Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Dear Ganymede Jim, Can You Fix It For Me

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  • #215959

    Somehow, through time and an increasingly fragile memory, I forgot that the original assembly of ‘The End’ on the Bodysnatcher collection had a clean shot of the Red Dwarf end flyover sans credits.

    I NEED that shot as I’m slap-bang in the middle of creating a new HD restoration of ‘The End’ and I was mulling over how I could overlay new credits with the original text and all that nonsense. Now I don’t have to, I can create new credits over a clean shot of the flyover and get the timing and text positions exact.

    Now, would a kind soul be up for Dropboxing me the .VOB straight from the DVD that contains that particular shot? It would be immensely appreciated and I can then lock this project up and unleash it to the world (or a scattering of souls who happen to view this forum).

    I’d have the DVD in my possession, but long ago, the ex got Bodysnatcher, I got a signed 8 x 6 of Chris Barrie in the bath.

    #215960
    #215961
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Was that model shot not included on the Series I DVD as well?

    #215962

    I couldn’t find it anywhere then I just happened to download some of the Bodysnatcher extras from A PERFECTLY LEGAL SITE THAT DEALS WITH THAT SORT OF THING and lo and behold, the fucker was hiding at the end of the most awkward episode of Red Dwarf ever.

    #215963
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I hope you’ll be posting it here.

    The photo of Chris Barrie in the bath, I mean.

    #215964

    The tentative blu-ray artwork for ‘Red Dwarf – Restored’.

    Full-sized image

    #215970

    I also need the opening bars of the I – II theme from Remastered as they are in NAYLORPHONIC STEREO SOUND.

    So, fire up your DVD Decrypter, put it in IFO mode and… y’know, do it.

    #215972
    (deleted)
    Participant

    I was going to do that this weekend funnily enough. You can have my stereo mix too.

    #215973
    Lilly Queen
    Participant

    Here you go. Looking forward to that stereo theme tune as well.

    [link removed]

    #215975
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Not hugely comfortable with direct links to copyrighted material being posted on here. Links to things that fans have made/adapted are fine, but not links to download things that are available on DVD. I’d suggest PTS provides an email address/Twitter handle/something similar, so that the actual file sharing can take place away from our servers.

    #215977

    I was going to suggest that once I’ve bagged the loot, delete the thread before the space-filth turn up.

    By email would be grand – patrickelliot10@gmail.com

    Darrell and Billie, thank you for doing this, it’s a real help.

    Looks like I’m going to have to buy a fucking Region 4 Bodysnatcher eventually, the Region 2 edition is rarer than John Hoare watching an episode of ‘On The Buses’ and not complaining about cuts made to the DVD release.

    #215978
    (deleted)
    Participant

    I’ll get it along to you this weekend, you’ve pre-empted me asking for an off-site contact.

    Also, last time GNP asked G&T to take down copyrighted material it turned me into even more of a cock than I used to be and we wouldn’t want that happening again, except to generate some more sidebar quotes.

    #215980

    Did you go all ‘Star Trek: Axanar’ on GNP?

    #215981
    (deleted)
    Participant

    I’d link to it but to be honest I’m as ashamed as amused. Back then in the early 2000s, in the first few years I had home internet access, I hadn’t really clocked that it wasn’t a faceless punchbag for all of my home life frustrations. I was a bit of an entitled, antagonistic prick generally but the Identity Within takedown incident turned it technicolour.

    I’m still surprised they let me online now to be honest.

    #215982
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    It was so so long ago. There are nothing even remotely approaching hard feelings.

    #215983

    Found it

    I’ve fucked up my chance to get the intro and outro, haven’t I.

    #215984
    (deleted)
    Participant

    I want to type something funny but that’s such a horrible thing to read through. I regret summoning it back up. Burn it with fire.

    #215986

    Sorry for linking to it, now I feel like a right shite.

