Asking peoples thoughts

[By Jove its holmes]

Hi gang

I want to get a non-Dwarfer friend into our favourite show – what’s the best episode or episodes to do it with?

Topic

[Tyrell Corporation]

Start them off with Series 6, as it combines more sci-fi adventure elements with the traditional comedy of the earlier series, then slot series 1 and 2 between 3, 4 and 5.

Save 7 and 8 for when they begin smoking PCP in their leisure time.

[Dave]

Yes, if you watch one episode to see how it goes the The End or Psirens are the obvious choices, then if they like it you can watch the rest of I or VI, if they don’t like it you can give them a bludgeoning.

[ChrisM]

Starting with the End is good to set the stage as it were, but make sure they watch another episode too. Any episode with a good mix comedy sci-fi mix, as listed by others above, will do, as long as they get a good cross-section of what the show has to offer.

Reason I’m suggesting this: I saw The End when it first showed, and it actually put me off. I didn’t watch RD again until Marooned. I actually don’t mind The End now, but when I first saw it I thought it was rubbish.

Of course it’s all subjective (they might think it’s brilliant) but I think it’s always good not to judge a show too much by the pilot. If I’d just waited I’d have just given it a chance I would have seen Future Echoes which is up there as one of the greats. (Whether I would have thought that at the time, I’m not sure. I was young and hoping for wooshy space ships. And the idea of a man evolving from cats irritated me. Shame on me.)

[TheLeen]

Well, when Dwarf was shown to ME, the episode I watched first was the first one, followed by the second. Ha ha.

But I really think this is a good idea. Watch “The End” and “Future Echoes” together. The End explains the situation, and Future Echoes shows you all the geeky potential of the show.

It certainly worked for me.

[Tyrell Corporation]

I find the remastered ‘Waiting for God’ an improvement over the original.

Doug Naylor waits outside my door with a shovel.

[Andrew]

The first half of Series III is ideal, I think. Backwards is an easily accessible concept to kick off with, Marooned nails to two lead characters, and it all lets loose in on of the all-time best episodes with Polymorph.

[hummingbird]

My son got into the show last year after he’d seen the Talkie Toaster scene on youtube. He started watching from The End and was hooked immediately (it’s still one of his favourite eps).

I still think it’s the only place to start. They pack so much exposition in that first ep that I think it’s pretty essential. If you start showing someone a later series then you’re going to have to give them a lot of background info – esp character info – before they’ll understand half the gags.

[NitroChrisUK]

>The first half of Series III is ideal, I think. Backwards is an easily accessible concept to kick off with, Marooned nails to two lead characters,

these are the 1st 2 episodes i ever saw and i think that was a perfect starting off point for a someone who didnt know much about red dwarf,then went back and watched them from the start.

[locusceruleus]

>The first half of Series III is ideal, I think.

III was the first series I ever saw, and the first one I showed my gf when I was getting her into it.

Psirens would do the job nicely too though.

[Phil]

Having tried to interest various people over the years in Dwarf, I can say that in my experience, THE END DOES NOT WORK. Even if you do Future Echoes afterward, by that point they’re just smiling politely and waiting for it to end.

(The good thing about The End is that you can summarize it in about 30 seconds…without all the embarrassing moments.)

I’ve had luck with both The Inquisitor and White Hole, probably because there are a lot of good character moments in each, as well as some very good plotting. Each of those tends to get a good reaction from newbies.

I’ll agree with the poster above me about Psirens, though…that’s another potential good’un.

[TheLeen]

Having tried to interest various people over the years in Dwarf, I can say that in my experience, THE END DOES NOT WORK. Even if you do Future Echoes afterward, by that point they?re just smiling politely and waiting for it to end.

You’re obviously doing it WRONG.

I’ve used this unique combination on various occasions and it’s only ever failed me with my mum (who just isn’t into tv comedy. At all.) all other friends of mine found the episodes just lovely.

[Jo]

Clearly Marleen has better friends that Phil does…

[Tyrell Corporation]

Marleen pays her friends to laugh along.

[Seb Patrick]

Kryten. Followed by the rest of II, obviously, but Kryten is a terrific introduction.

[Pete Part Three]

Stick on your favourite episode. If they don’t laugh at the bits you do, disown them. I don’t think you need a thorough understanding of the characters of the setup to be able to find the show funny. The majority of fans didn’t start with The End, they just saw something they liked.

[locusceruleus]

It would be an interesting social experiment to introduce someone to the series with Pete Part 1 & 2.

I’m guessing it would be a hit with the under 10’s.

[Phil]

>Clearly Marleen has better friends that Phil does?

