How long do you (realisticaly) want RD to run for?

[peepingsignal]

Since there’s another Series for the first time since last Millenium (If you don’t count those mini-series contraptions), I’d thought I’d ask a Question of Dwarf.

How many more series do you want from Red Dwarf? How much longer should the show go for before it retires and moves to Florida?

—

IMO, I think maybe three more series (including X), which would bring us up to XII. I think there would be a good time to wrap up the show, just incase the script quality goes a bit south (which, and let’s be honest here, has happened in the past). So the show doesn’t end on a low note…again. (I’m looking at you 8. You and your Prison-based vagina jokes.)

Also, the cast’s age is a factor, not nessisarily a huge factor if the writing takes account of this, but still a factor nonetheless. I mean, we can’t have a group of 70 year olds running around in deep space. (Or could we…)

So yeah, three series. Maybe four if it feels right.

Topic

[peepingsignal]

Just realised I mispelled realistically. I…I…sorry.

Same with the Vagina jokes bit, that wasn’t so bad. It was the Dinosaurs which were the lowpoint.

[JamesTC]

As long as Doug and the cast feel they can take it. I’d still be watching in 30 years if they feel they want to still be making it then. Bobby would only be 3 minutes in make-up to get the Kryten mask on by then.

[A Bailey]

“Also, the cast’s age is a factor, not nessisarily a huge factor if the writing takes account of this, but still a factor nonetheless. I mean, we can’t have a group of 70 year olds running around in deep space. (Or could we…)”

To be honest, if the writing was up to scratch (which is the main concern) that sounds bloody awesome. Last of the Summer Wine in space would definitely keep me entertained, and would really play up the “last human alive” point.

[Mr-Stabby]

I’ve never understood why age has mattered so much in TV. As long as it’s believable that these characters would be in this situation, and their age isn’t completely glossed over, there’s no reason why it couldn’t carry on. ‘Back to Earth’ did a great job of pointing out the fact that Lister had gotten quite a bit older.

Is it really that people are worried that the young’ns simply won’t watch a TV show with middle aged people in it?

[TheLeen]

There’s no way for me to answer the initial question, as no one knows if and when this stops being fun for how large a percetnage of watchers as well as crew. Errr…

[HelloMabel]

>I’ve never understood why age has mattered so much in TV. As long as it’s believable that these characters would be in this situation, and their age isn’t completely glossed over, there’s no reason why it couldn’t carry on. ‘Back to Earth’ did a great job of pointing out the fact that Lister had gotten quite a bit older.

I agree. I fully intend to be in my eighties watching Lister, Rimmer, Cat and Kryten in their nineties, driving each other crazy on Season whatever-it-is of Red Dwarf. Written by Doug in his triple-digit glory years.

I’m sure this comes as no surprise, but US tv has *much* more ageism than UK tv, we have nothing like Last of the Summer Wine, Waiting for God or even As Time Goes By. We had Golden Girls back in the 80s, but that’s about it.

[Pete Part Three]

>we have nothing like Last of the Summer Wine, Waiting for God or even As Time Goes By

Please. Help yourself.

[HelloMabel]

>Please. Help yourself.
Ha! Point taken. (: I just meant that around middle age, people tend to disappear, if you go by what you see on American tv. Unless they are also a racial minority, in which case they are (statistically) likely never seen in the first place. What a huge insult to our diversity.
/soapbox

[MANI506]

At least three more series. That seems like a good innings. So far the age of the cast hasn’t mattered a jot because each new series that has come has in some way or other freshened up the formula. Ever since series 2!

[Tarka Dal]

Age IS a factor, but it’s dependent really on where the overall story goes.

The majority of sitcoms operate within a bubble. Episodes that could occur in more or less any order. Adventures that by the end of that week’s adventure bounce the characters back to the status quo. Surely part of the reason Summer Wine was able to last so long was that it was always about old f*ckers sodding about in their retirement, the natural end point being death (which they sort of sidestepped by becoming a retirement home for old TV stars).

BlackAdder Goes Forth had it’s killswitch in going over the top, but before that the previous episodes could pretty much has swapped places.

With Dwarf the cast aren’t really held down by established tropes like jobs, relationships and so forth so can go off on small or even series long adventures like losing Starbug in VI, regenerating the original crew in VIII and then return to the ‘classic’ status quo of Lister the Last Human…

At some point though if the age of the actors really starts showing through then I’d prefer for that to become a reason for a shift in the status quo, instead of four guys in space, it’s four old duffers coping with the futility AND old-age.

