Ben Saunders

[Ben Saunders]

What, immediately after?

[Ben Saunders]

Considering he decided to leave BEFORE Series VII and was only coaxed into doing a couple episodes with the prospect of Ed Bye returning, I’d say that’s completely accurate.

Also, I watched two episodes of The Strangerers and laughed maybe one and a half times.

[Ben Saunders]

Red Dwarf jumped the shark when they brought Rimmer back to life in Timeslides, only to kill him off again immediately. How can you play with someone’s life like that, for a cheap gag – imagine ending an episode with the death of a character. As a gag.. Like if someone fell out of an airlock. A woman, for example. Possibly named Irene.

It’s shocking, really.

[Ben Saunders]

It’s the tone of it as well – it’s not as good as it used to be, so kill it. Gloss over the fact that it’s still one of the most entertaining shows going, and is experiencing what is very nearly a renaissance. Fucking kill it. Now.

[Ben Saunders]

>If it’d been posted on here and not The Guardian, would the author still be called a cunt and told to fuck off?

You’d get that kind of response from this site if you started a thread with “I really like Red Dwarf”

[Ben Saunders]

I get really cheesed off when people spew the received wisdom that recent Doctor Who series’ have been shit, when it is an INDISPUTABLE FACT OF LIFE that Series 8 is the best series of New Who and the recent finale was fabulous.

Other opinions are available.

And also WRONG.

[Ben Saunders]

The problem with that article is that there isn’t an original thought in it, it’s superfluous and unnecessary, and it makes false claims.

“Wobbly staging” – as with Classic Doctor Who, the sets probably wobbled a grand total of two times
“Seemingly exposed as the straight man… drought of comic invention…” – contentious
“Navel-gazing that strove for poignancy but palled into dullness” – debatable
“It killed the franchise for a decade” – it didn’t
“Utter smegging ineptitude” – unfair
The writer – a cunt

[Ben Saunders]

I can’t believe I forgot to list the one time it actually DID jump the shark – Emohawk

So many things I read on that page upset me – “a drought of comic invention”, “navel-gazing… palled into dullness”, “it killed the franchise for a decade”, “utter smegging ineptitude”, someone praising Lemons and someone shitting on Doctor Who.

[my three comments would be one if the edit button worked, apologies]

[Ben Saunders]

I thought for a moment that claiming Red Dwarf was “running” in the 00s is a bit rich, but then I realised I fully accept the idea that Doctor Who has been “running” since 1963, despite both of them being off-air for a decade at a time.

[Ben Saunders]

I hope not, I love the wrong number punchline

[Ben Saunders]

I -genuinely- feel like I’ve read this article before. Not deja vu, not reading a -similar- article, but -this- article.

[Ben Saunders]

I love received wisdom.

Red Dwarf jumped the shark with Backwards. Then it jumped the shark with Polymorph. Then it jumped the shark with Dimension Jump. Then it jumped the shark with Tikka to Ride. Then it jumped the shark with Ouroboros. Then it jumped the shark with Back in the Red. Then it jumped the shark with Krytie TV. Then it jumped the shark with Only the Good…. Then it jumped the shark with Back to Earth. Then it jumped the shark with Lemons. Then it jumped the shark with Kyrsis.

[Ben Saunders]

Doug said something along the lines of “it’s not [really] Red Dwarf”, yes, but I doubt he writes it off completely – he seems very aware of fan reception and takes their criticisms on board, but it’s not like BtE was utterly incoherent, devastatingly shite trash. But then, people can’t “like” or “dislike” things anymore, they have to be the greatest or the worst shit of all time

[Ben Saunders]

When Back to Earth: Part One was broadcast, me, my brothers and my dad were in the middle of tearing my room/wardrobes/carpet apart and refurbishing my entire bedroom. We stopped to watch Back to Earth on a tiny grey television sitting atop a table on a naked wooden floor covered in splinters and nails. I enjoyed it, but the lack of audience laughter took a while to adjust to, and ironing sneezes, while mildly amusing, wasn’t a strong enough gag to open with after a decade long absence.

Good times.

[Ben Saunders]

I can’t wait until I reach Series VIII in my re-watch and either begin to agree with you people, or largely enjoy my experience and come here to call you all cunts

[Ben Saunders]

He stole a Mexican boy’s teeth and is haunted with regret, what’s not to get?