    I had a LiveJournal around the same time and reading it back, I can really sense who I truly was back then and who I projected to deflect my insecurities and shyness. I projected an egotistical, aloof, opinionated, chronically arseholed little runt who used to whine about people not wanting to be his pal and how dare they not like this fucking amazing dude.

    I’m slightly more reasonable and accommodating now.

    Slightly.

    #215987
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    If you’re not embarrassed by comments you made on the internet more than a decade ago, you’re not doing it right. I cringe hugely at the entitled whiny tone of a lot of my old LiveJournal, and I see old comments from myself on here that annoy me, too.

    (plus ca change etc. etc.)

    #215988
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Jeepers, that thread, though, crikey.

    Hindsight, eh?

    #215990
    (deleted)
    Participant

    It’s quaintly amusing in a cringey way to a certain point (“Will they be utilised on the DVDs? WILL THEY FUCK”), then it carries on getting exponentially depressing. What’s worst in hindsight is that I’m blatantly stirring it up for everyone else as well, and inflaming arguments between other people.

    I’d juxtapose it against what was going on at the time but it’s hardly a story that cries out for more bleakness. What I will say as an observer is that it appeared to me that the aftermath of that whole incident to some extent reset G&T’s mission statement for the better. Unexpectedly divorced from the filesharing/downloadable rarities element that all early-2000s fansites had, it gained even more of an individual personality (breaking from some of its visible influences like SOTCAA), the feature articles got better for it, and the foundations were laid for all the really cool stuff that happened from there on (I was a passive observer by this point as I fucked off for most of a decade out of shame, but I still cheered quietly from the sidelines when the fan film won, the book came out, the BTE commentary mention etc). Loads of the most commendable stuff in G&T’s history wouldn’t have happened if it had gone in the ‘server full of pirated rarities’ direction.

    Too much. There’s too much fucking perspective.

    #215992

    I was expecting a story about you finding out your dad was a nonce or something.

    What the hell have I wrought? I ask for .VOB files and I’ve brought about the official G&T group therapy thread.

    I LOVE YOU ALL.

    #216153

    THE SAME, BUT BETTER.

    #216154
    #216156
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Pete, enlighten me. What’s the process for getting ropey old 1987-era video into a HD-restored state? I mean, I know it’ll never be pin-sharp, etc etc, it’s old video and even if you had the first gen recordings you could only do so much. But what CAN you do to it to upscale it? I’m as interested in the tech specifics of this as I am actually seeing what you’ve done with it.

    #216159

    You’re right in acknowledging it will never be pin-sharp as upscaling to high definition is interpolation by any other name and you’re not uncovering new detail but simply presenting the footage at a resolution of 720 or 1080 but the footage itself is not 720 or 1080 at the point of filming. You can upscale true, progressive 576 line footage and have it come out looking pretty glorious after colour grading and addition of subtle grain as I’ve did with some 35mm shot video that never made it to DVD. But as with many shows like Red Dwarf, the source is 576 interlaced which means when you push that out into 50 progressive frames, the resolution of each frame at the very beginning, before any upscaling trickery, is essentially 288 which is frankly shite.

    Strangely enough, within the entire process, upscaling is the minor stage as you have to overcome the technical limitations of interlaced standard definition video first and I’ve got that, after trial and error, down to a standard process.

    You want to preserve every element of the source video, so you don’t de-noise unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, you don’t convert from interlaced to progressive by halving the potential frame-rate i.e. Remastered and you don’t put your mark on the video creatively which means you colour grade to bring out the best the video can offer, remove green tinge, all that, but you don’t start making choices about colour, overall look etc… because that was down to the director and you follow their lead.

    With Red Dwarf, Series I to VI and VIII were shot and presented at 576i50 and that’s what we saw on the telly so you don’t piss about with that. You push up to 720/1080p50 and through that, you’re halfway to preserving exactly what is on the screen and from there, you can pull as much from that footage as you can.

    But I’m pissing mightily into the wind and face of tradition and conjuring up newly minuted titles and end credits along with a partially stereo-ised soundtrack because frankly, although the show itself comes out nice after upscaling, the titles look like shit but the new titles are accurate down to the kerning and scrolling rate.

