Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Doctor Who – Series 5 – Broadcast Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

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  • #109545
    Dessie
    Participant

    I’m getting a real Aliens vibe off this episode so far.

    #109548
    Muzzy
    Participant

    > If only they had a time travelling device hanging around somewhere….

    > Oh.

    > ;)

    Wait. No. This has blown my mind. Surely if the Doctor could travel back in time and land on Skaro at a point when it hadn’t been blown up then the Daleks living on Skaro at that point in time would still be flying around invading God knows where and generally causing havock. And yet the Doctor is always still surprised when he encounters them, suggesting Skaro and the Daleks no longer exist at any point in time. So surely what you suggest isn’t possible?

    Maybe :S

    Is there something I haven’t thought of?

    #109549
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    The Daleks are very much a part of the Doctor’s own personal timeline, and it’s already been clearly established that he can’t cross his own timeline.

    But then that doesn’t explain River Song.

    Ow. My head.

    #109565
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    Um have we officially decamped the Who talk from the G&T forum now?

    Only, y’know… THE TIME OF ANGELS. Possibly the most un-Tottenham thing in exsistence. Completely non-non-non-non-non-hotspur

    #109566
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    T’was good and I enjoyed it.

    ’twasn’t the best ever tho’

    #109567
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    I honestly hand on heart think it’s up there. So many great lines, moments, looks, reactions, ideas. Absolutely everything I hoped the Moffat Era would deliver.

    #109568
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    It was very good and nicely sets up part 2 with some interesting questions, but it wasn’t perfect.

    I disliked the Angels murdering people. The idea of transporting them to the past and living off the potential energy of their unlived days was such an elegant, novel idea. Snapping people’s necks, in comparison, is a bit boring.

    On a similar note, wasn’t keen on the “image of an Angel becomes an Angel”, mainly because it’s just seems like an unnecessary extra attribute. Ditto the Angel escaping the TV. This sort of thing would have worked perfectly well for another, original, monster. Well, just as long as it’s not a remake of The Idiot’s Lantern.

    Oh, and River Song annoys me. But that wasn’t a surprise.

    #109569
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Yeah it was good.

    Spoilers ahead:

    I have mixed feelings about the extra powers the angels have developed though. The ‘image of an angel becomes an angel’ thing was brilliant in it’s creepiness. Genuinely quite scary.

    That whole ‘doorways of the soul’ thing though… I’m not so sure. On one hand it adds a bit of extra menace, i.e. to stay safe from these things you have to keep looking at them, but if you look in their eyes (which in the circumstances is probably the most natural thing to do) they still might get you through the back door, so to speak. However it just wasn’t an issue in Blink! at all! Sure, the ‘image’ thing wasn’t either, but then the situation never cropped up, so that still fits. There probably would have been plenty of eyeballing going on though.

    I guess that could be explained two ways:
    1. the angels in Blink! as scavengers were under-powered, and the one on the ship was in it’s prime, having had time to soak up so much radioactive nourishment.

    2. Maybe the characters just didn’t look at them in the eyes so long. From what I remember there was plenty of staring though.

    And then there’s the ‘feeding on destiny’ concept in Blink! that was quite unique. That was explained okay in this episode (and what a creepy grotesque explanation that was) but it’s kind of been done before with the shadow beings in the library episode. It’s a shame they didn’t do something interesting with the angels established power. Sure that would have been a bit of repetition of Blink! but it would have kept things consistent and could have still be utilised in an interesting way for this situation I think. And radiation as nourishment is a far cry from destinies, I’d think, unless it just feeds different things in the angels. They might still do something with it next episode though.

    I’m probably nitpicking though. The overall episode was great, and creepy, and I liked the two head/one head twist. I actually thought it strange why two headed beings would create lots of one headed statues. My mind didn’t take that extra step though. I thought maybe they were statues created from the later human colonists rather than the natives (although I didn’t quit buy it)… so that extra loop was brilliant.

    #109570
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Okay, looking back I realise I repeated what Pete said pretty much. (Sorry I didn’t notice his post. Surely I didn’t take 20 minutes typing mine and it slipped in the background?) As I said, I really did like the ‘image’ power though. And River Song is a lovely saucy minx.

    #109577
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    Mike Skinner making a random appearance in Doctor Who… huh?

    #109578
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    After feedback from his friends, Skinner turned in a performance that was thankfully free of mugging.

    #109579
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    That was a bit…odd.

    #109580
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    So it wasn’t just me, then. it WAS strange that he was in it?

    #109592
    pfm
    Participant

    It wasn’t really ‘strange’ as such. Though Mike’s appearance obviously happened because it was Adam Smith directing the episode (he directed various Streets videos, like Blinded By The Lights, which the opening of the ep kind of referenced) it’s just a small part, it’s not that jarring.

