….Comedian found GUILTY of causing offence!

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  • #229793

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    It’s hard to find links of this because the main stream media are a bunch of weak, pathetic, controlled cunts.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/youtuber-count-dankula-found-guilty-of-hate-crime-for-teaching-pet-pug-nazi-salute-a3794926.html

    Johnathan Pie sums it up perfectly imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2bVS40cz0

    He is so right about the lack of comedians and artists not saying anything?! What about Charlie Brooker? After all he dines out on this shit with Black Mirror! Doesn’t anybody have a spine anymore?

    No wonder good comedy is a rarity these days in case they upset some bed-wetter.

    #229795

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    I find it hard to engage with this story because it’s been co-opted by, well, people like you.

    #229796

    bloodteller

    i don’t want to click any link with the words “count dankula” in, to be honest

    #229797

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Ah perhaps I should have mentioned I had never heard of this ‘Count Dankula’ and that I think his video is pathetic as fuck. But the idea he can be convicted of a hate crime for it is proper 1984.

    #229798

    NoFro

    Obviously a shit joke, obviously offensive, obviously not a hate crime.

    #229799

    Dax101

    Johnny Vegas doesn’t deserve this for Timewave.

    #229807

    Ben Saunders

    I find it really hard to care about stories like this when the people being affected always seem like horrible cunts, and then of course what Ian said

    Obviously nobody should be arrested for jokes though, within reason

    #229809

    Taiwan Tony

    I disapprove of Count Dankula making dogs do unironic Nazi salutes, but I will defend on a Red Dwarf forum his right to do it.
    Though I will point out that it definitely isn’t funny, and also that it’s a bit 1970s for fuck’s sake.

    #229810

    Ben Saunders

    What other forums would you do it on? Would you do it on a Doctor Who forum? Would you do it on Reddit? Is there a limit to the popularity of the forum on which you would do it?

    #229817

    Taiwan Tony

    It was just a bastardised version of a quote that is erroneously attributed to Voltaire.

    Bit of autobiographical information, though. G&T is one of only 2 websites I ever post on. The other is Alexei Sayle’s.

    #229819

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “I find it hard to engage with this story because it’s been co-opted by, well, people like you.”

    Can you explain this comment please? Or was it you assumed I championed such a stupid video before I said so otherwise in a post after? I am only championing the freedom of expression to make a joke no matter how tasteless it is.

    #229828

    Dave

    I am a huge defender of freedom of speech, but somehow I think there’s a better hill to die on than sticking up for someone who trains an animal to respond to anti-Semitic slurs and nazi catchphrases because they think it’ll be a daft laugh.

    #229831

    Taiwan Tony

    I’ve just re-read the original post and it sounds like you, perhaps accidentally, likened Jewish people, or those who are offended by anti-Semitism/racism etc., to a bunch of bed-wetters?
    I also think “some bed-wetter” is a phrase you could do without. Especially when attributed to people who might rightfully be morally offended.
    Oppression is, after all, horrible. Insidious, victim-blaming oppression isn’t great either.
    Sounds like you didn’t mean that though. So that’s good!

    #229832

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Of course I didn’t. Just trying to point out people are so easily offended and that offense should some how tip the balance over someone who didn’t find something offensive. Which in turn is one of the reasons comedy is so dire to me these days.

    I doubt Red Dwarf would even get green lite today. Because it took and still takes risks. Take ‘Cured’ for example yes it featured Hitler, but Doug wrote it so at times you could have felt sorry for that Hitler which sounds absurd but it works doesn’t it? It’s because a writer like Doug came up in another era a better era I might add for creativity.

    Imagine pitching that to the BBC Comedy team today? They would close that down so fast wouldn’t they?

    Ricky Gervais summed it up better so perhaps I should have posted his quote in my opening gambit.

    “A man has been convicted in a UK court of making a joke that was deemed “grossly offensive”. If you don’t believe in a person’s right to say things that you might find “grossly offensive”, then you don’t believe in Freedom of Speech.”

    #229833

    Dave

    Yes, I doubt an episode of Red Dwarf that came out six months ago would be made today.

