Teaser? I hardly know her!

NEW TEASER AND PICCIES, EVERYONE.

UPDATE: Now, before we get on to analysing that lovely little teaser, let’s pick through the other details that were released today.

Firstly, confirmation, if confirmation be need be, that rather than premiering on Dave as previously billed, each episode will once again be debuted on UKTV Play. You know our feelings on this matter, but equally we know that we’re fighting a losing battle. I’m sad that Back To Earth and Series X will likely forever remain the only times I ever took part in that beautiful communal viewing experience, but for UKTV, it’s a chance to boost their still-relatively-new catch-up service considerably, at very little tangible cost to the linear broadcast. So we’ve come to accept it and adapt to it, but now there’s an extra little twist with the news that each episode will appear on UKTV Play on a Thursday, not the Friday like it was for episodes 2-6 of Series XI.

Sigh. At least when it was the day after the previous episode was broadcast, there was a clear delineation – the few remaining Dave-pacers could have the rest of the night to register their opinions and catch up with the discussion, before everyone else moved on the next day. Now the Dave broadcasts are going to be even more of an anti-climax. From the second each episode finishes, it will no longer be the latest episode. And that’s assuming the best case scenario, which is that the next episode goes live at 9:40pm. The alternative – that the episode drops in the morning, like it did for XI – would be absolutely ridiculous. The forums and hashtags would be swamped with discussion about “next week’s” episode before “this week’s” goes to air. Please, UKTV, if you’re reading. We promise to not bang on about it if you at least wait until after TX to debut the next episode.

Moving on, the TOS article also contains four lovely new photos, only three of which appear in SFX, which does however contain one picture which wasn’t posted on TOS. Allow us to lazily repeat ourselves:

The all-new picture was taken in what would certainly seem to be Starbug’s mid-section, judging by the green hue. Cat’s filing his nails, Rimmer’s nailing his files, Lister’s reading a magazine with a headline that looks like the bottom half of our logo, and Kryten’s doing fuck all, although he did presumably provide the uneaten sausage sandwich on the table. I like the metal JMC mugs.

Just one thing before the disco teaser trailer, the classic t-shirt that had previously been teased on Twitter turned out to be the Smoke Me A Kipper t-shirt, which is now available to order from the Red Dwarf Shop. I make this at least the fourth pressing of this particular design. The Shop doesn’t show you the back, but I’m going to assume it doesn’t feature the tour date-esque list of dimensions Ace has visited, as appeared on the original.

And so without further ado, please accept this gift of nine screengrabs with some words underneath them:


The teaser starts with a familiar looking nameplate shot, and features throughout an extremely slow piano version of the theme tune, which gives it a hauntingly melancholic feel. On paper, that’s not the best approach for the joyous return of a largely-upbeat comedy show, but it really works.


Then an all new effects shot – it looks like a model to me, so if it’s CGI then it’s very good CGI – of something (Starbug?) travelling up a tractor beam into a big space station or sutin. It reminds me of the end credits of seminal CBBC sci-fi/baking mash-up Pie In The Sky, and that can only be a good thing.


Then we have some sort of mechanoid, raising his arms aloft, seemingly to a crowd, like the gladiator that Jesus once mistook Kryten for. Time was, if you saw a shot of a mechanoid in a trailer, you knew which character it was, but this is clearly from The One Where Everyone’s Kryten, and so it could therefore be anyone. It’s clearly not Robert, but if it’s one of the other regulars than my money’s on Craig, but it could equally be a guest or an extra.


This is possibly the most intriguing shot of the teaser. It’s Chris Barrie rising to attention, except he’s crashed his Bentley and forgotten to put his wig on. That scar on his face looks like it’s in the shape of an R (hat tip: Darrell), which surely can’t be a coincidence. It’s somewhat disturbing and quite possibly 007-influenced, as is…


…Lister hog-tied to an automatic castration machine. “Do you expect me to talk?” “No, Mr Lister, I expect you to have your knob lasered off.” It’s as yet unconfirmed as to whether the automatic castration machine will then fax said appendage to Canada.


Then we get a shot of Rimmer and Kryten being buffeted around the science room. There’s always at least one wobbley emergency scene per series. Ooh look, there’s a bowl of fruit behind them.


While all this is going on, we start to hear the words of Rimmer asking where and when he is. Well, he appears to be in the past, or at the very least in another dimension, presumably having skipped there. Oh man, despite him being twice the man he was in 1987, Chris just looks so right in that uniform. It’s a great recreation of a classic design, although the corridor is not so faithful a recreation. This is understandable, as it’s much cheaper and quicker to redress and relight an existing set than build a new one, and it matters not, as those changes to the colour palette do a great job of invoking the atmosphere of the early series.


Holly then answers Rimmer’s questions, and it’s a shame that this reveal of Holly’s presence couldn’t have been held back until the night, but unavoidable given how he’s been telling everyone who’ll listen for a year and a half. It’s an obvious but amusing gag, and it’s undoubtedly Holly-esque. We don’t see him in vision for very long, but I’d tentatively say that Norman looks better in motion than he does in the still that was released. I’m relatively optimistic that this could be really good.


And finally, another ship shot, with caption, hashtag and logos for show, channel and sponsor. However, the logo on screen is different from the one that’s being used elsewhere. The W is cut off below the ellipse, and the A cut off above it. This looks rubbish. It would be odd if the logo used online and on merchandise was different to how it appears in the show, so hopefully this variation won’t spread to the episodes themselves.

The first official glimpses of footage from a new series are always exciting, and they’re always followed pretty soon after by more. If last year is anything to go by, we can look forward to a much longer trailer before too long, then some shorter variants, then some extracts from scenes. I’ve got a lot more screengrabs to make in the coming weeks.

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176 Responses to Teaser? I hardly know her!

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  1. Is it me or is the Cat not in that teaser? Am I just being blind?

  2. That gruesome Rimmer shot (that was also in yesterdays Periscope) is intriguing.

    And Holly looks a lot better in that clip than in the previous photo.

  3. Confirmed that all episodes will be on UKTV Play a week in advance again :(

  4. Confirmed that all episodes will be on UKTV Play a week in advance again :(

    Awesome, no need to avoid the internet after the episodes air when everyone who watched it live will be freely discussing spoilers.

  5. Video not available in my country apparently :) Considering I live in the UK, that’s a bit harsh :D

  6. That picture of the four of them sat around a green topped table in what appears to be the Starbug mid-section makes me all series VI warm and fuzzy inside 😊

  7. I like the one where they’ve done a Where’s Wally with Johnny Vegas.

  8. Notable: the news item says the new episodes will now be released on UKTV Play on Thursdays (as opposed to Friday morning for XI eps 2-6), meaning that people watching that way will briefly be two episodes ahead. (This is probably not a mistake, as the same thing is currently happening with Taskmaster.)

  9. Normmmmm!

    It’s nice to know that the monitor that runs Holly is Freeview capable :D Who knew Freeview would be a thing that far in the future!

  10. So this is the first bit of XII news I’ve caught since the campaign really got going, largely because it autoplayed on my Twitter feed. But what a fantastically bleak video coupled with a good joke. Excited.

  11. Disappointed to have the Holly reveal spoiled.

  12. Oh! So because Doug wanted Rimmer to travel back to series one era, we sort of had to have *****n *****t.

  13. Disappointed to have the Holly reveal spoiled.

    To be fair, the whole world and his dog know Norman’s back, so there’s little point in hiding it now. :)

  14. I’ve only watched since series 9 … who is Holly?

  15. Great pictures of the crew they all look good. The video is brilliant. Spectacular ship they are obviously being transported in there, also the Kryten based episode that doesn’t look like Kryten; should be a interesting episode. Chris Barrie looking a bit like Dr Evil off Austin Powers there. Norman looking old but he is 70 but he still has the same old charm as Holly. Excited now plus on uktv play a week before Awooga

  16. I am so stoked for this next series! I have a feeling that the beige uniform Rimmer and the odd look of Holly are tied in, and going to be one and the same – not quite a time-travel-back episode, but some weird alternate universe thing.
    Gutted that once again it’s going to be online before broadcast – at least I have a decent laptop to watch on – but I’d rather be watching on my big telly…

  17. It doesnt even really matter if you have a decent laptop to watch on, the quality of UKTV play is pretty poor. I dunno why they dont have it in HD.

