Red Dwarf Radio Show on iTunes. Meh.

[Baz]

I see from the latest official site update that the red Dwarf radio shows are now available to download from iTunes as “twin CD” sets.

SO WHY CAN’T I BUY IT AS A SMEGGING TWIN CD SET THEN?

I don’t LIKE downloads. I want something physical in my hand (no sniggering from the back there). So what if it takes up space, so what if it might cost a little more. I’d like the option. If it was there I’d buy the things. As it it I’m just going to let it go the way of the mobile phone animations and not bother.

Sigh.

Topic

[Jonathan Capps]

My step dad has an unlocked iPhone and that seems to work great with any SIM you throw at it. That ups the cost of the phone to over ?300, mind.

I think the iPhone has been built for how the world will be in about 5 years time, as all connectivity has to be done through WiFi and that’s only really useful when you have hot spots everywhere, but we don’t at the moment. Mind you, there’s an absolute butt load of custom apps (from Apple and third parties) you can download to it, and one of them *must* enable 3G…

After using it, though, by far the worst thing about it is the absolute cluster fuck oh syncing the bastard. You *need* to use iTunes, but if you want to sync it with contacts or calendar events you have to use Microsoft Outlook or Address Book which just seems needlessly faffy (and, believe me, it fucking is) when they should really update iTunes to include all this stuff. This is just Apple being lazy cunts with their Windows support, I guess.

I don’t think I’d ever go as far to discourage someone from getting one, especially if they know what they’re talking about and what they’re buying which John clearly does.

[Phil]

Yeah, never underestimate the power of “just wanting to own something.” It outweighs logic something like 7/10 times.

I have no real inclination to get an iPhone, or any one of its competitors, but I do remember absolutely NEEDING an iPod when I was buying an MP3 player. Nothing else was even a possibility as far as I was concerned.

Was it because I did loads of research and decided for any rational reason that the iPod was for me?

Nah.

I just used one once and fell in love.

Sometimes that’s enough.

[John Hoare]

Yeah, 3G iPhones are coming next month, I believe. I couldn’t afford one until now anyway, but even if I could have done, I was going to wait until the 3G enabled ones came out.

But the reason I want one is fairly simple – the user interface. Yes, the phone looks gorgeous (and the screen is amazing – which is really important if I plan to use it for watching stuff on), but that’s not the main reason I’m getting it – it’s the interface that I fell in love with. The sheer fucking usability of the thing. And for me, that’s *worth* paying that much for the phone (and I think it’s well worth the money) – and the admittedly rather unfortunate business of putting up with the contract. Like my DS Lite, I just had a big smile on my face within a minute of picking it up, and not many things manage to do that!

I will, on your recommendation Seb, try and get a test drive on the two phones you mention before buying – indeed, I was probably going to do this anyway, as it’s a fair amount of cash. I doubt I’ll find them as lovely to use… but I’ll go into it with an open mind, and admit I was wrong if I prefer them.

[John Hoare]

Also: I do stress that I’m just talking about what’s right for me. I’m not advocating everybody gets an iPhone, if they don’t do everything you need them to do, or if you just don’t take to the user interface (or don’t see anything special about it compared to cheaper alternatives), or if you absolutely can’t stand using iTunes, or many other reasons. Apple’s design choices generally suit me very well… but they are design *choices*. For some people, those choices are the wrong ones, and they’re better off with something else – and that’s fine.

[Seb Patrick]

See, that’s what I would call the right attitude, and you’ve got your reasons, and that’s fine, and I wouldn’t want to try and persuade you to go for a different phone just because I don’t like iPhones. It just depends what you want out of it – the N95 and the HTC Touch Dual (or, if you’re on t-mobile, the MDA Touch Plus) are, in my view, the absolute pinnacle of smartphones in that price range (as in, ones you can get on a ?30-35 upwards contract – let’s not go into Nokia Communicators and all that stuff), running on great operating systems – Symbian and Windows Mobile respectively – and endlessly customisable with an almost neverending array of third-party apps. But maybe you’re not hugely bothered about having a smartphone (although, you mention video – another benefit of a Windows Mobile phone such as my HTC is that through downloading the right software, you can watch ANY video file. I’ve got DivX and XVid encoded AVIs, along with FLV files yanked off Youtube, and they all play perfectly off my 4GB microSD card. Also, emulation is rather great for Win Mobile/Pocket PC – ScummVM works better than I’ve seen it on any other handheld, especially with a touchscreen, and it can even play the CD/dialogue versions of Sam and Max and DOTT; plus I’ve got a Game Gear emulator!), and I can completely see why the iPhone appeals to you.

