Doctor Who – Series 5 – Broadcast Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

[Jonathan Capps]

As the old thread is getting dangerously close to paginating and we’re now into the broadcast of series 5, let’s start afresh.

I think the best rules for this thread would be to ban all known spoilers for future episodes and keep it to discussion of episodes that have already aired in the UK, information released through official channels and good old fashioned speculation.

So, GO.

Topic

[Dave]

>Meh to that one and not a big surprise. I usually rewatch the episodes part way through the week, but I can’t see myself giving that another airing. Typical filler stuff.

This is the first episode I’ve really enjoyed. I was aware of the bits I should like in the first five, but I didn’t love any of them. This one I actually sat and watched and was able to enjoy.

>Hasn’t there been an explanation thrown out about a perception filter in a previous episode? I think Eccleston mentioned it a few times, I think.

In Boom Town Eccleston says humans ignore it, Torchwood’s magic lift is where the perception filter bit comes from.

[pfm]

Oh yeah, that spot is where the Tardis landed in Boom Town, yes? There’ll be some bullshit line of dialogue about the spot gaining residual energy from the Tardis or something, leaving the pavement with a perception filter.

[ori-STUDFARM]

So, if they are using a perception filter, they never needed a chameleon circuit then?

[Kris ‘Drivaaar’ Carter]

Er… all of the above?

I really enjoyed that ep. Good fun!

[Pete Part Three]

It was all a dream…

Anyway, I rather liked that despite the rather large central problem that Upper Leadworth was never going to be reality (a shame they over-egged it with making Amy pregnant). The Dream Lord stuff was interesting. Not sure about the final reveal as it creates the problem that it was all a big joke with no real danger, but the self-loathing that the Doctor seems to feel for himself is certainly an interesting aspect.

[genericnerdyusername]

I found it a bit boring but interesting at the same time this week. Like watching a documentary about something boring like coffee mugs but with interesting talking heads like Peter Cook. If that makes sense.

[ori-STUDFARM]

I found the majority of the episode frustrating. It needed to have a satisfactory pay off for me to decide whether I liked it or not.

In the end, I liked it. Especially the final reflection. Doesn’t look like the end of the Dream Lord… an episode to set up a future story by the look of it.

[pfm]

> Especially the final reflection. Doesn’t look like the end of the Dream Lord… an episode to set up a future story by the look of it.

I really hope so because Toby Jones is bloody brilliant and that hint that he could return pretty much saves the episode.

A sort of despair squid situation this week! Loved it. It hit me partway through that the Dream Lord could be the Doctor or a version of him because of the bow tie. It’s not clear cut how much the whole thing was actually setup by the Doctor and how much was out of his control. Is he really that desperate for Amy and Rory to stick together? He obviously knows more than he’s saying at this stage.

Anyone spot a little Men Behaving Badly nod (Simon Nye wrote this after all), it was when Rory said Amy looked lovely, I’m pretty sure the lines were taken straight from an episode, Gary saying it to Dorothy.

[ori-STUDFARM]

I thought it was more like Rimmer’s Self Loathing Creature than Despair Squid

[NitroChrisUK]

did anyone spot any of the time cracks in the episode last night ?

[hummingbird]

> Anyway, I rather liked that despite the rather large central problem that Upper Leadworth was never going to be reality (a shame they over-egged it with making Amy pregnant). The Dream Lord stuff was interesting. Not sure about the final reveal as it creates the problem that it was all a big joke with no real danger, but the self-loathing that the Doctor seems to feel for himself is certainly an interesting aspect.

This.

[ChrisM]

>I thought it was more like Rimmer’s Self Loathing Creature than Despair Squid

A bit of both really. It was a dream (Despair Squid) but controlled by the (self loathing) Dream Lord . Oh and a bit of a twist reminiscent of a certain film* at the end too.

I guessed the twist relating to the dream(s) but not the identity of the Dream Lord.

* I won’t say which film in case you haven’t seen it yet and it gets spoiled. Here are clues in case you’ve seen it: Vietnam. Freaky demon people. Cherubic doctor.

