Doctor Who – Series 5 – Broadcast Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

[Jonathan Capps]

As the old thread is getting dangerously close to paginating and we’re now into the broadcast of series 5, let’s start afresh.

I think the best rules for this thread would be to ban all known spoilers for future episodes and keep it to discussion of episodes that have already aired in the UK, information released through official channels and good old fashioned speculation.

So, GO.

Topic

[Muzzy]

> If only they had a time travelling device hanging around somewhere….

> Oh.

> ;)

Wait. No. This has blown my mind. Surely if the Doctor could travel back in time and land on Skaro at a point when it hadn’t been blown up then the Daleks living on Skaro at that point in time would still be flying around invading God knows where and generally causing havock. And yet the Doctor is always still surprised when he encounters them, suggesting Skaro and the Daleks no longer exist at any point in time. So surely what you suggest isn’t possible?

Maybe :S

Is there something I haven’t thought of?

[Ben Paddon]

The Daleks are very much a part of the Doctor’s own personal timeline, and it’s already been clearly established that he can’t cross his own timeline.

But then that doesn’t explain River Song.

Ow. My head.

[Tarka Dal]

Um have we officially decamped the Who talk from the G&T forum now?

Only, y’know… THE TIME OF ANGELS. Possibly the most un-Tottenham thing in exsistence. Completely non-non-non-non-non-hotspur

[ori-STUDFARM]

T’was good and I enjoyed it.

’twasn’t the best ever tho’

[Tarka Dal]

I honestly hand on heart think it’s up there. So many great lines, moments, looks, reactions, ideas. Absolutely everything I hoped the Moffat Era would deliver.

[Pete Part Three]

It was very good and nicely sets up part 2 with some interesting questions, but it wasn’t perfect.

I disliked the Angels murdering people. The idea of transporting them to the past and living off the potential energy of their unlived days was such an elegant, novel idea. Snapping people’s necks, in comparison, is a bit boring.

On a similar note, wasn’t keen on the “image of an Angel becomes an Angel”, mainly because it’s just seems like an unnecessary extra attribute. Ditto the Angel escaping the TV. This sort of thing would have worked perfectly well for another, original, monster. Well, just as long as it’s not a remake of The Idiot’s Lantern.

Oh, and River Song annoys me. But that wasn’t a surprise.

[ChrisM]

Yeah it was good.

Spoilers ahead:

I have mixed feelings about the extra powers the angels have developed though. The ‘image of an angel becomes an angel’ thing was brilliant in it’s creepiness. Genuinely quite scary.

That whole ‘doorways of the soul’ thing though… I’m not so sure. On one hand it adds a bit of extra menace, i.e. to stay safe from these things you have to keep looking at them, but if you look in their eyes (which in the circumstances is probably the most natural thing to do) they still might get you through the back door, so to speak. However it just wasn’t an issue in Blink! at all! Sure, the ‘image’ thing wasn’t either, but then the situation never cropped up, so that still fits. There probably would have been plenty of eyeballing going on though.

I guess that could be explained two ways:
1. the angels in Blink! as scavengers were under-powered, and the one on the ship was in it’s prime, having had time to soak up so much radioactive nourishment.

2. Maybe the characters just didn’t look at them in the eyes so long. From what I remember there was plenty of staring though.

And then there’s the ‘feeding on destiny’ concept in Blink! that was quite unique. That was explained okay in this episode (and what a creepy grotesque explanation that was) but it’s kind of been done before with the shadow beings in the library episode. It’s a shame they didn’t do something interesting with the angels established power. Sure that would have been a bit of repetition of Blink! but it would have kept things consistent and could have still be utilised in an interesting way for this situation I think. And radiation as nourishment is a far cry from destinies, I’d think, unless it just feeds different things in the angels. They might still do something with it next episode though.

I’m probably nitpicking though. The overall episode was great, and creepy, and I liked the two head/one head twist. I actually thought it strange why two headed beings would create lots of one headed statues. My mind didn’t take that extra step though. I thought maybe they were statues created from the later human colonists rather than the natives (although I didn’t quit buy it)… so that extra loop was brilliant.

[ChrisM]

Okay, looking back I realise I repeated what Pete said pretty much. (Sorry I didn’t notice his post. Surely I didn’t take 20 minutes typing mine and it slipped in the background?) As I said, I really did like the ‘image’ power though. And River Song is a lovely saucy minx.

[Danny Stephenson]

Mike Skinner making a random appearance in Doctor Who… huh?

[Jonathan Capps]

After feedback from his friends, Skinner turned in a performance that was thankfully free of mugging.

[Pete Part Three]

That was a bit…odd.

[Danny Stephenson]

So it wasn’t just me, then. it WAS strange that he was in it?