[Ben Saunders]

Having just heard it again after Polymorph, it isn’t THAT bad once you’re used to it – it’s the transition from Parallel Universe to Backwards that is really jarring and makes it sound pants

[Ben Saunders]

I’d totally buy that “servicing the song”, “more feel” shtick if it wasn’t, you know, a bit shit

[Ben Saunders]

Proof Red Dwarf isn’t set in our universe: This IS the universe where Ringo was a really good drummer

[Ben Saunders]

Die, die, senator

[Ben Saunders]

Yeah, some of them I was listening to and I was thinking hold on… IS this stereo? So it might have been the fake stereo version you’re talking about. I seriously cannot be bothered going into that much detail with its list, I’m sick of hearing “goldfish shoals, nibbling at my [slightly awkwardly too long pause) thoes” already.

[Ben Saunders]

>Yes it is. It’s music concrete.
I’ll fight you.

I’m all for non-musical sound art, but not on a Beatles album, not by John Lennon, and definitely not Revolution #9.

The White Album is great. Paul has some fantastic moments on it, Savoy Truffle is good. While My Guitar Gently Weeps. A couple tracks could be cut from it and it wouldn’t suffer, admittedly, but then there would be less Beatles songs – and THAT is a universe I don’t want to live in.

DON’T PASS ME BY DON’T MAKE ME CRY DON’T MAKE ME BLUE

[Ben Saunders]

Helter Skelter was just Paul McCartney trying to be as loud as he possibly could.

He read an interview with either The Who or The Rolling Stones where they said “we’re the loudest band on the planet”, and Sir Paul thought “Oh yeah? Fuck off, I can do one better.”

And he did.

Iirc it was originally a 20-minute jam session, heavily edited down to the little ditty it is today. It also fades out, and then back in again, features John Lennon farting (rather endearingly) on the bass, and Ringo genuinely being in pain when he screams about the blisters on his fingers at the end.

I have a Beatles-denier friend who gets really upset when I say Helter Skelter was proto-metal, but it sort of was. He likes to think Black Sabbath just shat metal out of their arses one day with no inspiration from anyone.

Helter Skelter is just some loud fun.

[Ben Saunders]

Alright, here’s the full list you smegheads. God knows why they kept switching between versions – ignorance?
Was the mix always in stereo, but TV was broadcast in mono before Series V?

ORIGINAL
Series I, Series II, Series IV (mono)
Holoship, Demons and Angels, Back to Reality (stereo)
Psirens, Rimmerworld, Out of Time (stereo)
Series VII, Series VIII (stereo)
Dave era (assumed; stereo also assumed)

ALTERNATE
Series III (mono)
The Inquisitor, Terrorform, Quarantine (stereo)
Legion, Emohawk (stereo)

[Ben Saunders]

>Personally I’m more likely to skip Helter Skelter
Heathen.
I bet you don’t like Tikka, or some equally abhorrent opinion.
Unbelievable.

[Ben Saunders]

Just doing Series VI.

Psirens – Original
Legion – Alternate
Gunmen – N/A
Emohawk – Alternate
Rimmerworld – Original
Outoftime – Original

I think the stereo mix sounds different on Out Of Time?? Aaaaa

[Ben Saunders]

Yeah I was immediately taken aback as well.

It gets more complicated, lads.

I was going to say “it sounds more spacious because it’s in stereo”, but in Series I and II, it ISN’T. It’s in stereo for Series VII, though. The same version/take of the song seems to be used in I, II and VII onwards, but in mono first, then stereo later.

It gets more complicated, lads.

Just checking Polymorph II, they use the shit series III take/version of the song – but now that’s in Stereo, too!

Am I going to have to listen to the credits of every episode to make some sort of list, or has somebody already done it for me?

The tambourine is loud as fuck in both stereo versions, it dominates the mix, I never liked that.

[Ben Saunders]

It isn’t music, though

[Ben Saunders]

I couldn’t take anything with Seth MacFarlane playing the lead role seriously enough to care about the plots, the exception being American Dad, mostly because I don’t need to look at his smug fucker of a face

[Ben Saunders]

I’ve listened to The White Album countless times, but always skip Revolution 9. It’s utter shite.