    The pre-credits sequence was brilliant IMO, the kind of setup the RTD series’ tried to do on a number of different occasions and never quite got right but this time it was bang on. It felt exciting and it had a real scale to it. The whole ep did.

    While a few things didn’t sit well with me (the Angel ‘speaking’ to the Doctor through the dead soldiers, and yes the snapping of the necks, though I don’t reckon that will be the full story, we never actually saw their bodies) this is probably the best first part of a 2-parter since The Impossible Planet (yep I rate it above Human Nature).

    One thing…the supposed ‘scary’ part with the image of the Angel was slightly marred for me by the fact that all I could think of was how beautiful Karen Gillan looked! When she was looking straight down the lens I think I actually died for a moment there…ohhh come to me, and YES in that red jumper! ahem.

    #109613
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I’ve just seen a lineup commercial on the BBC involving a cartoon Graham Norton being chased by a cartoon dalek. Does anyone know if that existed before the banner fiasco or in light of it?

    #109614
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >The pre-credits sequence was brilliant IMO

    Pound for pound, the best five minutes of Doctor Who for ages.

    #109615
    Ridley
    Participant

    I’ve just seen a lineup commercial on the BBC involving a cartoon Graham Norton being chased by a cartoon dalek. Does anyone know if that existed before the banner fiasco or in light of it?

    Before.

    #109616
    pfm
    Participant

    They should just go ahead and cast Graham in a series 6 episode, he’s obviously so desperate to get on Who. :P

    #109618
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Wow. Just watched this. Very strange stuff but rather good. In two minds about it, really. The Angels stuff underwhelmed me (what has happened to their powers of time displacement, dammit? and, most irritating of all, WHY can’t they attack Amy when she has her eyes closed?).

    But then, that bloody big crack appeared and it took the story in a completely different direction. Madness. To be honest, with the way Moffat totally rewrote the angels as neck-snapping aliens with a bunch of new powers, it seemed a bit pointless bringing them back at all. Especially since they were suddenly sidelined.

    I didn’t like the final scene; Amy pouncing on the Doctor. I get WHY she’s doing it, but it makes her seem a little too needy and vulnerable. And also a bit of a bitch to Rory. When Rose and the Doctor hinted at romance, it was “love”, this was just a quick shag before her wedding. Seemed off.

    I guess we’re supposed to think that River will murder the Doctor at some point. Although since we still haven’t seen River meet the Doctor for the first time (and, presumably won’t be this series), it’s unlikely that we’ll get a proper explanation anytime soon.

    Intriguing stuff about Amy’s true time. The manner in which it was revealed means that everyone is right to be bloody confused. Which is nice. Accidental placement of the 1990 ID badge, my arse…

    Not really looking forward to Vampires in Venice to be honest. Looks distinctly filler. More interested in Simon Nye’s episode the week after.

    #109619
    Carlito
    Participant

    > most irritating of all, WHY can’t they attack Amy when she has her eyes closed?

    Well, I thought it was a nice little angle… monsters that attack you when you’re not watching them, coupled with a person who literally cannot open their eyes or they will die… I thought that was a great idea that didn’t actually end up going anywhere.

    The teleport was jarring and annoying. Almost makes me want to use the dreaded DEM phrase…

    As for WHY they didn’t attack Amy when her eyes were closed… there was an explanation although it wasn’t great. They were too preoccupied with the time crack to pay close enough attention to her; they just assumed, in their haste, that she could see as usual. Suspension of disbelief in full force there.

    Although this series so far has left me underwhelmed most of the time, I am enjoying the detail and intrigue put into the story arc, and this two parter was just brilliant. And I still haven’t gotten to Blink or Silence In The Library yet, so I’m guessing I will appreciate it even more when I have caught up with the Angels/River Song backstories.

    #109620
    Andrew
    Participant

    > The teleport was jarring and annoying. Almost makes me want to use the dreaded DEM phrase…

    Yeah, if only River and the Doctor had discussed her attempts to set up the teleporter in advance of that escape. Then it wouldn’t be remotely DEM-ish.

    OH WAIT THEY DID.

    > Not really looking forward to Vampires in Venice to be honest. Looks distinctly filler. More interested in Simon Nye’s episode the week after.

    I strongly expect the Vampires to be the hook, but the Amy story – which then leads on into the Nye story – to be the real meat of the thing. The fangs and bosoms are good for the trailer, but after that ending, and the ep we’re heading to afterwards, Amy’s issues are likely to be a bigger deal.

    #109621
    Carlito
    Participant

    > Yeah, if only River and the Doctor had discussed her attempts to set up the teleporter in advance of that escape. Then it wouldn’t be remotely DEM-ish.
    OH WAIT THEY DID.

    I said ‘almost’, and whether they discussed it beforehand or not, it was still an easy out.

