Information about new series from a cast member who's probably wrong, pt #87249

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  • #230307

    cwickham

    So, has anyone else noticed that Robert Llewellyn’s changed his Twitter bio to read “soon to be in Red Dwarf XIII”?

    https://twitter.com/bobbyllew

    #230312

    International Debris

    Given that Bobby is normally so tight-lipped and responsible when it comes to this sort of thing, I think we can take that as Official Confirmation.

    #230317

    Pete Part Three

    Quick, everyone ask him when tickets are available!

    #230325

    Flap Jack

    I think we can take that as a statement of high probability, not certainty.

    Or maybe he’ll try to cover himself by adding an extra line that says “P.S. ‘Red Dwarf XIII’ is my pet name for your mum.”

    #230348

    flanl3

    Well that’s racist, rude to short people, and a lot of women.

    #230520

    Stephen Abootman

    I met DJJ last weekend and asked if he thought they’d be back in the studio this year and he said they would (then told me to go and wind up Bobby about him being worried that filming dates would clash with Fully Charged ones).

    #230521

    Dax101

    I feel like at this point there is a very good likely chance that they could start filming by the end this year.

    Since Craig isn’t doing coronation street currently it certainly helps.

    I feel like either way XIII is happening.

    #230526

    Katydid

    I want Series XIII to address the flaws of XI/XII in the way XI/XII did for X.

    #230527

    bloodteller

    interesting that it’s just XIII and not XIII/XIV- presumably that means there’s already been a decision made somewhere to not record another block of 12 episodes, and instead go back to doing 6?

    #230532

    Dax101

    That may be the better option this time. although maybe not because if Doug has 18 new storylines you know they may end up being fit into the 6 episodes

    #230533

    Stephen Abootman

    Certainly the impression given from one of the documentaries was that filming 12 episodes in pretty much one go was not something that anyone involved was particularly keen to repeat.

    #230534

    Hamish

    > I want Series XIII to address the flaws of XI/XII in the way XI/XII did for X.

    I still prefer X as a whole, so I guess what I want from XIII is to like it more than X I guess.

    #230535

    si

    I feel like at this point there is a very good likely chance that they could start filming by the end this year.

    Meta Back To Earth sequel which sees the crew arrive at a Red Dwarf convention.

    #230536

    bloodteller

    >I still prefer X as a whole, so I guess what I want from XIII is to like it more than X I guess.

    yeah, i also preferred X over XI/XII. so i’m hoping XIII will be as good as X, if not better

    #230537

    Plastic Percy

    Back to Earth II: Reg Wharf Day.

    #230538

    Hamish

    Due to cast unavailability, they instead just followed around four of the most convincing cosplayers.

    #230539

    PFMC84

    According to a user on Reddit, Norman appeared at a comedy festival last week and said that he had been invited back for the next series.

    #230542

    Dax101

    I had guessed a good while ago that Normal probably would be back as a regular now since Norman decided he wanted to be part of the show again.

    I dunno how i feel about Norman coming back since it will probably be more pressure to give him screentime to make his return to the show worth it and Doug is already trying to split episodes into sections while speed running to the finish.

    #230546

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Certainly the impression given from one of the documentaries was that filming 12 episodes in pretty much one go was not something that anyone involved was particularly keen to repeat.

    Didn’t the XII doc end with Doug and Kerry saying that it was a great idea because they’d really hit their stride by the end?

    #230547

    Katydid

    >yeah, i also preferred X over XI/XII. so i’m hoping XIII will be as good as X, if not better

    If we’re just talking about Trojan, Fathers and Suns, and Lemons, X is extremely solid even despite the set backs. However, Entangled is a fantastic first half followed by a very shakey second half, Dear Dave is, well, Dear Dave, and even though I really love The Beginning dramatically I think it’s clear that the overall humor suffers from being such an early draft and the pacing is abnormally slow because of the restriction to just those core sets.

    While there are definitely things I prefer about Series X to Series XI, I find XI as a whole to be more rewatchable. While Series XI definitely makes up for X’s slower pace and restricted scope, I feel like it’s missing out on having a slower, smaller scale ship-based episode. XII makes up for that with Mechocracy, but then what I really want to see is something more along the tonal lines of Dear Dave but not a rushed mess. I want to have that Series II-style episode in there somewhere.

    My ideal Series XIII would try to split more evenly between low key character-based stories and high-concept adventures. I really love that we’ve been able to get more ensemble adventure episodes out of the latest series, but I’m really yearning for episodes more in the vein of the first four series than with Series V and VI.

    It’s a bit difficult when you want a new series to have a little bit of everything that came before _and_ some completely new stuff while still maintaining a consistent identity within the scope of just six episodes.