I just think it’s ludicrously expensive compared with every single one of its competitors – in both the smartphone and the “smart phone” (DYSWIDT) markets. And what I don’t like is the endless stream of crap turned out by Apple marketers and fanboys claiming that it’s the most wonderful thing ever – although I guess my endless stream of criticism is just as bad – when in fact, what it really is is a gorgeous-looking phone that lacks in a few features (either by not having them or doing them badly compared to competitors) and retails far above market value, but does have a cracking interface.

[Andrew]

Still, the iPhone IS brilliant, isn’t it… :-)

[Pete Part Three]

iWant it. I don’t know why. It’s purely a looks thing.

Mind you “Superficial” is my middle name.

[Andrew]

Should that be ShitSuperficialHeadBSCSSC?

[Somebody]

Don’t Apple legally have to sell the iPhone without a contract in France or somesuch?

[John Hoare]

I believe that’s true, yes.

The contract thing bugs me a lot, I have to admit. I really *do* think the iPhone is worth the money – and before anyone thinks I’m being an Apple-apologist on that one, bear in mind that I was complaining that cheap Dwarf DVDs devalue the product recently, or that I’m a staunch defender of Nintendo charging what they do for Virtual Console games because they make you realise that old games are *worth* something, not something to toss away after only playing once. For what you’re getting, it’s well worth the money for me.

BUT – for that money, it should be contract-free. It’s something I’m willing to put up with for the sake of everything else, but it’s irritating. I can understand why it would be a deal-breaker for some.

[Rosti]

See, this is the reason I refused to touch an Apple product whilst looking for an mp3 player – logically, I knew that the only iPods that did what I wanted were way above my budget and required iTunes (something I keep locked away on an old laptop for the times when it is useful), but I was worried that the form factor & interface combined would be too tempting. I’ve now got a Zen and adore it but my girlfriend left her two-year old Nano in arms reach and it really was quite nice. Which is to say, I can totally understand why people like Apple products in spite of various drawbacks.

Anyway, good to hear that the RDRS files are DRM-free. Might be tempted to crack out my old laptop and convince it to talk to the internets.

::Bonus edit content:: Isn’t (Brand)Cast a pretty standard way of referring to chunks of downloadable talky entertainment at this point? Certainly, it never occurred to me that the name might be an explicit jab at Apple rather than a neat shorthand. That’s neat as in tidy, obviously.
On the other hand, I did always enjoy Chris Moyles stressing that you could always use a ‘generic mp3 playback device’ to listen to their podcasts back when they were a shiny new feature.

[John Hoare]

http://www.macworld.com/article/133838/2008/06/iphone3g.html

3G we knew was coming, as was the App Store. GPS was hoped for, and got. But what was NOT expected was those price slashes! Again, not to say that the iPhone is suitable for everyone – there’s still plenty of deal-breakers if you care about certain things – but at that price, and with the new features, it’s become an even more attractive proposition for me.

I’m less concerned about the contract now. It’s still annoying you’re FORCED to have one – although I suspect they’ll release an unlocked version in the UK at SOME point, it’s just a question of when – but the price slashes make it less of an issue.

[Jonathan Capps]

I don’t suppose any of these extra features will be available to old iPhones as software upgrades will there?

[John Hoare]

Yes, I believe all the non-hardware features will available for old iPhones through a software update.

[Jonathan Capps]

Excellent. My underwhelmed step father might actually start to like his new iPhone after this.