    #109622
    pfm
    Participant

    You’ve got to love that we’ve just had one of the most blatantly ‘wahey’ sexual moments in all of Who, backed up in Confidential by Moffat more or less saying Amy wants to shag the Doctor and there’s nothing more to it. Methinks Rory isn’t doing a good enough job of satisfying her…

    OK it wasn’t played too overtly but Amy was trying to take his clothes off and she did throw herself on the bed ready and waiting for him to ‘sort her out’! While it was a nice, funny scene that they both played really well, it definitely does mess up Amy’s character somewhat. She goes from hugging him like a best friend two episodes ago to ripping his clothes off?? RTD must be rolling on the floor pissing himself laughing at this!

    #109624
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    > While it was a nice, funny scene that they both played really well, it definitely does mess up Amy’s character somewhat.

    No it doesn’t. If anything it makes her stronger – she knows what she wants and she makes no bones about it, whereas Rose just subtly hinted at her feelings, and Martha was too busy waiting to be noticed to actually grab the bull by the horns.

    Amy grabbed. Hard.

    #109625
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >she knows what she wants and she makes no bones about it,

    But the implication is that she doesn’t want THAT at all. And she doesn’t seem to want to get married either…and she’s doing that too.

    >Well, I thought it was a nice little angle… monsters that attack you when you’re not watching them, coupled with a person who literally cannot open their eyes or they will die…

    The Angels are not allowed to attack because they are quantum locked as soon as they’re seen by any living creature. And, according to 10, this isn’t a CHOICE, it seems to be completely out of their hands. So, if there’s no thought process on behalf of the angels that allows them to move…it’s not really a conscious decision to decide whether to move in the presence of Amy when she has her eyes closed.

    >And I still haven’t gotten to Blink

    You need to watch that now. Seriously. It’s not reliant on any surrounding stories and won’t spoil any other stuff you haven’t seen. But it’s bloody amazing.

    #109627
    pfm
    Participant

    I think Moffat was on the verge of blowing it with the sheer convenience of the Angels ‘instinctively’ thinking Amy would have her eyes open when she was walking around. You still blink when you walk, yes? We can let him get away with it though because it gave us the chance to see them move.

    #109628
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    Well, I’ve never counted myself as a much or a Doctor Who fan, I tried watching Christopher Eccleston’s Doctor and fell behind after about 3 episodes…

    I tried watching David Tennant and fell behind…

    But I am so far sticking to this one so far, and it’s very intrigued so far. I’m finding Matt Smith to be an excellent doctor. It’s only been 5 episodes and already we’ve seen so many facets of his character.

    Anyways, I’m very intrigued by this ‘crack’ idea that I thought would be a lot less signposted than it has been to be honest. But this I would count as my first ever piece of Doctor Who Fan Art and it looks like this:

    This is the Full Size Version

    The tracing of the crack itself took about 25 minutes, using two Screenshots from “The Eleventh Hour” which is a bloody long time minutely scrutinising every mouse click.

    Anyways, there it is.

    Enjoy!!

    #109629
    Jo
    Participant

    >But I am so far sticking to this one so far, and it’s very intrigued so far

    So far, so good! :oP

    #109630
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Hellooooo, new desktop wallpaper.

    #109631
    pfm
    Participant

    Good job, Danny, with keeping on with the show, especially after the excerable ‘Victory of the Daleks’! Decent art too. It wouldn’t surprise me if an image very much like this makes it into the series itself, probably the finale. A huuuge crack across a starfield.

    #109632
    pfm
    Participant

    Good job, Danny, with keeping on with the show, especially after the excerable ‘Victory of the Daleks’! Decent art too. It wouldn’t surprise me if an image very much like this makes it into the series itself, probably the finale. A huuuge crack across a starfield.

    #109633
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    See you in ten minutes?

    #109634
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >Good job, Danny, with keeping on with the show, especially after the excerable ‘Victory of the Daleks’

    1. It was very, very far from execrable.
    2. If you were to give up on Moffat’s Who after the quality of the first two eps, purely because of one slightly weaker one, you’d be a FOOL.

    #109635
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    It wouldn’t surprise me if an image very much like this makes it into the series itself, probably the finale. A huuuge crack across a starfield.

    Looking at it now, do you know what it reminds me of? The rip in space from The Beast with a Billion Backs.

    One thing that does intrigue me is the shape, from a design point of view I would imagine it’s very hard to make something that is distinctive as a crack that needs to be recognised as it’s going to show up more than once, in various ways and forms. Very clever work by the production team. Than again it’s Doctor Who isn’t it?

    If this does end up in Doctor Who, then it would technically be a spoiler, in which case I apologise. But if it’s doesn’t, then it’s not and therefore I don’t.

    :)

    #109636
    pfm
    Participant

    > 1. It was very, very far from execrable.

    When Daleks that look like huge, multi-coloured, plastic toys you could hire for a 6-year-old’s birthday party are one of the only passable elements of an episode, I say that makes it pretty close to execrable.