[Carlito]

About halfway through I started to suspect the Dream Lord was an alter ego of the Doctor, but I thought he was doing it deliberately and knowingly (to force Amy to confront her feelings for Rory), and we were set for a Queeg-type reveal at the end.

So I kinda sussed out that twist, although I didn’t expect both to be dream worlds. It definitely felt a little familiar as a Red Dwarf fan (“well we’re back in real life now – oh wait, no we’re not!!” a la Better Than Life, Back to Reality, Back In The Red pt 3).

Still I actually quite enjoyed it because it had a different feel. It all felt a little disconnected but in a good way, which made it interesting. I may be inclined to say this was my 2nd favourite episode so far this series (after the 2-parter) but it warrants a second viewing before I commit to an Earth-shattering statement like that!

[pfm]

Something I’ve realised about this series, I’m really on edge during each episode, it never feels ‘safe’. This didn’t happen much during the Tennant era where sometimes I was stifling yawns left right and centre, there wasn’t enough intrigue or danger. Yeah you’d get it sometimes, particularly with Moffat’s episodes an then select others like Midnight.

Part of this has to do with Matt’s Doctor and also Amy and now Rory – there’s plenty that we want to know that hasn’t been revealed yet, giving us mysteries that we want to tune in for AS WELL AS seeing the monster of the week and all the fluff that goes with that. Moffat is delivering the series as one glorious whole.

In the past we didn’t really give a toss what happened with Rose or Martha’s stories (did we? and did they even have much of a story really??) though RTD decided to shake it up a bit with Donna in Turn Left and her ending. Moffat has placed the characters’ journeys above everything else this season.

[Dave]

Did anyone else enter the Big Finish not-a-competition writing opportunity?

This is my scripted scene for the Fifth Doctor & Nyssa audio play:
http://davewrotethis.blogspot.com/2010/05/big-script.html

This is my short trip:
http://davewrotethis.blogspot.com/2010/05/short-trip.html

[genericnerdyusername]

No, no, NO!

That should not have happened. :(

[Nick R]

First game episode out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/theadventuregames/download/cityofthedaleks

Downloading now…

[Somebody]

Note that it’s still an “in testing” release – basically, a last-minute public beta – rather than the absolutely final version which will go live on Saturday.

BBC explains early Doctor Who release

[David M]

Just watched “Vincent and the Doctor”, and I have to say Tony Curran as Vincent Van Cough was brilliant!

I didn’t notice any cracks in this episode, did anyone else?

[pfm]

I think there was a crack in the first painting we saw him doing. Not sure, I’ll have to check that later.

[Andrew]

There wasn’t a crack in Vampires either, aside from the dialogue mention. The cloud thing is all viewer rorschaching.

[genericnerdyusername]

There was a crack in the Tardis lock in Vampires, wasn’t there? Or was that a different episode?

EDIT Oh no I’m quite wrong.

[Jonsmad]

Well that was a bit world cup tie in then. Hard to sympathise with Corden’s character given I’ve not seen G&S, think his world cup anthem is shit, and didnt like to see him and Patrick Stewart spatting at that award ceremony. Given all that I’d have been happy enough if the room upstairs had swallowed him, he was capable of much more sympathetic acting in cruise of the gods before fame went to his head. Matt Smith continues to be brilliant. The trailer at the end has got me pysched up for next week.

[pfm]

> Hard to sympathise with Corden’s character given I’ve not seen G&S, think his world cup anthem is shit, and didnt like to see him and Patrick Stewart spatting at that award ceremony.

D’you know, even though he’s been so in-your-face recently I still managed to buy him playing a character in this easily enough. I really wish he’d just stick to doing this kind of thing though. He thinks he’s an actor, writer, presenter, comedian, singer, everything. It just makes everyone want him off their screens when in fact we should have been looking forward to seeing him in ‘The Lodger’.

[Pete Part Three]

This series has failed to grab me as I thought it would do, mainly because it hasn’t had a run of excellent episodes, and the second two parter was so awful. I was looking forward to something on a par with Series Three, but this failed to build much momentum. I’m actually having a hard time with Amy. She showed promise in the first few episodes but the rest of the time has seemed to alternate between smugness and that wide-eyed expression.