Sounds hilarious I know, about as much fun as blowing up your crew in the first episode.

But to end this whimsy, I guess I mean the best shows evolve, the dramas become apart of the heritage and that’s a good thing. Apart from the last run of Only Fools it was all the better for Grandad’s passing, Raquel moving in, Rodney moving out and the birth of Del’s son. After all this time a sort of Red Dwarf re-birth is great for one, maybe two series, but after that it would need to start thinking of where it’s going next just as it did between II and III or from VI onwards.

[si]

> like losing Starbug in VI

Did they?! What the hell were they travelling in?

[Pete Part Three]

I’d love Red Dwarf to have been a perfect, consistently brilliant sitcom. A show where I don’t have to add an addendum when I declare my enthusiasm for it and declare that I don’t really care for anything made since Rob Grant left. After the disappointment of VII, I wanted VIII to put the show back on a decent level. But it ended up being one of the worst TV shows I’ve ever watched all the way through (I’ve never even watched it on DVD aside from with the commentary on).

After that, I wanted Red Dwarf to end. I don’t need the show to continue to keep my enthusiasm for the early years high. I’ll be watching my favourite episodes for many years to come, I’m sure.

With Back to Earth, they had great production values and the cast all looked fine. No one looked “past it”. But the comedy, the ideas…sigh.

I’d rather Red Dwarf just stopped, then continued being average. It’s nice that it’s no longer BAD like it was in 1999, but I don’t need them to keep pumping out episodes like The Simpsons just because there’s an audience who’ll always watch.

[Tarka Dal]

> Did they?! What the hell were they travelling in?

Have you not been reading #dwarffacts

(Bugger off. I’ve had a rubbish day!)

[si]

Sorry, Karl. ;) Your post was actually a very well-put little piece.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Perhaps they can write into the story that the boys from the Dwarf are actually all half timelord and can regenerate. There wuld be no reason this show should end before 2032….or maybe beyond!!

[Jonathan Capps]

> a very well-put little piece.

No matter how well he does it, you don’t want to know where he puts his ‘little piece’.

[pfm]

Part of me wants as much Dwarf as possible but, realistically, I reckon one more series after X (that would be XI…) then a special and/or movie to cap it off.

Then, of course, the reboot with Karen Gillan as Kochanski (lead character), Adrian Chiles as Holly, Frankie Cocozza as Lister, Lenora Crichlow as Cat, Russell Tovey as Kryten, Chris Morris as Hollister and Benedict Cumberbatch as Rimmer.

God…Christ Morris aside, what a load of lazy and predictable choices…*goes back to sleep*

[Carlito]

How many more times do we think Corrie will let Craig take this much time off to work on Dwarf while he’s still part of the soap? Surely we’ve been very lucky that he’s been allowed to go off and make BTE and now a full series. This surely can’t become an annual thing?

[JamesTC]

They’ve been very good about it up to now. It almost seems like the showrunners of Corrie are fans of Red Dwarf…

But I don’t see why Corrie wouldn’t give him the time off so long as they are given sufficient advance notice (as they were with X) to change any stories they may have had planned (or create stories to fit).

[Jonathan Capps]

Well, there’s been a three year gap between him taking an extended holiday for BtE and X, so I think the realistic hope would be for XI to follow the same pattern.

[ChrisM]

Three years? Dear me, has it been that long?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you’re right. It’s just time seems to slip past so fast nowadays.

[Jonathan Capps]

WHEN DID I GROW OLD?!

[JamesTC]

CURSE YOU GOD FOR MAKING ME THIS WAY

[Jonathan Capps]

CURSE YOU GOD FOR MAKING ME WEAR THIS JUMPER THIS WAY

[Jonathan Capps]

Actually, speaking of series XI there’s something that we’ve all failed to mention in the last two weeks and that’s Doug’s usual “if series XI is commissioned” patter before the recording has changed to “when Dave commission series XI”. Which is nice.

[Pete Part Three]

>It almost seems like the showrunners of Corrie are fans of Red Dwarf…

Phil Collinson still doing his bit for UK Sci-fi.

[si]

Maybe there’ll do something *really* special for the 25th Anniversary, and then leave it on a high.

Or maybe they’ll go on forever. Or both. Or neither. Or something inbetween.

Just thought I’d put that out there.

[Jonathan Capps]

I think si’s called it, I fully expect one of those things to happen.

[ori-STUDFARM]

It’s the Red Dwarf movie Craig’s currently filming. I know it’s true….Craig himself told the bloke who works at the Anchor Hotel….And it don’t come any truer than that.

