Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum What Rimmer's father used to say…

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  • #218666
    flanl3
    Participant

    …before all that unfortunate suicide business (Future Echoes), and yet his fathers dath in Better Than Life surprises him? I can’t be the first to notice this. Should I stop thinking about timelines and enjoy the show?

    #218667
    Lilly Queen
    Participant

    Yes, many people have noticed this before. I believe someone on the dwarfcast once made the point that it wasn’t said whether he succeeded in that unfortunate suicide business.

    #218668
    pendo86
    Participant

    Don’t forget, he passed away peacefully in his jeep.

    Red Dwarf never really cared for continuity. But perhaps in that letter, his mum was talking about Bongo, unbeknownst to Rimmer?

    I think Billie is right, the suicide might not have been successful.

    #218669
    Lilly Queen
    Participant

    Yes, ultimately it doesn’t really matter. But it also isn’t that difficult to fanwank a lot of these issues, if one is so inclined.

    #218670

    It’s almost as if they didn’t have Rimmer’s character history nailed in the first series.

    There’s obviously the failed suicide reading, but I actually imagine it as him either causing someone to commit suicide or not being able to deal well with the fact that someone did. It’s in reference to being able to “cope with anything”. It’s a stretch, but that ties in better than the version of his dad we know attempting suicide, which I just can’t see.

    #218671
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Yes, the wording in Future Echoes is so vague that there are tonnes of possibilities. I’ve no doubt that the original intention was to imply that Rimmer’s dad had indeed killed himself, but it’s easy enough to retcon away.

    What’s more interesting is the point that Pendo brought up – who is the “father” referred to in the BTL letter? Rimmer’s Mum believed that Rimmer was a Rear Admiral Lieutenant General, so she must have assumed he’d seen the hololamp message and learned the truth. So when she said “your father is dead”, did she mean the man who raised him or his biological father?

    #218672
    (deleted)
    Participant

    Better Than Life just became about eighty times more heartbreaking.

    #218673
    si
    Participant

    The first I knew of the ‘Suicide business’ line was when I read it in the Smegazine adaptation of Future Echoes. Always misinterpreted it and thought Mr Rimmer was into S&M, but looking smart at the same time.
    “Shiny clean boots and a spanking, short haircut and you can cope with anything.”

    #218675
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    On the subject of families, I’ve always wondered what happened to Lister’s mum, his adoptive mother anyway. We know that Mr. Lister died when Dave was five, but anytime we hear about any other incidences in his childhood – coming bottom of the class in French, the Fat Boy Years etc. – it’s his grandmother who seems to be his sole caregiver.

    #218676
    cwickham
    Participant

    Was Rimmer’s mother even aware that Lecturer Rimmer planned for him to find out he wasn’t his biological father, though?

    #218677
    flanl3
    Participant

    I’d assume his parents still talk quite a bit, otherwise a) Lecturer Rimmer wouldn’t have known or b) we’d have heard something about his parents ever splitting up.

    #218679
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Enjoy the show, everyone.

    #218680

    So, Rimmer’s father attempts suicide but is unsuccessful. Not able to tolerate the idea that he could find himself at such a low point in his life after years of putting on a face and ignoring his wife’s multiple affairs and the disappointment he sees in his sons, surely by-products of his own failures passed on, he decides to come clean to his youngest, Arnold.

    Arnold, the boy who he knows really didn’t deserve such hardship because after all, he is the result of a fling between his wife and sweet, simple Dungo. But rather than shout it from the rooftops, he knows Arnold can make it, without his misguided help, without the weight of a dysfunctional family and past. So before he falls too ill, before Arnold embarks for a long trip aboard a barely sellotaped together tramp steamer, he records a holo-message and hopes that Arnold makes it as an officer and as a better man than he was. He loves that boy and he wondered, in fleeting moments of lucidity during illness, if Arnold knew he wasn’t disappointed in him at all, rather he was disappointed that he couldn’t have been a better father.

