Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Ackerman’s eye

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  • #11499
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Here’s something that’s bugged me for a long time.

    In… whatever episode it is where Ackerman has his eye stolen, he pulls off his sunglasses to reveal a patch of black covering his left eye. Now, is this supposed to be some kind of strapless eye-patch, to hide his missing eye, OR is this supposed to be a gaping chasm where his eye should be, and in fact he has not only an artificial eye, but also an artificial cheek and brow?

    Now I write it down, it’s almost certainly a futuristic eye patch, and I probably just misinterpreted it as a child. But I can’t shift the idea from my head that he’s got a quarter of his face missing. What does everyone else think?

    #115095
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Fairly certain it’s just a futuristic eye patch, although that doesn’t really answer the question of why he’d be wearing it UNDER sunglasses.

    #115096
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I was always confused by exactly this. I agree it’s an eyepatch, but yeah, it looks like something far worse. I think the size and shape just really confuses things.

    I actually think something really gross would have been amusing.

    #115097
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I share your complete confusion as I never got it either. And was the effect of the patch/hole added in post? It didn’t look like fabric.

    Proud to say I’ve got no idea what episode this was.

    #115098
    p2p_productions
    Participant

    I’d say, futuristic eyepatch. Or maybe even sophisticated sensor that gives him even greater visual acuity..?

    Ackerman’s personal preference to being eyeless aside, you’d think that in the future, nanobots wouldn’t have much trouble repairing injuries like that (after all, they can bring entire crews back to life despite their desiccated remains having been jettisoned into deep space centuries previously).

    Also, if Kryten’s self-repair system could disassemble / reassemble something as large as Red Dwarf in a matter of hours, what’s the point in having a mining fleet, anyway? But then, Kryten was manufactured after Red Dwarf, so maybe nanos weren’t as sophisticated back when the ship was built (plus they had three million years to break their programming / refine their technique). But then, without nanos, how the hell do you go about building something as gigantic as Red Dwarf to begin with? But then– I’m reading too much into this, aren’t I?

    #115099
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    It’s Only the Good isn’t it?
    Or maybe I just imagined being present and seeing VT of this scene.

    Did I evermention I went to see Only The Good filmed? Last episode of Red Dwarf ever broadcast in front of a liv-

    Oh.

    #115100
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    You’re all being very kind. Couldn’t it just be a very lazy, but rushed attempt to hide his real eye? I mean this is the series of BITR Part 3 and Pete Part 2

    #115101
    Phil
    Participant

    I never knew either, though I leaned more toward “terrible representation of a gaping hole” than “equally terrible representation of an eye patch.”

    The effects in VIII, of all kinds, were really just utter shit, weren’t they? From the rubbery corridors as they shrink in BITR to the FUCKING ATROCIOUS moment where the virus eats the escape pod, or whatever the fuck it’s doing, in Only the Good, the whole thing just looks like garbage.

    #115102
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Couldn’t it just be a very lazy, but rushed attempt to hide his real eye?

    Oh, in the real world it’s definitely this. But in the story, I’m still none the wiser as to what it’s supposed to be.

    #115103
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I love how many people don’t want to admit they know it’s Krytie TV.

    #115104
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I’m of the opinion that it’s supposed to be a gaping hole….but is just a shit effect. Maybe somebody thought it would be funny…..Maybe it’s a gag? Did the audience laugh? If they didn’t, how we supposed to know if it is a gag or not? There should be a little symbol in the corner to let us know which bits are funny!

    #115105
    Phil
    Participant

    Does the script book explain it in a stage direction? I’d check but it’s in a box somewhere.

    #115112
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I just don’t get it. Maybe they had trouble with the effect and had to make it larger and eye-patched shape? It’s weird.

    >I love how many people don’t want to admit they know it’s Krytie TV.

    On my Mum and Dad’s life.

    #115113
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Thing is, right – if it were meant to be a big gaping hole, then how would a simple glass eye (the thing he’s lost) make him look normal? The patch can only be covering up the absence of an eye, in a relatively normal eye socket. Otherwise he’d be complaining about the loss of a startlingly realistic entire eye socket.

    #115114
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    So, it’s a patch then? But why is it CG?

    Did they think we wouldn’t notice due to the godawful studio lighting in VIII?

    #115115
    Phil
    Participant

    >Otherwise he’d be complaining about the loss of a startlingly realistic entire eye socket.

    If he were acting anything like an actual human being with a sense of logic and reality, yes. But if he were, he’d be the only one in that entire batch of episodes.

    #115116
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    Unless they planned for some kind of superb and gross CGI fill in that never happened?

    #115119
    Ridley
    Participant

    I love how many people don’t want to admit they know it’s Krytie TV.

    Well I did, but that may only be because I listened to the Krytie TV DwarfCast last week when “mrpezzer” requested more on series VIII.

    #115121
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    Surely it’s just held on by adhesive, like medical eyepatches they use in hospitals.

    #115123
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >Did the audience laugh? If they didn’t, how we supposed to know if it is a gag or not? There should be a little symbol in the corner to let us know which bits are funny!

    I’d like that. I’d also like extended applause to let me know when I’ve just seen a lazy reference to a past episode or a chronically out of place dance routine.

    #115124
    Carlito
    Participant

    THE APPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL!

    Yeah, I remembered it was Krytie TV. It always bugged me too. When I was younger, I too thought it was supposed to be a big, crappily rendered hole in his face which was ridiculous. I only surmised that because I wondered why there would be a big reveal for just a patch, and a patch that doesn’t even look like a patch anyway.

    The idea that maybe there was supposed to be a lickle CG thrown on top of that patch which never transpired had crossed my mind before too, and could be a good shout.