[jmc2000]

I’d love for it to last forever. Let the current cast do it until they retire and then (after a respectful period) reboot with a new cast.

I love franchises that are big enough to get lost in, where you can argue about the relative merits of this versus that till the cows come home. Star Trek is a good example. Marvel and DC comics are attractive because they tell and retell the same stories a hundred different ways. And Doctor Who is fantastic for franchise-building because of the regeneration device, which lets them refresh the cast without needing to reboot (I really love the fact that it’s all one long story about the same character).

[hummingbird]

I’d be happy for everyone concerned to go on doing it until they’re thoroughly sick of it … or until it’s not funny anymore, whichever comes first.
I don’t find the cast ageing to be a problem, I’d rather have an old cast than a new cast. If you completely re-cast, or even replaced the cast one by one, you’d inevitably have a change in the dynamic and it would be a different show.

[Tarka Dal]

Thinking about it, I think my ideal situation would have been for Rob and Doug to wind up the series have a gap and then have co-written a few RD movies whilst doing other things. I would have enjoyed the Star Trek parallel. It’s a massive shame we never got the movie.

[HelloMabel]

>I don’t find the cast ageing to be a problem, I’d rather have an old cast than a new cast. If you completely re-cast, or even replaced the cast one by one, you’d inevitably have a change in the dynamic and it would be a different show.

Yeah, I have to agree. RD TNG would be a completely different show and I would prefer the original to last as long as possible.

[anniescribe]

I wouldn’t want a new cast – at least not until the old cast has all agreed they’re done with it someday, or possibly dead. I know that Trekkies and Whovians have bitched about spinoffs and reboots for decades while much of the TOS cast is still around – and then almost always gotten a cast that most ended up liking, grudgingly or no – but there’s some quality to Red Dwarf I can’t quite put my finger on that makes it *different*. (Again, I understand this is the argument put forth by the fans of the aforementioned shows, as well – I can only give my opinion.)

BUT – if we get a new cast, I want an all-new cast. I don’t want any of the originals (or even Bobby, because I know one of you wiseacres is going to point out he wasn’t the first Kryten) mixed in. I wouldn’t necessarily be against a cameo from one of the old actors playing a completely new character, however.

As for how long I’d watch it? My chief criterion for reading a book, all other things being equal, is “a good story well told.” I say the same here; as long as the writing is up to snuff and the cast is enthusiastic, let ’em play.

[Tarka Dal]

I guess the major difference is that Red Dwarf is for the most part a one man show, shows like Who and Trek have become more like fables passed between generations.

[Carlito]

Well considering we’re talking about a show that depicts a three million year return voyage to Earth, it’s not outside the realms of possibility that eventually, somehow, Red Dwarf becomes a generational ship and we could pick up with its inhabitants a few hundred years down the line. The offspring of Lister and Kochanski… maybe even Cat too…. Kryten could still be around (decrepit and senile, perhaps, or even as we know him now, played by Bobby or by somebody completely different)… it could be a small core of characters as now, or maybe even have become a fully crewed ship once more after generations of breeding…

In fact, a kind of hybrid between Red Dwarf and Colony, I guess, could be a rather amusing sitcom, set a couple of hundred years after the death of Lister and Cat. But that would mean a rather depressing end to the bleak journey and unfulfilled ambitions of our original central characters.

[ori-STUDFARM]

>….or maybe even have become a fully crewed ship once more after generations of breeding….

Wouldn’t that be generations of INbreeding? Perhaps they can all have genetic mutations due to the small gene pool.

[ChrisM]

>Wouldn’t that be generations of INbreeding? Perhaps they can all have genetic mutations due to the small gene pool.

Colony Spoiler:

That was pretty much a them in Colony. Not the mutations so much but inbreeding causing, well, stupidity.

[Carlito]

Yeah that was my point. There could be an amusing sitcom scenario in there, as long as they’re not simply ALL morons.

Didn’t Mike Judge do something similar in Idiocracy? I haven’t seen it yet, poor reviews have put me off. But I love Office Space so I wil get round to it eventuallly.

[ori-STUDFARM]

I think it is a concept used in Hollyoaks. But am not sure cause I don’t watch that shite….just read the calender. Every fucking year!

[locusceruleus]

If Back To Earth had been as bad as Series 8 I’d have been done with it, but personally (and I know this is a minority opinion to say the least) I thought BTE was the most interesting, ambitious and moving piece of comedy/drama I’d seen in many a year.