    #229834

    Taiwan Tony

    I like Ricky Gervais, and enjoyed 3 of his first 4 stand up shows. (Not Science.) I read a tweet of his promoting his most recent Humanity tour a few months ago that was something along the lines of “It’s like Hitler giving you AIDS.” Which, to me, seemed very tired and as if he were trying too hard to be offensive. It was strange because he’s usually at pains to explain how politically correct he is. But that’s all off the point.
    My point is that I think there are plenty of “shock” or “offensive” comedians. More so than ever. Because a comedian in the 70s being casually racist, for example, wasn’t doing so to be shocking. They were just trading on stereotypes to get laughs. Comedians being casually racist now are doing so in the sure knowledge that they will be judged for it.
    Also comedy is generally over-saturated now because there’s a mainstream demand for it so there’s a lot of TV friendly comedy everywhere, and, no, you’re probably not going to get many pro-Nazi comedies on the BBC.

    #229835

    Ben Saunders

    I don’t really want to get into the “PC correctness culture” stuff, but I wonder how difficult it would be to make a show on BBC 2 that starred exclusively men, today. Or if just having the computer be a female would be enough. They’re fine on the racial representation front, but I know for a fact panel shows are required to have at least one woman on them every single episode, so I wonder about sitcoms.

    For basically any other show such a stipulation would be absolutely fine, but Dwarf is somewhat of a special case.

    #229836

    Ben Saunders

    Dave aren’t BBC2 and Dwarf has been running for 30 years so I don’t think pointing to the fact that the show is, indeed, being made today, would be helpful in the gender case.

    I was going to ask if there were any XI and XII episodes which didn’t feature women in any capacity but actually now I think about it’s roughly half, if I’m not misremembering.

    #229837

    Ben Saunders

    Gervais does seem to be riding the “offensive is funny” train these days, and that kind of comedy really bores me. I enjoyed Frankie Boyle as much as any other 12 year old boy watching Mock The Week, but I’m over that now.

    #229838

    Taiwan Tony

    Are there any regular female characters in the remake of Porridge?
    I haven’t seen it, obviously.

    I don’t see the problem of the “at least 1 woman per show” ruling. I think it’s a good thing and probably a note for the producers to remind them that women are funny, too.

    #229841

    Pete Part Three

    Gervais’s stand-up shtick is about as amusing as shuffling through Cards Against Humanity and trying to find the most tasteless card, saying it outloud, smirking when people say “Oh, that’s a bit much” and congratulating yourself on your daring.

    If there was some a level of subtext to it, it would at least be worthy. . Instead, it’s riding a level of “I can’t believe he said that” rather than “That’s inherently amusing”.

    > I am only championing the freedom of expression to make a joke no matter how tasteless it is.

    Hitler in Cured is a piss-take of Hitler. No one’s getting offended by that. Teaching a dog to react to racial slurs is attempting to turn shouting racial slurs into performance art. Where’s the irony here? Remove the dog and YouTube from the equation and say this guy is just wandering the streets shouting Nazi nonsense. See how far he gets without being arrested.

    #229842

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “Hitler in Cured is a piss-take of Hitler. No one’s getting offended by that. Teaching a dog to react to racial slurs is attempting to turn shouting racial slurs into performance art. Where’s the irony here? Remove the dog and YouTube from the equation and say this guy is just wandering the streets shouting Nazi nonsense. See how far he gets without being arrested.”

    I never said Hitler wasn’t a piss take I was merely saying that idea that Doug’s writing can almost make you feel sorry for a clone of him is taking a risk. It’s one of the great things about the show. It can go anywhere.

    But yes if you go down the street and start shouting nonsense about Nazis you probably would get collared. But I don’t see what that was to do with a joke a guy played on his girlfriend and then sharing it over 3 million times. People find it funny because it’s a dog. It’s her dog. That is the joke. That is the prank.

    Quite frankly I couldn’t imagine wasting hours training a dog to do Nazis salutes. It’s just insanity. But it was probably in part him thinking he can making money from such a video. Social media makes twats of people.

    But it’s also the court hearing that was an issue and yet not by a complain from anyone. The whole thing stinks. It’s scary.

    #229843

    bloodteller

    in response to one of the posts slightly above, wasn’t ricky gervais’s new standup incredibly transphobic as well? if so, that’s awful

    #229847

    Ben Saunders

    Nothing should be off-limits for comedy, but some people’s definition of “comedy” is really rather questionable

    #229848

    Pete Part Three

    >But I don’t see what that was to do with a joke a guy played on his girlfriend and then sharing it over 3 million times.

