Best Documentary Piece?

[Andrew]

I’m considering putting together some ‘best of’ video things and adding them to my infrequently updated site – http://www.andrewellard.com – and wanted to get a little advice.

If you were to select one episode section from the full Series I to VIII DVD documentaries (i.e. including the pair on Bodysnatcher) which would you pick? I want to find something accessible, funny, informative, maybe with some vague semblance of technique…just not sure which.

I seem to remember that the ones we picked for DJ are generally good as stand-alones – Emohawk worked nicely. But any suggestions would be massively welcomed.

Topic

[pfm]

The VII and VIII docos are pretty slick. Probably Tikka or Stoke. Perhaps Only The Good… for VIII.

[Jonathan Capps]

I would take anything from the I or II docs. The Better Than Life section (got to be the best collection of rushes) is one of my favourite things ever, let alone favourite Dwarf extra.

[Pete Part Three]

Dwarfin’ USA. Probably because it’s just a very interesting subject, had semi-exclusive clips and generated some very candid interviews.

[James]

I loved the Xtended versions. A lot more comment, and a lot more confusion, but it just added to the overall Rimmer experience. Not only that, Chris asking, was this a comedy show?.

[Andrew]

> I loved the Xtended versions. A lot more comment, and a lot more confusion, but it just added to the overall Rimmer experience. Not only that, Chris asking, was this a comedy show?.

James, not to burst your bubble my lovely, but that’s a commentary, not a documentary…!

[Ben Paddon]

I have to agree with Uncle Pete (Mum always put paper down!) – Dwarfin’ USA is probably the best documentary across the entire series. Ever.

[John Hoare]

For me, the best documentary by far is Re-Dwarf. But that probably isn’t that accessible for a general audience, which is needed here, so I’d go with Cappsy – one of the sections from the 1/2 doccos.

[TheLeen]

I wish I could answer that, but since I watched all of the documentaries pretty much in one go, it’s all a bit of a blur. Really, can’t tell.

[Mr Flibble]

One of the more candid bits would be good, but might not work without the context. I think Dwarfing USA would be good, but I always liked the way the “Black Wednesday/Thursday etc” bit was done.

Anything from the Series 1 or 2 Bodysnatcher doccos would be good though. I can’t remember which bit.

[Andrew]

I think I’m resisting Dwarfing USA because a) it’s awfully long compared to the ten-minute docco chunks, b) it really isn’t especially technically proficient, and c) the limitations are so obvious (no interviews with the American cast and crew, very few clips due to cost issues). I think it’s better for Dwarf fans than for Joe Blow.

[Danny Stephenson]

I think the EmoHawk one is quite good (if that is the one with the cork explosion) it’s funny, entertaining, and a nice piece of inside info from the world of Dwarf.

[James]

Wah my bubble has burst! Sorry, i was looking at the wrong post. Series III then. I&II were building and learning, III really got me excited, more location, location.

[John Hoare]

Much as I love the Series III and IV doccos, I think in retrospect they’re a bit claustrophobic. No rushes footage, no other bits to break up the piece (readthroughs, radio show clips, whatever). Great to watch, as we love the episodes, but not showing the absolute best that the doccos ended up managing to achieve.

I love the Me² section of The Beginning – the use of the rushes footage there is hugely inventive.

[Phil]

I’m avoiding this question because…well…I can’t remember any specific episode segment well enough.

I really like the documentaries…so much so that I’ll pull a DVD out just to watch one on a boring, rainy day. But as I tend to watch them straight through it’s not easy to remember which anecdotes fall where.

That said, I don’t think there’s a single episode segment that would do you a dis-service, Andrew. They’re all excellent. John is right about III/IV not being AS excellent (though, without any question, they were phenomenal before we had your later documentaries to judge them against) so I wouldn’t be too worried. The way I see it, you can’t go truly wrong with any of them.

[Dave]

I will have to re-watch them to comment properly and am curently separated from my DVDs by about 500 miles.

I will get back to you.

