Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Digital Spy: Should Red Dwarf Return Again?

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  • #3380
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    Warning: Digital Spy don’t really think what we’re thinking…

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a152666/should-red-dwarf-return-again.html

    Although most of the comments left by readers seem more positive. But that’s always the way with these things is it not. Websites and magazines write negative reviews and slate everything under the sun, just to make sure something punchy and controversial is there for people to read… it’s pathetic really…

    #97112
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    I didn`t think it was as bad as all that; the review advocates more, with changes. If i`m not mistaken it`s not too far removed from the general opinion, although put in harsher terms than is warranted.

    It would be a shame not to give the franchise one last shot at a regular return, before Cat is tongue tied by a Zimmer frame or Lister needs a Scutter to iron his shirts (with the help of his nasal fluids). Red Dwarf still has a fantastic and energetic cast at its disposal, a cracking premise and a large and loyal fanbase. Big changes would have to be made though.(…) Even a small, off-duty Czechoslovakian traffic warden could probably construct wittier banter. Otherwise, it’s smegging time to let go of the white dove and mutter ‘time to die’…

    I take this as something of a good sign, in that even though a lot of fans are troubled by parts of it, or even quite large bits of it(week is not even out and we have two fan edits and a laugh track) and they *still* want to see it succeed.

    #97114
    NoFro
    Participant

    Though one of the fan edits and the laughter track video was done by someone who didn’t believe the show needed to be shorter or have a laughter track.

    #97115
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    I personally don’t see this desperate need for laughter… it’s as if people are clinging on desperatley to every part of the 90’s sitcom forumla and expecting Dwarf to replicate it, rather than move on with the rest of television in this decade.

    I agree with the writing element, and that it may be wise to take a Doctor Who approach. Bring in other writers and have Doug there to help with the series ark, but other than that the look and audable feel of the specials I felt was merely the next step in Red Dwarf’s evolution.

    #97119
    Richey
    Participant

    > I personally don?t see this desperate need for laughter

    How about because comedy should be funny?

    > it?s as if people are clinging on desperatley to every part of the 90?s sitcom forumla and expecting Dwarf to replicate it, rather than move on with the rest of television in this decade.

    There’s plenty of funny TV in this decade. TV comedies, instead of sitcoms. So there’s no reason at all that Red Dwarf can’t remain funny. Other than the fact Doug can’t seem to write decent jokes anymore.

    I agree that any future Dwarf should have Doug as master over the plots, but new writers in to write the comedy and make the show funny again. Cos whether it’s more sci-fi or more drama that’s brought in, Red Dwarf is essentially a comedy show and always has been. Hence people’s ‘desperate need for laughter’. Not that unreasonable a demand from a comedy show.

    #97120
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    Okay you’ve took that out of context… by laughter, I meant laughter track.

    #97121
    Richey
    Participant

    > Okay you?ve took that out of context? by laughter, I meant laughter track.

    Ooooooooooooh! Well, in that case I’ll simply reiterate my position on laughter track/live audience comedy. I like it, it’s fun and perfectly acceptable in modern comedy. But it’s not essential. Not if the material is ball-bustingly funny on its own. Spaced always made me laugh and still does – and that has no laughter track, nor does it need one. Quality material, then, is more important than a laughter track. If it’s funny enough, you’re your own laughter track :)

    #97124
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    Exactly, if the writing is of a good standard, then surely you don’t need that psychological blanket of built in laughter. Many sitcoms in my opinion have worked purely because you laugh and the laughter, and not at the material.

    If they sort it out and use the Who formula, then it could ‘possibly’ be the best series to date [ironically said in BtE]. In which case a dated track would no longer be required.

    #97127
    Richey
    Participant

    > If they sort it out and use the Who formula, then it could ?possibly? be the best series to date [ironically said in BtE]. In which case a dated track would no longer be required.

    But better jokes WOULD be required. Hence the challenge as far as Doug is concerned. He’s just not written anything that funny – in my opinion – for ages.

    #97128
    Phil
    Participant

    >a lot of fans are troubled by parts of it, or even quite large bits of it(week is not even out and we have two fan edits and a laugh track) and they *still* want to see it succeed.

    Right. I’d love for it to succeed. And I’m very glad for Dave (and the show’s crew, obviously) for its hugely fucking impressive ratings. But I think Doug is really going to have to choose a direction and stick with it. If he wants to slap the crew around with rakes and make them do silly dances, that’s fine. If he wants to go the more dramatic route with character-based humor, that’s fine too. (And that’s definitely what I’d suggest.)

    For those of us with the more negative reactions, I think it’s this “trying to serve two masters thing” that’s at the core of our opinions. Doug needed more time to tell this story? Good. I believe him. That’s when it’s time to abandon the knockabout stuff and tell the story.