    You’re right. Doing it on video to 3 million people is far worse than shouting it in the street to the limited number of people in earshot.

    And which is it, by the way? Is it a prank for his girlfriend or a video for a YouTube audience?

    The prank thing, by the way doesn’t even make any sense.

    “Hey, look love; I teached the dog to react to racial slurs”
    “Gee, I’d better make sure I don’t use any racial slurs in case that dog makes me look like a racist”

    #229849

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “And which is it, by the way? Is it a prank for his girlfriend or a video for a YouTube audience?”

    Who knows. Probably a bit of both in the end? If social media didn’t exist perhaps he still would have shown the dog that anyway.

    Only the Count himself could answer such a question. So I PM’ed him and asked him to come and join in here.

    * Only Joking.

    #229850

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    Can you explain this comment please? Or was it you assumed I championed such a stupid video before I said so otherwise in a post after? I am only championing the freedom of expression to make a joke no matter how tasteless it is.

    Apologies for the delay. What I meant was that I don’t hold much truck with people who complain about “the mainstream media”, or who describe people who take offence with terms such as “bed-wetter”. You’re using the language of the bellend.

    For what it’s worth, the idea of anyone being arrested or punished for a joke makes me queasy, and I am completely against this happening in principle. But as I said, I’ve found it hard to get into the specifics of this case, because it’s been hijacked by some very unsavoury characters.

    #229851

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    I wasn’t describing someone who takes offence as a bedwetter because really everyone one way or another including myself take offence at something at some point. I was using it to describe the reasons I personally find comedy so dire these days.

    I could say bemoaning Thatcher was still alive in 1988 on a podcast which has nothing to do with politics in the first place was the language of a bellend….but I digress.

    And yes the case has been hijacked but so was both sides of Brexit for instance. It happens unfortunately.

    #229852

    Pete Part Three

    >Probably a bit of both in the end?

    See, for that to work; his girlfriend has to be in the video. But she’s not. It’s just a guy saying “gas the Jews?” to a dog for three minutes using an intonation that causes the dog to react.

    The dog appears to be the subject of the joke (really?!) and the target is the girlfriend (who doesn’t appear).

    Or maybe the target is Nazis? Because he’s making light of something Nazis would say, and that’s,er, obviously ripping the piss out of them.

    Or maybe the target is anyone who doesn’t find this amusing? Not because they find it necessarily offensive, but just because it’s a moron trying to get a reaction by saying something toxic repeatedly. Seems like the guy got his wish and made the point he wanted to make. Cuh, you can’t say anything these days! Cuh!

    I don’t think he should be going to jail, but I do think hiding behind “it’s a joke” and “it’s all about context” are a pretty weak defence, when the same thing could be trotted out by Internet trolls when they’ve been hauled into court for abusing people on social media. If you’re going toscrutinise the context of the “joke”, you have to look at the agenda of the person who’s making it.

    Maybe he should leave the satire and irony to people who understand it.

    #229853

    Seb Patrick

    “A man has been convicted in a UK court of making a joke that was deemed “grossly offensive”. If you don’t believe in a person’s right to say things that you might find “grossly offensive”, then you don’t believe in Freedom of Speech.”

    Ricky “You are blocked from following @rickygervais and viewing @rickygervais’s Tweets” Gervais talking about freedom of speech, there.

    #229859

    Dollar Pound

    i agree with symes: he does feel queasy

    #229861

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    I could say bemoaning Thatcher was still alive in 1988 on a podcast which has nothing to do with politics in the first place was the language of a bellend….but I digress.

    I’ve only just remembered what this is in reference to. You realise it was a riff on the Red Dwarf Night intro, right?

    #229869

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “Ricky “You are blocked from following @rickygervais and viewing @rickygervais’s Tweets” Gervais talking about freedom of speech, there.”

    No surprises really. Though with it being via the avenue of social media I have a feeling most of the people were blocked for being trolls or simply being abusive to him.

    “I’ve only just remembered what this is in reference to. You realise it was a riff on the Red Dwarf Night intro, right?”

    That maybe but still, it’s not the sort of thing I welcome when I tuck into a G&T podcast all lubed up and ready to go. Margaret Thatcher on a cold day indeed!