    God I’m boring myself now.

    #216169
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    No, this is brilliant. Endlessly fascinating.

    #216175
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Seriously, I love this kind of stuff. What software are you using to do all of this?

    #216203

    You would be shocked at how low-key the process is. 80% of the overall work is completed in VirtualDub, a video application that although is rather limited in terms of editing power, it has some of the best filters out there for processing and most of the work goes through that. It allows me to set up a filter chain and essentially let the program and PC churn through every step of what is needed for every frame in the video.

    A very simplified filter list for an individual frame is as follows.

    – De-interlace
    – Remove chroma noise
    – Crop unused horizontal and vertical space
    – Upscale

    But that’s for one particular type of video. Some shots such as model work aren’t interlaced by virtue of being filmed on 35mm and transferred to video so you have to segment the episode and figure what is interlaced, what is progressive, where the fades are between interlaced and progressive footage and make sure you don’t pull interlaced 50i footage into 25p or vice-versa. Filter chains are different for each type and you end up with a nice piece of A4 paper that details exactly where each transition is, what it is and what filters need applying to it.

    So after a bit of work, you end up with a nice, edge to edge, 50 frames per second, 720 resolution master.

    Then you have your titles to think about. Character overlay, wipes, fades, inserts, everything else that isn’t handled by VirtualDub goes through Adobe After Effects along with colour grading.

    Then there’s audio.

    Then the wrath of the forum.

    #216204

    The titles don’t render very well at 720 resolution due to light border work around the characters so they are rendered at 6x resolution and then scaled back down into the land of normality and it keeps everything very clear and sharp.

    End credits – 5520 x 4320

    #216205
    A Bailey
    Participant

    Well that certainly is a 24 million pixel image of some names.

    Random maths: in that size image you could store every frame from 2.3 seconds of interlaced SD footage.

    #216208

    So, you have your broadcast.

    And then there’s me, taking liberties.

    The ‘Restored’ project is gonna use the approximate colour grading of the Remastered episodes but that’s where the similarity ends. There’s no edits, changes to SFX and audio and the end titles are overhauled and rendered in high definition but they emulate the originals pretty much beat for beat.

    Broadcast – 576i50

    Restored – 720p50

    #216209
    Jimboid
    Participant

    Do you not think it makes the ocean grey look a bit too military grey?

    #216210

    More Montague Grey.

    #216213
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Is Chris wearing a wig?

    #216216

    THE PROJECT IS CANCELLED.

    #216247
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    It’s like the movie all over again.

    #216264
    McAleeCh
    Participant

    Question for <i>The End</i> specifically:

    I know you’ve taken the clean end titles shot from <i>The End: The Original Assembly</i> on the Bodysnatcher DVD. I haven’t watched this in ages – need to dig it back out from my shelf – so forgive me if this question is a load of rubbish.

    I know that the ‘new’ scenes (compared to the broadcast episode) in <i>The Original Assembly</i> were sourced from the original shooting tapes. My question is – for any of the scenes which still exist in the episode as-broadcast, were they just dropped into the episode as-is from the broadcast version or recut directly from the original shooting tapes as with the ‘new’ scenes? If the latter, wouldn’t it theoretically be possible to get slightly better picture quality by using footage from <i>The Original Assembly</i> wherever appropriate, saving on a tape generation or three?

    I know that the ‘new’ scenes didn’t have any kind of final sound mix or anything, so presumably any existing scenes cribbed directly from the shooting tapes probably wouldn’t either, but for the scenes which exist in both it should be possible to marry up the broadcast audio with <i>The Original Assembly</i>’s footage. Some scenes – such as the “everybody’s Dead Dave” sequence – would surely have to have been cribbed from the original tapes so that the intercuts with footage of Holly wouldn’t be presentl, as he was still just a voice-over part when those were shot, wasn’t he? (This would, of course, make the editing job a little more involved, as you’d have to cut back to the broadcast footage at the appropriate point for any of Holly’s drop-ins).