    I WANT Red Dwarf to work. The new direction doesn’t scare me, but the desire to drag extended slapstick sequences along for the ride DOES.

    #97130
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    As much as it’s not approved of around here, I personally think the last Dwarf-eske episode he wrote was probably Cassandra. Was mostly the original crew, in a typical setting. Plus it used a theory of pre-determination that only Red Dwarf can handle properly.

    *waits for a dozen people to chase him with pitchforks*

    #97131
    Richey
    Participant

    > I personally think the last Dwarf-eske episode he wrote was probably Cassandra. Was mostly the original crew, in a typical setting. Plus it used a theory of pre-determination that only Red Dwarf can handle properly.

    Agreed. Just wasn’t funny though. Get the funnies back and I’m on board for more Dwarf with dramatic plots and further sci-fi concepts. Just GET THE FARKIN’ JOKES BACK!! :P

    #97134
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    It still had its moments. Was the one episode to explore the Rimmer/Kochanski relationship, which was a typical Rimmer scene. It had a hint of wall breaking via Kryten reading the mission directive. Oh and of course a retro Dwarf opening bunk scene between Lister and Holly, and then Lister and Rimmer.

    But I agree, the other half of the script was based on slap stick comedy which doesn’t work in Dwarf when it’s used so heavily. The whole whacking Lister with the fire axe, huddling around Rimmer to get him out, etc. Didn’t really work.

    > I WANT Red Dwarf to work. The new direction doesn?t scare me, but the desire to drag extended slapstick sequences along for the ride DOES.

    Agreed. I loved some of the more dramatic moments in Back to Earth. Especially the relationship ark between Lister and Kochanski [who in my opinion was Chloe and not Kochanski, but the credits say otherwise]. But then when you think the most emotional scene in the trilogy was preluded by Kryten smacked in the face with rakes… hmm, doesn’t really work!

    #97138
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    As much as I loved BTE, and although I probably laughed in a few more places than Rawson-Jones did, I don’t hugely disagree with most of what he’s saying, there.

    #97142
    NoFro
    Participant

    >Agreed. I loved some of the more dramatic moments in Back to Earth. Especially the relationship ark between Lister and Kochanski [who in my opinion was Chloe and not Kochanski, but the credits say otherwise].

    This confused me on the first viewing but it seemed that when Lister believed they were fictional characters played by actors, Chloe appeared to be his best shot. Upon his realisation that it was a hallucination he was able to get Kochanski… but if this was really a hallucination where he would be happy, shouldn’t he have been able to get Kochanski there all along?

    #97144
    littlesmegger
    Participant

    Yeah but I guess looking at it that way, most films and programmes would be 10 minutes long… they’ve always took you the long way around with plots haven’t they :P

    #97149
    ChrisM
    Participant

    The lady he met at the end was Kochanski, not Chloe Anette. Or more accurately, his fantasy Kochanski. Bear in mind he knew at that point that it was an illusory world so he could sculpt it how he wished, hence Kochanski.

    That means he either turned the Chloe of that world into Kochanski, or there are two women who look alike, Chloe and Kochanski. I think I’d go with the latter.

    #97171
    Nakrophile
    Participant

    > This confused me on the first viewing but it seemed that when Lister believed they were fictional characters played by actors, Chloe appeared to be his best shot. Upon his realisation that it was a hallucination he was able to get Kochanski? but if this was really a hallucination where he would be happy, shouldn?t he have been able to get Kochanski there all along?

    That’s what I assumed would happen at first, as when he was reading that magazine with Chloe’s interview he still thought she was dead. Later when Kochakski appeared he knew it wasn’t real and he also knew she was still alive, thus it was Kochanksi he imagined.

    #97181
    hummingbird
    Participant

    But I think Doug is really going to have to choose a direction and stick with it. If he wants to slap the crew around with rakes and make them do silly dances, that?s fine. If he wants to go the more dramatic route with character-based humor, that?s fine too. (And that?s definitely what I?d suggest.)

    For those of us with the more negative reactions, I think it?s this ?trying to serve two masters thing? that?s at the core of our opinions. Doug needed more time to tell this story? Good. I believe him. That?s when it?s time to abandon the knockabout stuff and tell the story.

    I WANT Red Dwarf to work. The new direction doesn?t scare me, but the desire to drag extended slapstick sequences along for the ride DOES.

    This, absolutely. Character-based humour within a sci-fi/drama is the way to go.
    The slapstick in part 3 of BtE was, frankly, tedious, and the only part that I actively dislike.
    I’d like to see Doug write more along the lines of BtE and, say, Tikka.

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