    #115129
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    I read a bloopers thing where someone was complaining that Ackermans eye (in other scenes/episodes) didnt look glass. Yeah it’s a real shame they didnt poke Graham’s eye out to please fan’s interested in such fine detail.

    #115131
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I always assumed it was meant to be a great big gaping hole. It looked strange (no doubt intentional for comic effect, whether it worked or not) but I assumed the implant must have consisted of the entire eye, lids and surrounding area. The idea it was an eye-patch didn’t even occur to me. If that WAS the intention, I think that again it was rendered in rubbish CG for comedy purposes. I know affects aren’t usually intentionally meant to be rubbish in Red Dwarf, but I think this is an exception.

    Also, if Kryten’s self-repair system could disassemble / reassemble something as large as Red Dwarf in a matter of hours, what’s the point in having a mining fleet, anyway? But then, Kryten was manufactured after Red Dwarf, so maybe nanos weren’t as sophisticated back when the ship was built (plus they had three million years to break their programming / refine their technique).

    Yeah, I don’t think Kryten’s nanobots would have been that sophisticated even in his time. I’d go with the bit I emboldened and add- machine evolution. I.e. if the nanobots can repair other systems, then it makes sense that they’d be able to upgrade each other as well. In all that time* I don’t think they’re the little beasties they used to be, particularly considering their independence.

    Incidentally, I always wondered how Kryten’s self repair system worked when he was crushed into a cube shape considering his nanobots had left at that point. I understand that the real world explanation is that the writers hadn’t decided what had happened to the ship at that rate, but in-world…?

    I remember bringing it up on the official site and Andrew suggested that might have been the point when Kryten became aware that his nanobots were missing. It still doesn’t really explain how he fixed himself though. I suppose it’s possible that the nanobots only formed part of his self repair system, maybe for the finer micro-level fixing.

    *I’m not sure Kryten would have been on-line for the entire three million years. He may have leap-frogged through time by going in stasis or just switching himseolf off for a millennia or so while the girls were in stasis. I think it’s fair to say he’s been active a long time by our standards though.

    #115137
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Right, having taken a hit for the team and gone back and rewatched the scene, it’s pretty clear.

    The “reveal” gag is that he’s missing his glass eye. You don’t know that this is the case – or even that he has a glass eye in the first place – until he takes off his sunglasses. When he does, he reveals that he has an eyepatch on, hiding his empty eye socket. It’s clearly a simple fabric eyepatch, stuck on using spirit gum or suchlike. If it had a string on it, after all, the “reveal” would be ruined.

    That’s it. It’s hiding his missing eye. It’s not meant to be a gaping eye socket, and the patch isn’t CGI. It’s just a patch. I don’t even know why anyone thinks it’s CGI. It’s not.

    And he doesn’t say “Return my detailed model of half of my face”. He says “return my glass eye”. That’s it. He had a glass eye, it’s missing, but because the actor wasn’t also missing an eye, they had him wearing a patch to cover where it could have been. In-story, the simple explanation is obviously that he didn’t want to have his empty eye socket open and exposed.

    #115138
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I don’t buy it! Could you watch it again and give us all a second opinion? Thanks.

    #115139
    John Hoare
    Participant

    I like the bit with the false teeth.

    Sorry.

    #115140
    Ridley
    Participant

    And he doesn’t say “Return my detailed model of half of my face”.

    As you do.

    #115141
    si
    Participant

    >I like the bit with the false teeth.

    >Sorry.

    Bless.

    #115142
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >I don’t even know why anyone thinks it’s CGI. It’s not.

    My deepest apologies. Although in that pic it still looks CGI to me.

    #115145
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >… in that pic it still looks CGI to me.

    Me too. I’m not entirely sure whey. Maybe it’s just the shape, which is also unusual for an eye patch, although probably intentional to hid it behind the glasses. It always had a post production look to me.

    #115146
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >Me too. I’m not entirely sure whey. Maybe it’s just the shape, which is also unusual for an eye patch, although probably intentional to hid it behind the glasses.

    The top left corner of it doesn’t crease with his frown. Definitely looks like an overlay to me.

    #115147
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I just noticed. Hid=hide. Obviously.

    #115150
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Ellard just Tweeted us this:

    http://twitpic.com/8izt67

    Definitely not added in post.

    #115151
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    So why does it look so shit?

    #115152
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    What did you expect a piece of black cloth glued to someone’s face to look like? How could it have looked not shit, in your opinion?

    #115154
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Has Andrew been banned?

    #115156
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    >What did you expect a piece of black cloth glued to someone’s face to look like? How could it have looked not shit, in your opinion?

    Perhaps some Diamantes….the odd rhinesstone or two…anything to make it clear it was an eye patch.

    I’ve been convinced (and am far from the only one so it would seem) that it was a just a crap effect to signify a huge hole in the face. I had also assumed that because it was so crap, it must have been deliberately so in an attempt at having it so crap it was funny. I now see I was wrong all along.

    I wonder what else I’ve taken for granted and got wrong…next you’ll be telling me that Kryten and Lister weren’t lovers!

    #115167
    Ridley
    Participant

    … Was that mole removed in post?

    #115356
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > Did they think we wouldn’t notice due to the godawful studio lighting in VIII?

    PP3 I take back anything bad I’ve ever said about you.

    > And he doesn’t say “Return my detailed model of half of my face”. He says “return my glass eye”. That’s it. He had a glass eye, it’s missing, but because the actor wasn’t also missing an eye

    It’s got less meat on it than a chicken __nugget.

    #116181
    JamesTC
    Participant

    I never realised until now, they mention that he has one eye in the opening scene of BITR2.

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