    #230548

    Katydid

    I’m actually optimistic about the return of Holly. Skipper proved that not only can Doug write us a Holly much closer to that of the first two series, but that he can actually direct Norman to give a performance in that vein. Doug seemed totally unconcerned with how Red Dwarf actually worked when he was making Series VIII, but that really doesn’t seem to be the case any more.

    I have some actual confidence that Holly can be used appropriately in Series XIII, especially in any more low key ship-based episodes we will hopefully get. Holly would be the actual ship’s computer again, and unlike Series VIII not just a disembodied voice fighting for screen time with a dozen other characters while being unable to do anything beyond contribute one-liners.

    Plus, it’ll give us a configuration of the main cast that we’ve never had before. Which is cool.

    #230550

    cwickham

    Series XII’s ordering was quite odd – we had three episodes that were all almost entirely off-ship (including one ENTIRELY off-ship), then three that were predominantly on-ship (including one ENTIRELY on-ship).

    #230551

    International Debris

    If I could wish for any particular ‘kind’ of show for XIII, it would be something like the second half of XII, i.e. mostly ship-based character stuff with some pretty strong sci-fi ideas, rather than full-on adventure stuff. M-Corp and Skipper managed to use sci-fi scenarios and some very strange ideas without it being ‘Starbug encounters another craft with a potential enemy on board’.

    If I could shape XI and XII into a six-part series, it’d probably be:
    Give & Take
    Officer Rimmer
    M-Corp
    Mechocracy
    Krysis
    Skipper

    Which probably gives an idea of the sort of series I’d want. Basically IV, I think.

    #230553

    Dax101

    >and unlike Series VIII not just a disembodied voice fighting for screen time with a dozen other characters while being unable to do anything beyond contribute one-liners.

    Given the circumstances i ain’t sure about that.

    Doug claimed holly was written out of series 6 because they felt bad that they never had anything for hattie to do. although perhaps that was more aimed at difficulty inwriting for hatties holly in general but if thats suddenly changed now is doug perhaps being overconfident in his ability? is series 8 an example of what happens when you have a story that doesn’t require holly but still feel like you need to include him?

    Skipper worked because it required holly and gave norman his moment to shine, but not every episode is gonna have that scenario.

    #230554

    cwickham

    I think Doug decided to write the mothership back in at the end of VII, and that necessitated Holly’s return – Dave Dwarf is the only Dwarf set on the mothership where Holly *isn’t* a regular cast member, and that’s only because of that unpleasantness before Back to Earth started filming.

    #230555

    cwickham

    And, of course, Holly has bugger all to do in VIII again even though Hattie was written out because she no longer had anything to do – but Holly’s screentime in VIII is impacted even more because of the resurrection of the crew, and now Hollister is more or less a regular plus the semi-regulars like Kill Crazy and Baxter. But as per the VIII scriptbook, Doug only got the idea to resurrect the crew during the editing of VII, i.e. AFTER he’d brought back Norman…

    I wonder when Doug first knew Chris decided he’d come back for VIII? When “Nanarchy” was first filmed, might he have been planning a VIII where the only regulars were Lister, Kryten, Cat, Kochanski and Holly?

    #230556

    Katydid

    >Skipper worked because it required holly and gave norman his moment to shine, but not every episode is gonna have that scenario.

    That’s true, but then that’s always been true. Even Series II doesn’t have something important for Holly to do in every episode. As long as he serves a plot-relevant function a few times, he can just hang around and contribute to the comedy the rest of the time. In Series VIII he could barely even do the latter with all the extra characters.

    And there’s always the possibility that Doug’s written a very Holly-centric episode to make proper use of Norman, which would be a really neat thing to have.

    #230557

    bloodteller

    >And there’s always the possibility that Doug’s written a very Holly-centric episode to make proper use of Norman, which would be a really neat thing to have.

    problem is, how do you write a holly-centric episode? there aren’t that many episodes you could really do focused around a head on a screen, surely. Queeg and Cassandra do it fairly well, but outside of those i’m not sure if a holly episode would really work.

    #230560

    Dax101

    Ah you could write a story where Holly has some problem which creates problems for the crew or the ship. but i don’t want Doug to feel pressured to have to find an idea for a holly episode.

    Then again i do think the Cat history lesson in Sansara could easily have worked coming from holly… which i dunno if its a good thing or a bad thing.

    #230561

    Adam Bailey

    Despite the fact that she is turned off for half of it U consider White Hole a Holly centric episode.

    I want them to bring back the Holly log entry/distress call openings.

    #230563

    Dax101

    Well that is a Holly has a problem and creates a problem for the crew and ship idea so i guess its already been done lol.

    #230564

    Katydid

    >I want them to bring back the Holly log entry/distress call openings

    I don’t think we need to spend a minute of precious runtime explaining the premise of a show that’s been on for 30 years.

    #230565

    Hamish

    Instead Holly will open each episode explaining how Officer Rimmer should have ended, which Rimmer is currently on board the ship, what really did happen to the chameleonic microbe, where the revived crew actually is, where the Enconium crew ended up, and if Chinese whispers is in fact racist.