    In fact, thinking about it, providing the cutting was carefully matched to the original, the above process also be used to raise the quality of some scenes in other episodes which appear in extended form in the Deleted Scenes (e.g. <i>Me²</i>’s double-Rimmer cinema scene, for another Series I example).

    …I’ve probably wasted a load of words describing something which would have been fairly easy to check if I had my Bodysnatcher Collection DVD to hand at present. Hopefully it all makes sense, anyway!

    #216265
    McAleeCh
    Participant

    …Balls. Didn’t realise I couldn’t use italics and the edit function seems to be on the blink. Apologies – hope the above post is still readable regardless.

    #216275

    Having had a gander at the broadcast and assembly cuts side by side, there’s sod all notable difference and very little I could take from the assembly to implant into the broadcast. DVD compression punches the life out of the image regardless on both versions so any sort of improvement to the image through getting closer to the first generation tape is squandered and trying to sync it all up would be a fucking nightmare for zero gain.

    The look of the broadcast tape is wonderful in my eyes. It’s of its time, it’s classic BBC Manchester and when you pull back the ‘yellow-tan’ tone during colour grading, suddenly the skin tones become very natural, the set pops into life and it looks rather vibrant and almost like watching it all over again.

    #216344

    The End – Hollister’s Eulogy – 1st Draft

    This is the initial test for ‘The End’. It conforms to the final resolution and is approximately where I want it to be in terms of colour but some scenes will have to be dialled back or they end up too saturated.

    It plays at 1280 x 720 and 50 FPS. It’s essentially like watching the Remastered episodes but without widescreen cropping, changes to effects and edits.

    You’ll also notice a fair amount of compression artefacts in the video itself. These are not from me. I’ve encoded this video in H.264 and when done right, you cannot see any compression artefacts when utilising a modern video codec like H.264. What you’re seeing is the DVD MPEG-2 compression just ripping fine detail out of the image and leaving horrible blocking and noise. When you’re putting six 30 minute interlaced episodes onto one DVD circa 2002, you’re gonna end up with harsh compression.

    It’s so evident that I’m seriously considering transferring my VHS copy of Series I and working from that.

    #216350
    (deleted)
    Participant

    The DVD compression is fairly poor on the first four series. They really needed some of the transfer/cleanup/encoding technology later invented for the Doctor Who range. Ed Bye’s tape-bouncing antics fighting with MPEG compression is never going to look good without a bit of cosmetic surgery in the middle, but it wasn’t really there when they came out.

    V and VI were restored slightly better for release and you can tell, although VI has a slightly reduced picture area due to some noise/fault blanking at the bottom.

    Incidentally, UKTV are using their own remasters and they look significantly better – watching series 2 on Dave HD was leaps ahead of the DVD.

    #216352

    The Series III DVD is a riot. The sets, lighting and overall look was already pushing the cameras and technology available at BBC Manchester to its limits, so whack on a few tape generations, encode it all 13 years later via MPEG-2 using an already well-used broadcast tape and smush three hours worth onto a single DVD and you have compression central.

    Boy, what I could do with new, lossless, time-base corrected captures of the broadcast tapes, six months solid work and the maximum bitrate settings for blu-ray to send it out in.

    #216727

    Three separate and entirely incompatible typefaces. This is what the end of the world looks like.

    First draft of course, I’m still figuring out the blue gradient that isn’t a gradient effect streaming away from PJP.

    Full-sized link

    #216780
    Jawscvmcdia
    Blocked

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    #216782

    Fucking ruined this thread.

    #219867
    RickLee84
    Participant

    Any more updates or is this officially dead?

    #219925

    Still on the cards and essentially complete but I’m looking at procuring non-VHS, non-DVD, non-off-air recordings so I can utilise copies without compression or station idents.

    If someone knows of tapes that may have fell off the back of a BBC Manchester lorry, do get in touch.

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