  18. Unless that Rimmer/Holly dialogue is taken from two different episodes – which seems very unlikely, but you never know – then “Skipper” *is* the one with **r*** ***e** after all. Which surprises me, because it seems that “Skipper” was the sixth and final episode recorded, and I’d presumed Holly was in “Mechocracy”, which I believe to be recording 4 based on the set reports.

    This gives us the following possibilities:
    a) Holly is actually in multiple episodes this series.
    b) I’ve got the recording order wrong.
    c) The surprise return mentioned in the recording 4 set report is somebody, or something, else. (I’ve just thought who this could be…)

    On another note, the classic “Smoke Me a Kipper” T-shirt is now in the Red Dwarf store. A hint at another return, possibly?

  19. I never thought there was any chance Holly would be in any episode but Skipper.

    I AM EXCITE ABOUT TRAILER. That big spinny ship thing looks gorgeous.

  20. Disappointed to have the Holly reveal spoiled.

    To be fair, the whole world and his dog know Norman’s back, so there’s little point in hiding it now. :)

    Well I knew he was back from back when everybody was posting “N***** *o**t*”, but having that line spoiled is what irks me. It feels like that’s his reveal line, although perchance it won’t be. What a thing to spoil if it is, though. I want to send an e-mail to the marketing people and tell them to fuck off for that one.

  21. I’ve just thought who this could be

    Doug brings back Clare Grogan’s Kochanski, sits back in his chair with a cigar and a can of Leapord Lager and watches fans on the internet lose their fucking minds trying to explain why she’s Clare again. For her next appearance, Chloe comes back. Then they both appear. It’ll be chaos

  22. I want to watch, but I really hate trailers as they always spoil things. Is this one spoilery? I guess just being on this forum is somewhat spoilery.

    Doctor Who is the worst for it. The whole first 15 minutes of mystery and build up of what the monster of the week is, is pointless, as they’ve already shown it attacking him in the “coming next week” trailer.

  23. Is this one spoilery?

    A bit, but not really. It spoils one funny line, which is potential a character’s first, which would be much more effective unspoiled.

    Doctor Who is the worst for it.

    Amen. I stopped watching the Next Time trailers around Series 4. The worst offender is Under the Lake – the cliffhanger shows the Doctor “dead”, setting up a mystery, and the next time trailer shows him alive and well again for most of the episode! Unbelievable!

    It was a shit idea anyway – Moffat had just done “the doctor is dying” in the previous fucking episode, and a couple times before, he should have put his foot down and said “no, you can’t do this cliffhanger because i’ve already done it to death”

  24. One other thing: we still don’t know which episode “Lister finds updating the ship’s software could be a matter of life or death” belongs to. I’d previously thought this could be “Mechocracy”, but thanks to SFX we now know this episode is home to the plot with the Cat needing glasses, and it seems unlikely we’d get all three of those (including the election plot) in one episode.

  25. That piano version of the theme reminds me of when we didn’t know Jurassic World would be rubbish.

  26. One thing I didn’t notice until I saw Holly in motion: they’ve used black make-up below his chin again (like they did in Series 8) rather than use a black polo neck jumper. I prefer the latter; there’s something odd about the way his chin has no underside when he tilts his head upwards.

  27. One other thing: we still don’t know which episode “Lister finds updating the ship’s software could be a matter of life or death” belongs to. I’d previously thought this could be “Mechocracy”, but thanks to SFX we now know this episode is home to the plot with the Cat needing glasses, and it seems unlikely we’d get all three of those (including the election plot) in one episode.

    i’d be willing to bet that M-Corp is the one in which updating the ship’s software is a matter of life or death

  28. I bet the M in M-Corp stands for Monocle.

  29. Was M Corp mentioned in Samsara? Maybe in the mobile game only I can’t remember.

  30. A bit, but not really. It spoils one funny line, which is potential a character’s first, which would be much more effective unspoiled.

    Took the chance, don’t feel spoiled at all. Looking good! :D

  31. > Doug brings back Clare Grogan’s Kochanski … For her next appearance, Chloe comes back. Then they both appear. It’ll be chaos

    Roseanne already did it. Doug should do it anyway though, and call the episode Altered Images or something.

  32. Unless that Rimmer/Holly dialogue is taken from two different episodes – which seems very unlikely, but you never know – then “Skipper” *is* the one with **r*** ***e** after all. Which surprises me, because it seems that “Skipper” was the sixth and final episode recorded, and I’d presumed Holly was in “Mechocracy”, which I believe to be recording 4 based on the set reports.

    This gives us the following possibilities:
    a) Holly is actually in multiple episodes this series.
    b) I’ve got the recording order wrong.
    c) The surprise return mentioned in the recording 4 set report is somebody, or something, else. (I’ve just thought who this could be…)
    On another note, the classic “Smoke Me a Kipper” T-shirt is now in the Red Dwarf store. A hint at another return, possibly?

    The impression i get is that Norman is only in one episode.

    I believe even Norman mentioned he was in the last episode.

    Speaking of that episode Doug has confirmed Ace Rimmer doesn’t appear and so the name Skipper is unrelated to him.

  33. > Is it me or is the Cat not in that teaser?

    It’s odd that he’s not in it at all. Probably just to wind up Danny.

  34. I was thinking that the android celebrating might be the Cat-Kryten.

  35. Considering the background that particular set looks like it is lit heavily orange which would explain the mask being that colour in that lighting.

  36. just noticed in the part of the teaser where Lister’s tied up on that bed, the screen behind him says “automatic castration”. are we going to be getting an episode where Lister walks around trying to relocate his cock?

  37. I assume lister with the red laser thing is the same episode with Chris looking kinda evil and its gonna be this james bond villain type deal

  38. Seems like something that could tie in with a cure for evil.

    Or perhaps I’m way off.

  39. That is what I was thinking. Like they can remove all the evil but it has to go somewhere.

  40. automatic castration

    cure for evil

    Hmm.

  41. To be fair about the Corridor that Rimmer is in with the classic outfit it could just be another part of the ship that Rimmer is in because he clearly is a higher rank judging by another image.

    I believe there is an image floating around of Esperanto text on a grey wall plate which is similar to the one you see in series 1 so i imagine we may see a replicated corridor from Series 1 anyway.

  42. That scar on Rimmer’s face is an “R”. You can see the tail of it on his other cheek.

    What’s going on with Holly’s lips?

  43. G&T Admin

    Ah, you’re right, I didn’t spot the tail!

  44. I don’t envy the job of the publicity department putting teasers and trailers together. Pick the very best lines from the show and you’ve spoilt the best bits; pick some less good lines and the show looks like it’s going to be weak. It works really well when a funny line from a teaser/trailer actually leads to an even funnier line (eg. Kryten’s “and you are?!” in one of the sneak-peeks was brilliant, but to then go on to become the whole “Captain Bollocks” thing was a whole new level), and less well when the funny line is the best bit of the scene (eg. Lister’s “could these life signs possibly be us?” leading into “it says it here in big, red letters” is not quite so good).

    A really nice teaser altogether – some intriguing shots, a great familiarity, and a pretty amusing gag spoilt for me only because my stupid ears heard “*what* is this?” rather than “when is this?”, which made the punchline not work for me the first time. Bit odd that Holly appears yet, as mentioned earlier, no sign of the Cat.

    One thing is for sure: I. Can. Not. Wait! Roll on 5 Oct.

  45. The logo: the line of the end of the W carries on through into the beginning of the A, the ellipse separating the letters. So I think it’s actual design thing, just not particularly well realised.

  46. Brilliant teaser. Loved that.

    Nice to see Sebastian Shaw again.

  47. You get the same excitement seeing Holly appear in the trailer as you would in the episode. There are lots of “Holly!!!!!!” comments on YouTube, those people had their moment and it was better than reading it in a tweet. The trailer is the right place to market the return of a popular character, it’s fine.

    Disappointed that Cat doesn’t seem to be in this series though, presumably he drowned in episode 1.

  48. Rimmer’s Series I-II style uniform says Second Technician in the trailer, not Navigation Officer like it does in the publicity shot.

    Great teaser. Got me very, what the word?… teased!

  49. The Kryten looking thing holding up a pole or broom handle actually looks like.it could be a statue rather than a person. There’s something odd looking about it.

  50. Im interested why a seemingly purpose built automatic castration machine doesnt have a mechanism for holding the patient and has to rely on ropes in this case. Surely there is no situatuation where we assume the patient wouldnt flinch during the operation, and that this is a repurposed machine.