    #230566

    Warbodog

    I’d still prefer Hattie for III-V vibes and some built-in gender balance that would actually be quite nice to have. But just for continuity’s sake, I have to concede that Norman makes more sense. By Red Dwarf’s admittedly quite low standards of making sense and caring about continuity.

    #230567

    Warbodog

    ^ I’m aware that I should probably get over Hattie Hayridge not having been in Red Dwarf for over a quarter of a century. When’s Rob Grant coming back though?

    #230568

    Katydid

    I would wager that Rob wouldn’t want to co-write unless he could be as involved in the production as he used to be, and that it’s the latter part he doesn’t want to put up with.

    #230569

    bloodteller

    > I’m aware that I should probably get over Hattie Hayridge not having been in Red Dwarf for over a quarter of a century.

    she was in Beat The Geek only 12 years ago. but then maybe Beat The Geek doesn’t count, i don’t know.

    #230570

    International Debris

    I’m sure that with the confidence he displayed in XI and XII, Doug can put together a cracking set of shows knowing he only has six to do, and utilise Holly well in that. Even in VIII he has really good moments when he’s actually being Holly, rather than just another character doing one-liners. The cell inspection joke is a series highlight.

    God, I wonder what VIII would have been like if they hadn’t brought the crew back.

    #230571

    Warbodog

    >she was in Beat The Geek only 12 years ago. but then maybe Beat The Geek doesn’t count, i don’t know.

    And Rob Grant was on the Bodysnatcher Collection 11 years ago. It’s nice that they’re keeping their respective exits and reprisals synchronised, at least. (I’ll ignore A Life in Lamé, because I’ve already been doing so since 2004).

    #230572

    bloodteller

    >Even in VIII he has really good moments when he’s actually being Holly, rather than just another character doing one-liners. The cell inspection joke is a series highlight.

    “A breakup is very much like a bereavement…it’s usually followed by a cremation and some sandwiches.” was quite good too. I thought most of the stuff Holly does get in VIII was quite good, to be honest. it’s just a shame he,’s barely in it. i don’t think he appears at all in Back In The Red-Part 2

    #230573

    Dax101

    Well its like looking at an episode like Siliconia and figuring out where holly could appear in the scenario of that episode.

    Is holly gonna get a little mini sketch at the start of the episode so norman can get his comedic moment to shine before the actual story begins? or is it gonna be a series 8 situation of holly appears to make jokes. or would doug try and find a way to fit holly in which could also end up feeling abit silly if it doesn’t organically fitt and its just Doug knowing he needs to find something.

    As for Rob Grant i feel like we are abit too far into the new era of Dwarf for Rob to just come back like nothing changed, but at the same time with all the nostalgia in Dave Dwarf there is nothing that would nostalgically beat getting Rob Grant back to Co-Write.

    #230574

    cwickham

    I’m now imagining a version of Siliconia where Holly was also Krytenified…

    #230575

    cwickham

    Holly *is* in Back in the Red Part 2, but his only contribution is the fake “reported prisoner sighting” – so he’s only a voiceover, rather than appearing in-vision.

    #230576

    International Debris

    I thought most of the stuff Holly does get in VIII was quite good, to be honest.

    It’s sometimes hard to see past nostrilomo / moon impression / theory of relativity / mime artists crap to get to the good jokes.
    After Back in the Red though he really does nothing, doesn’t he? I’m not sure any of his lines are remotely related to the plot. In Cassandra he has the Roverostomy joke; he has five lines in Krytie TV, of which only the breakup/bereavement line is memorable (‘what have you done with our Rimmer’ is a pretty half-arsed gag); he has ten lines in the whole of Pete combined (only three of which are in part 2, although admittedly that’s the wonderful ‘You’re finished / bye’ joke); six lines in Only the Good, five of which are the cell inspection / brylcreem interaction, which would all be great without the over-explanation of the brylcreem gag.

    21 lines in the last five episodes of the series combined, though, that’s fucking appalling. I don’t think I quite appreciated how underused he was in VIII until now.

    #230577

    Ben Saunders

    and here i thought Norman was just moaning as usual on the dvd, about not having much to do. but he sort of had a point.

    #230578

    bloodteller

    >21 lines in the last five episodes of the series combined, though, that’s fucking appalling. I don’t think I quite appreciated how underused he was in VIII until now.

    surely that should be the last four episodes? five in Krytie TV, ten in Pete and six in Only The Good makes 21, meaning you didn’t include any of the lines from Cassandra.

    i just skimmed through the script, he only gets 9 lines in Cassandra. so it actually adds up to 30 in the last five episodes of VIII, which is still pretty meager i suppose.