    No more Moffat till the finale 2-parter. OK his mucky little fingers will be all over the following scripts (hopefully, in regards to Chibnall’s and Simon Nye’s…) but it’s worth noting we could be in for a rocky ride until episode 12. Though there’s been a bit of raving about the Richard Curtis ‘Vincent and the Doctor’

    #109637
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Looking at it now, do you know what it reminds me of? The rip in space from The Beast with a Billion Backs.

    Actually the BwaBB crack reminded me more of the crack at the end of “The Sound of Drums”.

    #109638
    hummingbird
    Participant

    I’m loving Smith’s Doctor more and more with every ep – there were so many stand-out moments for the character in that last episode. He’s my favourite New Who Doctor, no contest.

    > She goes from hugging him like a best friend two episodes ago to ripping his clothes off?

    I don’t see it as inconsistent. There’s no ‘romance’ here, rather an understandable emotional reaction to a near-death experience.

    > Hellooooo, new desktop wallpaper.

    Likewise.

    Nice one, Danny.

    #109639
    redhead85
    Participant

    > I don’t see it as inconsistent. There’s no ‘romance’ here, rather an understandable emotional reaction to a near-death experience.

    And the fact she’s supposed to be getting married! Knee-jerk reaction – ‘am I with the right man’, ‘will I ever sleep with anyone else?’ etc. I thought it was well done.

    > Looking at it now, do you know what it reminds me of? The rip in space from The Beast with a Billion Backs.

    Doesn’t it also remind you of the rip in time and space in the episode Ouroboros?

    #109669
    Fluffy Wok
    Participant

    > Doesn’t it also remind you of the rip in time and space in the episode Ouroboros?

    Nah, that was more dirty yellowy and sparkly glowy. And cheaper looking.

    Don’t get me started on ‘non-space’

    #109674
    Gwynnie
    Participant

    Hey, red heads are fiery, and I think you could always tell that she wanted to shag him ;) (well, it was a childhood obsession that stuck with her through puberty… y’know?)… Yes, my main contribution is about sexual tension.
    I am loving the new series, though. I take back all my “he’s not Tennant” comments… he is brilliant!!!

    #109675
    redhead85
    Participant

    > I think you could always tell that she wanted to shag him ;) (well, it was a childhood obsession that stuck with her through puberty… y’know?)

    It’s very reminiscent of The Time Traveller’s Wife which I’m reading at the moment – where they meet when she’s six years old and he’s thirty-two. There, a childhood companion and confidant develops into a loving and sexual obsession….

    #109678
    hummingbird
    Participant

    > Yes, my main contribution is about sexual tension.

    I can relate to that. Maybe we should talk about that instead? ;-)

    #109681
    hummingbird
    Participant

    I finally figured out who Matt Smith’s Doctor reminds me of: Michael Palin, anybody?

    #109686
    pfm
    Participant

    Thought ‘Venice’ was great for what easily could have been another episode 6 throwaway. Matt’s Doctor continues to amaze and delight. The added Rory dynamic worked really well I think. OK it’s predictable that he’s jealous of Amy and the Doctor’s adventures but this didn’t feel annoying and the Doctor was straight with him, treated him with respect and was his friend by the end of the ep. The key moment is the Doctor shouting at Amy (very parent-like) to go back to the Tardis, then Rory’s ‘thanks’.

    #109687
    Pongo
    Participant

    An average episode, but easy to watch due to Smith’s performance and all the good lines. Rory was surprisingly good, given how irritating he was in the Eleventh Hour.

    #109688
    pfm
    Participant

    and there you have it.

    #109689
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Meh to that one and not a big surprise. I usually rewatch the episodes part way through the week, but I can’t see myself giving that another airing. Typical filler stuff.

    I really liked the Stag-do scene, particularly the unusual cut to the credits…but it lost me soon after. Slightly surprised that none of the people in Venice were particularly interested in the Blue Box that suddenly materialised in the middle of the town. I don’t recall it every arriving in such a crowded place.

    I like Rory and the dynamic with the three of them is nice. Also good to see a bit more of that Tardis set.

    Next week looks very interesting.

    #109690
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    Wow, didn’t spot that one in the clouds, that’s pretty clever…

    #109695
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Slightly surprised that none of the people in Venice were particularly interested in the Blue Box that suddenly materialised in the middle of the town. I don’t recall it every arriving in such a crowded place.

    Hasn’t there been an explanation thrown out about a perception filter in a previous episode? I think Eccleston mentioned it a few times, I think.

    #109700
    pfm
    Participant

    It’s the same reason no-one bats an eyelid seeing someone walking down the street in a stag do t-shirt. It’s Doctor blummin’ Who. And yes the Tardis has a perception filter making normal peeps hardly notice it at all. Though the Doctor could remove it if he was going to contemporary London. If it materialized anywhere around the city it wouldn’t get a second look.

    #109706
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Nah, if it materialised in modern-day London you’d just get loads of nerds clustering around it taking photos, like the one at TV Centre.