  51. Wouldn’t the patient normally be unconscious and therefore immobile?

  52. I like that we’re looking for plot holes before we even know the plot.

  53. Bugger, not available in the US.

  54. Well, the last series was – for me – worse than series VIII. Hopefully they’ve pulled it together with this one. I’m an optimist, so I’ll wait it out and reserve judgement until it airs (obviously). I didn’t even pick up the DVD/Blu Ray of the last series (and I own BTE). Maybe I should give it a re-watch?

    All of that said — the new trailer was pretty damn great.

  55. Oh come on, nothing is worse than series 8. 10 was a little ropey but pretty good overall and 11 was great! I re-watched 11 again recently and was pleasantly surprised at how many laughs it got out of me.

  56. I will re-watch 11, I owe it that much. But, honestly, I preferred 10. I preferred Dear Dave (seriously). 11 started off 50/50, episodes 2 and 3 were much better, and then it just went to shit. I wanted to love it, but for the first time I didn’t go back and re-watch an episode of RD immediately, and I haven’t re-watched them since. But I should. Maybe the time VS. the expectation ‘at the time’ has softened them up a bit. I’ll get back to you.

  57. X is probably my favourite series outside of the BBC Manchester years, and I’m still not bored of rewatching it. I’m looking forward to Mechocracy precisely because it seems very X in premise.

    XI I *still* haven’t properly made my mind up on – it’s full of very strong episodes and moments but its cold aesthetics and some series V-style story incoherence really pull it down for me. I’m not a big supporter of the Netflix/US cable-style flexible timeslot but Dwarf has always needed the option of breathing room. I don’t like Twentica and I think the brutal edit is the main reason (plus pitch-altering Kevin Eldon’s voice and a very weird ‘cinematic’ sound mix with too much atmos and hardly any audience). There’s only Krysis I can’t find some fault with, whereas I don’t think I’d change any of X.

    I think XII will be better than XI. More memorable/notable stuff to come, more ambition, I’m now braced for the sound/photography/grading issues that don’t rock my tree, and the fanboy giddiness as Skipper approaches is going a long way. Because that’s our ‘The Day Of The Doctor’ really, surely?

  58. I wasn’t that impressed by the last series as i thought it was fairly messy in story structure and the comedy ranged from clever to abit Series 8 goofy.

    But its Red Dwarf so even after last several unimpressive attempts i still get excited by the idea of seeing new red dwarf… even if my excitement has slowly declined by each series after 8.

  59. Why is Norman’s face so pale? He looks like a corpse. Get some warm lighting on that face!

  60. I thought XI was pretty strong – a few naff moments but a few spectacular moments also. Some of it is so incredibly fast paced, though, that it makes episodes like Polymorph seem lowkey and uneventful. I haven’t rewatched any of it yet, will be interesting to see if my opinions change

  61. The only episode that I watched twice was Twentica. I went to the screening with the cast in Edinburgh, and although it was a good event, I wasn’t that impressed with the episode. I did warm to it on a second viewing, but it felt lacking for a first episode return. I liked the following two, despite some minor quibbles which aren’t worth going into to. The final three, however, they broke it for me. Unfinished, wasted potential, abrupt endings, on the nose, overly broad humour and performance (please, not that argument again). However, I’m looking forward to XII and I’m crossing my fingers that it’s a significant improvement on XI

  62. X is probably my favourite series outside of the BBC Manchester years, and I’m still not bored of rewatching it. I’m looking forward to Mechocracy precisely because it seems very X in premise.

    I honestly don’t know what to say to that. Okay, I do like X more than XI (on the whole) and it, indeed, pisses all over VII and VIII (after it’s eaten a shitload of asparagus…), though to say X is better than IV, V and VI is……an opinion of which you are perfectly entitled to. :D

    Even if it’s (WRONG WRONG WRONGG WRONGGNGNNNGGG) kind of controversial. :)

  63. Why is Norman’s face so pale? He looks like a corpse. Get some warm lighting on that face!

    That the frickin obsession with a blue colour grade that’s done that…that has. Seriously, 5 of the pics above all blue. Was hoping less blue for XII, to differentiate it from XI. Hey ho. :D

  64. They made Hattie fairly pale in Series 4.

    Although perhaps it fleshes normans wrinkles out abit to much here.

  65. to say X is better than IV, V and VI is……an opinion of which you are perfectly entitled to. :D
    Even if it’s (WRONG WRONG WRONGG WRONGGNGNNNGGG) kind of controversial. :)

    IV-VI contain some of the show’s all time best episodes and also a lot of half-baked stuff, bad recycling, incoherent storylines etc which get forgiven because of how good the classics are, the nostalgia factor and the great aesthetics. But they’re all very flawed series taken as a whole. X is effortlessly coherent, consistent and slick.

    If I’ve not pissed you off enough yet I think VII is better than VI as well and VIII is really underrated. ;)

    (To be honest my main opinion is that Dwarf is broadly consistent across its 30 years and there’s classic stuff in every single series)

  66. i sort of agree on some of that, imo IV is a pretty weak series, and i’d take X over it any day. but i wouldn’t go as far to say X is better than V or VI.

    as for “VIII being really underrated”, i personally think that any series of Red Dwarf where i’m watching a bunch of blokes play basketball with massive erections is a series that’s gone horribly wrong somewhere

  67. I think what makes the grant naylor era work well is that it always had a good balance that worked well when it came to a Sci-FI and Comedy,

    Thing about X is that the balance seems to rock back and forth.

    I don’t think we would ever get an episode like say dimension jump today because it’s way too simplistic of a story.

  68. X is effortlessly coherent, consistent and slick.

    If flat lighting and dodgy model effects, costumes and make-up are slick, Dear Dave was consistent and Entangled was coherent then yes, I would agree with you.

  69. Certainly after watching We’re Smegged, saying anything about X was effortless seems a bit of a stretch.

  70. The end product is fine. Besides, it had a less disastrous production than most of series V, or Out Of Time, and we’re happy to judge those by the end result alone. I genuinely don’t think you’d know if you hadn’t seen We’re Smegged. It’s obviously a lower budget series, but it stays within its means.

    The scripting is very strong, even the stuff patched in or cobbled together late in the production. The adrenaline really comes through on screen – it doesn’t always follow that the smoothest production creates the most polished end product, a bit of peril can spice up the final programme.

  71. Series V didn’t have two complete scripts that had to be thrown out due to all the location filming having to be scrapped, a problem that meant the series wouldn’t pass quality control or the production losing all the rushes. “Out of Time” had to have the scripts written onto autocues because it was written so late, but that’s still better than half an episode not being able to be filmed at all because it’s simply not written yet.

    The question “would we know anything was wrong if we didn’t know what a disastrous production it had been?” is an interesting one, though. I’d imagine I’d consider the lack of location filming and the absence of an internal Starbug set a bit odd (especially the scene in “Trojan” with voiceovers during a model shot), and there’s DEFINITELY a noticeable bit of papering over the cracks in “Entangled” when the Dwarfers turn the chimp back into Irene and we only see her legs and she doesn’t say anything at all until we cut to the next scene. (“Dear Dave” just about gets away with it provided you don’t notice the greenscreen.)

  72. It was clear right from the get-go that RDX was at least a bit low budget – I think even without seeing We’re Smegged you could work that one out, what with it being on Dave and everything.

    As far as realising the production was troubled, no, not really. I did notice the greenscreen in Dear Dave, but didn’t think much of it, other than “hey, this bit’s clearly on greenscreen.” Some of the model shots being a bit hokey I just put down to them not having the facilities/budget they used to have – having models at all seemed like a miracle.
    No Starbug and no locations could be explained away with “Dave couldn’t afford it”, although who knows if I actually noticed at the time, I don’t remember. I didn’t noticed Entangled being pasted over, although I did think Irene’s exit was very sudden – I assumed it was just a quick and nasty way to get rid of her (which it was). I didn’t like her, though, so I was glad to see her go.

  73. Irens exit for me is an example for me of how quality of writing isn’t quite up to par with the early seasons

    I mean she falls over boxes sideways, the door closes behind her and she flushes herself into space…

    Doug probably thought it worked ok because she does everything wrong but it looks really silly even for a sitcom.