This is fully possible…

>Marleen pays her friends to laugh along.

But I’m going with this.

The first episode I saw was Meltdown, which I remember quite liking at the time. (I had no idea who any of the Dwarfers were, but it didn’t bother me at all, or distract me from great stuff like the Caligula scene, or the Winnie the Pooh sequence.) Afterwards I saw Holoship, and I was hooked from that point on.

A friend of mine sat down to watch Dwarf after he heard me going on about it, and he just happened to catch Holoship. He refused to watch anymore episodes after that. “It’s all sex jokes,” he said.

So…I guess you can never really predict what somebody will get out of a single episode.

[Ben Paddon]

The first episode I remember seeing as a kid was “Emohawk”.

[JamesTC]

Mine was ‘Backwards’ and it is still my favourite today.

[hummingbird]

Backwards was my first ep too.

[Ridley]

Tikka to Ride.

[Tyrell Corporation]

A SERIES 7 NEWBIE, KILL IT WITH FIRE.

[Ridley]

Well the theory is it would avoid “[something in VII] + [not in I through VI] = [pap]”

But with series it’s probably II, III or IV. I seemed to do just fine being introduced with Stoke Me A Clipper though. Depending on your definition of fine.

[Tyrell Corporation]

Kiss your mother with that mouth?

You’ve gone mental.

[Ridley]

Watching Series VII first makes you sensitive and caring in a way most fans aren’t.

[Tyrell Corporation]

I know, I know…

The jaded sod in us all secretly adores VII.

[JamesTC]

I don’t secretly adore Series VII, I do fucking love it, not secretly though.

[Tyrell Corporation]

OH WHY DON’T YOU JUST MARRY IT IF YOU LOVE IT THAT MUCH.

[JamesTC]

Because it is immpossible to marry a TV show. Would have thought that would be obvious.

[peas_and_corn]

I *believe* my first episode was “timeslides”. My friend explained the set up ‘Lister, explosion likks crew, 3 million years, hologram, human cat, robot… that sort of thing’. He then loaned me his VHS’s (which included remastered versions of Series 3, thus me being confused when I got the DVDs) and it went down hill from there. Then I found G&T, and it really went downhill.

Umm, did I mention this was off topic?

[Phil]

>explosion likks crew

That flashback scene was more erotic than I had thought.

[Anonymous]

This thread interests me because I have this dilemma. A very good friend of mine wants to know why Red Dwarf is my all-time favourite comedy and he wants to be introduced.

We share the staples of enjoying good comedy, you know, Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, Monty Python etc, etc and we’ve introduced each other to unfamiliar shows – he got me into Black Books and I reciprocated with Still Game.

I was going to start at the beginning with ‘The End’ but I’m now considering something from my favourite Series, V. Maybe Holoship?

[Tyrell Corporation]

Back To Reality is always worth a chuckle.

[TheLeen]

No. No, no, no.

I keep telling people that The End was my first RD episode, because I KEEP FORGETTING that I actually saw “Back To Reality” some time during the nineties, along with my highschool buddy Moritz. We both thought it was shit.

I forgot all about it and then, one day, in 2004 or so, discovered Red Dwarf anew.

Moritz, to this day, refuses to watch any more Red Dwarf.

Don’t do “Back To Reality”. It relies on the viewer knowing WHO THE FUCK the buggers on the screen actually are.

[Pete Part Three]

>Don?t do ?Back To Reality?. It relies on the viewer knowing WHO THE FUCK the buggers on the screen actually are.

Well, quite. It’s a deconstruction of the series and there’s little point watching unless you’ve seen a fair few episodes.

[hummingbird]

I wouldn’t start at Holoship. Much as I love the ep, it is rather Rimmer-heavy and I think would have limited appeal if you didn’t know the character.

If you’re not going to start at The End then Psirens would be another great place to start, not least because it introduces the characters and the premise of the show so well within the first few minutes.

[Anonymous]

“Well, quite. It?s a deconstruction of the series and there?s little point watching unless you?ve seen a fair few episodes.”

This times a million. BTR is arguably the best Red Dwarf show ever and it works so well because it plays on our constructed archetypes of the principle protagonists. One to be savoured not whored.

As a homage to RD’s 21st birthday I decided to watch “The End” again (Japanese version didn’t get a look in because I had no sake, so I went with the cast commentary version).

I’m confident that it’s strong enough to show to a virgin. And, of course, it sets up EVERYTHING.

Here?s hoping.

[Anonymous]

“I wouldn?t start at Holoship. Much as I love the ep, it is rather Rimmer-heavy and I think would have limited appeal if you didn?t know the character.”

Agreed, and thanks for the advice. I really want this guy to like RD.