    #109707
    Dave
    Participant

    >Meh to that one and not a big surprise. I usually rewatch the episodes part way through the week, but I can’t see myself giving that another airing. Typical filler stuff.

    This is the first episode I’ve really enjoyed. I was aware of the bits I should like in the first five, but I didn’t love any of them. This one I actually sat and watched and was able to enjoy.

    >Hasn’t there been an explanation thrown out about a perception filter in a previous episode? I think Eccleston mentioned it a few times, I think.

    In Boom Town Eccleston says humans ignore it, Torchwood’s magic lift is where the perception filter bit comes from.

    #109710
    pfm
    Participant

    Oh yeah, that spot is where the Tardis landed in Boom Town, yes? There’ll be some bullshit line of dialogue about the spot gaining residual energy from the Tardis or something, leaving the pavement with a perception filter.

    #109711
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    So, if they are using a perception filter, they never needed a chameleon circuit then?

    #109716
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Er… all of the above?

    I really enjoyed that ep. Good fun!

    #109735
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    It was all a dream…

    Anyway, I rather liked that despite the rather large central problem that Upper Leadworth was never going to be reality (a shame they over-egged it with making Amy pregnant). The Dream Lord stuff was interesting. Not sure about the final reveal as it creates the problem that it was all a big joke with no real danger, but the self-loathing that the Doctor seems to feel for himself is certainly an interesting aspect.

    #109736

    I found it a bit boring but interesting at the same time this week. Like watching a documentary about something boring like coffee mugs but with interesting talking heads like Peter Cook. If that makes sense.

    #109737
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I found the majority of the episode frustrating. It needed to have a satisfactory pay off for me to decide whether I liked it or not.

    In the end, I liked it. Especially the final reflection. Doesn’t look like the end of the Dream Lord… an episode to set up a future story by the look of it.

    #109738
    pfm
    Participant

    > Especially the final reflection. Doesn’t look like the end of the Dream Lord… an episode to set up a future story by the look of it.

    I really hope so because Toby Jones is bloody brilliant and that hint that he could return pretty much saves the episode.

    A sort of despair squid situation this week! Loved it. It hit me partway through that the Dream Lord could be the Doctor or a version of him because of the bow tie. It’s not clear cut how much the whole thing was actually setup by the Doctor and how much was out of his control. Is he really that desperate for Amy and Rory to stick together? He obviously knows more than he’s saying at this stage.

    Anyone spot a little Men Behaving Badly nod (Simon Nye wrote this after all), it was when Rory said Amy looked lovely, I’m pretty sure the lines were taken straight from an episode, Gary saying it to Dorothy.

    #109739
    ori-STUDFARM
    Participant

    I thought it was more like Rimmer’s Self Loathing Creature than Despair Squid

    #109740
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    did anyone spot any of the time cracks in the episode last night ?

    #109741
    hummingbird
    Participant

    > Anyway, I rather liked that despite the rather large central problem that Upper Leadworth was never going to be reality (a shame they over-egged it with making Amy pregnant). The Dream Lord stuff was interesting. Not sure about the final reveal as it creates the problem that it was all a big joke with no real danger, but the self-loathing that the Doctor seems to feel for himself is certainly an interesting aspect.

    This.

    #109742
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >I thought it was more like Rimmer’s Self Loathing Creature than Despair Squid

    A bit of both really. It was a dream (Despair Squid) but controlled by the (self loathing) Dream Lord . Oh and a bit of a twist reminiscent of a certain film* at the end too.

    I guessed the twist relating to the dream(s) but not the identity of the Dream Lord.

    * I won’t say which film in case you haven’t seen it yet and it gets spoiled. Here are clues in case you’ve seen it: Vietnam. Freaky demon people. Cherubic doctor.

    #109743
    Carlito
    Participant

    About halfway through I started to suspect the Dream Lord was an alter ego of the Doctor, but I thought he was doing it deliberately and knowingly (to force Amy to confront her feelings for Rory), and we were set for a Queeg-type reveal at the end.

    So I kinda sussed out that twist, although I didn’t expect both to be dream worlds. It definitely felt a little familiar as a Red Dwarf fan (“well we’re back in real life now – oh wait, no we’re not!!” a la Better Than Life, Back to Reality, Back In The Red pt 3).

    Still I actually quite enjoyed it because it had a different feel. It all felt a little disconnected but in a good way, which made it interesting. I may be inclined to say this was my 2nd favourite episode so far this series (after the 2-parter) but it warrants a second viewing before I commit to an Earth-shattering statement like that!

    #109744
    pfm
    Participant

    Something I’ve realised about this series, I’m really on edge during each episode, it never feels ‘safe’. This didn’t happen much during the Tennant era where sometimes I was stifling yawns left right and centre, there wasn’t enough intrigue or danger. Yeah you’d get it sometimes, particularly with Moffat’s episodes an then select others like Midnight.

