Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Best Documentary Piece?

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  • #2457
    Andrew
    Participant

    I’m considering putting together some ‘best of’ video things and adding them to my infrequently updated site – http://www.andrewellard.com – and wanted to get a little advice.

    If you were to select one episode section from the full Series I to VIII DVD documentaries (i.e. including the pair on Bodysnatcher) which would you pick? I want to find something accessible, funny, informative, maybe with some vague semblance of technique…just not sure which.

    I seem to remember that the ones we picked for DJ are generally good as stand-alones – Emohawk worked nicely. But any suggestions would be massively welcomed.

Viewing 41 replies - 1 through 41 (of 41 total)
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  • #82924
    pfm
    Participant

    The VII and VIII docos are pretty slick. Probably Tikka or Stoke. Perhaps Only The Good… for VIII.

    #82925
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    I would take anything from the I or II docs. The Better Than Life section (got to be the best collection of rushes) is one of my favourite things ever, let alone favourite Dwarf extra.

    #82927
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Dwarfin’ USA. Probably because it’s just a very interesting subject, had semi-exclusive clips and generated some very candid interviews.

    #82938
    James
    Participant

    I loved the Xtended versions. A lot more comment, and a lot more confusion, but it just added to the overall Rimmer experience. Not only that, Chris asking, was this a comedy show?.

    #82940
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I loved the Xtended versions. A lot more comment, and a lot more confusion, but it just added to the overall Rimmer experience. Not only that, Chris asking, was this a comedy show?.

    James, not to burst your bubble my lovely, but that’s a commentary, not a documentary…!

    #82941
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I have to agree with Uncle Pete (Mum always put paper down!) – Dwarfin’ USA is probably the best documentary across the entire series. Ever.

    #82942
    John Hoare
    Participant

    For me, the best documentary by far is Re-Dwarf. But that probably isn’t that accessible for a general audience, which is needed here, so I’d go with Cappsy – one of the sections from the 1/2 doccos.

    #82943
    TheLeen
    Participant

    I wish I could answer that, but since I watched all of the documentaries pretty much in one go, it’s all a bit of a blur. Really, can’t tell.

    #82944
    Mr Flibble
    Participant

    One of the more candid bits would be good, but might not work without the context. I think Dwarfing USA would be good, but I always liked the way the “Black Wednesday/Thursday etc” bit was done.

    Anything from the Series 1 or 2 Bodysnatcher doccos would be good though. I can’t remember which bit.

    #82945
    Andrew
    Participant

    I think I’m resisting Dwarfing USA because a) it’s awfully long compared to the ten-minute docco chunks, b) it really isn’t especially technically proficient, and c) the limitations are so obvious (no interviews with the American cast and crew, very few clips due to cost issues). I think it’s better for Dwarf fans than for Joe Blow.

    #82946
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I think the EmoHawk one is quite good (if that is the one with the cork explosion) it’s funny, entertaining, and a nice piece of inside info from the world of Dwarf.

    #82947
    James
    Participant

    Wah my bubble has burst! Sorry, i was looking at the wrong post. Series III then. I&II were building and learning, III really got me excited, more location, location.

    #82948
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Much as I love the Series III and IV doccos, I think in retrospect they’re a bit claustrophobic. No rushes footage, no other bits to break up the piece (readthroughs, radio show clips, whatever). Great to watch, as we love the episodes, but not showing the absolute best that the doccos ended up managing to achieve.

    I love the Me2 section of The Beginning – the use of the rushes footage there is hugely inventive.

    #82950
    Phil
    Participant

    I’m avoiding this question because…well…I can’t remember any specific episode segment well enough.

    I really like the documentaries…so much so that I’ll pull a DVD out just to watch one on a boring, rainy day. But as I tend to watch them straight through it’s not easy to remember which anecdotes fall where.

    That said, I don’t think there’s a single episode segment that would do you a dis-service, Andrew. They’re all excellent. John is right about III/IV not being AS excellent (though, without any question, they were phenomenal before we had your later documentaries to judge them against) so I wouldn’t be too worried. The way I see it, you can’t go truly wrong with any of them.

    #82956
    Dave
    Participant

    I will have to re-watch them to comment properly and am curently separated from my DVDs by about 500 miles.