    #229876

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    I have just read this thread and I can’t say I enjoyed it.

    #229877

    Ian Symes

    G&T Admin

    That maybe but still, it’s not the sort of thing I welcome when I tuck into a G&T podcast

    Honestly, you can’t even make a joke these days without some bed-wetter getting offended.

    #229878

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “Honestly, you can’t even make a joke these days without some bed-wetter getting offended.”

    I wasn’t offended by that, it was more of being slightly miffed so to speak. Though however I am offended that you thought I was wholly offended by my previous comment.

    In conclusion, I’m off to change my sheets.

    #229879

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    I wonder what JK Rowling thinks?

    #229880

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “in response to one of the posts slightly above, wasn’t ricky gervais’s new standup incredibly transphobic as well? if so, that’s awful”

    I wonder what JK Rowling thinks?

    #229881

    Dave

    I wonder what JK Simmons thinks.

    #229882

    NoFro

    I wonder what Jay Kay from Jamiroquai thinks.

    #229883

    Dave

    I wonder what Jeff Kay thinks.

    #229884

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    I wonder what Jack Kyle nickname “JK” (Actor, Intolerable Cruelty 2003) thinks?

    *special thanks to imdb

    #229885

    Ben Saunders

    I wonder what John Casey thinks

    #229886

    Nick R

    lol j/k

    #229889

    bloodteller

    i wonder what i think

    #229890

    Ben Saunders

    I could care less

    #229902

    Plastic Percy

    I wonder what the Pink Panther thinks pink?

    #229905

    bloodteller

    i don’t think the pink panther thinks, it’s a diamond isnt it? gems dont have the power of cognitive thought

    #229908

    Ben Saunders

    I wonder what Black Panther thinks

    #229913

    Dave

    I wonder what Panthro thinks.

    #229914

    Ben Paddon

    I think everybody’s right, except me, so just forget I spoke, alright?

    #229917

    Ridley

    I think the joke was done better in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    #229923

    Dave

    I think the joke was done better in ‘Allo’ Allo.

    #229924

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “I wonder what Panthro thinks.”

    I’d love to see a He-Man and Red Dwarf cross over. I wonder what Hans “Dolph” Lundgren thinks?

    #229930

    Flap Jack

    OK, there are a couple of things to keep in mind about this:

    1. Free speech is not an unlimited right. It ends when you use it to infringe upon the rights of others. So if your speech does incite violence, promote bigotry etc., then “it was just a joke” is not a defence. Now, this is obviously a very ambiguous case, so it’s not necessarily absurd to consider the charges unjustified, but you can’t just play “FREE SPEECH THO” as a universal trump card.
    2. As Pete said, the video is not making fun of Nazis, it’s trivialising Nazi behaviour. That’s probably what shifted it into being suspect.
    3. Anyone who makes terrible jokes on the internet should definitely do at least a few months of hard time. I include myself in that.
    #229936

    John Hoare

    G&T Admin

    I have just read some more of this thread and I can’t say I enjoyed it.

    #229937

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    I wonder what Twilight Sparkle thinks?

    #229938

    Ben Saunders

    ….Admin found GUILTY of not enjoying thread!

    #230003

    RamesesNiblickTheThird
    #230006

    Plastic Percy

    Oh look, the point where I finally find something I disagree with Jonathan Pie over.

    #230007

    Warbofrog

    Helpful explanation of how 4chan pricks think and play, if you’re naive like me:

    https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/online-right-launder-ideology/

    I’m more offended by that URL that counts a 1000-word article as a ‘long read.’ It’s the end of civilisation.

    #230008

    Hamish

    > Oh look, the point where I finally find something I disagree with Jonathan Pie over.

    His last few videos have been shite, to be honest.

    #230012

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Jonathan Humble Pie?

    #230013

    Ben Saunders

    Jonathan Eggonhisface

    #230014

    RamesesNiblickTheThird
    #230020

    Warbofrog

    Jonathan Pie with ‘Jonathan in the Sky’

    #230723

    Dave

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43864133

    An £800 fine. Seems pretty reasonable.