[Ben Saunders]

The End is very good and very funny, but the original assembly of The End was dire and depressing before they reshot large swathes of it. It ends up being one of the fastest paced episodes of Series I – after re-watching I and II recently, I’m stunned by how slow it all is, and how the laughs are fewer and further between (but still very strong)

[Ben Saunders]

I can say I’m guilty of watching the first episode of Back, Mitchell and Webb’s new sitcom, and denouncing it as mediocre and “to be forgotten”. I’ll watch the second episode but I don’t have much faith in it.

[Ben Saunders]

Alright, there is piano, it’s just quieter, and neither the piano nor the brass do many of their little fills/flairs, if any at all. Could just be a different take and they just threw in the tape that said RED DWARF CLOSING THEME if nobody remembers re-doing it, as the conspiracy states

[Ben Saunders]

Toxteth – that’s supposed to be the definition, I think, but many shows I’ve seen end up using the term “pilot” to just mean “the first episode” – Doug himself does this in the Remastered documentary, and both Chuck and Friends seem to be unable to make their mind up between calling the first episode “Pilot” or giving it a proper title.

Just checking, I always thought they called the first one “Chuck versus the Pilot”, but now apparently it’s called “Chuck versus the Intersect” or “Pilot”.

The first episode of Lost is called Pilot.

[Ben Saunders]

You mean it was Red Dwarf that started this stupid trend of avoiding the number 9?

[Ben Saunders]

Interesting thread though, thanks

[Ben Saunders]

Sheesh, people who can’t hear a difference between the two versions – there’s no piano, the bass is too loud and the vocal is different! Come on people!

[Ben Saunders]

>No Jane Leeves in Frasier
>No Malcolm in the Middle
Good God, what a horrible universe to live in

[Ben Saunders]

I’d happily trade the people of Stoke for another Series IV

[Ben Saunders]

That said, I don’t watch any other modern audience sitcoms, so maybe they’re all shite and look like arse

[Ben Saunders]

I guess I’ll just have to strongly disagree with you and wonder in the back if my mind if you’re slightly mad or not

[Ben Saunders]

I searched the first four pages of the forum vigorously, I honestly did. Thanks though

[Ben Saunders]

I like Lister winding Rimmer the fuck up, shoot me.

An 83 year old dad….

[Ben Saunders]

Nothing in any universe is worth trading for Kennedy assassinating himself, the opening and ending to Stoke, and BOTH CHEEKS MAN, sorry. It’s just too much of a gamble for something that -might- be good. Red Dwarf IS a British show – Americans aren’t really into the whole self-deprecating shtick quite as much as we are.

[Ben Saunders]

The idea of Grant Naylor hiring DeEmmony so they could push him around reminds me of the story that George Lucas pretty much directed Return of the Jedi, bossing Richard Marquand around, because he was seemingly unhappy with aspects of how The Empire Strikes Back went down. Similar to what they’re doing now with Star Wars/Disney films, really – firing directors who are too stubborn about “having a vision” and hiring newbies they can mould into their own autonomous directing machines.

[Ben Saunders]

Absolutely not, what the fuck?

[Ben Saunders]

The direction in X was pretty pedestrian for the most part, didn’t he just film as much as possible and then zoom it all in in the edit? I guess you can’t give people reading letters for 25 minutes much directorial flair. It would be annoying if anything.

[Ben Saunders]

Yeah, that one I think. Interesting that it’s a composite of two shots – that explains why it looks so SHIT

[Ben Saunders]

In that particular shot the perspective just makes Starbug look too big/Dwarf look too small.

Not to be a negative Nancy, but there was one model shot towards the end of Series XI, of Starbug flying into the Red Dwarf hangar bay, that looked dreadful – it was shot from a really weird angle we’d never seen before and either composited oddly or the perspective was strange.

Most of the rest of them were decent, though

[Ben Saunders]

That’s what I always thought, as well. Paying another outside director was probably financially unviable, especially for BtE. They can -probably- get away with paying Doug less for direction because he’s already on the writer/producer payroll, and maybe he’s willing to take a cut if it means the show will get made.

I don’t want to imply that I think I know anything about how much Doug is paid or how much another director would be, though, so it’s just speculation

Doug did a really good job on BtE and XI, in any case

[Author]

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