  74. To this day I don’t understand why the BEGGs all suddenly keel over and die. That’s one of the main issues I have with 10 is that there seem to be a lot of plot-critical things explained in throwaway lines. I guess the quantum rod as a ‘magic plot device’ just is never explained well, as I equally don’t understand where Howard’s ship comes from. I understood the technobabble that explained it as propulsion, but they didn’t move … so did it pull them to Howard’s ship? But he was crashing into a star … Just don’t understand.

    So one one hand you have important stuff glossed over, while the other main issue I have is that half the episodes feel padded out. All that crap with the dispensing machines feels like he didn’t have enough stuff for the main plot and needed something to fill the run-time, which is never a good look for a show.

  75. The end product is fine. Besides, it had a less disastrous production than most of series V, or Out Of Time, and we’re happy to judge those by the end result alone. I genuinely don’t think you’d know if you hadn’t seen We’re Smegged. It’s obviously a lower budget series, but it stays within its means.

    The scripting is very strong, even the stuff patched in or cobbled together late in the production. The adrenaline really comes through on screen – it doesn’t always follow that the smoothest production creates the most polished end product, a bit of peril can spice up the final programme.

    The series VII model effects were done too early in production and most weren’t usable, which resulted in the most shit CG ever. Yep, that really spiced that up the final programme.

    And a less disastrous production then V? That’s a hell of a statement to make with We’re Smegged as evidence. I mean the title kind of says it all. Still I agree, Red Dwarf often proves that the final product doesn’t have to suffer. Even within X. The Beginning being one of the episodes with the biggest difficulties and is a hell of a strong episode and also manages to have more scale then any other episode of that series. Entangled and Dear Dave on the other hand don’t come together nearly so well. And these issues along with botched model effects, Kryten’s mask and general plotting issues; all things we hadn’t seen before, did make it obvious to me even before the documentary that there were some big problems.

    Of course at the time I was lot more forgiving because I was just so glad to see Red Dwarf back with a proper series with an audience and model effects. All things that seemed like they would never happen again at the time. And being on Dave it felt reasonable that it wouldn’t be as easy as on the BBC. But with hindsight of series XI and XII it’s not quite the same. We now know that with an even smaller budget then X, it is possible on Dave to have Red Dwarf made incredibly smoothly even compared to a lot of the older series.

    And it seriously looks amazing now. Sequences like the space station in Give & Take are practically feature film quality. It’s how I’ve always dreamed of Red Dwarf looking. Having said that I’m not sure if I do prefer series XI to X. I think I perhaps laugh more in general with X. But Give & Take is about the most perfect episode I’ve seen since Legion and I never thought I’d be saying that in the Dave era. There are still good times ahead!

  76. >I genuinely don’t think you’d know if you hadn’t seen We’re Smegged.

    It was painfully obvious on first watch that there were serious BTS problems with Entangled and Dear Dave. We’re Smegged just specified what they were.

  77. I didn’t know and I’m fairly ‘on it’ for stuff like this. I wasn’t online for the whole year proceeding TX so I went in completely unsullied.

    I spotted some greenscreen in Dear Dave but was so impressed by how well it was done and how much I enjoyed the episode I didn’t find it indicative of anything. Just assumed a bit of prefilming/reshoot trickery for logistical/technical reasons. Entangled is less jolting plot-wise than parts of V are.

    Ah, every year there’s an episode I love that the fanbase in general hate. I wonder which one it will be this time!

  78. i liked Dear Dave because the subplot about the vending machines was quite cute tbh, it felt like it had a bit of heart behind it

    i couldn’t give two fucks about whoever hayley summer was though

  79. [blockquote]To this day I don’t understand why the BEGGs all suddenly keel over and die.[/blockquote]
    Coincidence.

  80. Doug changed the rules to that whole coincidence thing because at times Cat and Kryten made coincidence happen when under stress but other times like the beggs thing Kryten dismissed it as them just being aware that it was gonna happen… Or something like that.

    Course it means the beggs all just coincidently chocked all at he same time with no influence… Which seems abit silly

  81. And it also means the Beggs would have choked regardless. As Kryten said, the quantum crystals just made them more aware of it. Which is ridiculous, because why do you need to be made aware of a bunch of guys choking to death right in front of you. It’s not something you’re really going to miss. So really, what was the point of all that?

  82. FYI, the version of this teaser that was posted to the Red Dwarf Facebook page doesn’t have the region lockout, which makes me wonder why they bothered putting it on the YouTube version in the first bloody place.

  83. It’s quite amusing that many people commenting on the teaser on social media are mistaking the retro Rimmer and Holly bit is a flashback continuation showing what happens after the ending of series VIII! Understandable confusion though with Rimmer being dressed like that and totally possible that he could have died and been regenerated as a hologram with the original blocky H.

  84. I’ve just watched X again. Still solid for latter day RD. I didn’t entirely gel with it on a first watch, but I didn’t find it unwatchable like the latter half of XI (which I WILL rewatch shortly, just for peace of mind). Dear Dave still works for me, reminds me of series I episodes like Waiting For God, and the subplot with the vending machines was verging on classic RD (on the same level as Talkie Toaster, though not as iconic or memorable).

    For me, though, series I-VI are still at the top of the pile.

  85. I dunno why but The Guardian just posted an article on Red Dwarf about when good tv turns bad and talks about the shows drop in quality since Rob Grant left.

    Admittedly they don’t mention series X or XI, they seem to stop after mentioning BTE.

    Its not a very good article tbh.

  86. FYI, the version of this teaser that was posted to the Red Dwarf Facebook page doesn’t have the region lockout, which makes me wonder why they bothered putting it on the YouTube version in the first bloody place.

    Licensing restrictions on YouTube, basically.

  87. I don’t agree with Better Dead Than Smeg, but I do like to see opinions that go against the “status quo”. I don’t have a problem with anything in Dear Dave to be totally honest.

    The article sort of briefly alludes to X onwards and then dismisses it with a handwave before going onto something else, which is a typical tactic used by people who realise they don’t have a rebuttal for a certain argument – pretend they’ve adressed it and then quickly move on.

  88. The Vending machine bonk scene if probably one of the worst pieces of red dwarf ever IMO.

    The underpants scene in polymorph worked well from the angle they shot it when Rimmer walks in but with the vending machine one it just didn’t work at all. it was just craig trying hard to make it work in a very unconvincing way.

    And the Rimmer plot in that episode was so dull that i actually still don’t fully know what it was about because i tune out on it.

  89. >I do like to see opinions that go against the “status quo”.

    Torturing puppies is fun.

  90. I can’t remember a Rimmer plot in Dear Dave. There was something to do with toilet paper, but that was The Cat.
    Lister dating a slag, The Cat needing to shit, Lister dating a vending machine.

    What episode was Taiwan Tony in? I think I’m getting episodes mixed up.

  91. It was something to do with Rimmer being at risk of being demoted by the JMC computer because he hasn’t been on duty in 3 million years and them doing something about it involving toilet paper.

  92. the toilet paper was a bribe (i think?) to get the JMC computer to not demote him, though what exactly a computer would do with a lifetime supply of toilet paper is beyond me.

  93. I’m now telling the computer *exactly* what it can do with a lifetime supply of toilet paper.

  94. G&T Admin

    I’m now telling the computer *exactly* what it can do with a lifetime supply of toilet paper.

    Excellent.

  95. I thought the toilet paper business was that Rimmer needed a sufficiently large bribe for the computer, but the only way was to take back all the unused toilet paper and trade it in at the ship’s supply store, reimburse the money and then embezzle said money to pay off the computer.

    Or he could just use the teleporter.

  96. I’m now telling the computer *exactly* what it can do with a lifetime supply of toilet paper.

    I nominate this post for Hall of Fame status.

  97. It’s quite amusing that many people commenting on the teaser on social media are mistaking the retro Rimmer and Holly bit is a flashback continuation showing what happens after the ending of series VIII! Understandable confusion though with Rimmer being dressed like that and totally possible that he could have died and been regenerated as a hologram with the original blocky H.

    It is amusing, and goes hand in hand with the rumour that is spreading, I think from one
    Speculation based article, that stated ace rimmer is back in skipper , cus of that whole connection between ace and skipper.
    So that, (which is almost certainly wrong and has been denyed) plus the series X jokes about series 8 cliff hanger
    Is fuelling this speculation.

  98. More X discussion is always lovely. :D

    Trojan and Lemons are GOOD.

