Which episode makes the best use of both Kryten and Holly together?

[Nick R]

There’s been discussion in the unpopular opinions thread about Holly’s role in the crew, and the different ways that Norman and Hattie’s versions of Holly were handled. But I have a slightly different question that might be worth its own thread.

The story goes that Holly was removed from the series largely because Kryten and Holly’s overlapping roles meant that Rob and Doug struggled to make good use of Holly.

So with that in mind: are there any episodes from III, IV, and V that contradict that, by proving that both characters could work well together? Are there any episodes that stand out as making great use of both characters, in both plot importance and joke delivery?

A good place to start is White Hole, since it’s generally thought of as Hattie’s big Holly showcase episode. But I don’t really think of it as much of a Kryten episode, even though he gets a few memorable moments (the “I’ve never seen one before…” loop and his insult in the fading timeline at the end).

Conversely, there are Kryten-focused episodes like The Last Day and Camille, but I don’t think Holly’s particularly prominent in them.

Back to Reality might be a good candidate, since Kryten gets a good arc, and even though Holly is absent from the scenes within the hallucination, she’s vital to saving everyone at the end.

So does anyone see a clear standout episode where both characters get used really well?

I’m concentrating on Hattie’s episodes there, because those are the episodes where Holly and Kryten were around together and led to Holly being written out. But we could also consider how well Kryten worked with Norman’s Holly in Kryten, Nanarchy, series VIII, and The Promised Land. (And, to a much lesser extent, Skipper.) But most of those are either cameos or series VIII (and Holly’s depiction there is one of the perennial criticisms of VIII), so pickings are slim.

It occurs to me that Kryten’s reintroduction to Holly in Nanarchy (“face, I suppose”) might be one of the most extensive dialogue exchanges the two characters directly have with each other in any Red Dwarf episode.

Topic

[Warbodog]

If Kryten hadn’t joined, Holly trolleys or equivalents presumably would have got more use in future episodes. He’s practically a robot already, just stick some arms on.

[Rushy]

You bubble-headed Bibby! 

Edit: in response to Quinn

[Doomitron]

I just assumed the science room they’re in for most of 11 and 12 is in a similar place to the officer’s quarters they inhabit beginning in 3, similarly white, glossy, and clean between them.

[Jenuall]

They blew up the previous science room with their neutron bomb juggling routine in Demons & Angels so obviously had to find somewhere new!

[Warbodog]

[Doomitron]

[Dax101]

It must be incredibly confusing for people to watch the first 7 series with the original model design which then switches to the extended series 8 CGI ship, to then go back to a more similar to the original design for BTE onwards. While in other countries they only have the first 3 remastered series with the extended CGI ship, which then shrinks to the original model for Series 4-5, extended CGI model for 8 and then back to similar original design.

[Ben Saunders]

The only thing that’s really fucked up is how it’s the old Dwarf model at the end of Nanarchy when in-universe it really should be the VIII one, they just obviously hadn’t made that yet.

[Warbodog]

It must be incredibly confusing for people to watch the first 7 series with the original model design which then switches to the extended series 8 CGI ship, to then go back to a more similar to the original design for BTE onwards.

This is just describing what happened.

[Rushy]

I wish we had at least one more story with the Back to Earth version of Red Dwarf. The set design was quite interesting

[Doomitron]

Only issue is the set design consisted of one room and a lot of greenscreen.

[Professor Flibble]

Yeah I have nostalgia for seeing the pictures of the Back to Earth bunkroom, but looking back, it’s a bit of an oddity. I like the set itself, in fact I think in a few ways it’s better than the Series X-XIII one, but it’s almost like a glimpse of a totally different era of the show.

[Moonlight]

Only issue is the set design consisted of one room and a lot of greenscreen.

Be fair. There was the elevator.

[Dax101]

I have always found the BTE Bunkroom a little dull and flat-looking. I think i prefer the red bunkroom from X onwards

[Professor Flibble]

I like the idea behind the red bunkroom matching the outside of the ship, but ultimately I’d rather they just recreated the Mel Bibby set. It’s the comfiest looking bunkroom to me.

 

[Doomitron]

I think it took me halfway through 12 to realize the bunkroom hadn’t changed since 10, I thought it’d been redesigned the entire time.

[Professor Flibble]

I think it took me halfway through 12 to realize the bunkroom hadn’t changed since 10, I thought it’d been redesigned the entire time.

Drastically different lighting, I guess. I’m half and half on how blue Series XI and XII are, sometimes I think it looks nice, sometimes I think it looks a bit much.

[Ben Saunders]

Only issue is the set design consisted of one room and a lot of greenscreen.

Be fair. There was the elevator.

And the forced perspective corridor!

The thing about BtE for me is all the computers look like big stickers have been stuck on. Which they might have been. I think it looks pretty excellent for the most part though, especially haven been made for sixpence.

I think it took me halfway through 12 to realize the bunkroom hadn’t changed since 10, I thought it’d been redesigned the entire time.

You mean it wasn’t?!

[Moonlight]

The bunkroom is noticeably redressed between X, XI and XII, with the XII version bleeding into XI a little with the final scene of Twentica.

[International Debris]

I think one of the big reasons the more modern tech in the Dave era jars so much is the gap. If the show had gradually evolved over the space of 30 years, it wouldn’t have been such an issue, but there’s basically one particular version of the show, then a gap, then a very different looking version that’s come along after a number of huge changes in technology, so they end up feeling totally at odds with each other.

[Doomitron]

I don’t mind the modern tech so much if only because Dave Red Dwarf just feels so much like a different show to me from the original where it would feel out of place, which already felt like different shows stitched together at times between seasons.

[Technopeasant]

but there’s basically one particular version of the show

With the possible exception of these flat screens.

[Warbodog]

VII & VIII already feel a bit different. The nanobots upgrade them from DOS to windows*.

* (Which Apple, Amiga etc. did before Microsoft).

[Moonlight]

(Which Apple, Amiga etc. did before Microsoft).

And Apple stole it from Xerox. It’s a long line of plagiarism back to Charles Babbage, who probably just ripped off the ancient Greeks anyway.

[Author]

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