    Part of this has to do with Matt’s Doctor and also Amy and now Rory – there’s plenty that we want to know that hasn’t been revealed yet, giving us mysteries that we want to tune in for AS WELL AS seeing the monster of the week and all the fluff that goes with that. Moffat is delivering the series as one glorious whole.

    In the past we didn’t really give a toss what happened with Rose or Martha’s stories (did we? and did they even have much of a story really??) though RTD decided to shake it up a bit with Donna in Turn Left and her ending. Moffat has placed the characters’ journeys above everything else this season.

    #109859
    Dave
    Participant

    Did anyone else enter the Big Finish not-a-competition writing opportunity?

    This is my scripted scene for the Fifth Doctor & Nyssa audio play:
    http://davewrotethis.blogspot.com/2010/05/big-script.html

    This is my short trip:
    http://davewrotethis.blogspot.com/2010/05/short-trip.html

    #109887

    No, no, NO!

    That should not have happened. :(

    #109903
    Nick R
    Participant
    #109924
    Somebody
    Participant

    Note that it’s still an “in testing” release – basically, a last-minute public beta – rather than the absolutely final version which will go live on Saturday.

    BBC explains early Doctor Who release

    #109939
    David M
    Participant

    Just watched “Vincent and the Doctor”, and I have to say Tony Curran as Vincent Van Cough was brilliant!

    I didn’t notice any cracks in this episode, did anyone else?

    #109940
    pfm
    Participant

    I think there was a crack in the first painting we saw him doing. Not sure, I’ll have to check that later.

    #109941
    Andrew
    Participant

    There wasn’t a crack in Vampires either, aside from the dialogue mention. The cloud thing is all viewer rorschaching.

    #109945

    There was a crack in the Tardis lock in Vampires, wasn’t there? Or was that a different episode?

    EDIT Oh no I’m quite wrong.

    #109968
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    Well that was a bit world cup tie in then. Hard to sympathise with Corden’s character given I’ve not seen G&S, think his world cup anthem is shit, and didnt like to see him and Patrick Stewart spatting at that award ceremony. Given all that I’d have been happy enough if the room upstairs had swallowed him, he was capable of much more sympathetic acting in cruise of the gods before fame went to his head. Matt Smith continues to be brilliant. The trailer at the end has got me pysched up for next week.

    #109970
    pfm
    Participant

    > Hard to sympathise with Corden’s character given I’ve not seen G&S, think his world cup anthem is shit, and didnt like to see him and Patrick Stewart spatting at that award ceremony.

    D’you know, even though he’s been so in-your-face recently I still managed to buy him playing a character in this easily enough. I really wish he’d just stick to doing this kind of thing though. He thinks he’s an actor, writer, presenter, comedian, singer, everything. It just makes everyone want him off their screens when in fact we should have been looking forward to seeing him in ‘The Lodger’.

    #109971
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    This series has failed to grab me as I thought it would do, mainly because it hasn’t had a run of excellent episodes, and the second two parter was so awful. I was looking forward to something on a par with Series Three, but this failed to build much momentum. I’m actually having a hard time with Amy. She showed promise in the first few episodes but the rest of the time has seemed to alternate between smugness and that wide-eyed expression.

    That said, I rather liked The Lodger. I detest Corden “the celebrity” with a passion, but am fairly indifferent to him when he’s acting. This was an entertaining story although the finale felt rushed and underwritten. Not sure I buy the Doctor airkissing people. There’s a fine line between eccentricity and idiocy.

    The Eleventh Hour : 4/5
    The Beast Below : 3/5
    Victory of the Daleks : 2/5
    The Time of Angels : 3/5
    Flesh and Stone : 3/5
    Vampires in Venice : 2/5
    Amy’s Choice : 4/5
    The Hungry Earth P1 : 1/5
    Cold Blood : 2/5
    Vincent and the Doctor : 3/5
    The Lodger : 4/5

    #109972
    redhead85
    Participant

    For me, the whole series feels like it’s slipped out of order somehow. That the action and underlying thread built to a crescendo (with The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood – especially the ending with pulling the Tardis piece out of the crack) and has then fallen off again for the last two episodes.

    I’d have rewritten the odd line (to allow for the loss of Rory) and slotted the last two weeks episodes earlier in the series – perhaps with Vincent as the new episode four and The Lodger as the new episode six. That way – the first few episodes of the series are suitably dramatic enough to reel in new viewers, and then you get a steady build up to the finale. I was left this week thinking ‘is it really the beginning of the finale next week?’ The only thing that had me geared up was the trailer!

    #109973
    Somebody
    Participant

    So, what, pushing all three two-parters into the back half of the series, with the last two running consecutively?