[pfm]

It wasn’t really ‘strange’ as such. Though Mike’s appearance obviously happened because it was Adam Smith directing the episode (he directed various Streets videos, like Blinded By The Lights, which the opening of the ep kind of referenced) it’s just a small part, it’s not that jarring.

The pre-credits sequence was brilliant IMO, the kind of setup the RTD series’ tried to do on a number of different occasions and never quite got right but this time it was bang on. It felt exciting and it had a real scale to it. The whole ep did.

While a few things didn’t sit well with me (the Angel ‘speaking’ to the Doctor through the dead soldiers, and yes the snapping of the necks, though I don’t reckon that will be the full story, we never actually saw their bodies) this is probably the best first part of a 2-parter since The Impossible Planet (yep I rate it above Human Nature).

One thing…the supposed ‘scary’ part with the image of the Angel was slightly marred for me by the fact that all I could think of was how beautiful Karen Gillan looked! When she was looking straight down the lens I think I actually died for a moment there…ohhh come to me, and YES in that red jumper! ahem.

[Danny Stephenson]

I’ve just seen a lineup commercial on the BBC involving a cartoon Graham Norton being chased by a cartoon dalek. Does anyone know if that existed before the banner fiasco or in light of it?

[Pete Part Three]

>The pre-credits sequence was brilliant IMO

Pound for pound, the best five minutes of Doctor Who for ages.

[Ridley]

I’ve just seen a lineup commercial on the BBC involving a cartoon Graham Norton being chased by a cartoon dalek. Does anyone know if that existed before the banner fiasco or in light of it?

Before.

[pfm]

They should just go ahead and cast Graham in a series 6 episode, he’s obviously so desperate to get on Who. :P

[Pete Part Three]

Wow. Just watched this. Very strange stuff but rather good. In two minds about it, really. The Angels stuff underwhelmed me (what has happened to their powers of time displacement, dammit? and, most irritating of all, WHY can’t they attack Amy when she has her eyes closed?).

But then, that bloody big crack appeared and it took the story in a completely different direction. Madness. To be honest, with the way Moffat totally rewrote the angels as neck-snapping aliens with a bunch of new powers, it seemed a bit pointless bringing them back at all. Especially since they were suddenly sidelined.

I didn’t like the final scene; Amy pouncing on the Doctor. I get WHY she’s doing it, but it makes her seem a little too needy and vulnerable. And also a bit of a bitch to Rory. When Rose and the Doctor hinted at romance, it was “love”, this was just a quick shag before her wedding. Seemed off.

I guess we’re supposed to think that River will murder the Doctor at some point. Although since we still haven’t seen River meet the Doctor for the first time (and, presumably won’t be this series), it’s unlikely that we’ll get a proper explanation anytime soon.

Intriguing stuff about Amy’s true time. The manner in which it was revealed means that everyone is right to be bloody confused. Which is nice. Accidental placement of the 1990 ID badge, my arse…

Not really looking forward to Vampires in Venice to be honest. Looks distinctly filler. More interested in Simon Nye’s episode the week after.

[Carlito]

> most irritating of all, WHY can’t they attack Amy when she has her eyes closed?

Well, I thought it was a nice little angle… monsters that attack you when you’re not watching them, coupled with a person who literally cannot open their eyes or they will die… I thought that was a great idea that didn’t actually end up going anywhere.

The teleport was jarring and annoying. Almost makes me want to use the dreaded DEM phrase…

As for WHY they didn’t attack Amy when her eyes were closed… there was an explanation although it wasn’t great. They were too preoccupied with the time crack to pay close enough attention to her; they just assumed, in their haste, that she could see as usual. Suspension of disbelief in full force there.

Although this series so far has left me underwhelmed most of the time, I am enjoying the detail and intrigue put into the story arc, and this two parter was just brilliant. And I still haven’t gotten to Blink or Silence In The Library yet, so I’m guessing I will appreciate it even more when I have caught up with the Angels/River Song backstories.

[Andrew]

> The teleport was jarring and annoying. Almost makes me want to use the dreaded DEM phrase…

Yeah, if only River and the Doctor had discussed her attempts to set up the teleporter in advance of that escape. Then it wouldn’t be remotely DEM-ish.

OH WAIT THEY DID.

> Not really looking forward to Vampires in Venice to be honest. Looks distinctly filler. More interested in Simon Nye’s episode the week after.

I strongly expect the Vampires to be the hook, but the Amy story – which then leads on into the Nye story – to be the real meat of the thing. The fangs and bosoms are good for the trailer, but after that ending, and the ep we’re heading to afterwards, Amy’s issues are likely to be a bigger deal.

[Carlito]

> Yeah, if only River and the Doctor had discussed her attempts to set up the teleporter in advance of that escape. Then it wouldn’t be remotely DEM-ish.
OH WAIT THEY DID.

I said ‘almost’, and whether they discussed it beforehand or not, it was still an easy out.