    Fathers & Suns and Entangled are…both halfway toward being classics IMO. Entangled especially….I love the first section; it’s basically picking up where IV, V and VI left off, with the cast totally nailing it and the situation feeling as Dwarf-like as anything since back-in-the-day. Real sad where it ends up….though that couldn’t be helped (you’ve gotta sympathise with Doug and the whole crew, who were so up against it, fair play to them even putting together a serviceable episodes, and the same with Dear Dave).

    Fathers & Suns has an all-time great RD scene with Lister getting bollocked by his ‘dad’. Pree is also frickin awesome, there’s no denying it. In fact, I genuinely love the idea of Lister being ‘fired’ from the ship; the concept of him having all privileges taken away, oxygen included, being a stroke of genius. Sadly, some godawful (sorry, it has to be said) writing in certain scenes (not least when Rimmer and Kryten are arguing over Pree’s *cough* attributes) and the entire Chinese Whispers storyline….pull the rug out from under the whole thing. It’s a crying shame cause I damn well LOVE the best parts of that episode, and along with the best parts of Entangled, you really are looking at the most likeable material since 1993, no question.

    Dear Dave is…underrated? It’s one of the funniest of all 6 episodes, for a start. It also features the cast being completely on point. In fact, it’s worth noting just how fucking excellent the cast were across ALL of X. If you forget about stuff like ‘Shakespeare, it’s OVERR!’ (which is maybe more hilarious cause of how bad it is :p) the cast perfectly rose to the challenge.

    The long and short of it is…I find there’s LOTS more to talk about with X than there ever could be with XI. XI isn’t ‘rubbish’ by any means, though there’s something I can’t quite put my finger on… On rewatches, sometimes I’ve found myself wondering whether Doug should have got rid of the audience and gone single camera…

  99. I love the *concept* of Dear Dave – the Dwarfers must have loads of boring, lonely days where nothing happens and they’re left to ponder the futility of their predicament. (It would perhaps work better if it wasn’t a bottle episode in what is effectively a bottle series.) And it’s fascinating from a production viewpoint given that it was pieced together from three separate shoots.

  100. Trojan and Dear Dave are GOOD

    I agree.

    I thought picking Pree’s features was hilarious and very Rimmer, I mean of course he’d choose the option for big tits if he could, and the frame size reveal is funny too.

  101. More X discussion is always lovely. :D

    Trojan and Lemons are GOOD.
    Fathers & Suns and Entangled are…both halfway toward being classics IMO. Entangled especially….I love the first section; it’s basically picking up where IV, V and VI left off, with the cast totally nailing it and the situation feeling as Dwarf-like as anything since back-in-the-day. Real sad where it ends up….though that couldn’t be helped (you’ve gotta sympathise with Doug and the whole crew, who were so up against it, fair play to them even putting together a serviceable episodes, and the same with Dear Dave).
    Fathers & Suns has an all-time great RD scene with Lister getting bollocked by his ‘dad’. Pree is also frickin awesome, there’s no denying it. In fact, I genuinely love the idea of Lister being ‘fired’ from the ship; the concept of him having all privileges taken away, oxygen included, being a stroke of genius. Sadly, some godawful (sorry, it has to be said) writing in certain scenes (not least when Rimmer and Kryten are arguing over Pree’s *cough* attributes) and the entire Chinese Whispers storyline….pull the rug out from under the whole thing. It’s a crying shame cause I damn well LOVE the best parts of that episode, and along with the best parts of Entangled, you really are looking at the most likeable material since 1993, no question.
    Dear Dave is…underrated? It’s one of the funniest of all 6 episodes, for a start. It also features the cast being completely on point. In fact, it’s worth noting just how fucking excellent the cast were across ALL of X. If you forget about stuff like ‘Shakespeare, it’s OVERR!’ (which is maybe more hilarious cause of how bad it is :p) the cast perfectly rose to the challenge.
    The long and short of it is…I find there’s LOTS more to talk about with X than there ever could be with XI. XI isn’t ‘rubbish’ by any means, though there’s something I can’t quite put my finger on… On rewatches, sometimes I’ve found myself wondering whether Doug should have got rid of the audience and gone single camera…

    Pretty much agree with all of the above, though I’m less fond of XI. Currently debating on whether or not to buy the blu ray and rewatch for the first time since it aired.

  102. Expecting the new series to be of equal par to series 1-4 is like expecting the new Ringo Star album to be Abbey Road part 2. I have created an algorithm that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that series X and XI have exactly the same levels of quality and humour as Emohawk: Polymorph 2. I can live with that. My old dear mother used to say expect nothing, and then life is full of relatively pleasant surprises…

  103. I think its possible for any new series of Red Dwarf to be on par with the early years of dwarf… its just i feel every attempt so far has been abit bumpy.

  104. It doesn’t matter how good the concept of ‘Dear Dave’ is, that last line totally ruins it for me.

  105. I’m genuinely fascinated, on like a watching-a-nature-documentary level, by people who can’t enjoy Dear Dave because of the punchline. The idea of just hearing a specific word and completely shutting down. As if it’s not exactly the kind of thing somebody would say in that situation – putting down an ex is a well-documented defence mechanism that most people are guilty of. It’s not rational, and after the fact you realise what you said was silly. I’m sure later on, offscreen, Lister spoke of his ex more fondly, and possibly regretted his choice of language, as so many of us do. But in the heat of the moment, you don’t act your most rational. I can’t count on ten hands the number of times I’ve heard someone say “yeah he was a dick anyway”, “she was a bitch”, when they’re clearly just hurt and doing it to cope, and they move on from it in time.

    Also it was funny.
    LIGHTEN THE SMEG UP

  106. Also it was funny.
    LIGHTEN THE SMEG UP

    I like to think the studio audience laughed at it out of politeness…

    It’s a tad disconcerting that the punchline to one episode is a ‘dizzy’ woman being accidentally flushed out an airlock, then the next is a different woman being called ‘an absolute slag’… (and that’s not mentioning the other Lister line I hate, which is ‘if Kochanski walked through that door wanting sex’ or whatever it was…XD gotta be up there with the worst lines ever in the history of the show). None of this stuff should have made it past the ideas stage…

    The only reason the Dear Dave ending is remotely acceptable is if you know the circumstances of the episode’s production, i.e. Doug was desperate for a laugh to conclude proceedings. Anything other than Lister sla….I mean slating her, after finding out the truth, is ending on a downer where he basically mopes off to have a cry over a lost child… However!! Another way I just thought of is Cat appearing in frame, with one of those actual ‘finger-wetting machines’ and a huge grin on his face as he makes a meal out of handing Lister another letter. Maybe…….not. Heck knows.

  107. I’m genuinely fascinated, on like a watching-a-nature-documentary level, by people who can’t enjoy Dear Dave because of the punchline. The idea of just hearing a specific word and completely shutting down. As if it’s not exactly the kind of thing somebody would say in that situation – putting down an ex is a well-documented defence mechanism that most people are guilty of. It’s not rational, and after the fact you realise what you said was silly. I’m sure later on, offscreen, Lister spoke of his ex more fondly, and possibly regretted his choice of language, as so many of us do. But in the heat of the moment, you don’t act your most rational. I can’t count on ten hands the number of times I’ve heard someone say “yeah he was a dick anyway”, “she was a bitch”, when they’re clearly just hurt and doing it to cope, and they move on from it in time.

    Also it was funny.
    LIGHTEN THE SMEG UP

    I think part of the problem is is that it is completely out of character for Lister (I could however see Rimmer saying it, although maybe with slightly less colourful language), who is usually the moral compass of the show. I understand what you’re saying, that people can be caught off guard and say something that ordinarily wouldn’t, I just don’t believe that Lister would ever say that about a woman than hitherto he has never mentioned.

    It’s also problematic that it is the punchline to the show. As performing monkey says, coupled with the previous episode having a woman unremorsefully flushed out the airlock as the build up to the punchline of the episode, it doesn’t paint a particularly nice picture for the way women are treated and viewed. The show has always had problems written for women in one way or another, but it has never really resorted to casual misogyny, which happens twice in a row here.

    If it hadn’t been the punchline, it might not hit home as hard for some people, but there is more emphasis on it because of it’s placement in the episode and the way the line is left hanging.

    It doesn’t bother me too much, at least it isn’t that line that ruins the episode for me, it’s all the unfortunate crap that precedes it. But I can totally understand why some people find it hard or down right offensive.