[Andrew]

BBC One 8:30pm
My Underwhelmed Stepfather
Episode 4 – MyPhone or YourPhone?
Hilarious antics as the Underwhelmed Stepfather feels strong indifference to his new mobile phone. Meanwhile, Post-Adolescent Son gets into a fight over the ownership of an obscure copyright, and Teenage Daughter starts to wonder if menstruation is really worth the effort.
Repeated on Saturday (s)
Underwhelmed Stepfather’s Inappropriate Uncle follows on BBC Three

[Ian Symes]

Shame about Post-Adolescent Son getting arrested for possession of Class As.

[John Hoare]

BBC One 8:30pm
My Underwhelmed Stepfather
Episode 4 – MyPhone or YourPhone?
Hilarious antics as the Underwhelmed Stepfather feels strong indifference to his new mobile phone. Meanwhile, Post-Adolescent Son gets into a fight over the ownership of an obscure copyright, and Teenage Daughter starts to wonder if menstruation is really worth the effort.
Repeated on Saturday (s)
Underwhelmed Stepfather?s Inappropriate Uncle follows on BBC Three

I would genuinely take this over any BBC ONE pre-watershed sitcom since Brittas.

[Jonathan Capps]

Did you see My Underwhelmed Stepfather? – Spoilers!

[John Hoare]

http://www.apple.com/iphone/softwareupdate/

So yeah, a software update will be available for first-gen iPhones. The only two things that won’t be upgraded are the two hardware features – the 3G, and the GPS.

[John Hoare]

Blimey:

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/june#tue-10-o2

I’d still rather pay full price for the phone and do pay-as-you-go, rather than being tied to O2 and a contract, obviously. I’m also always slightly uncomfortable by highly-subsidised or free phones in any case, as is the current practice in the UK. I think you *should* pay for your phone – I think free or highly-subsidised phones devalue what handsets are worth, and makes people think of them as unimportant and disposable. Which – Apple, Nokia, or anything else – they shouldn’t be. They should be an important purchase – smartphones, at least.

Whatever. It’s a side-issue in any case, as I thought the pricing was fine before.

[peas_and_corn]

I’ve always bought my phones and done pre-pay. Though I can see how tying someone into a binding contract so the company owns their soul for two years would be attractive for the company.

I remember once my friend got a razr phone when they first came out under one of those contracts and was all chuffed at having the latest phone, and I just said “you know that in six months you’ll have an obsolete phone (in terms of ‘cutting edge technology’) and then you’ll be stuck with it for another one and a half years… right?”

She… didn’t like hearing that.

[Seb Patrick]

>I think you *should* pay for your phone – I think free or highly-subsidised phones devalue what handsets are worth, and makes people think of them as unimportant and disposable.

You do pay for it, though. The cost of it is part of the contract. That’s why, when your initial contract is up, you own the phone, even if you end the contract. I just see it as the same as getting a ?200-300 phone on credit, frankly. Nothing’s to stop you leaving and going to a different company – you just have to give the phone back if you haven’t finished paying for it…

[John Hoare]

Yeah, fair point, and maybe I just look at it in the wrong way. It’s just personally, I’d rather the emphasis was on the handsets, rather than the contract. But undoubtedly you still pay for it – whilst I haven’t worked out the deal on UK prices, in the US you actually end up paying *more* for the iPhone over two years even though the price for the actual phone has been halved, as the contract rates have gone up too.

I must admit though that the massive *initial* price reduction means that I’ll probably get a new iPhone on launch day (barring my miraculous but possible conversion to Windows Mobile, as I *will* check out those other two phones and report back).

Seb, can you point me towards which contract you’re on at the moment? I want to compare them to the O2 tarriffs. I pretty much guarantee that the O2 ones will be more expensive, as you’ll have been able to shop around for the best deal – although the unlimited data on the iPhone contracts is good, at any rate.

[Andrew]

> the unlimited data on the iPhone contracts is good

This, more than anything else beyond the joy of the device, is what appeals to me. But while I’m working from home, I doubt I’d use 15 quids’ worth of mobile net per month. (The price of my regular phone tariff being 15 quid, so I’d be paying twice as much to GET the extra stuff.)