The thing with Dwarf is, it changes and goes through phases that divide the fanbase. While that’s frustrating in a lot of ways, it’s also what has stopped it becoming stagnant and formulaic like most sitcoms thus far (okay, the multiyear gaps between productions may have something to do with it).

Personally I’m quite tentative about RDX. Of course I don’t begrudge the audience who have had the pleasure of seeing the cast live their fun, but personally I loved much of Series 7 and reverting to the audience/stage format for Series 8 felt like a step back from the show’s natural evolution to me, and a concession to popular opinion. I don’t think for one second that if Doug hadn’t stuck to his guns with the more dramatic/cinematic aspects of 7 for series 8, that it wouldn’t have turned out better and more satisfying than it did. This discussion of juvenile/toilet humour and offensive aspects in the set reports also has me worried that we’re heading back to the dark days of Archie, ‘Boing’ and on-screen pube trimming. Of course this is all supposition on my part – I’m more than happy to be proven wrong and will be eagerly tuning in. I had little hope for BTE being anything special and was blown away. I’d just rather approach with caution I guess. I certainly don’t think every series should fit my personal tastes.

My one hope for RDX is that, in whatever small or large way, it somehow advances the overall story arc of Lister and his main goal that has been established since the very beginning. Other than that, I’ll take it as it comes.

When should Red Dwarf end? When it loses the power to surprise and investigate new territory.

[Carlito]

If Red Dwarf were judged by standard (network) American TV series episode numbers, it would only just be fairly early into its third season right now. If US shows can still find new ground for many years, with premises half as interesting and lacking in boundaries as Dwarf, I think it’s fair to say that – story-wise – there should theoretically be lots of stones unturned yet.

If Dwarf USA had been a hit and run for six years, or even more, they would have produced at least twice as many episodes as our own Dwarf has at this point. I’m assuming, simply based on the length of contracts involved in US shows (and I believe mentioned by some of the British cast as a reason they didn’t get involved… five years sounds familiar?) that Rob, Doug and the US creative team felt confident they could come up with at least 120 plots for the crew.

If so, in UK Dwarfdom, we may have only just scratched the surface.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Actually, I was thinking a bit more on this topic the other day whilst watching The Clone Wars. I reckon, if the TV show ever came to an end, I wouldn’t mind seeing an animated reboot. It wouldn’t have to look as good as Clone wars. Even if a real cheap Captain Pugwash style of animation was used, I think I’d enjoy it.

[Tarka Dal]

I think that’s wildly optimistic tbh. UK and US sitcoms work completely different. For starters the majority of US shows have writing teams, Dwarf tried that it seems to have been decided that it didn’t work.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Maybe. Writing teams were used for the Red Dwarf USA pilot and, from the accounts I’ve heard/read, the best script by a mile was the overnight re-write that Rob and Doug did alone. They said the writing team were good with oneliners, but not for working on the script as a whole…

[ori-STUDFARM]

….although, in fairness, they didn’t write it from scratch. there were elements of the previous scripts that they kept in.

[Jo]

> Also, the cast’s age is a factor, not nessisarily a huge factor if the writing takes account of this, but still a factor nonetheless.

I’ve never understood why people say this, the characters aren’t frozen in time, Lister and Cat will age, Rimmer is a hologram and so can look any way he/Doug chooses – so why when BtE came out were so many people commenting on how the actors have aged? No shit! What did you expect after 10 years?! Craig especially has matured into an excellent actor, can you imagine series 1 Craig handing those dramatic scenes in BtE? *shudders*

As for the idea of a reboot… no, just no.

[redhead85]

> Craig especially has matured into an excellent actor, can you imagine series 1 Craig handing those dramatic scenes in BtE? *shudders*

We re-watched series 1 recently. Bloody hell, the boy shouts/overacts most of his lines bless ‘im ^__^

[Mr-Stabby]

Not just his improvement from Series 1 until now, look how much better he was in ‘The End’ compared to the original pilot recording.

Just listen to how he performs the ‘You’ll just go in there and flunk again’ speech in the pilot. His delivery is so forced, it’s unbelievable. You cannot so much see the cogs turning as be deafened by the sound of them.

That graveyard scene in BtE shows just how much hes matured as an actor since those days. Bloody fantastic proper legit actor now luvvies!

[A Bailey]

>>Wouldn’t that be generations of INbreeding? Perhaps they can all have genetic mutations due to the small gene pool.

>Colony Spoiler:

>That was pretty much a them in Colony. Not the mutations so much but inbreeding causing, well, stupidity.

The entire cat race managed to survive and prosper based off the offspring of one animal, so anything is possible!

[Author]

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