    And, I think you’re wrong. I don’t think it is funny. Lister’s reaction could have been played any number of ways that would have been humorous or even hilarious, but to suggest that calling a woman that dares to sleep with more than 1 person a slag is funny … and funny enough to end the episode on … is part of the reason so many people take issue with the line in the first place. The fact that some people find nothing wrong in casual misogyny is a problem and it hits home in an uncomfortable and saddening way to the people it affects that its in their favourite TV shows, and its fans think nothing of it.

    In the right context and handled carefully it would be fine, but to bring this back to the original point, contextually I don’t think it is fine. I don’t think this character would behave like that, even if it is meant as an out of character moment for them, and especially because we don’t see the resolve that you suggest we head cannon in as having been off screen for it.

  108. What I will say is that “slag” is a notably softer word in the North West than it is elsewhere in the country, as “cunt” is in Glasgow for example.

  109. I think it was one of those things where Doug wanted an impactful big laugh ending and so just went with that word because no one would expect them to go that far.

    You know Lister saying that was gonna get a huge laugh and it did.

  110. This isn’t directed at anyone here — even so, you might want to hold your breath while I rant for a while.

    Sadly, this is Millennial, PC, pseudo 3rd wave feminist bullshit. Must be vocally offended at everything. Must never admit the hypocrisy. Must never engage with logical arguments to the contrary. Don’t mention Hitler (even though British comedy made a living out of him and Nazi Germany for almost 50 years). Don’t say anything that could (wrongly) be interpreted as negative towards women (however, the same thing towards men? Tick. That’s fine). The 21st century has become an amusing zoo where the very worst aspects of our Victorian ancestors have been adopted by the self righteous on the Internet, which is now spilling out into everyday life. It’s a point of view that I have debated many times, but not because I want to or because I like to do so, but because I refuse to be a silent party to what is — every day censorship of the human mind. Life is not an Internet meme. People don’t have to conform to one person’s ideology. Contrary views does not make one ‘an asshole’. Freedom and equality for everyone is still a pretty good idea.

    Back to Dear Dave and that last line. It was completely in character. Lister would’ve said the same thing in season 2. Season 3. Definitely season 1. It is not offensive to women. It does not imply that sexually promiscuous women are to be shamed while sexually promiscuous men are, to adopt a phrase, hey ho pip and dandy. The word ‘slag’ is used by Lister, to vent his frustration, humorously, at the revelation that his girlfriend was CHEATING on him all along.

    It’s that simple.

    She was cheating on him with someone else. He called her a name. Could’ve said ‘Bitch’. Slag worked because of the set up. Do I have to explain that too? (that’s rhetorical).

    There is no need to police language. Orwell would not be impressed (though I imagine he’s laughing his shit-box off right now, looking down from that great barnyard in the sky).

    Can we move on from the god damn Dear Dave final line argument? It’s moronic and, well, just dull.

  111. Sadly, this is Millennial, PC, pseudo 3rd wave feminist bullshit. Must be vocally offended at everything. Must never admit the hypocrisy. Must never engage with logical arguments to the contrary. Don’t mention Hitler (even though British comedy made a living out of him and Nazi Germany for almost 50 years). Don’t say anything that could (wrongly) be interpreted as negative towards women (however, the same thing towards men? Tick. That’s fine). The 21st century has become an amusing zoo where the very worst aspects of our Victorian ancestors have been adopted by the self righteous on the Internet, which is now spilling out into everyday life. It’s a point of view that I have debated many times, but not because I want to or because I like to do so, but because I refuse to be a silent party to what is — every day censorship of the human mind. Life is not an Internet meme. People don’t have to conform to one person’s ideology. Contrary views does not make one ‘an asshole’. Freedom and equality for everyone is still a pretty good idea.

  112. I change my mind. It is directed at someone here.
    Witty. What’s next? Are you going to meme Alan Partridge singing ‘it started with a gif’?

  113. Seriously, though, fuck off.

    Fuck right off with that shit.

  114. Nobody’s censoring anything, and there’s absolutely nothing edgy, rebellious or groundbreaking about shitting on ‘PC culture’ and moaning about feminism on the internet. Don’t believe me, check literally any comments section under any article ever.

    Bonus points for dragging Orwell into it.

  115. What’s annoying me is that we’ll almost certainly be reliving this whole tedious exchange immediately after the ‘criticism is iillegal’ episode is broadcast…

    Other than that, yeah, so am I.

  116. there’s absolutely nothing edgy, rebellious or groundbreaking about shitting on ‘PC culture’ and moaning about feminism on the internet.

    Never said that there was, amigo. But, and again, way to prove a point.

  117. Contrary views does not make one ‘an asshole’. Freedom and equality for everyone is still a pretty good idea.

    Depends what you define as ‘contrary’ views. If someone voices views which I would consider repulsive, then I can make a reasonable assumption that I would find that person to be ‘an asshole’. Just like you’re probably thinking I’m one right now.

    Lister would’ve said the same thing in season 2. Season 3. Definitely season 1

    Yes, because those series were written almost 30 years ago. Cultural and social attitudes change and evolve collectively over time. If Red Dwarf had been written in 1957, it would have turned out quite differently – particularly in the casting department…

    I’m sorry if I’m coming across as bolshy, but the whole ‘PC culture is stifling honest debate’ argument really winds me up. It’s a lazy, cliched argument that Sun columnists and keyboard warriors have been bashing out since at least the mid 1980s. At best, it’s a flawed defence of people’s right to be offensive to whoever they please, at worst it’s apologism for the worst kinds of bigotry.

    It is not offensive to women

    Pretty sure I’ve read comments from several women on this forum saying that it is in fact, exactly that.

    But I’m sure you know best.

  118. I’m not going to get into the whole Dear Dave argument here because it’s already been comprehensively covered elsewhere on this site on more than one occasion.

    I am looking forward to Red Dwarf XII.

    Yep, that works for me.

    I find the use of N***** *o***t offensive.

  119. Sorry for banging on, everyone.

    In completely separate news, that spaceship shot in the teaser is excellent. I’m 99% sure it’s CG, but it took me a while to work it out.

    Anyone reckon we’ll get a full trailer this Friday?

  120. I’ve refrained from commenting on the slag line for ages because I wanted to avoid this exact response/derailing, oops.

    I do have a problem with casual misogyny, but I don’t think the slag line is misogyny, or out of character (because of what I said earlier about being caught in the heat of the moment.)

    For example – if one of my friends does something annoying, I might call them a cunt, in the heat of the moment. The next day, I’ll probably be chatting away with them like normal. I haven’t just participated in casual misanthropy.

    I do think a lot of people are a bit too touchy, but I balk at people who unironically spout vitriol about “third wave feminism” and “pc culture” and the like. They’ve got just as big a stick up their arse as the people who write in to complain about somebody swearing on tv.

    I’m really looking forward to the crit-cop episode of RDXII and the endless lefty vs. righty shouting matches it might set off (or it might not and it might have nothing to do with that.)

    Also “I’ve seen women be offended by it” and “it’s offensive to women” are different things – I know women who are fine with it, it’s cherry picking really. But then you get black people who are fine with white people using the n word (rarely but you do). It’s not a very comprehensive measure of offending-ness. We’d need to poll every woman on the planet about it and see if we get >50%.

    Oh well, I’ll continue having a giggle as the credits roll on Dear Dave and y’all can continue thinking I’m a monster.

    FYI Lister called the crew slags in Polymorph so the word is in his vocabulary

  121. No way would Lister have used that phrase in the early series, or ever before.

    One reason I don’t like the constant slating of BtE is how great a Lister story it is and how brilliant Craig is within it. The Lister you see in BtE is a fully-rounded, mature character (who, granted, irons sneezes, but if he didn’t he wouldn’t still be Lister, living for winding up Rimmer, just like the old days). The Lister from BtE isn’t capable of saying ‘what an absolute slag’, or the stupid ‘Kochanski…sex’ line, which kind of pisses all over his development in BtE. Anyway….

    Anyone who wants to believe the reaction to that line is only due to 21st Century, feminist, PC, SJW ‘bollocks’ etc. etc. needs to open their eyes. It’s at times like this when you realise what a terrible place the internet is for idiots. This is how far right groups make up their numbers…with people who genuinely look at, for example, not being allowed to call a woman a ‘slag’ as having their ‘rights’ taken away….