[Seb Patrick]

>the unlimited data on the iPhone contracts is good, at any rate.

I get unlimited data on my T-Mobile contract – they let you whack it onto pretty much any contract for an extra ?7.50. AFAIK, O2 do something similar, so it’s not just something they’ve introduced for the iPhone…

[Seb Patrick]

Oh, and I just saw your question – I’m on T-Mobile Flext Web ‘n’ Walk. It’s ?32.50 a month, but that includes the ?7.50 for unlimited internet. The ?25 gets me ?90 of “credit” a month – which equates to either 900 texts, 450 minutes, or a combination of the two.

[Seb Patrick]

(but T-Mobile are slightly cheaper than O2, I think, largely because their coverage still isn’t quite as good. I would have gone for O2 if I’d been buying the Nokia N82 or N95, which was my original plan, but then I saw that T-Mobile had the HTC Touch Dual, and I wanted that, so that’s what I went for)

[John Hoare]

To be honest, I’m impressed O2’s contracts are OK! I expected to be… not screwed, exactly, but to be *considerably* more expensive than what you’re on.

But yes, unlimited data will be lovely. Browsing the web on the bus… it’s like the year 2000, or something.

[John Hoare]

Hmmm… pay-as-you-go iPhone. I had NO idea they were doing that! Looks like I’ll have a decision to make. I dunno… I always resisted getting a contract for a phone because I didn’t use it enough – but I definitely WILL use an iPhone, if only for the data. Hmmm. (Yes, that’s a complete U-turn on what I said before… but that unlimited data for a reasonable price has kinda swayed me.)

Right, I will now sod off and go and talk about Red Dwarf, or something.

[John Hoare]

Also: O2’s site is bloody awful. It told me I had an out-of-date browser when I haven’t, the fucking cunt. Not everybody uses IE or Firefox…

[peas_and_corn]

It needs to be more airy.

[John Hoare]

I am typing this on my new iPhone! And already, it’s become my favourite thing I own.

One point to bring up from earlier – I’ve had experience of using the Windows version of iTunes since this thread started… and I HATE it. As slow as FUCK. The Mac version works brilliantly, but no wonder people are slagging it off if they’ve only used the Windows version! Unforgivably shoddy of Apple to put it out in that state. It’s hardly going to encourage switchers.

[Ian Symes]

Did you get your iPhone on PAYG, John? Because if you’ve just spent in the region of ?350-?400 for a phone, I’m going to have to punch you in your stupid face.

[Pete Part Three]

The thing is I own a Macbook and I got a nano a few weeks ago (I didn’t purposely buy it, I was given it) but I still find it restrictive.

I’d much rather drag and drop in Windows Explorer on my desktop to my Creative Zen than use iTunes.

[John Hoare]

No, I went contract. Although frankly, it’s WORTH ?400, the amount I’ll use it. (Can’t believe how fast 3G web browsing is!) And with the contract, I may well end up paying the same amount as I would have with PAYG in the long run, depending on how much I end up using the actual phone – so I doubt it really makes much difference.

[Pete Part Three]

My contract is up now(ish). I was weighing the iPhone up against the Nokia Tube X-Press Music wotsit.

Comments, anyone?

[John Hoare]

I suspect if you’re not sure, you’d be best off trying them both out before buying.

[Phil]

Um:
http://www.ganymede.tv/forum/2008/11/spacemen-getting-pissed-on-dutch-lager

[pfm]

I’m posting this on my ipod touch 2nd gen which I love to bits. I’ve always liked iTunes as a player though my obsession with audio means I hardly buy anything from the store, it’s usually if my girlfriend wants to listen to the odd track by the fucking Script or someone. I’ve also bought various b-sides of the Chilis, Manics etc. that I don’t want to find on a physical release. They really need to get 320kbps together though then they might get more custom.

iPod touch ftw

[hummingbird]

Fuckin hate i-anything.
Wont buy ’em on principal.

Just sayin.

[John Hoare]

Intelligent and insightful criticism, there.

[hummingbird]

Yeah, well it was 2am and I was very drunk, thus accounting for the lack of elucidation.

[Author]

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