    Rimmer Sr. died peacefully in his sleep and his wife never really realised Arnold was Dungo’s. He died never knowing his son perished a short while later in a radiation accident but from that, went on an adventure through time and space that would have made him proud, made him say… well done, son.

    #218682
    flanl3
    Participant

    But was the letter from BTL really about the lecturer, or was it about Dungo? That question is still open and important.

    #218685

    The beginning of Dimension Jump informs me to an extent that Rimmer’s mother was referring to her husband in the letter, not Dungo. She had affairs, she wasn’t particularly close to Arnold but there’s a definite feeling of care between her and her youngest. The novel ‘Backwards’ also alludes to Rimmer’s mother being a parent and doing what is required, even if it doesn’t go much beyond that.

    #218686
    Ridley
    Participant

    >On the subject of families, I’ve always wondered what happened to Lister’s mum, his adoptive mother anyway.

    He never had one according to The Last Day.

    #218687
    Dax101
    Participant

    When i heard that line in future echoes i always assumed Rimmers dad attempted suicide at some point so i don’t think its a affects anything at all really.

    Rimmer father has been described as quite a troubled individual if you take note of what Rimmer says about him in Better than life and also the inquisitor where Rimmer says his father was a “half-crazed military failure” so the idea Rimmers father could have attempted something like that isn’t shocking

    #218692
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >But was the letter from BTL really about the lecturer, or was it about Dungo? That question is still open and important.

    The letter was about Rimmer’s Dad. There was no Dungo. Then 22 years later, Doug had a rethink. There is no definitive answer to this question, and you’ll never get one.

    #218693

    Ssh, you’ll ruin the group fanwank.

    #218694
    Lilly Queen
    Participant

    Let people enjoy their fanwank, It’s not for everyone, but it’s not hurting anyone.

    #218695
    Dave
    Participant

    Complaining about fans dissecting Red Dwarf on a Red Dwarf fansite forum, there.

    #218696
    flanl3
    Participant

    Complaining about fans dissecting Red Dwarf on a Red Dwarf fansite forum, there.

    Wait, really? I thought this was a Teletubbies fan site that I was just giving a break from its normal forum material.

    #218697
    Dave
    Participant

    Wait, really? I thought this was a Teletubbies fan site that I was just giving a break from its normal forum material.

    I suppose Po could be considered a red dwarf.

    #218698

    John Poare.

    #218699
    Dave
    Participant

    Doesn’t really work, does it.

    #218700

    Tell you what, that crack is really John Hoareish.

    #218707
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    >>He never had one according to The Last Day.

    He mentions his adoptive mother twice, if I recall – in Kryten and Thanks for the Memory.

    Much as I liked the revelation of Rimmer being the son of Dungo, it does ruin the rather brilliant fan theory that Rimmer is the only biological child of Mr. and Mrs. Rimmer, with his brothers being the children of other, better men – Uncle Frank, Porky Roebuck’s dad etc.

    #218752
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Who is to say that the suicide in question is Daddy Rimmer’s? It could be that he caused somebody else to commit suicide.

    Think of it this way, you could easily describe Rimmer’s day working with the Samaritans as “rather unfortunate suicide business”.

    #218753
    flanl3
    Participant

    The FE quote does specify that it’s Rimmer’s father who used to say it, but I suppose you’re right, it could just be that he couldn’t cope with Rimmer’s Samaritans day even in that getup.

    #218757

    So maybe when Rimmer was volunteering for Samaritans, everyone that rang up got told his dads phrase of “Shiny clean boots and a spanking, short haircut and you can cope with anything”…. and then they all, rather unfortunately, committed suicide.

    #218758
    Dave
    Participant

    So maybe when Rimmer was volunteering for Samaritans, everyone that rang up got told his dads phrase of “Shiny clean boots and a spanking, short haircut and you can cope with anything”…. and then they all, rather unfortunately, committed suicide.

    And one of them had a donor card in their wallet and ended up donating their appendix to Lister.

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