I have a lot of trouble with this, “Where to start?” stuff because I started with the pilot in 1988. Truth be told, I didn’t think that much of it but the series did pick up as it matured and had enough to keep me vaguely interested. It was Series II that hooked me.

Oh well. I adore it but sometimes, in comedic waters, a man must steer his own path.

[Ian Symes]

Just to confuse matters further, the first RD ep I saw was… Back To Reality. And I absolutely adored it. But then, I had just turned seven, and I only really liked it because of the man’s funny teeth and hair.

[Tyrell Corporation]

I believe the first Red Dwarf I saw was Quarantine, it was Series V for certain as I had just returned from my first confession and the air date matches.

I wasn’t exactly attentive though, it was late in the evening for me and I was eating a sandwich the size of my face.

[Anonymous]

OK! OK!

Am I just really fucking old?

[Tyrell Corporation]

The sandwich was really nice, it had spicy meat and really green lettuce in it.

A special sandwich for a boy who just confessed his sins to the local priest.

That sounds… just… perverse and awful.

[hummingbird]

> Am I just really fucking old?

Yes. But you’re not the only one ;)

[pfm]

I’m 90% sure the first one I watched was Gunmen (on broadcast) but I didn’t know WHAT it was, and I can’t remember whether I deliberately watched the rest of VI or not.

The best episode to begin with is either The End, Kryten or Backwards. Or Only The Good…

[Carlito]

My first was Holoship and it got me hooked! So I guess that’s not such a bad one to start on. I would probably just work out which episode to show based on who you’re showing it to… what else do they like? Gaggy, laugh-a-minute shows? (VI) Patient enough to give good character comedy a fair chance? (II) Likes a bit of action and sci-fi? (V)

And that’s still pigeon-holing the show too much. I think you can’t go far wrong with Marooned to establish the Lister/Rimmer relationship, and you can just sum up the Cat and Kryten in a couple of words so they are familiar with them for the next episode.

But if they have a short attention span, something a bit punchier, like Polymorph (but don’t expect them to appreciate the CLITORIS scene as much as you do) or perhaps Dimension Jump? Quarantine?

Thing is, a lot of the best shows you have to know the characters to appreciate them. Actually, I’d say start with The End and let them watch it evolve.

[Tarka Dal]

I think you need to do it in short batches. That’s always worked well. A couple of sittings of 2 or 3 episodes. Have Marooned in the second batch. As Andrew says it nails the Lister/Rimmer dynamic, but I think that works even better if you’ve seen it in action a few times before.

I’d probably avoid the first couple of series in the first batch, and pick all from the classic-era. I’ve not got anything against the early series, series 2 is superb throughout, but it just looks worse. The first bite is with the eye and the overall production hasn’t hit it’s stride yet, there’s no Kryten, only a few model shots etc. Mind you it’s worth getting Holly in there, casual fans always seem to be very fond of old Norm. If you’re picking anything from the first two series Kryten or Queeg are probably the best choices. Queeg’s setup up beautiful has some excellent gags and almighty pay-off that anyone can appreciate.

One I wouldn’t have thought off, but that again casual fans seem to remember is Quarentine. I guess it’s the iconic images again. You’ve got a man in a gingham dress talking about the king of the potato people with a penguin glove puppet. What’s not to love? Even my Dad, never really a Dwarf fan, rang me up when he’d ended up watching that one to and started quoting bits at me.

[locusceruleus]

So what do you say if someone you’re introducing the show to asks “Why don’t Lister and the Cat just get in a stasis booth until they get back to Earth”?

I mean besides “Because that would make a fucking boring TV show”.

[Pete Part Three]

Because Lister saw numerous visions from the future that told him he wouldn’t go into Stasis.

[Mister E]

My very, VERY first were Demons & Angels and Back To Reality because my uncle had them on tape when I was a wee lad. Not particularly great episodes to start on but they got me hooked nevertheless.

[Carlito]

It’s amazing when you think about it just how MANY alter-ego-type episodes there have been over the years in Red Dwarf, where you would need to have an appreciation for the characters before you could understand the connotations (humourous or otherwise) of the alter-ego.

Polymorph, DNA, Dimension Jump, Back to Reality, Emohawk, Demons and Angels, Parallel Universe, Gunmen, Out of Time … even elements of the Inquisitor, Krytie TV, Blue… it’s like as soon as the writers had created these fully rounded characters and situations, they suddenly moulded them into a blank canvas, to play around with at will. It’s become the norm to go against the norm.

Fine for fans, not so fine for those who happen upon one of these episodes first. Some are more accessible than others, mind.

[Author]

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