New Book: Red Dwarf – Discovering The TV Series

[Dave]

Just stumbled across this listing for a book I hadn’t heard about until now.

Not sure whether I’ll pick it up or not – these reviews seem a bit mixed. But I’d be interested to hear from anyone who does.

Topic

[International Debris]

Glad the new page glitch is still here.

[Flap Jack]

Finally got around to finishing this. My verdict – pretty good! The ‘Making of’ sections were informative and detailed without being too long (and as far as I could tell they were free of unthinkingly repeated apocrypha, e.g. Craig Charles’ anecdote about Juliet May not knowing what “POV” means is referenced but treated with scepticism), and the episode review sections were broken up well. I liked the choice of things to track in each episode, like the major cultural references and influences, and the major points of continuity. And I am now more aware than ever of just how often Rimmer’s supposed non-corporeality is forgotten about; possibly more aware than I even want to be.

Some mistakes did slip in though. The ones I noticed were: Lister being quoted as saying “Rimmer’s dad’s just died” in Better Than Life, Better Than Life being referred to at one point as being in Series I rather than Series II (which to be fair just requires a single character to be missing), and the ‘Making of Series VI’ section saying that audiences didn’t see the original ending of Out of Time until the Series VI DVD came out, while the episode review section correctly acknowledges it was included on Smeg Ups first. Also there’s a pretty major error in the Series I-VI episode rankings in the Appendix, where The Beginning is bizarrely included instead of Future Echoes (???)

As an additional subjective quibble, Salinsky has this habit of sometimes noting supposed plot holes that are really just details that weren’t outright explained but can be inferred. One example is that he says it doesn’t make sense that Legion was able to upgrade Rimmer to hard light, given that his intelligence is just the intelligence of the 4 Dwarfers, and none of them could have done it (“Could Kryten have upgraded Arnie at any time and he just chose not to?” he concludes). But to any of us I think it’s clear enough that either hard light holograms were just one of the many advanced technologies that were available on the station – of which Legion himself is another – or that Legion invented it in a prior era when he had great scientific minds as a template. Obviously Rob and Doug weren’t suggesting that Legion invented hard light using Cat or Kryten’s intelligence – they only just got there!

Salinsky does also diverge from fan consensus for his opinions on quite a few episodes, which has feather-ruffling potential. So I thought, as he has conveniently provided numerical scores out of 5 for every bubble era episode, why not find out exactly how big these divergences are? WITH NUMBERS. (And the Coral Canvass.)

First, I doubled Tom’s scores so that they would be out of 10 and match up with the CC scale, then I rounded all of the CC averages to the nearest whole number (this seems fair to me, because Salinsky’s system forces him to round to half stars, so the Coral Canvass scores should be rounded in the same way). Using those numbers, these are the differences:

By this reckoning, Tom scored Series 1-VI episodes 1.31 out of 10 lower than the Coral Canvass on average, or 1.69 different in absolute values.

The biggest winners in this comparison were Bodyswap and Dimension Jump, which gained 2 points each compared to the rounded CC, from 7 to 9 and 8 to 10 respectively.

The biggest loser was Waiting for God, which went down 5 points from a 7 out of 10 to a 2. Ouch. Waiting for God is in fact the only episode Tom gives 1 star in this volume, but it is at least consistent with the CC in being placed as the worst bubble episode.

However, I did consider that this scale might not be the best to show the relative differences in score, due to the fact that as a result of it being averages of hundreds of people’s scores, only around half the scale in the Coral Canvass ends up being used, whereas Salinsky obviously has no qualms about rating the worst Red Dwarf at the bottom and the best at the top.

So for that reason, I also did a comparison which “normalised” the CC averages, so that Timewave is a 1 and Back to Reality is a 10, with the other episodes scored from 1-10 based on rounding to the nearest 9th of the difference between the lowest score and the highest.

For the sake of simplicity, and for hoping that for the love of Cloister Waiting for God won’t get the same score as Pete Part II, I have assumed that Salinsky will give at least 1 episode in Volume 2 a score of 0.5 stars, meaning the scale is still 1-10 rather than 2-10. If that turns out to be wrong, I’ll redo when the time comes.

This is the normalised result:

By this reckoning, Tom only scored the episodes 1.11 less than the CC on average, or 1.39 different in absolute terms.

The biggest winners here were Bodyswap (again) and Confidence & Paranoia, which were both scored 2 higher, with C&P going from a 6 to an 8. (Dimension Jump is now just 1 point higher.)

The biggest losers were Thanks for the Memory, Backwards, and Gunmen of the Apocalypse, which all scored 4 lower than the normalised CC. 8 down to 4 for the first 2, and 10 down to 6 for Gunmen. (Waiting for God is now just 3 points lower.)

All told Thanks for the Memory took a brutal and underserved kicking, as Tom also described it as the worst episode of Series II.