    #230579

    cwickham

    He has quite a few lines in the deleted scenes, doesn’t he? Although the only ones I can remember are the extended version of his scene in Cassandra and that fucking appalling joke about what happens in a mirror universe from Only the Good.

    #230580

    Dax101

    Well Doug said in the series 8 documentary that Norman didn’t want to do exposition, he just wanted to make jokes and for the most part i think he got his wish.

    Holly is a crucial part of the show but there should definitely be some boundaries to how Doug uses the character otherwise it may end up being very ego driven for Norman.

    #230581

    cwickham

    I think you can argue that Holly *isn’t* a crucial part of the show, given that 45% of the episodes don’t have Holly in them.

    #230582

    bloodteller

    >He has quite a few lines in the deleted scenes, doesn’t he? Although the only ones I can remember are the extended version of his scene in Cassandra and that fucking appalling joke about what happens in a mirror universe from Only the Good.

    if i recall correctly, those are the only Holly bits in the VIII deleted scenes. the joke from Only The Good about the mirror universe is especially strange because nobody even reacts to him saying this- he just spurts out a crap joke and everyone ignores him.

    #230583

    cwickham

    Were it not for his line about the Yellow Pages in Only the Good, Holly would disappear *completely* from the narrative before they even break out of the Tank. Wow.

    #230584

    Dax101

    >I think you can argue that Holly *isn’t* a crucial part of the show, given that 45% of the episodes don’t have Holly in them.

    Ok maybe crucial is the wrong word to use.

    #230585

    Katydid

    >Even in VIII he has really good moments when he’s actually being Holly, rather than just another character doing one-liners. The cell inspection joke is a series highlight.

    You notice all the good Holly moments in VIII are when he’s one-on-one with Lister, actually providing information that only he can access.

    #230589

    Ben Saunders

    i like the moon gag

    #230596

    International Debris

    surely that should be the last four episodes?

    Alright Mr. “Look at Me I Can Count”

    You notice all the good Holly moments in VIII are when he’s one-on-one with Lister, actually providing information that only he can access.

    I really like “you’re finished / bye”, firstly because it actually feels like a classic-era Dwarf joke, and secondly because it means Rimmer’s screeching is actually a feed line rather than just a really tedious series of Rimmer screeches.

    But yeah, otherwise he works well with Lister in the cell and is pointless elsewhere.

    #230597

    Ben Saunders

    Earlier in the thread International Debris (I think) mentioned one VIII Holly gag he enjoyed but which I didn’t understand, and was too afraid to ask about. By the time I worked up the courage to ask what the heck it meant I swear all reference to the joke had disappeared from this thread.

    I like the rat-arsed gag

    #230598

    bloodteller

    >I really like “you’re finished / bye”,

    yeah, i really liked that joke too. there’s some really good gags in the first few minutes of Pete Part 2, imo- “there’s an old cat saying which has particular relevance here….we are all…gonna die.” as well as kryten’s “strangely enough ma’am, i don’t have that information in my database” when kochanski asks him for exposition made me laugh a fair bit.

    #230599

    International Debris

    “strangely enough ma’am, i don’t have that information in my database”

    “Dinosaur bowel movement frequency tables”, an all-time great line Doug snuck into the worst episode.

    #230615

    Jonsmad

    If Holly is back on Dwarf full time for XIII, it will feel more complete to have him there for many viewers, and what’s strange about that fact is that we’ve never really had Norman, Craig, Chris, Danny and Robert together as the only core crew in a normal situational bunk room red dwarf ship setting ever in the previous twelve series.

    #230617

    Pete Part Three

    meh.

    #230619

    International Debris

    Am I right in thinking the only time Kryten and Norman’s Holly have ever interacted on screen is in Nanarchy?

    #230622

    PFMC84

    Correct.

    David Ross’s Kryten and Norman’s Holly appeared together in series II but I’m not sure if they even spoke to one another in the episode.

    I’m not sure if Kryten and Holly even speak to one another or reference each others existence at all in VIII for that matter.

    #230623

    cwickham

    They’re in the same scene in every VIII episode except Back In The Red Part Two and Cassandra, but the closest they actually get to interacting is on board the Manny Celeste in Pete Part One (although Kryten does mention him in BITR Part One).

    #230624

    Katydid

    >I like the rat-arsed gag

    I can’t get over how un-Dwarf it feels to have Starbug flying up a CGI rat’s asshole. That, and it’s just another pointless detour in a six minute sequence that plays out so much better when trimmed down to the tune of 2-3 minutes.

    #230625

    Ben Saunders

    I rewatcged Skipper last night and fucking hell Holly is funny in that, so I’m all for more of him. Do you think he’ll get another big round of applause for when he comes back in 13? Will he get one in every episode from people who are unaware he’s back?

    #230627

    Katydid

    I mean he’d probably walk out on the stage with everyone else at the beginning, and then the audience would flip shit because Holly has a body and flee the studio in a blind panic, trampling a skutter.