    It’s interesting to see him sticking to the defence that people can “say things and their context [can] be completely ignored and then they can be convicted for it”. Because the sheriff addresses the context quite explicitly:

    “A joke can be grossly offensive. A racist joke or a grossly offensive video does not lose its racist or grossly offensive quality merely because the maker asserts he only wanted to get a laugh.”

    It’s a shame he’s become such a ‘free speech’ beacon for comedians like Gervais to rally around.

    #230724

    Ben Saunders

    Oh not this again. I had to leave a discord server because I was sick of reading about this shit. Defenses of it, mostly.

    Good quote from the popo though. I blocked Gervais on Twitter years ago. Now he can say all the shite he likes and it won’t bother me

    #230731

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “A joke can be grossly offensive. A racist joke or a grossly offensive video does not lose its racist or grossly offensive quality merely because the maker asserts he only wanted to get a laugh.”

    Of course, Voter Colonel.

    * still 800 quid towards the security of the royal wedding eh?

    #230732

    Ben Paddon

    “It was only a joke!” is a bullshit argument, and fuck anyone who thinks that makes it okay to say racist, sexist, homophobic or otherwise offensive nonsense.

    #230733

    Plastic Percy

    Freedom of Speech does not mean carte blanche to say whatever you like, to whoever you like, whenever you like. Never has, never will. This fat hipster fuck deserves everything he gets. Shame the one thing he desperately needs, namely an education, won’t be on that list.

    #230736

    Hamish

    So after all that noise, in the end he gets a fine which is less than my brother probably spent on speeding tickets in the past year.

    #230740

    Ben Paddon

    We are guaranteed freedom of speech. We are not guaranteed freedom from the consequence of that speech.

    #230741

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Wow how many account do you have? Yikes.

    #230742

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “We are guaranteed freedom of speech. We are not guaranteed freedom from the consequence of that speech.”

    Offence is subjective even so.

    Some were offended, some found it funny whilst others couldn’t give a shit either way.

    #230743

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    “So after all that noise, in the end he gets a fine which is less than my brother probably spent on speeding tickets in the past year.”

    I assume this was a joke but if it wasn’t I’d say your brother speeding and endangering life is much worst than that video.

    #230744

    cwickham

    so coming up with more puns based on how a word in a Red Dwarf episode title vaguely sounds like something else seems like a pretty great idea right now, doesn’t it

    #230751

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    Gervais hates puns if that helps.

    #230755

    Dave

    “I wish I’d never brought this up now.”

    #230765

    Pete Part Three

    Oh fuck off, you cunt.

    #230766

    Pete Part Three

    That was joke, the way.

    Honest.

    #230767

    Hamish

    > I assume this was a joke but if it wasn’t I’d say your brother speeding and endangering life is much worst than that video.

    I don’t defend his bullshit, just as I don’t defend this twerps.

    #230770

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    > I don’t defend his bullshit, just as I don’t defend this twerps.

    I’m not defending him I’m just saying he should have never been convicted. If he wants to make stupid videos such as this it’s up to him and at most for youtube to deal with him if need be. It’s a dangerous road to go down when offense itself is subjective. He wasn’t inciting hatred any fucking idiot can see that.

    #230772

    Ben Saunders

    Call me when he’s found guilty of causing a laugh

    #230775

    RamesesNiblickTheThird
    #230821

    Ben Paddon

    I’m starting to think RamesesNiblickTheThird is some kind of rogue AI.

    #230872

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    No he’s just a sad case.

    #230873

    Ben Saunders

    I wonder what happened to the first two

    #230934

    Ben Paddon

    The third entry in a trilogy is almost always the weakest, isn’t it?

    #230998

    Katydid

    Y’all having fun over there in Europe?

    #231002

    Ben Saunders

    Not really

    #231030

    Katydid

    That’s a shame. If you want to pop over to America for a barbecue, we have a warmer climate. I’ll bring the Moxie.

    #231044

    Hamish

    Speak for yourself Yankee.

    #231048

    Katydid

    Hang a rain cloud over your head, lobsterback.

    #231049

    Hamish

    Learn a new word everyday.

    #231051

    Katydid

    “Everyday” isn’t a word.

    #231053

    Hamish

    It is a word, but it is an adjective, so I used it wrong apparently.

    #231070

    RamesesNiblickTheThird

    anyone want to try this with a skutter? there will be a bag of chips in it for ya!

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