[pfm]

You’ve got to love that we’ve just had one of the most blatantly ‘wahey’ sexual moments in all of Who, backed up in Confidential by Moffat more or less saying Amy wants to shag the Doctor and there’s nothing more to it. Methinks Rory isn’t doing a good enough job of satisfying her…

OK it wasn’t played too overtly but Amy was trying to take his clothes off and she did throw herself on the bed ready and waiting for him to ‘sort her out’! While it was a nice, funny scene that they both played really well, it definitely does mess up Amy’s character somewhat. She goes from hugging him like a best friend two episodes ago to ripping his clothes off?? RTD must be rolling on the floor pissing himself laughing at this!

[Ben Paddon]

> While it was a nice, funny scene that they both played really well, it definitely does mess up Amy’s character somewhat.

No it doesn’t. If anything it makes her stronger – she knows what she wants and she makes no bones about it, whereas Rose just subtly hinted at her feelings, and Martha was too busy waiting to be noticed to actually grab the bull by the horns.

Amy grabbed. Hard.

[Pete Part Three]

>she knows what she wants and she makes no bones about it,

But the implication is that she doesn’t want THAT at all. And she doesn’t seem to want to get married either…and she’s doing that too.

>Well, I thought it was a nice little angle… monsters that attack you when you’re not watching them, coupled with a person who literally cannot open their eyes or they will die…

The Angels are not allowed to attack because they are quantum locked as soon as they’re seen by any living creature. And, according to 10, this isn’t a CHOICE, it seems to be completely out of their hands. So, if there’s no thought process on behalf of the angels that allows them to move…it’s not really a conscious decision to decide whether to move in the presence of Amy when she has her eyes closed.

>And I still haven’t gotten to Blink

You need to watch that now. Seriously. It’s not reliant on any surrounding stories and won’t spoil any other stuff you haven’t seen. But it’s bloody amazing.

[pfm]

I think Moffat was on the verge of blowing it with the sheer convenience of the Angels ‘instinctively’ thinking Amy would have her eyes open when she was walking around. You still blink when you walk, yes? We can let him get away with it though because it gave us the chance to see them move.

[Danny Stephenson]

Well, I’ve never counted myself as a much or a Doctor Who fan, I tried watching Christopher Eccleston’s Doctor and fell behind after about 3 episodes…

I tried watching David Tennant and fell behind…

But I am so far sticking to this one so far, and it’s very intrigued so far. I’m finding Matt Smith to be an excellent doctor. It’s only been 5 episodes and already we’ve seen so many facets of his character.

Anyways, I’m very intrigued by this ‘crack’ idea that I thought would be a lot less signposted than it has been to be honest. But this I would count as my first ever piece of Doctor Who Fan Art and it looks like this:

This is the Full Size Version

The tracing of the crack itself took about 25 minutes, using two Screenshots from “The Eleventh Hour” which is a bloody long time minutely scrutinising every mouse click.

Anyways, there it is.

Enjoy!!

[Jo]

>But I am so far sticking to this one so far, and it’s very intrigued so far

So far, so good! :oP

[Ben Paddon]

Hellooooo, new desktop wallpaper.

[pfm]

Good job, Danny, with keeping on with the show, especially after the excerable ‘Victory of the Daleks’! Decent art too. It wouldn’t surprise me if an image very much like this makes it into the series itself, probably the finale. A huuuge crack across a starfield.

[pfm]

Good job, Danny, with keeping on with the show, especially after the excerable ‘Victory of the Daleks’! Decent art too. It wouldn’t surprise me if an image very much like this makes it into the series itself, probably the finale. A huuuge crack across a starfield.

[Jonathan Capps]

See you in ten minutes?

[Seb Patrick]

>Good job, Danny, with keeping on with the show, especially after the excerable ‘Victory of the Daleks’

1. It was very, very far from execrable.
2. If you were to give up on Moffat’s Who after the quality of the first two eps, purely because of one slightly weaker one, you’d be a FOOL.

[Danny Stephenson]

It wouldn’t surprise me if an image very much like this makes it into the series itself, probably the finale. A huuuge crack across a starfield.

Looking at it now, do you know what it reminds me of? The rip in space from The Beast with a Billion Backs.

One thing that does intrigue me is the shape, from a design point of view I would imagine it’s very hard to make something that is distinctive as a crack that needs to be recognised as it’s going to show up more than once, in various ways and forms. Very clever work by the production team. Than again it’s Doctor Who isn’t it?

If this does end up in Doctor Who, then it would technically be a spoiler, in which case I apologise. But if it’s doesn’t, then it’s not and therefore I don’t.

:)

[pfm]

> 1. It was very, very far from execrable.

When Daleks that look like huge, multi-coloured, plastic toys you could hire for a 6-year-old’s birthday party are one of the only passable elements of an episode, I say that makes it pretty close to execrable.