[Danny Stephenson]

sorry to digress, but I find it weird to watch the documentaries in 1, 2, 3 etc order. I like to watch them in the order they were made, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 1 and then 2. I’m weird like that but the order seems to work…

[pfm]

Star Wars should also always be watched in the order the films were made (IV-VI then I-III). And the Narnia books should be read in the order they were written (it’s good to see the movies are being made in that way too). Not that it’s that big a deal. I mean, it’s not as though I make sure I watch Next Generation episodes by production order as opposed to broadcast order or anything…

[Pete Part Three]

I think the reason Narnia is being filmed in that order is more to do with the children’s ages (TLTWATW was always going to be filmed first as it’s by far the most well-known) and the fact that A Horse and His Boy is quite possibly unfilmable.

[Danny Stephenson]

TLTWATW

Lol, “TWAT”.

[Ben Paddon]

loltwats. i can has fish tacos?

[pfm]

Disney are apparently expecting 7 Narnia films in total. Personally what I would do is combine Magician’s Nephew and The Last Battle into one movie about the birth and death of Narnia, cutting most of the mental parts with the stupid ape and donkey. The Horse And His Boy is definitely filmable, it just needs to be changed somewhat so that the Calormen people are shown more as good guys.

[Ben Paddon]

Yeah, except people will bitch about deviation from the source material. Because people are stupid on a very fundamental level.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

>…the mental parts with the stupid ape and donkey.

The problem with that is that I’m pretty sure the ape and donkey are supposed to be symbolic–I think they’re some kind of Antichrist symbol. Also, they take up rather a lot of the book, don’t they?

[pfm]

I know they’re an important part of The Last Battle but I just can’t see that whole episode being included in any movie. It’s far too sledgehammer symbolic, it’s like ‘do not worship a false god or deny God/Aslan/Tash, oh and don’t dress a donkey up like a lion’. The whole thing’s about religion. And then the end where they pass into ‘heaven’ but Susan is not allowed to because she’s a slut. It’s almost unfilmable unless major changes are made.

[Seb Patrick]

>And then the end where they pass into ?heaven? but Susan is not allowed to because she?s a slut.

There’s a really good Neil Gaiman short story called “The Problem of Susan” about that.

I’ve owned a series of the Narnia books since I was a pre-teen. I’ve never got past book two. I loved The Magician’s Nephew, quite liked TLTWATW (who doesn’t?), but couldn’t get into Prince Caspian and basically just gave up after that.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

That’s a pity; I for one quite liked Voyage of the Dawn Treader and The Silver Chair and would recommend them, possibly ‘cos they were less full of sledgehammer-to-the-skull-obvious symbolism and just told an enjoyable story.

[pfm]

I recently rewatched the BBC Silver Chair adaptation on youtube. A right laugh it is. I hadn’t seen it for at least 10 years, before I even knew who Tom Baker was (he plays Puddleglum the marshwiggle in this!). It will make a great film as long as they multiply everything in it by 10, and maybe have a big battle at the end between the Underworld people and the Narnians, otherwise it’s just too happy and cheesy.

The way they did Prince Caspian was EXACTLY right.

[Pete Part Three]

>The way they did Prince Caspian was EXACTLY right.

Ie. Acknowledging that very little happens in the story and cramming it into an hour?

[ChrisM]

Disney are apparently expecting 7 Narnia films in total. Personally what I would do is combine Magician?s Nephew and The Last Battle into one movie about the birth and death of Narnia, cutting most of the mental parts with the stupid ape and donkey. The Horse And His Boy is definitely filmable, it just needs to be changed somewhat so that the Calormen people are shown more as good guys.

To be fair one of the main protagonist characters in the book is Calormene, so they’re not all like that.

I know what you mean though. There are a lot of racial elements in the Narnia books that are uncomfortable, particularly nowadays.

I loved the Narnia books though, and wouldn’t mind picking them up again. I gave all mine away for some reason. Probably as a teenager thinking, “They’re kids books”… like it matters.