    I can see the argument for pulling The Lodger forward to, say, ep 4 (filming realities notwithstanding) and arranging for the ring-finding scene (the only part which has to be post-Rory) to be at the end of Vincent & the Doctor – where the “not crying” scene would have been fresher in the non-hardcore fans’ minds, but that “not crying” scene is absolutely essential, and you need SOME pause between THE/CB and TPO/TBB.

    #109977
    redhead85
    Participant

    > So, what, pushing all three two-parters into the back half of the series, with the last two running consecutively?

    Why not? It worked perfectly well in Red Dwarf series VIII and OH WAIT

    No, I didn’t mean all three two-parters at the end (my bad if I intimated that), Vampires in Venice and Amy’s Choice would still precede Hungry Earth etc. I guess I felt disappointed in how little reference there came in Vincent and the Doctor (i.e. at this late stage, no appearance of the crack etc)

    Yes indeed, the crying inside bit is intriguing but really that line can be said by any vaguely psychic character in any incarnation of a late solus episode, not necessarily Vincent. After all, the 10th Doctor’s prophecy was given to him by a woman on a bus – random. I guess the (as you put it) ‘pause’ episode between the pair of two-parters in my opinion should have still maintained some form of energy and urgency which I guess I felt the Vincent episode was lacking.

    #109980
    Andrew
    Participant

    > After all, the 10th Doctor’s prophecy was given to him by a woman on a bus

    I wouldn’t hold that up as a particularly good example of arc-building…

    Anyway, I wouldn’t trade the amazing undertone that Vincent’s depression is akin to mourning the loss of someone you don’t remember for anything. And certainly not so we can skip over the loss of a companion in order to keep the cracks-in-time truck rolling at top speed.

    The idea that the episode could be adjusted by ‘a few lines’ to account for Rory seems to miss so much of what was implicit. SO much of that episode is about Amy’s loss. That it’s not hammered away in literal dialogue doesn’t mean it’s not there.

    I don’t think you can equate an entire episode about intangible pain with a single line of thrown-in dialogue.

    #109983
    redhead85
    Participant

    > After all, the 10th Doctor’s prophecy was given to him by a woman on a bus

    > I wouldn’t hold that up as a particularly good example of arc-building…

    Nor would I – I used it in the context of demonstrating that it doesn’t necessarily have to be characters of great standing who deliver the most powerful lines – lines that are central to the slow reveal.

    > I don’t think you can equate an entire episode about intangible pain with a single line of thrown-in dialogue.

    I wasn’t trying to, sorry if it seemed that way. I thought it was a great episode but for me the positioning (combined with The Lodger) seemed to wind down everything that bit too much before the finale – as per my original point, I almost felt a sense of surprise to learn that next week was the begining of the end as ’twere compared to the earlier DW series.

    It’s only an opinion – other people might have found the action across the series to be perfectly paced. But I thought I’d air my thoughts on it.

    #109985
    pfm
    Participant

    The past two episodes reminded me of how several times during The X-Files run you would get massive, earth-shattering arc events and revelations then next episode straight back to monster-of-the-week fare, and it often felt jarring. At least there have been some references to the main story within VatD and TL, no matter how small. Not to mention the fact that these have been two of the season’s best.

    ‘Victory of the Daleks’ aside (can we flush that one out an airlock please?) the only real balls-up this series is the sheer mediocrity of 90% of ‘The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood’. I know some people got a kick out of how classic series (specifically Pertwee) some of it felt but, frankly, it bored the arse off me. The good ending was sitting there, and probably Moffat-penned, but the rest was the only time it’s felt like autopilot on, yeah this’ll do etc.

    The finale is obviously where the money lies, both literally in terms of budget and in delivering what we’ve been waiting for since ‘The Eleventh Hour’ (gonna watch it again before Saturday).

    #109986
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Normal service has been resumed. I am watching World Cup Live and I hate James Corden again. Phew.

    #109989
    hummingbird
    Participant

    I’ve only just seen The Lodger, but I’d say it was easily the best episode for the past few weeks.
    The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood was disappointingly dull – I mean it *should* have been good, but never quite got there, and even Vincent wasn’t especially exciting for me.
    There definitely has been a lull … I kind of lost the impetus to watch it as it was broadcast over the last few weeks, but I absolutely loved this last ep.

    #109990
    Pongo
    Participant

    The revelation of the TARDIS shard should definitely have come last week, as the lack of the crack has made the impending finale seem sudden. Still, the Lodger is one of my favorites of this season. For those keeping score, my favorites have been:

    The Time of Angels
    Amy’s Choice
    The Hungry Earth
    The Lodger

    #109991
    Nick R
    Participant

    Pete Part Three:

    The Eleventh Hour : 4/5
    The Beast Below : 3/5
    Victory of the Daleks : 2/5
    The Time of Angels : 3/5
    Flesh and Stone : 3/5
    Vampires in Venice : 2/5
    Amy’s Choice : 4/5
    The Hungry Earth P1 : 1/5
    Cold Blood : 2/5
    Vincent and the Doctor : 3/5
    The Lodger : 4/5

    My scores would generally be a point or two higher than yours: I’d give 5s to The Eleventh Hour and the Angels two-parter, and The Beast Below and Vincent and the Doctor would both get 4. And The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood would only be 1’s relative to the rest of this series – neither of them came close to “Fear Her” levels of badness.