So, I hope this has given everyone all the information they need to
decide if they should turn up at Tom Salinsky’s house with pitchforks or
not.

Annoyingly, the book contains a full ranking which I originally did a comparison to as well, but then I realised that all the episodes with the same score are just listed alphabetically by title. Lame.

[Technopeasant]

I have never understood how anyone could rate the only episode that delves into cat culture so poorly. Sure, the novel does it better, but that’s true of virtually all of the worldbuilding in the show.

[Moonlight]

Waiting for God automatically goes up a full rank just for “double A, actually.”

[Rushy]

I have never understood how anyone could rate the only episode that delves into cat culture so poorly. Sure, the novel does it better, but that’s true of virtually all of the worldbuilding in the show.

The Cat culture described in that episode isn’t very interesting. It’s mostly just an amusing Douglas Adams style yarn. I know it gives Lister a moral dilemma to mull over, but isn’t it more compelling when he’s actually faced with the Cats in The Promised Land? 

I also prefer the little details in the film, like “the Feral King”, the fact that coolness is used almost as a rank (with Rodon being the coolest Cat there is, and therefore a self-proclaimed deity), the economy issues mentioned by Sister Peanut, the use of “dogs!” as an insult. It’s more believable than blue hats vs red hats, or the Cats mistaking Lister’s laundry list for coordinates. 

[Dax101]

I feel like it would only be more believable if you feel the cats were highly advanced species. Which I think the whole idea is they were a very primitive species figuring out life with whatever they could find around them. Trying to understand their own existence with very limited knowledge.

While by the time the Promise Land is set you could say they evolved more to become what they did. Even if its not really acknowledged as such. 

Personally i think Waiting for god works better because while you don’t see the cats, there is at least some unique lore given. its at least weird and creative. While The Promise Land is a little generic with the route it goes for the cats. They are basically just a society of Cat people under the rule of a Cat king? So if you remove a lot of weird stuff with the hats and laundry list, it starts to feel more Star Trek.

[Warbodog]

Sounds good, Flap Jack. Unofficial, opinionated episode guides are some of my favourite books to read whenever I have the chance (i.e. cheap second-hand or piracy), so it’s on my radar. I’m currently half-way through a Buffy one to keep up with a friend who’s going through the series, where the 90s author has a section in every single episode perving over what the teenagers are wearing, and passing on all possibly dubious trivia that I haven’t fact checked when it sounds funny (like that the company putting out the UK videotapes investigated whether one character’s notoriously dodgy Caribbean(?) accent might be a sound error in their copies and had to be informed that, no, it was actually supposed to sound like that).

[Dave]

All told Thanks for the Memory took a brutal and underserved kicking, as Tom also described it as the worst episode of Series II.

[Dave]

the company putting out the UK videotapes investigated whether one character’s notoriously dodgy Caribbean(?) accent might be a sound error in their copies and had to be informed that, no, it was actually supposed to sound like that

I always thought she sounded a bit Welsh.

[Moonlight]

Sounds good, Flap Jack. Unofficial, opinionated episode guides are some of my favourite books to read whenever I have the chance (i.e. cheap second-hand or piracy), so it’s on my radar. I’m currently half-way through a Buffy one to keep up with a friend who’s going through the series, where the 90s author has a section in every single episode perving over what the teenagers are wearing, and passing on all possibly dubious trivia that I haven’t fact checked when it sounds funny (like that the company putting out the UK videotapes investigated whether one character’s notoriously dodgy Caribbean(?) accent might be a sound error in their copies and had to be informed that, no, it was actually supposed to sound like that).

This is so much funnier than my generation’s Mew under the truck.

[Technopeasant]

It’s more believable than blue hats vs red hats, or the Cats mistaking Lister’s laundry list for coordinates. 

The conciet there is the Cats’ development was selected not by nature but an artificial environment, so every minor detail left them takes on untold significance. One of my favorite details from the novel was explicitly saying the Cats evolved bipedalism in order to get into the ship’s cargo containers. Full Circle in Doctor Who explored a similar idea.

[Asclepius]

It’s more believable than blue hats vs red hats, or the Cats mistaking Lister’s laundry list for coordinates. 

The conciet there is the Cats’ development was selected not by nature but an artificial environment, so every minor detail left them takes on untold significance. One of my favorite details from the novel was explicitly saying the Cats evolved bipedalism in order to get into the ship’s cargo containers. Full Circle in Doctor Who explored a similar idea.

The novels are *so* good at this aren’t they? The day the starvation falls on the cats. They come to pray at their metal tower and one cat – committing heresy – holds up the sacred object, ignores the screaming cats, places the object on one of the metal cans, turns it, and out pops the food.

So well written. The ‘voice of the narrators’ in the first two books is outstanding, tbh. Not as funny as the TV show, but absolute classics.