[Jonsmad]

I think you should put up an entirely new peice Andrew made from interview bits we havnt seen. :-)

[Andrew]

> The Better Than Life section (got to be the best collection of rushes) is one of my favourite things ever, let alone favourite Dwarf extra.

Just watched this back. It’s one of the funnier sections, in fact, which is good, makes it a little more accessible.

Not relevant to the audience I’m going for, but I have to admit that it irks me how the WHOLE piece is about the location filming. There’s a perfectly good reason – the studio shoot was wholly unremarkable, and the few bits that could have gone there (stuff about the Obs Dome, say) were needed for other sections – but it still niggles.

Interesting titbit: Ron Pember had to shoot his scene in the bunkroom the following week due to availability problems on the BTL shooting day.

[Danny Stephenson]

was that why it was tagged on at the end?

or have i completely got that wrong?

[Andrew]

> or have i completely got that wrong?

Well, the scene was always written to BE the ending. So, um, yes!

[Andrew]

Right, I’ve had a look at John’s suggested section, Me2, and while it has some bits I really love – the Italian stuff, and a cute ending – Better Than Life definitely holds up better on its own.

Interesting Fact 2: We had to drop one Tony Hawks warm-up clip for music clearance reasons. He’d selected a member of the audience and sang into camera for them: “You make me feel, you make me feel – Dave – you make me feel like a natural…yoghurt.”

Shame.

Next for consideration: Series VII and VIII.

[Danny Stephenson]

Well, the scene was always written to BE the ending. So, um, yes!

Bugger.

We had to drop one Tony Hawks warm-up clip for music clearance reasons. He?d selected a member of the audience and sang into camera for them: ?You make me feel, you make me feel – Dave – you make me feel like a natural?yoghurt.?

I thought that the rules of musical clearance were different when parodies are involved. If they’re not derogatory or defamatory.

[Andrew]

> I thought that the rules of musical clearance were different when parodies are involved. If they?re not derogatory or defamatory.

But if you use the actual tune, you still have to pay for it! (And if it’s a ‘biggie’, pay through the nose.)

It’s not going well today, is it Dan? :-)

[Danny Stephenson]

*cries*

[Ridley]

I thought you could legally use up to 30 seconds of any song that is over a minute in length. Or something like that.

Can’t you just use the internet method of pointing out who the copyright belongs to and claim fair use? ;)

[John Hoare]

Interesting titbit: Ron Pember had to shoot his scene in the bunkroom the following week due to availability problems on the BTL shooting day.

Fantastic. I *love* the fact that there’s still more stuff to find out like this!

[pfm]

I don’t want to slag off the DVD team but I bet you just couldn’t be fucked with going through the rigmarole of clearing the song as opposed to not wanting to pay for it. I mean, it’s not as though it was part of an episode.

I imagine something like new Who will get licence to use songs on the DVDs before the episodes are even finalized for broadcast. Take the Scissor Sisters track used in the series 3 finale, for instance. I would have been seriously wanked off if they’d have had to cut that sequence due to not being able to achieve the licence. It’s probably fair easy to clear stuff like that and Britney because they’re just whores. Jack Black had to beg Led Zeppelin to let him use Immigrant Song in School of Rock. They sent them a video of all the kids pleading for them to use it, I think.

[Andrew]

> I don?t want to slag off the DVD team but I bet you just couldn?t be fucked with going through the rigmarole of clearing the song as opposed to not wanting to pay for it. I mean, it?s not as though it was part of an episode.

The joy of working with 2entertain was that legal clearances were taken care of by their in-house team. Which makes it a breeze for GNP to process – we just had to allocate the funds from our budget…so long as there WAS money in the budget. But an all-time Aretha Franklin classic, by some pretty major songwriters? There just wasn’t the cash.

What does being part of an episode have to do with anything? Like they charge less for that?!

As to the other, yeah, you’re right – TV shows that are likely to get home releases generally try to tie up their clearances at the same time as sorting them out for production. Oddly enough, that didn’t happen with a Tony Hawks warm-up improv in 1987.

[Author]

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