Anything we do get we will be incredibly lucky to have and whilst there are options, as each day goes by the likelihood of them coming to fruition are narrower. 

Having read Sin Bin Island recently, I’d welcome a Doug penned book as long as he can keep the same tone, sense of light heartedness and adventure. 

But I’d equally welcome more Doug penned anything and I’m looking forward to book two in the series 

[Dax101]

I think Andrew Marshall really trusted Rob Grant when it came to Red Dwarf. But would Andrew want to write Red Dwarf on his own? I’m going to assume that even if he was allowed to, he wouldn’t want to. As some have stated, he was more of a casual viewer. But he has also stated that he was worried about the fans’ wrath if they hated the book, because he felt he would get the blame if it weren’t good.

In terms of whats going to happen next… My predictions are that Doug will not give up any time soon on trying to get another Red Dwarf special off the ground. Will it happen? Doubtful, but who knows. Doug may right another book at some point. A lot of the concepts like an animated series, seemed to have gone with Rob Grant.

Stage show for the 40th? id say thats just as up in the air. The biggest issue is i don’t think Red Dwarf makes as much money as maybe it did in the 90s.

[Jenuall]

I did wonder if people would be rubbed the wrong way by Andrew’s comments in that video.

I took it much more as a comment on how a professional/creative in an industry sees things differently to how the consumers do in terms of being a “fan” of something. Him as a comedy writer saying he is an admirer of Dwarf is high praise in my opinion and not at all something to be seen as a slight.

[Warbodog]

Series X satisfied my desire for another series, The Promised Land satisfied my desire for a special, Titan mostly satisfied my desire for a novel but I’d like another Doug one, if he’s got one in him.

I don’t have desire for a stage show, but I’d welcome an audio run. Maybe that’d be best with Doug bringing in one or more co-writers, for some freshness and to avoid the usual strain.

[Podey]

I did wonder if people would be rubbed the wrong way by Andrew’s comments in that video.
I took it much more as a comment on how a professional/creative in an industry sees things differently to how the consumers do in terms of being a “fan” of something. Him as a comedy writer saying he is an admirer of Dwarf is high praise in my opinion and not at all something to be seen as a slight.

I didn’t see it as a slight at all, I just meant I’m less interested in reading a continuation from someone other than the original creators if they’re not passionate about the universe and the characters. I have total respect for his role in bringing ‘Titan’ to life.

I’ve been comparing it to the Partridge revival in my head; that came back because the Gibbons brothers approached them with fresh ideas and they had been fans of the previous iterations. Something like that makes more sense to me than Marshall continuing ‘Titan’ solo.

[International Debris]

Doug will pursue the next special or two until he’s run out of places to ask – which will probably be sooner rather than later – and if Sky or ITV don’t cough up the money in the next year or two, it’ll probably be too late for Bobby to agree to come back. We’re already in the longest gap between episodes since the VIII-BtE one.

I’d be very up for a radio series; I’m not sure Doug would. While I’m not going to make broad, sweeping assumptions based on very little, I get the feeling radio wouldn’t be enough for Doug these days. The Dave era was far more cinematic in style than the BBC one, and Doug seemed very passionate about that; I’m not sure the limitations required for a radio version would appeal to him. I’d love to be proved wrong, but I genuinely don’t see him wanting to write a very dialogue-heavy, non-visual version of the show at this point. 

A novel? That would probably give him the opportunity to write something more epic than radio and even TV would allow, and it’s something he’s been working on with Sin Bin Island, so I can picture him choosing the format if the TV specials don’t happen. 

Whichever format, I’d be happy for it to come along, but it would feel like a bonus at this point. I’m satisfied with where it ended, I’m satisfied with the extraordinary number of episodes we have, given that it’s a British sitcom. I’m happy to let it end. I don’t think it needs to be given to other people to work on. 

[Moonlight]

I think Red Dwarf should come back in the form of a bi-monthly curated basket of snacks.

[Technopeasant]

(Also unironically a nominee for the best Doug jokes thread)

[Podey]

Has there ever even been an example of a scripted show going from TV to radio and not the other way around? That sounds absolutely bonkers a suggestion to me. 

[tombow]

I had a friend at uni who was sure the show couldn’t end until “Lister finally gets to Fiji”

Has there ever even been an example of a scripted show going from TV to radio and not the other way around? That sounds absolutely bonkers a suggestion to me. 

Dr who in the wilderness years?

[JimReaper]

Has there ever even been an example of a scripted show going from TV to radio and not the other way around? That sounds absolutely bonkers a suggestion to me. 