    #230628

    Dave

    The entire first episode of XIII will just be Holly saying “alright dudes?” and then riding the wave of applause for a further 26 minutes.

    #230633

    Ben Saunders

    Lol, I’d enjoy that. I do wonder how they’ll re-introduce him, though, if he’ll get a big Holly-plot or if they’ll just be like “oh Holly’s working again btw, alright mate, we’d love to chat and have a catch-up but we have to get on with the monster of the week plot, which btw it’s your cue to do the exposition on.

    Also Mac is back because we love him but none of the rest of the crew are and no attempt whatsoever is made to explain this.

    #230634

    Hamish

    > I can’t get over how un-Dwarf it feels to have Starbug flying up a CGI rat’s asshole.

    I get you, but considering I grew up with VIII already being a thing, I don’t really have the luxury of thinking that way.

    #230641

    Ben Saunders

    I was going to compare it with Lister’s space mumps exploding or something but honestly i cba. I’m in the same boat as Hamish.

    #230642

    Dax101

    Hey could be worse, it was originally meant to be Frankensteins butt Starbug flew into and lister was gonna make a holiest of all holes joke.

    Either ways somethings butt was gonna be penetrated.

    #230643

    bloodteller

    >I can’t get over how un-Dwarf it feels to have Starbug flying up a CGI rat’s asshole

    that seems a bit of an unfair statement. red dwarf is a show that’s rarely the same from season to season, so what exactly classes as Un-Dwarf? if you’re going to go down that road, then the posse driving about in Carbug down Coronation Street is “Un-Dwarf” as well, and the main characters doing a parody of the US presidential election in Mechocracy is “Un-Dwarf”.

    #230644

    bloodteller

    you could easily write off well over half of XII as being “Un-Dwarf” due to it being packed with incredibly strange stuff and bizarre attempts at social satire

    #230645

    Ben Saunders

    Rat-arsed is definitely a better gag than holiest of all holes.

    It being Frankenstein doesn’t make any sense because she is not registered crew or part of the ship’s original design, therefore the nanos would not resurrect her… but, following that logic, they wouldn’t resurrect some random rat, either. Or did the ‘bots resurrect all organic life found on the ship?

    Also why is there a rat on Red Dwarf? Did it escape from the science labs? It would have been identified as a non-human lifeform just like Frankie was.

    Just how much of the logistics of BitR is it possible to nitpick?

    #230646

    bloodteller

    >Also why is there a rat on Red Dwarf? Did it escape from the science labs? It would have been identified as a non-human lifeform just like Frankie was.

    in The End, Holly identifies a non-human lifeform on the ship but can’t pinpoint its location.

    therefore, if a rat escapes from the science lab then Holly doesn’t know- all he can ascertain is that the rat is still onboard the ship, and since lab rats are presumably registered animals there’s no need for him to alert the Captain about them

    #230647

    Pete Part Three

    I’m not sure what’s worse about “rat-arsed”; the idea, the shit CGI, Norm’s delivery of the line or the reaction of the studio audience. Were it not followed by another 220 minutes of absolute shite, it would stick out.

    >you could easily write off well over half of XII as being “Un-Dwarf” due to it being packed with incredibly strange stuff and bizarre attempts at social satire

    Good point. Let’s do that.

    #230648

    Me Own Stunts

    I personally don’t think it matters much if Holly doesn’t have many lines or direct involvement in the story. Others will disagree but for me what matters is the sense of this vast ship with Holly as an ever-present background ambience. Just having Holly there on background monitors reacting would be enough.

    #230649

    Me Own Stunts

    > I’m not sure what’s worse about “rat-arsed”; the idea, the shit CGI, Norm’s delivery of the line or the reaction of the studio audience.

    A little of each. For me I just don’t think “rat-arsed” is a very Holly-esque way of saying “drunk”. As with much of series 8 it doesn’t feel like the comedy is coming from the characters as it should; rather the characters are morphing around contrived scenarios that Doug deems to be hilarious.

    #230651

    Dax101

    The contrast between series 7 and 8 is quite surprising really since it went from a more comedy drama-ish approach to more spoofy by 8.

    #230656

    International Debris

    As with much of series 8 it doesn’t feel like the comedy is coming from the characters as it should; rather the characters are morphing around contrived scenarios that Doug deems to be hilarious.

    Yes, the rat-arsed line is very much ‘Holly tells a joke’, which just seems completely inappropriate for the scenario. Although the characters do occasionally tell jokes, most of the verbal humour tends to come from a more sarcastic / exaggerated way of speech rather than literally throwing in one-liners.

    #230783

    cwickham

    Danny has quit Death in Paradise, which he managed to do alongside X-XII just fine but may be significant in terms of filming dates for XIII onwards.