  122. New teaser, eh? Absolutely fantastic!

  123. The teaser looks great, but I really hate the “Let’s play a familiar melody slowly and on a plunky piano with a lot of reverb to suggest gravitas” trick. Especially when Red Dwarf actually already HAS a version of its theme that is slower and suggests gravitas.

    Looking forward to…well, eventually seeing XII whenever it makes its way onto some platform I can watch in the US.

  124. It’s funny how people who demand the right to say what they want turn into precious snowflakes the moment you swear at them.

  125. G&T Admin

    The downside of new episodes being on their way is that the likes of Better Dead Than Smeg start coming here again.

  126. *Do I think Lister would refer to a woman as a “slag”?
    Well, he did. His characterization has veered wildly over almost 3 decades and this is another example of that. The actor playing him didn’t seem to object to the dialogue.

    Either way; enough of the bullshit about Lister ” probably regretting saying that word afterwards”, please. It’s pathetic. If you’re going to judge characters by a set of values, the evidence begins and ends with that they do onscreen.

    * Should Doug refer to a woman as a “slag” for comic effect in a sitcom script?
    Absolutely not.

    * Could they have swapped it for another word?
    No. The whole point of the “plot”, shit as it is, is that Lister’s hopes are dashed by the realization that the woman was sleeping with someone else. When that’s the twist you’re going for, you’re already in a dodgy area no matter whether you choose to refer to the character with a term.

    *Is it funny?
    No. Like 95% of the episode which precedes it, it’s crap.

  127. G&T Admin

    * Why has this fucking conversation started again, five fucking years later, with six brand new fucking episodes mere fucking weeks away?
    Unknown.

  128. Wasn’t it on John’s list of banned topics?

  129. The teaser looks great, but I really hate the “Let’s play a familiar melody slowly and on a plunky piano with a lot of reverb to suggest gravitas” trick.

    See, now, as much as I hate ubiquitous twee indie girl John Lewis advert cover versions of songs… I now really want to hear someone do it with the RD theme.

  130. It’s funny how people who demand the right to say what they want turn into precious snowflakes the moment you swear at them.

    Nope, that was you. Mr.Strawman.

  131. If we’re tired of discussing the “slag” line, we could always talk about Rimmer’s hackneyed transphobia in the bunkroom scene instead.

  132. No way would Lister have used that phrase in the early series, or ever before.

    Anyone who wants to believe the reaction to that line is only due to 21st Century, feminist, PC, SJW ‘bollocks’ etc. etc. needs to open their eyes. It’s at times like this when you realise what a terrible place the internet is for idiots. This is how far right groups make up their numbers…with people who genuinely look at, for example, not being allowed to call a woman a ‘slag’ as having their ‘rights’ taken away….

    I think you’re the one who needs to ‘open your eyes’. The Internet has helped breed a generation of cry baby, whining, offended at anything hypocrites, and 3rd wave feminism coupled with PC culture has infantilized women and undone everything that women spent the majority of the 50s, 60s, and 70s fighting for. That aside, I’m looking forward to series XII

  133. I’m sorry if I’m coming across as bolshy, but the whole ‘PC culture is stifling honest debate’ argument really winds me up. It’s a lazy, cliched argument that Sun columnists and keyboard warriors have been bashing out since at least the mid 1980s. At best, it’s a flawed defence of people’s right to be offensive to whoever they please, at worst it’s apologism for the worst kinds of bigotry.
    It is not offensive to women
    Pretty sure I’ve read comments from several women on this forum saying that it is in fact, exactly that.
    But I’m sure you know best.

    Yes, I do.
    You’re conflating far right wing politics (including journalism) with an argument based in Liberalism. It has nothing to do with ‘the right to offend whoever you please’ and it isn’t ‘apologism for bigotry’. When PC culture and feminism move towards true equality, I’ll gladly put my name down on the form and sign up, but while we’re still in the land of cry baby, offended at anything, thought-crime censoring hypocrites — I’m out.
    As for the comment about the social landscape of the 80s and ‘keyboard warriors’, do I really have to spell out why that is, to put it politely (after all, it’s not my intention to ‘offend’), utter shit?

  134. >If we’re tired of discussing the “slag” line, we could always talk about Rimmer’s hackneyed transphobia in the bunkroom scene instead.

    Refresh my memory?

  135. G&T Admin

    I think you’re the one who needs to ‘open your eyes’. The Internet has helped breed a generation of cry baby, whining, offended at anything hypocrites, and 3rd wave feminism coupled with PC culture has infantilized women and undone everything that women spent the majority of the 50s, 60s, and 70s fighting for. That aside, I’m looking forward to series XII

    Can you all not see that it’s Better Dead Than Smeg that is the REAL feminist? He’s protecting all you third wavers from ruining your precious feminism with all your silly opinions and being upset at offensive things. He’s a modern day hero!

    Mate, you’re accusing Paul of using straw men arguments while at the same time spouting exact cookie cooker crap you see in every alt-right sub-Reddit these days. Go fuck yourself.

  136. Well at least this hasn’t turned into a discussion about VII and VIII.

  137. >When PC culture and feminism move towards true equality, I’ll gladly put my name down on the form and sign up

    I don’t think you will, to be honest, since they’re already doing that, but it’s not the type of “equality” you want – that is, a type where you don’t have to modify your behaviour or sacrifice anything in any way. You’re happy to pay lip service to the idea of believing that everyone is equal, because it makes you sound like you have righteousness on your side, but you still believe the most important thing is you being able to do and say whatever you want, and if that upsets or offends people, well, that’s their problem, not yours, why should you have to modify your behaviour to account for how other people might react to it or how it relates to historical context of oppression that you have not directly yourself suffered, what kind of crazy empathetic person would do something like that?

  138. If we’re tired of discussing the “slag” line, we could always talk about Rimmer’s hackneyed transphobia in the bunkroom scene instead.

    ‘Bet you anything she’s a man’ – pretty hackneyed yeah, but entirely fitting with his small-minded character (like Alan Partridge’s ‘big, flapping hands like a man’ comment).

    Anyway, I was going to add another female perspective to the ‘slag’ line. I wasn’t offended by it purely because it seems such an outdated term – almost quaint compared to some of the horrific vitriol directed at women online these days. I honestly think that if someone referred to me as such, I’d just laugh in their face at their utter patheticness. So was Doug right to give that word to Lister? Hmm, that’s the bit I’m not so sure about…

  139. >When PC culture and feminism move towards true equality, I’ll gladly put my name down on the form and sign up

    I don’t think you will, to be honest, since they’re already doing that, but it’s not the type of “equality” you want – that is, a type where you don’t have to modify your behaviour or sacrifice anything in any way. You’re happy to pay lip service to the idea of believing that everyone is equal, because it makes you sound like you have righteousness on your side, but you still believe the most important thing is you being able to do and say whatever you want, and if that upsets or offends people, well, that’s their problem, not yours, why should you have to modify your behaviour to account for how other people might react to it or how it relates to historical context of oppression that you have not directly yourself suffered, what kind of crazy empathetic person would do something like that?

    “Mr.Strawman, bring me some straw. Make it the strawest, of all the straws. Etc.”

    Closest thing I could get to an Internet meme for you.

    Seb, I have in no way said, or demonstrated, any of the above. That up there? That’s you – again – projecting. It’s either a meme because you don’t have anything intelligent to say, a string of insults (see also), or you ‘stating things that I am supposed to have said as fact’, all of which I have, in fact, never said.

    Look, olive branch. Let’s draw a line in the sand and see if we can get on, and leave individual politics at the door. I’m not unreasonable, I don’t set out to offend people (unless provoked). I don’t agree with PC culture/censorship of the arts/etc etc, but I’m sure we can talk in a civil way regardless.

  140. I think you’re the one who needs to ‘open your eyes’. The Internet has helped breed a generation of cry baby, whining, offended at anything hypocrites, and 3rd wave feminism coupled with PC culture has infantilized women and undone everything that women spent the majority of the 50s, 60s, and 70s fighting for. That aside, I’m looking forward to series XII

    Can you all not see that it’s Better Dead Than Smeg that is the REAL feminist? He’s protecting all you third wavers from ruining your precious feminism with all your silly opinions and being upset at offensive things. He’s a modern day hero!
    Mate, you’re accusing Paul of using straw men arguments while at the same time spouting exact cookie cooker crap you see in every alt-right sub-Reddit these days. Go fuck yourself.