    I will get back to you.

    #82958
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    sorry to digress, but I find it weird to watch the documentaries in 1, 2, 3 etc order. I like to watch them in the order they were made, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 1 and then 2. I’m weird like that but the order seems to work…

    #82960
    pfm
    Participant

    Star Wars should also always be watched in the order the films were made (IV-VI then I-III). And the Narnia books should be read in the order they were written (it’s good to see the movies are being made in that way too). Not that it’s that big a deal. I mean, it’s not as though I make sure I watch Next Generation episodes by production order as opposed to broadcast order or anything…

    #82967
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I think the reason Narnia is being filmed in that order is more to do with the children’s ages (TLTWATW was always going to be filmed first as it’s by far the most well-known) and the fact that A Horse and His Boy is quite possibly unfilmable.

    #82970
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    TLTWATW

    Lol, “TWAT”.

    #83033
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    loltwats. i can has fish tacos?

    #83039
    pfm
    Participant

    Disney are apparently expecting 7 Narnia films in total. Personally what I would do is combine Magician’s Nephew and The Last Battle into one movie about the birth and death of Narnia, cutting most of the mental parts with the stupid ape and donkey. The Horse And His Boy is definitely filmable, it just needs to be changed somewhat so that the Calormen people are shown more as good guys.

    #83044
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Yeah, except people will bitch about deviation from the source material. Because people are stupid on a very fundamental level.

    #83045

    >…the mental parts with the stupid ape and donkey.

    The problem with that is that I’m pretty sure the ape and donkey are supposed to be symbolic–I think they’re some kind of Antichrist symbol. Also, they take up rather a lot of the book, don’t they?

    #83047
    pfm
    Participant

    I know they’re an important part of The Last Battle but I just can’t see that whole episode being included in any movie. It’s far too sledgehammer symbolic, it’s like ‘do not worship a false god or deny God/Aslan/Tash, oh and don’t dress a donkey up like a lion’. The whole thing’s about religion. And then the end where they pass into ‘heaven’ but Susan is not allowed to because she’s a slut. It’s almost unfilmable unless major changes are made.

    #83048
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >And then the end where they pass into ?heaven? but Susan is not allowed to because she?s a slut.

    There’s a really good Neil Gaiman short story called “The Problem of Susan” about that.

    I’ve owned a series of the Narnia books since I was a pre-teen. I’ve never got past book two. I loved The Magician’s Nephew, quite liked TLTWATW (who doesn’t?), but couldn’t get into Prince Caspian and basically just gave up after that.

    #83049

    That’s a pity; I for one quite liked Voyage of the Dawn Treader and The Silver Chair and would recommend them, possibly ‘cos they were less full of sledgehammer-to-the-skull-obvious symbolism and just told an enjoyable story.

    #83050
    pfm
    Participant

    I recently rewatched the BBC Silver Chair adaptation on youtube. A right laugh it is. I hadn’t seen it for at least 10 years, before I even knew who Tom Baker was (he plays Puddleglum the marshwiggle in this!). It will make a great film as long as they multiply everything in it by 10, and maybe have a big battle at the end between the Underworld people and the Narnians, otherwise it’s just too happy and cheesy.

    The way they did Prince Caspian was EXACTLY right.

    #83051
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >The way they did Prince Caspian was EXACTLY right.

    Ie. Acknowledging that very little happens in the story and cramming it into an hour?

    #83052
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Disney are apparently expecting 7 Narnia films in total. Personally what I would do is combine Magician?s Nephew and The Last Battle into one movie about the birth and death of Narnia, cutting most of the mental parts with the stupid ape and donkey. The Horse And His Boy is definitely filmable, it just needs to be changed somewhat so that the Calormen people are shown more as good guys.

    To be fair one of the main protagonist characters in the book is Calormene, so they’re not all like that.

    I know what you mean though. There are a lot of racial elements in the Narnia books that are uncomfortable, particularly nowadays.

    I loved the Narnia books though, and wouldn’t mind picking them up again. I gave all mine away for some reason. Probably as a teenager thinking, “They’re kids books”… like it matters.