    #230784

    International Debris

    This obviously means they’ll be doing a new series every year let’s celebrate hurray

    #230785

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    The whole rehearse and shoot in a week is going to change I think. They are after all in their 70s now. I can’t even remember which way to put my pants on and I’m only 22.

    #230788

    International Debris

    They are after all in their 70s now.

    Eh? Danny’s at least 94, and Bobby can remember WWI.

    #230789

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Yes and Barrie was Napoleon’s Chief eunuch in the prequel to WW1.

    #230790

    Ben Saunders

    Bobby can remember WWI despite curiously only being 99 years old and therefore never actually having lived in it. His vivid and often distressingly graphic descriptions of the horrors “he” faced behind enemy lines are so believable, however, that most people just assume that he must have been there. Craig Charles on yhe other gand was stationed in Italy for six months in 1917.

    #230791

    Ben Saunders

    “on yhe other gand” is ye olde timey English for “moreover”

    #230802

    Warbodog

    They should of called it ‘Grey Dwarf!’ Ha ha natural ageing

    #230813

    Katydid

    They’re too old to play the characters now. Whatever that means.

    #230819

    International Debris

    In space nobody can see you age.

    #230820

    bloodteller

    Arnold Zimmer

    #230826

    Unrumble
    #230878

    Me Own Stunts

    Here you are: https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/3069/red_dwarf_series_13/

    Also discussed is the suggestion that they are doing series 13 rather than both 13 and 14 because they want to do a live show at the O2 in between. For an idea of what Red Dwarf will be like when overacted for the sake of a sycophantic, raucous audience, please refer to series VIII.

    #230881

    cwickham

    Is it fair to say the VIII audience are “sycophantic or raucous”? I imagine that any live audience sitcom seems funnier if you’re in the audience for it, and that that’s especially true of Red Dwarf.

    #230882

    Ianjk78

    Not true. There is only Norman in his early 70’s. The next oldest is Robert early 60’s, and Danny and Chris late 50’s, with Craig Charles not even mid 50’s yet so they can do a few more years yet

    #230884

    Dax101

    Well they can make the movie when Chris is 62 so thats not to bad.

    #230890

    Me Own Stunts

    > Is it fair to say the VIII audience are “sycophantic or raucous”? I imagine that any live audience sitcom seems funnier if you’re in the audience for it, and that that’s especially true of Red Dwarf.

    Yes, they are sycophantic and raucous in series VIII. This is compared to previous series of Red Dwarf, so it’s not a criticism of sitcom audiences more generally.

    The problem might lie with the direction. Compare it with what Andy De Emmony said about Emohawk: Polymorph 2 in the series VI documentary, when he was discussing how Dwayne and Ace’s entrances originally got ridiculously over the top reactions from the audience. De Emmony was concerned about how such a response would play to audiences at home, so he got the actors to retake their entrances until the audience reaction was more muted. This was the correct thing to do.

    For series VIII, it seems no such care was taken, and what you get is the audience delighted to be watching the show live, which is fair enough, but their response is far too raucous and this feeds into how the actors perform. The cast start overegging everything and making their performances too big for telly, and the whole thing plays like Bottom Live or some other show that’s intended for a large theatre audience rather than television cameras. You end up with something that was probably wonderful on the night, but is unwatchable in the format that it was being made for.

    #230898

    Ben Saunders

    The audience reaction never really bothered me with VIII, i feel it’s gotten worse in XI and XII. Performances, again, over the top in VIII but bother me more now. It’s a shame because BtE proves they are good actors who can understate things if they want.

    There ARE examples of pamtomimey acting in I-VI (jeep… sleep), but they are much fewer and father between.

    #230899

    Dax101

    I always assumed with series 8 that they really wanted to show how much the audiences loved it since at least 2 episodes end with hearing the audience applause which I am guessing was chosen decision to include it.

    #230908

    Pete Part Three

    The problem with weak material is that, when it’s retaken, the actor is informed by how it went down with the live audience and re-tailors their performance.

    I remember the recording of the crappy “moves” scene for Dear Dave. It started off pretty broad, and it just got broader with each take, because the audience seemed to love it. And it was shit to begin with.

    #230911

    clem

    The audience reaction in VIII is sweetened a bit, isn’t it? A while ago somebody here pointed out a certain laugh that crops up again and again.

    I watched M-Corp the other night and was irritated by the whooping at Cat dancing into the sleeping quarters. Or is that in Skipper? I watched that as well.

    #230921

    Dax101

    It seems like maybe because the cast are so aware of the shows popularity and because of the fans critical opinion on series 7,8 and BTE they don’t wanna risk undermining it, and so try to push to be funnier and often come across very broad.

    Craig has said in interviews in the past that the more serious you play it the funnier it is and i do agree with that.

    There are times when broad performances are fun to see but i think it needs to be well balanced in order to work.