    #109992
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    For what it’s worth, using the time old tradition:

    Utopia >>> The Lodger > Boom Town >>>>> Turn Left

    #109993
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >and the Angels two-parter

    See, I like the Angels Two-parter. But I can’t help thinking that, despite the fantastic opening of TTOA, it went off the boil quickly. My main stumbling block with Flesh and Stone is that the stuff with the angels gets derailed by the crack stuff…and manages to be far more interesting.

    >Utopia >>> The Lodger > Boom Town >>>>> Turn Left

    Yup. Although waking up to find a dog doing a shit in your mouth is better than Turn Left.

    #109994
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Fuck me.

    #109995
    Carlito
    Participant

    That was even more epic than RTD’s bombastic big ‘uns.

    Hang on… Russell T. Davies’ Bombastic Big ‘Uns… thats a spin-off book too far isnt it…

    Will Doctor Who showrunners ever tire of falling back on the Daleks and/or Cybermen for virtually every series finale? I get it, they’re his main antagonists, but they could be used more sparingly.

    Still, that has no bearing on the quality of the episode which I thought was one of the best of this series. Niiiice cliffhanger.

    #109996

    Loved it. Can’t wait for next weeks!

    #109997
    hummingbird
    Participant

    Yes, yes, and OMFG YES !

    #109998
    pfm
    Participant

    The Cybermen scary for the first time in new Who? For that reason alone I rate ‘The Pandorica Opens’ extremely highly. Then there’s…well, just about everything else in the episode, which was amazing!!

    Roman Rory is a friggin’ Auton! Amy’s dead!! (we’ll see…:D)

    All the enemies teaming up is a little hard to buy (particularly the Daleks’ involvement, they’re coming across so pathetic atm) but you can’t fault the way it was pulled off.

    How in the holy heck do you get out of the cliffhanger?? Er, apart from using the vortex manipulator that was set up earlier in the episode…

    #109999
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I liked it a lot. I loved how they tied together characters from various episodes at the start… . And they used a Hitchiker’s Guide gag too with the big writing on the cliff-face! (I wonder if that was intentional or just a coincidence?)

    And a nice twist at the end, although I guessed the identity of the most dangerous being in the universe. Except I thought it might be a future (or rather possible future) insane version rather than who we got.

    #110000
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I’ve spent all afternoon trying to work out why the sound the mechanical Cyberman head makes is so bloody familiar. Then it occurred to me – it’s the “laughing” sound the Skutter made when Rimmer’s photo went from LEVEL to NOT LEVEL in “Back to Earth”.

    #110002
    Ridley
    Participant

    Will Doctor Who showrunners ever tire of falling back on the Daleks and/or Cybermen for virtually every series finale? I get it, they’re his main antagonists, but they could be used more sparingly.

    I’m still waiting on the Raston Warrior Robot to return. I’m sure a full story could be built around them.

    …pandoricaopensdidntreallydomuchforme…

    #110003
    pfm
    Participant

    Ha Ben you’re right!

    Plenty of times on new Who I’ve heard certain library sound effects that I (very sadly, I know) recognise from other shows and games. Don’t know if anyone’s played Perfect Dark or Morrowind but sounds from both have definitely been in Who. A noticeable one in ‘The Eleventh Hour’ is the sound coming from the crashed Tardis when young Amelia approaches it, it’s the Morrowind dungeon background fx! Spell casting sounds get used a lot too.

    #110005
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Will Doctor Who showrunners ever tire of falling back on the Daleks and/or Cybermen for virtually every series finale? I get it, they’re his main antagonists, but they could be used more sparingly.

    I think the episode would have felt odd without them, to be honest. “Yes, Doctor, we are an alliance of your deadliest enemies! Except the Daleks. They weren’t in when we called. And I think the Cybermen are watching the football tonight. But apart form them, muahahahaha, etc.!”

    #110007
    redhead85
    Participant

    That episode was MADE of fucking win. And a fantastic cliffhanger. The Doctor’s challenge speech to the ships really gave me the chills as did seeing the crack on the screen of the Tardis. And the moment they put the Doctor in the Pandorica was awesome on a stick.

    Loved the fact they drew the threads from the rest of the series all together. Nicely done. Can’t wait for next week!

    #110009
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I think the Doctor’s defiant speechifying is the one thing I’m not keen on in these series. I understand while it makes the hair rise on other people’s back though, it’s certainly dramatic.

    I found it amusing when they turned the joke back on him in The Lodger. “I’m the oncoming storm! Oh wait, you meant…”
    (Not exact words not having a photographic memory.)

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