No more Moffat till the finale 2-parter. OK his mucky little fingers will be all over the following scripts (hopefully, in regards to Chibnall’s and Simon Nye’s…) but it’s worth noting we could be in for a rocky ride until episode 12. Though there’s been a bit of raving about the Richard Curtis ‘Vincent and the Doctor’

[Ben Paddon]

Looking at it now, do you know what it reminds me of? The rip in space from The Beast with a Billion Backs.

Actually the BwaBB crack reminded me more of the crack at the end of “The Sound of Drums”.

[hummingbird]

I’m loving Smith’s Doctor more and more with every ep – there were so many stand-out moments for the character in that last episode. He’s my favourite New Who Doctor, no contest.

> She goes from hugging him like a best friend two episodes ago to ripping his clothes off?

I don’t see it as inconsistent. There’s no ‘romance’ here, rather an understandable emotional reaction to a near-death experience.

> Hellooooo, new desktop wallpaper.

Likewise.

Nice one, Danny.

[redhead85]

> I don’t see it as inconsistent. There’s no ‘romance’ here, rather an understandable emotional reaction to a near-death experience.

And the fact she’s supposed to be getting married! Knee-jerk reaction – ‘am I with the right man’, ‘will I ever sleep with anyone else?’ etc. I thought it was well done.

> Looking at it now, do you know what it reminds me of? The rip in space from The Beast with a Billion Backs.

Doesn’t it also remind you of the rip in time and space in the episode Ouroboros?

[Fluffy Wok]

> Doesn’t it also remind you of the rip in time and space in the episode Ouroboros?

Nah, that was more dirty yellowy and sparkly glowy. And cheaper looking.

Don’t get me started on ‘non-space’

[Gwynnie]

Hey, red heads are fiery, and I think you could always tell that she wanted to shag him ;) (well, it was a childhood obsession that stuck with her through puberty… y’know?)… Yes, my main contribution is about sexual tension.
I am loving the new series, though. I take back all my “he’s not Tennant” comments… he is brilliant!!!

[redhead85]

> I think you could always tell that she wanted to shag him ;) (well, it was a childhood obsession that stuck with her through puberty… y’know?)

It’s very reminiscent of The Time Traveller’s Wife which I’m reading at the moment – where they meet when she’s six years old and he’s thirty-two. There, a childhood companion and confidant develops into a loving and sexual obsession….

[hummingbird]

> Yes, my main contribution is about sexual tension.

I can relate to that. Maybe we should talk about that instead? ;-)

[hummingbird]

I finally figured out who Matt Smith’s Doctor reminds me of: Michael Palin, anybody?

[pfm]

Thought ‘Venice’ was great for what easily could have been another episode 6 throwaway. Matt’s Doctor continues to amaze and delight. The added Rory dynamic worked really well I think. OK it’s predictable that he’s jealous of Amy and the Doctor’s adventures but this didn’t feel annoying and the Doctor was straight with him, treated him with respect and was his friend by the end of the ep. The key moment is the Doctor shouting at Amy (very parent-like) to go back to the Tardis, then Rory’s ‘thanks’.

[Pongo]

An average episode, but easy to watch due to Smith’s performance and all the good lines. Rory was surprisingly good, given how irritating he was in the Eleventh Hour.

[pfm]

and there you have it.

[Pete Part Three]

Meh to that one and not a big surprise. I usually rewatch the episodes part way through the week, but I can’t see myself giving that another airing. Typical filler stuff.

I really liked the Stag-do scene, particularly the unusual cut to the credits…but it lost me soon after. Slightly surprised that none of the people in Venice were particularly interested in the Blue Box that suddenly materialised in the middle of the town. I don’t recall it every arriving in such a crowded place.

I like Rory and the dynamic with the three of them is nice. Also good to see a bit more of that Tardis set.

Next week looks very interesting.

[Danny Stephenson]

Wow, didn’t spot that one in the clouds, that’s pretty clever…

[Jonathan Capps]

> Slightly surprised that none of the people in Venice were particularly interested in the Blue Box that suddenly materialised in the middle of the town. I don’t recall it every arriving in such a crowded place.

Hasn’t there been an explanation thrown out about a perception filter in a previous episode? I think Eccleston mentioned it a few times, I think.

[pfm]

It’s the same reason no-one bats an eyelid seeing someone walking down the street in a stag do t-shirt. It’s Doctor blummin’ Who. And yes the Tardis has a perception filter making normal peeps hardly notice it at all. Though the Doctor could remove it if he was going to contemporary London. If it materialized anywhere around the city it wouldn’t get a second look.

[Seb Patrick]

Nah, if it materialised in modern-day London you’d just get loads of nerds clustering around it taking photos, like the one at TV Centre.

[Author]

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