    Danny’s performance in Can of Worms was very broad to the point that its probably the silliest the cat has ever been.

    #230923

    Ben Saunders

    Danny has a lot of extremely broad “yyeeeooowwwwww!!!” entrances in the Dave era, most followed by a round of applause. It’s like an episode of Two and a Half Men when the celebrity guest star appears. Or VI when Duane Dibbley appears, except numerous times per series.

    I’m probably overstating it and it’s only happened two or three times but it feels like half the time.

    Whether to play it straight or not depends entirely on the gag at hand. Some of Rimmer’s best moments are pretty heightened, I’d say, though few are over the top. Kryten as well gets away with a lot in that regard.

    I do get the feeling in the early series that Craig and Chris are attempting to one-up eachother, and that actually helps with the comedy, so I don’t quite get why now they all like each other and want to aid rather than upstage, it all feels broader. I wonder what an episode would look like if you gave them an audience who laughed, but not as raucously, and how it would affect their performances.

    #230926

    International Debris

    VII was written and filmed in such a different way that it undoubtedly affected their performances, which meant that by VIII, it was five years since they’d played to the audience. That combined with the lukewarm response to the more ‘serious’ aspects of VII, make it unsurprising that the performances in VIII were bigger and more cartoonish.

    #230927

    Darrell

    They say cockroaches will be the only ones left standing after a nuclear holocaust. I disagree – I think it will be arguments about how Red Dwarf VIII was too pantomime.

    #230928

    Pete Part Three

    There are arguments?

    #230931

    Dax101

    >I do get the feeling in the early series that Craig and Chris are attempting to one-up eachother, and that actually helps with the comedy, so I don’t quite get why now they all like each other and want to aid rather than upstage, it all feels broader. I wonder what an episode would look like if you gave them an audience who laughed, but not as raucously, and how it would affect their performances.

    Since they were young actors at the time maybe they were also trying to put more effort into their acting also while now days they are middle age and put more effort into trying to be youthful and funny.

    But then i think some of this is Doug also since if you look back at the early shows Rob and Doug used to be more strict on the levels of silly they put into the show and that may be slightly gone now.

    I feel a character like Ziggy would never have been in the early shows

    #230938

    bloodteller

    >I feel a character like Ziggy would never have been in the early shows

    yeah, Ziggy feels like a character that exists solely to take the piss out of certain groups (quite which ones i’m not sure- what were they going for here?) which i don’t think the show ever really did in I-VIII.

    #230940

    flanl3

    There ARE examples of pamtomimey acting in I-VI (jeep… sleep), but they are much fewer and father between.

    …your father is dad?

    #230949

    Ben Saunders

    Yeah I watched bits of that the other day, some with the sound off, and Craig is a bit wonky there. Stumbles over his lines multiple times in the observation dome. You -could- argue some bullshit that it makes the performance feel naturalistic and less rehearsed, but that’s only because you like it.

    #230996

    Katydid

    The audience reaction in VIII is sweetened a bit, isn’t it? A while ago somebody here pointed out a certain laugh that crops up again and again.

    That was me. And that laugh can be heard across VII, VIII and Remastered.

    And I swear I heard it in Bottom.

    #231039

    Taiwan Tony

    (SINGING) “I’m tyin’ my dog to the railroad track, choo choo train’s gonna break his back…”

    #231137

    Me Own Stunts

    > And I swear I heard it in Bottom.

    One Foot in the Grave too, I think.

    #231159

    Katydid

    Actually I’m hearing a lot of laughter in Bottom that sounds suspiciously like the clearly stock laughter used to sweeten VIII’s audience and help edit VII’s into proper shape to fit the show’s timing.

    Did they really only have like seven of these stock laughs? I swear throughout VII I hear the same couple laughs over and over, most notably that obnoxious “ha HA Ha ha”.

    #231163

    bloodteller

    seven stock laughs are cheaper than seventy stock laughs

    #231172

    Dax101

    I have always been confused about the remastered version of Bodyswap because the audience track is certainly not the same one as the original. so i wonder where it came from or where it was shown to get that version.

    #231187

    MANI506

    The original version of Bodyswap was sweetened because the toffee crisp deserved a bigger laugh and the remastered version is a closer representation of the genuine reaction. That’s how I’ve always seen it anyway.

    #231188

    Katydid

    It could have been a second take reaction. Either way it’s a change that’s annoyingly confusing.

    #231210

    Plastic Percy

    ‘Bodyswap’ was filmed without a studio audience to make it easier for the voice dubbing. Presumably that’s what made it easier for them to edit in a new laugh track for the remastered edition.

    #231211

    Dax101

    The laughter track is very toned down.

    #231276

    Katydid

    Was Bodyswap filmed entirely without an audience or was it just mostly VT?

    #231277

    bloodteller

    if i recall correctly, it’s entirely without an audience.