    Well, I don’t use Reddit and I don’t use forums, so that’s outside of my frame of reference. I’m not repeating anything to you here other than my own thoughts. If it’s just a case of ‘wahhh, wahhh, fuck off, wahhh’ and that’s all that you have to say apart from a bunch of meaningless labels that you want to impress upon me, then by all means keep on proving my point. But every time you do it, I’m going to say ‘yeah, pretty sure I never said any of those things’.

    You don’t know what a straw man argument is, do you. Quick — to Wikipedia!

  141. Oh, give it a fucking rest.

    To coin a phrase, ‘no’. I’m happy to move on, but if someone posts a rebuttal I’ll answer if I have the time.

  142. G&T Admin

    *puts on admin hat*

    Give it a fucking rest.

    *takes off admin hat*

  143. A rebuttal to you getting on your soapbox for no good reason? No, I think we’d rather you just moved on, rather than extended this rather tiresome discussion by quoting people and trying to trigger more antagonism.

  144. I’m unequivocally sorry for saying I liked Dear Dave and starting all of this off.

  145. I like Dear Dave too, incidentally.

  146. G&T Admin

    It is absolutely not your fault, Darrell, but I think that in the next few weeks, while we’ve got so many temporary new friends, us admins are going to have to start being more pro-active about trying to keep things on topic. We obviously don’t want to stop people going off on tangents completely, as some of the best G&T comments ever have been complete nonsense, but when things start to veer so wildly from the topic at hand, we’d politely request that it moves over to the Forum, where people are free to talk about any old shit they want, and it’s easier for everyone else to ignore it if they want to.

    I’d like to reiterate that I’m not blaming anyone for the way this thread has turned out, as this is a policy that we’ve never had before. This thread is now a write-off, but the next time there’s big news, we’re going to try our best to step in when spontaneous off-topic discussions break out and nudge them towards the Forum – there’s always a place for such things here, but it’s just a case of making sure they happen in the right place.

  147. Ian, I think you’re right. I’m happy to hold my hand up in the derailment of the thread here (it was a stressful few days with project deadlines, intense pressure, and very little sleep — sometimes think I need to remember that there’s a time and a place for discussing political views, and the news column here probably isn’t that place). I’m still learning forum etiquette (badly), but I do enjoy reading most people’s reactions to Dwarf related stuff on this site. I’ll stick around (lucky you).

    Humble Pie — eaten for lunch.

  148. I think Mechocracy is the one where the Cat needs glasses.

  149. I’m a bit late to the conversation, but to butt in here as another female perspective : I thought the ‘slag’ line was great. Funny as hell and entirely appropriate to the circumstances.

    If you’re looking for something to get offended over, I’d suggest going back to Entagled, when they re-evolutionise Irene back to being human. And then stare at her …. and continue starting … for a reeeeeeeally long time. Being letched over like that is a deeply uncomfortable experience in real life and watching it on screen had me squirming in my seat. Frankly I was relieved when Lister finally handed her his jacket.

    It’s curious the slag line and Rimmer wanting a hot computer are both seen as issues, when there’s no actual woman there, but the “lol lets get the boys to drool at a vulnerable naked woman without her consent” is apparently completely fine?
    (This also ties in with the many many reasons that I hate Krytie TV with a passion)

  150. I’m a bit late to the conversation, but to butt in here as another female perspective : I thought the ‘slag’ line was great. Funny as hell and entirely appropriate to the circumstances.

    If you’re looking for something to get offended over, I’d suggest going back to Entagled, when they re-evolutionise Irene back to being human. And then stare at her …. and continue starting … for a reeeeeeeally long time. Being letched over like that is a deeply uncomfortable experience in real life and watching it on screen had me squirming in my seat. Frankly I was relieved when Lister finally handed her his jacket.
    It’s curious the slag line and Rimmer wanting a hot computer are both seen as issues, when there’s no actual woman there, but the “lol lets get the boys to drool at a vulnerable naked woman without her consent” is apparently completely fine?
    (This also ties in with the many many reasons that I hate Krytie TV with a passion)

    Yeah, that’s pretty much EXACTLY how my partner reacted, too. I agree.

  151. G&T Admin

    I’m aware of the hypocrisy of me wading in to this conversation at this point, but…

    It’s curious the slag line and Rimmer wanting a hot computer are both seen as issues, when there’s no actual woman there, but the “lol lets get the boys to drool at a vulnerable naked woman without her consent” is apparently completely fine?
    (This also ties in with the many many reasons that I hate Krytie TV with a passion)

    Rest assured that there are plenty of us who don’t think that Irene’s treatment, or indeed Krytie TV, are completely fine. A lot of the same people who complained about the ‘slag’ line (myself included), have also complained about those.

  152. I think Skipper might be the one with Norman Lovett in it.

  153. I see that Taskmaster Series 5 Episode 3 is up today on UKTV Play despite Episode 2 still to air in a few hours.

    So it looks like Red Dwarf will be up before the previous episode has aired this time around.

    Which happened accidentally last time when Krysis went up a day early.

  154. I’m not even wading into the clusterfuck above the below comment, rest assured though that I swore a bit.

    I’m a bit late to the conversation, but to butt in here as another female perspective : I thought the ‘slag’ line was great. Funny as hell and entirely appropriate to the circumstances.

    That has ZERO influence on whether I (or others) find the line offensive or not. Just because you’re a woman, you don’t get to give it the all clear. Plenty of women think feminism is pointless and that woman are already equal – they’re wrong, but they’re entitled to their opinion.

    If you’re looking for something to get offended over,

    Urgh and that’s where you lost me. No, I’m not *looking* for anything to be offended by, I didn’t have to look. THANKS THO.

  155. I think Siliconia is the one where they’re all Kryten.

  156. And N*rman L*vett appears in Star Knot.

  157. And N*rman L*vett appears in Star Knot.

    SPOILERS!

  158. This thread is … troubling. won’t get into it but don’t agree with Millennial culture, either, and I guess I am one? Disagree completely about the ending of Dear Dave, didn’t find it offensive at all. Reading through this lot it’s more offensive having abuse thrown at you for stating your own opinion, but whatever I’ll leave it alone especially with a new trailer out :)

  159. That has ZERO influence on whether I (or others) find the line offensive or not. Just because you’re a woman, you don’t get to give it the all clear. Plenty of women think feminism is pointless and that woman are already equal – they’re wrong, but they’re entitled to their opinion.

    Um. Well I used that phrase to echo CB3’s statement, who had already posted. In all honesty, I hadn’t noticed your post (or your gender) and was replying to the discussion in general.

    In fact, it was the discussion in general that had annoyed me, as it appeared to be a bunch of guys sitting around deciding if a woman would find something offensive or not.

    Urgh and that’s where you lost me. No, I’m not *looking* for anything to be offended by, I didn’t have to look. THANKS THO.

    Well again my statement wasn’t aimed at you, but rather at the guys who might not be aware of a behaviour that often isn’t regarded as troubling, which is a lot more damaging than being called names.

    But hey, thank you for the enlightening welcome to the forum. It’s been truly educational to see how the fandom embraces differering opinions.

  160. I think Cured is the one about a cure for evil.

  161. But which one is about the corporation with an M in its logo? I guess we’ll have to wait until broadcast for that little mystery to unravel itself.

  162. But hey, thank you for the enlightening welcome to the forum. It’s been truly educational to see how the fandom embraces differering opinions.

    Yep. Right there with you.
    At least you didn’t get memed to death. That’s got to count, right?

  163. In fact, it was the discussion in general that had annoyed me, as it appeared to be a bunch of guys sitting around deciding if a woman would find something offensive or not.

    I wasn’t annoyed as such – it’s so nice that you’re all ‘enlightened 21st century guys’ round here! – but I did feel compelled to balance out the discussion a bit. When – and if – true equality for women is achieved, maybe that will be the time to fight our own corner. Hopefully then we’ll also be able to express our opinions without being accused of being anti-feminist…

    Oh, and I really, really loved the teaser trailer by the way (just thought I ought to get back on topic a bit).

  164. I just got done with a post grad and I’m glad it’s over, there were so many social justice ppl trying to tell you what to do and how to behave … It’s not even funny anymore. Funny thing is tho they used to call me a feminist before all of this stuff started but now they think I’m on the other side completely, whatever that is.

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