[Warbodog]

[sleepey]

The release date for volume 2 has slipped a couple of times, now due at the end of November.

[Flap Jack]

Damn, they changed the cover.

Also, does it bother anyone else that the background star field makes it so there’s a star in between the two ‘I’s of “Volume II”, so it looks like an apostrophe?

[Dave]

VOLUME M

[Dave]

That’s a better cover though, for sure. The old Radio Times photoshoot is paying for itself.

[Warbodog]

Are you still Discovering the TV Series if you’re reading the second volume covering episodes 37-74 though? You’ve probably worked out what you’re watching by that point.

[Unrumble]

[Podey]

Did anyone else have the massive A2 poster of that image from Radio Times on their wall?

I forget where I got it from, I’ve been thinking it was free with the mag but maybe it was via BTL or official merch. Definitely one of my favourite promo shots.

[Warbodog]

Did anyone else have the massive A2 poster of that image from Radio Times on their wall?

Mark Gatiss’ “character” in Doctor Who Night (1999).

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

I did have that poster. It must have come from the Radio Times issue that week, right?

[MANI506]

I think I got mine at Domension Jump 97

[Flap Jack]

I like how Craig is doing a proto- “Too Weird For Words” face.

[Nick R]

Mark Gatiss’ “character” in Doctor Who Night (1999).

Wow, is that how Gatiss imagines the stereotypical Doctor Who/Red Dwarf fan? That’s not very nice. He’s obviously not someone with a very high opinion of SF fandom. :( Probably one of those people who laughs at the “wobbly sets” and “tinfoil monsters”.

[Warbodog]

Well, it’s an extreme and deranged “enthusiast” in the sketch, not a normal fan. Maybe based on his personal interactions as a fan or just a sub-League of Gentlemen monstrous creation.

A comment about some of the 80s Doctor actors in another sketch was more vicious (“any old fucker with an equity card”).

[Nick R]

I just watched that sketch, and the stuff with Walliams grabbing Davison’s thigh and putting his bum uncomfortably close to his face comes across a bit differently than it probably did a few years ago.

[International Debris]

Wow, is that how Gatiss imagines the stereotypical Doctor Who/Red Dwarf fan? That’s not very nice. He’s obviously not someone with a very high opinion of SF fandom. :( Probably one of those people who laughs at the “wobbly sets” and “tinfoil monsters”.

He wrote the P.R.O.B.E. series of Definitely Official DW spinoff straight-to-video films in the ’90s, so he’s as nerdy as the fanbase comes and, while I don’t think he’s created anything of any artistic value for an exceptionally long time now, I don’t believe he’s a nasty person. It’s definitely an exaggerated stereotype for comedic purposes and not an expression of his feelings on SF fandom.

[Ian Symes]

Mark Gatiss is a stereotypical sci-fi nerd. Any mocking is done with affection, generally speaking.

And the poster wasn’t given away with the Radio Times, it was merch. I got mine from HMV, I seem to recall. Produced by Slow Dazzle.

[Nick R]

Um, I was actually, er, attempting a sort of joke. My post was supposed to come across as a kind of mock-outrage about Gatiss’s opinion of fandom, pretending that I didn’t know that he’s a genuine fan of this stuff himself.

But it looks like I didn’t exaggerate it enough. Poe’s Law strikes again!

[Warbodog]

[Flap Jack]

I also thought Nick was being sarcastic (given how Mark Gatiss being a massive nerd is one of the key facts about him), but I wasn’t confident enough to intervene. I am weak.

[International Debris]

I was drunk when I wrote that reply.

[Technopeasant]

[Moonlight]

[Ridley]

[Podey]

[Ian Symes]

Not a million miles away from something Norman Lovett actually said once.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Not a million miles away from something Norman Lovett actually said once.

[Rushy]

 He wrote the P.R.O.B.E. series of Definitely Official DW spinoff straight-to-video films in the ’90s

The fact that just about everyone from those films went on to be legitimately involved with Doctor Who (or were already so) except for Bill Baggs will never fail to amuse me. 

[sleepey]

Been reading volume 2 over the weekend, it’s unsurprisingly a lot like volume 1. I’m noticing a lot more little mistakes though, and cries of plot hole that could easily be reasoned away. Not enough to sink it or anything, & I can understand putting more thought & rewatches into something like Gunmen than Pete, but that’s why it’s a published book & not just some blog post, you’re supposed to full-ass it.

The photo section is actually Red Dwarf-related this time, so that’s cool. Fans of lists will enjoy the section at the back which has a load of broadcast dates, home media releases, video games (missing the java phone game though), & a brief summary of every Smegazine comic.

G&T (specifically the Coral Canvass) is cited a couple of times as evidence that certain episodes are shit. However the author did not seek a second opinion before giving 4.5 stars to Officer Rimmer, putting it on par with Marooned & Queeg.

[Author]

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