    #231294

    Warbodog

    Some of it was the first III filmed, I never knew what order they filmed the rest.

    #231299

    Plastic Percy

    Most of the location filming was done first – backwards Earth, various industrial Red Dwarf locations etc.- but the filming order in the studio was:

    Marooned (05.09.89)
    Timeslides (12.09.89)
    Backwards (19.09.89)
    Bodyswap (26.09.89)
    Polymorph (04.10.89)
    The Last Day (11.10.89)

    #231300

    Warbodog

    Thanks! Looks like that information’s on the official site where any Munchkin could find it. To make up for the laziness, here are the rest (up to X where TOS ends). Lots of things I never knew.

    I

    The End
    Recorded: 27.09.1987

    Balance of Power
    Recorded: 04.10.1987

    Waiting for God
    Recorded: 11.10.1987

    Future Echoes
    Recorded: 18.10.1987

    Confidence and Paranoia
    Recorded: 25.10.1987

    Me2
    Recorded: 01.11.1987

    II

    Better Than Life
    Recorded: 29.05.1988

    Thanks For The Memory
    Recorded: 05.06.1988

    Stasis Leak
    Recorded: 12.06.1988

    Kryten
    Recorded: 19.06.1988

    Parallel Universe
    Recorded: 26.06.1988

    Queeg
    Recorded: 03.07.1988
    (Norm’s final line made slightly tragic)

    IV

    Justice
    Recorded: 15.11.1990

    Dimension Jump
    Recorded: 22.11.1990

    Meltdown
    Recorded: 29.11.1990

    Camille
    Recorded: 6.12.1990

    White Hole
    Recorded: 13.12.1990

    DNA
    Recorded: 20.12.1990
    (Origin of the notion that Kryten still being human was supposed to be a cliffhanger?)

    V

    Demons and Angels
    Recorded: 01.11.1991

    The Inquisitor
    Recorded: 8.11.1991

    Holoship
    Recorded: 15.11.1991

    Terrorform
    Recorded: 22.11.1991

    Quarantine
    Recorded: 29.11.1991

    Back to Reality
    Recorded: 06.12.1991

    VI

    The same apart from Rimmerworld being recorded between Legion and Gunmen, so the Simulants returned before they appeared, obviously not the intended order

    VII

    No data

    VIII

    Back in the Red – Part 1 & 2
    Recorded: 28.09.1998

    Cassandra
    Recorded: 05.10.1998

    Pete – Part 1
    Recorded: 12.10.1998

    Only the Good…
    Recorded: 09.11.1998

    Krytie TV
    Recorded: 16.11.1998

    Pete – Part 2
    Recorded: 23.11.1998

    Back in the Red – Part 3
    Recorded: 30.11.1998

    X

    CORRECT ORDER

    #231312

    Dave

    Origin of the notion that Kryten still being human was supposed to be a cliffhanger?

    I think Man In The Rubber Mask discusses the idea that it wasn’t clear even to the cast whether Kryten would stay human from that point onwards or not, and it being a disappointment when Series V rolled around that he was going to have to don the mask again.

    Although that may have been exaggerated for comic effect.

    #231313

    International Debris

    VIII

    Bloody hell, I never knew that. What a nightmare.

    #231314

    Ben Saunders

    A Back in the Red Original Assembly and Pete Original Assembly might be interesting. But then it might not.

    #231315

    bloodteller

    You can see all the stuff shot for the hour-long edition of Back In The Red on VIII’s deleted scenes, if you’re interested. there’s some decent stuff in there that really shouldn’t have been cut out

    #231316

    bloodteller

    i suppose just viewing the individual scenes doesn’t really give an idea of how it originally would’ve all gone together though

    #231317

    Warbodog

    Out of all of them, I like the recording order of IV best. Justice is a good opener in the same way Give and Take wasn’t, but there’s the possible error of Kryten not having learned to lie yet. Meltdown coming before Camille works, since Kryten’s still Bodyswap-subservient to Rimmer and not able to disobey him yet.

    I’d swap the last two to end stronger and on a laugh with White Hole. DNA coming later than Dimension Jump might be confusing if you haven’t seen maskless Bobby yet, or it could be seen as a callback and tease for the series “cliffhanger”.

    #231328

    Pete Part Three

    I’m not the hugest fan of White Hole but it would be a great series finale.

    #231362

    Katydid

    ou can see all the stuff shot for the hour-long edition of Back In The Red on VIII’s deleted scenes, if you’re interested. there’s some decent stuff in there that really shouldn’t have been cut out

    The original non-salute version of Rimmer in the captain’s office opening Part 2 is so reserved and underplayed it’s hard to believe it’s Series VIII.

    #231364

    MANI506

    When I first saw that deleted scene (and the original ending to Only The Good…) I was pissed off that it wasn’t in the broadcast show, I think the scenes as broadcast do fit better tonally with the rest of VIII though.

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