Honestly, it happens all the time, especially in the UK with its long history of radio drama on the BBC. If all the avenues to get something on screen have been exhausted, producers often look to make an audio drama version – albeit acknowledging that budgets / exposure will be markedly less than that of a screen iteration.
As Tombow said, Doctor Who had a renaissance as an audio drama in the late 90s / early 2000s when it wasn’t on TV. What with the rise of podcasts there’s been a slew of recent TV shows – existing properties and new ones that didn’t make it to screen – getting made into shows for BBC Sounds or as ‘Audible Originals’. Even Spotify was commissioning stuff this way for a while. A thriller exec-produced by Jed Mercurio went down this line recently and turned out well.
From my own first hand experience, two fantasy shows I worked on at a big UK production house were originally taken on as TV projects only to be reworked for Audible when TV said no and Audible were commissioning new stuff.
So it definitely happens and a property like Red Dwarf with a big built-in fan base and well known stars would be very attractive to audio producers. Whether Doug wants to do it and / or feels it’s worth his time would be the big stumbling block.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

From everything you just said, it sounds like the only example currently mentioned, is Doctor Who. That was a TV show that was produced and aired, wasn’t renewed, and found new life in audio drama 

All the others, unless I’ve misunderstood, wanted to be TV shows but never made it to screen so became audio instead 

[Dave]

Hitchhikers is maybe the most closely fitting example of what Red Dwarf could do in terms of a continuation on radio, although obviously is a slightly different case given that it started on radio. It came back and had a whole new life on radio in the 2000s.

[Asclepius]

Has there ever even been an example of a scripted show going from TV to radio and not the other way around? That sounds absolutely bonkers a suggestion to me. 

Green Wing would be a recent, high-profile one. Much loved TV show that managed two series and a big cult status reappears about 10 (?) years later on audio. It was reasonably big news when it happened. 

[JimReaper]

From everything you just said, it sounds like the only example currently mentioned, is Doctor Who. That was a TV show that was produced and aired, wasn’t renewed, and found new life in audio drama 
All the others, unless I’ve misunderstood, wanted to be TV shows but never made it to screen so became audio instead 

Oh there’s a whole slew of existing shows that have gone back to audio. Big Finish, the folk who do Doctor Who, have made an industry out of reviving old Sci-Fi properties that way (some of which then got ‘proper’ BBC broadcasts) but  other examples like the Neverwhere continuation come to mind. Brand recognition is a big consideration for audio dramas, so being an existing property or having a big name attached like Jed Mercurio or Neil Gaiman (for the audio version of Sandman, before the allegations against him made his involvement in stuff toxic) were really attractive to Audible and other audio commissioners.
Whether it’s new or exiting properties, it is not at all a rare phenomenon to see TV shows become audio. It’s just one of the common commissioning routes people explore with an idea. I’m pretty sure I read about the Big Finish team seeking out a Red Dwarf licence at one point but GNP said no. Which I understand TBF. Audio dramas are made for low budgets and have limited audiences so they are often not a priority for creators, esspcially if they feel a TV version is still possible. I understand if Doug feels it’s not for him. But I’m pretty sure that he’d have a VERY good chance of being commissioned if he wanted to be. 

[Podey]

I remember there was also a Buffy The Vampire Slayer one a few years back. 

[Podey]

Has there ever even been an example of a scripted show going from TV to radio and not the other way around? That sounds absolutely bonkers a suggestion to me. 

Green Wing would be a recent, high-profile one. Much loved TV show that managed two series and a big cult status reappears about 10 (?) years later on audio. It was reasonably big news when it happened. 

News to me but then I never watched the show (same with Doctor Who).

[JimReaper]

I remember there was also a Buffy The Vampire Slayer one a few years back. 

Yeah, this was so big there were constant adverts for it running on YouTube / Spotify. New Red Dwarf audio stories would definitely create some noise / get noticed.

[Dave]

I’m pretty sure I read about the Big Finish team seeking out a Red Dwarf licence at one point but GNP said no. Which I understand TBF. Audio dramas are made for low budgets and have limited audiences so they are often not a priority for creators, esspcially if they feel a TV version is still possible. I understand if Doug feels it’s not for him. But I’m pretty sure that he’d have a VERY good chance of being commissioned if he wanted to be.

Yeah, I assume there is a possibility that having an audio version on the go actively works against the likelihood of a TV commission, because you have a competing version out there, so I can understand Doug not wanting to go down that route until the TV options are absolutely exhausted. 

[Jonathan Capps]

Pretty sure Eion Colfer was a fan of Hitchikers and his book was rubbish. After Titan, the only qualification Andrew needs from me is the desire to write more Red Dwarf.

[Asclepius]

I remember there was also a Buffy The Vampire Slayer one a few years back. 

Also The Prisoner, Space: 1999, and I’m sure others…

[Asclepius]

Pretty sure Eion Colfer was a fan of Hitchikers and his book was rubbish. After Titan, the only qualification Andrew needs from me is the desire to write more Red Dwarf.

I’m classing Colfer’s book alongside Last Human, then.
“I liked it when I was younger, but now older people are saying it was actually not good”.

I seem to remember one single paragraph in it that felt like it was trying-too-hard, but that everything else was fine or good. But, then again, I can’t remember anything at all about it right now.

[Flap Jack]

Yeah, I was going to say, as far as I’m concerned it’s a self-solving problem. If Andrew wants to make more (and not just for the money), then that is in itself proof that he’s invested enough in the series for the job. Rob trusted him as an equal partner in the writing of Titan, so I trust him too.

Right up until the moment he releases a shit novel, of course.