    #83087
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    I think you should put up an entirely new peice Andrew made from interview bits we havnt seen. :-)

    #83134
    Andrew
    Participant

    > The Better Than Life section (got to be the best collection of rushes) is one of my favourite things ever, let alone favourite Dwarf extra.

    Just watched this back. It’s one of the funnier sections, in fact, which is good, makes it a little more accessible.

    Not relevant to the audience I’m going for, but I have to admit that it irks me how the WHOLE piece is about the location filming. There’s a perfectly good reason – the studio shoot was wholly unremarkable, and the few bits that could have gone there (stuff about the Obs Dome, say) were needed for other sections – but it still niggles.

    Interesting titbit: Ron Pember had to shoot his scene in the bunkroom the following week due to availability problems on the BTL shooting day.

    #83135
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    was that why it was tagged on at the end?

    or have i completely got that wrong?

    #83139
    Andrew
    Participant

    > or have i completely got that wrong?

    Well, the scene was always written to BE the ending. So, um, yes!

    #83137
    Andrew
    Participant

    Right, I’ve had a look at John’s suggested section, Me2, and while it has some bits I really love – the Italian stuff, and a cute ending – Better Than Life definitely holds up better on its own.

    Interesting Fact 2: We had to drop one Tony Hawks warm-up clip for music clearance reasons. He’d selected a member of the audience and sang into camera for them: “You make me feel, you make me feel – Dave – you make me feel like a natural…yoghurt.”

    Shame.

    Next for consideration: Series VII and VIII.

    #83141
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    Well, the scene was always written to BE the ending. So, um, yes!

    Bugger.

    We had to drop one Tony Hawks warm-up clip for music clearance reasons. He?d selected a member of the audience and sang into camera for them: ?You make me feel, you make me feel – Dave – you make me feel like a natural?yoghurt.?

    I thought that the rules of musical clearance were different when parodies are involved. If they’re not derogatory or defamatory.

    #83142
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I thought that the rules of musical clearance were different when parodies are involved. If they?re not derogatory or defamatory.

    But if you use the actual tune, you still have to pay for it! (And if it’s a ‘biggie’, pay through the nose.)

    It’s not going well today, is it Dan? :-)

    #83145
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    *cries*

    #83146
    Ridley
    Participant

    I thought you could legally use up to 30 seconds of any song that is over a minute in length. Or something like that.

    Can’t you just use the internet method of pointing out who the copyright belongs to and claim fair use? ;)

    #83180
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Interesting titbit: Ron Pember had to shoot his scene in the bunkroom the following week due to availability problems on the BTL shooting day.

    Fantastic. I *love* the fact that there’s still more stuff to find out like this!

    #83184
    pfm
    Participant

    I don’t want to slag off the DVD team but I bet you just couldn’t be fucked with going through the rigmarole of clearing the song as opposed to not wanting to pay for it. I mean, it’s not as though it was part of an episode.

    I imagine something like new Who will get licence to use songs on the DVDs before the episodes are even finalized for broadcast. Take the Scissor Sisters track used in the series 3 finale, for instance. I would have been seriously wanked off if they’d have had to cut that sequence due to not being able to achieve the licence. It’s probably fair easy to clear stuff like that and Britney because they’re just whores. Jack Black had to beg Led Zeppelin to let him use Immigrant Song in School of Rock. They sent them a video of all the kids pleading for them to use it, I think.

    #83185
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I don?t want to slag off the DVD team but I bet you just couldn?t be fucked with going through the rigmarole of clearing the song as opposed to not wanting to pay for it. I mean, it?s not as though it was part of an episode.

    The joy of working with 2entertain was that legal clearances were taken care of by their in-house team. Which makes it a breeze for GNP to process – we just had to allocate the funds from our budget…so long as there WAS money in the budget. But an all-time Aretha Franklin classic, by some pretty major songwriters? There just wasn’t the cash.

    What does being part of an episode have to do with anything? Like they charge less for that?!

    As to the other, yeah, you’re right – TV shows that are likely to get home releases generally try to tie up their clearances at the same time as sorting them out for production. Oddly enough, that didn’t happen with a Tony Hawks warm-up improv in 1987.

Viewing 41 replies - 1 through 41 (of 41 total)
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