I still like the Eoin Colfer Hitchhiker’s for what it’s worth, but it’s still true that being a huge fan of something doesn’t necessarily make you best suited to write a follow up to it, and a lot of the time a non-fan is preferred. For Doctor Who all the showrunners of the modern era have been megafans, but the results haven’t exactly been consistent brilliance compared to the older eras where non-fans were at the reins. And a consistent pitfall is the weird obsession with continuity that only fan creators seem to have.

[clem]

I don’t think I’d really want an audio version of Red Dwarf unless it was a proper radio sitcom, recorded in front of an audience, so probably at the BBC. Have Big Finish, Audible etc. ever done something like that? I knew about the Green Wing revival but that show wasn’t an audience sitcom on TV either. 

[JimReaper]

I don’t think I’d really want an audio version of Red Dwarf unless it was a proper radio sitcom, recorded in front of an audience, so probably at the BBC. Have Big Finish, Audible etc. ever done something like that? I knew about the Green Wing revival but that show wasn’t an audience sitcom on TV either. 

Audible have done podcasts with live audiences so this is certainly possible. I think it’d just be about budgeting for a live audience and hiring the right facilities to record in.

[Turk Thrust]

I wouldn’t say it would be totally out of the question for Titan to lead on to an animation or some kind of adaptation at some point.

I’m not saying it’s likely, but plenty of novels get adapted and this would have the benefit of both the Red Dwarf brand and it being one of the few reboots that would have plenty of fans of the original behind it.

[MANI506]

Where now for man raised by Puffins?

would love a big coffee table book just about the movie/wilderness years 1999-2009

[Podey]

They’ve sort of been through that already in Rob’s initial desire to get an animated series commissioned. I believe it has been revealed that concept art was drawn up for such a pitch, to no avail. 

Perhaps ‘Titan’ performing well will generate slightly more interest but I honestly would be surprised. There’s was talk for years of making an ‘Ash Vs Evil Dead’ animated series to continue on from the live-action when that got cancelled but that never happened.

[Ridley]

Yeah, I assume there is a possibility that having an audio version on the go actively works against the likelihood of a TV commission, because you have a competing version out there, so I can understand Doug not wanting to go down that route until the TV options are absolutely exhausted. 

Wild speculation on my part but I’ve generally assumed Naylor didn’t have the time to QA an audio/other Red Dwarf stories. Or rather, it’s all well and good having Red Dwarf coming out of your buttski but you need to watch what you eatski.

[Rushy]

Also The Prisoner, Space: 1999, and I’m sure others…

I would count those more as “audio revivals”, seeing as how the creative team is completely different. I haven’t listened to Space: 1999, but the Prisoner was also a remake not a continuation. 

[applemask]

Jupiter.

[Ben Saunders]

Big Finish do a fuckton of stuff really. Their output is eyewatering. I think I saw them doing Blake’s 7 and Thunderbirds. 

[Professor Flibble]

I still want more TV Red Dwarf, I only recently read Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers for the first time so I don’t have the same kind of relationship with the novels others have, and while I loved Promised Land, I’d like at least another special or two to round the series off, with the intent to end the show (on what note, I have no idea). 

Doctor Who’s gone for the forseeable, no sign of Red Dwarf, yeah other than those, there’s not too much television I care about to quite the same degree so it’d be difficult.

[Dax101]

Well, Doug has said he has no intention of ending the show. Because tv show finals are often very disappointing. So it’s likely always going to be left open.

[Rushy]

I think I saw them doing Blake’s 7 

The Blake’s 7 range is legendary, especially the Liberator Chronicles. A lot of stuff there that I can’t imagine not being a part of the show anymore. 

[clem]

Doug has said he has no intention of ending the show. Because tv show finals are often very disappointing. So it’s likely always going to be left open.

Open in terms of not being a definitive conclusion, sure, but if there was to be any more Red Dwarf on TV, I’d hope Doug was mindful that it would almost certainly be the last ever, and do something fitting. Tbf I think The Promised Land serves pretty well as a final episode, much more so than Skipper.

[Professor Flibble]

It’d be a good place to end the show on, but there’s still more I want. Namely bringing back Hattie. 

[si]

As far as TV goes, I’m fine with The Promised Land being it. Let’s have Doug novelise the script.
Let’s face it, Bobby’s seventy years old, for Gods sake. It’s not good for 70 year-old men to be dressing up in rubber every night, even if elderly Conservatives say otherwise.

[Dax101]

 do something fitting. Tbf I think The Promised Land serves pretty well as a final episode, much more so than Skipper.

Personally i think Skipper is a better ending as it offers Rimmer the life he always wanted, and he refuses to take it and goes back to life with Cat, Lister and Kryten. It’s like offering the character an ending he wants, but he takes the ending he has.

While The Promised Land is concluding a plot point from series 1 in a more feature-length way, it doesn’t quite feel like it has any conclusive feel. 

[Professor Flibble]

Animated Red Dwarf would be good. Maybe not the Mobisodes again but would save Bobby needing to put the prosthetics on. 

[Author]

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