That said, I rather liked The Lodger. I detest Corden “the celebrity” with a passion, but am fairly indifferent to him when he’s acting. This was an entertaining story although the finale felt rushed and underwritten. Not sure I buy the Doctor airkissing people. There’s a fine line between eccentricity and idiocy.

The Eleventh Hour : 4/5
The Beast Below : 3/5
Victory of the Daleks : 2/5
The Time of Angels : 3/5
Flesh and Stone : 3/5
Vampires in Venice : 2/5
Amy’s Choice : 4/5
The Hungry Earth P1 : 1/5
Cold Blood : 2/5
Vincent and the Doctor : 3/5
The Lodger : 4/5

[redhead85]

For me, the whole series feels like it’s slipped out of order somehow. That the action and underlying thread built to a crescendo (with The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood – especially the ending with pulling the Tardis piece out of the crack) and has then fallen off again for the last two episodes.

I’d have rewritten the odd line (to allow for the loss of Rory) and slotted the last two weeks episodes earlier in the series – perhaps with Vincent as the new episode four and The Lodger as the new episode six. That way – the first few episodes of the series are suitably dramatic enough to reel in new viewers, and then you get a steady build up to the finale. I was left this week thinking ‘is it really the beginning of the finale next week?’ The only thing that had me geared up was the trailer!

[Somebody]

So, what, pushing all three two-parters into the back half of the series, with the last two running consecutively?

I can see the argument for pulling The Lodger forward to, say, ep 4 (filming realities notwithstanding) and arranging for the ring-finding scene (the only part which has to be post-Rory) to be at the end of Vincent & the Doctor – where the “not crying” scene would have been fresher in the non-hardcore fans’ minds, but that “not crying” scene is absolutely essential, and you need SOME pause between THE/CB and TPO/TBB.

[redhead85]

> So, what, pushing all three two-parters into the back half of the series, with the last two running consecutively?

Why not? It worked perfectly well in Red Dwarf series VIII and OH WAIT

No, I didn’t mean all three two-parters at the end (my bad if I intimated that), Vampires in Venice and Amy’s Choice would still precede Hungry Earth etc. I guess I felt disappointed in how little reference there came in Vincent and the Doctor (i.e. at this late stage, no appearance of the crack etc)

Yes indeed, the crying inside bit is intriguing but really that line can be said by any vaguely psychic character in any incarnation of a late solus episode, not necessarily Vincent. After all, the 10th Doctor’s prophecy was given to him by a woman on a bus – random. I guess the (as you put it) ‘pause’ episode between the pair of two-parters in my opinion should have still maintained some form of energy and urgency which I guess I felt the Vincent episode was lacking.

[Andrew]

> After all, the 10th Doctor’s prophecy was given to him by a woman on a bus

I wouldn’t hold that up as a particularly good example of arc-building…

Anyway, I wouldn’t trade the amazing undertone that Vincent’s depression is akin to mourning the loss of someone you don’t remember for anything. And certainly not so we can skip over the loss of a companion in order to keep the cracks-in-time truck rolling at top speed.

The idea that the episode could be adjusted by ‘a few lines’ to account for Rory seems to miss so much of what was implicit. SO much of that episode is about Amy’s loss. That it’s not hammered away in literal dialogue doesn’t mean it’s not there.

I don’t think you can equate an entire episode about intangible pain with a single line of thrown-in dialogue.

[redhead85]

> After all, the 10th Doctor’s prophecy was given to him by a woman on a bus

> I wouldn’t hold that up as a particularly good example of arc-building…

Nor would I – I used it in the context of demonstrating that it doesn’t necessarily have to be characters of great standing who deliver the most powerful lines – lines that are central to the slow reveal.

> I don’t think you can equate an entire episode about intangible pain with a single line of thrown-in dialogue.

I wasn’t trying to, sorry if it seemed that way. I thought it was a great episode but for me the positioning (combined with The Lodger) seemed to wind down everything that bit too much before the finale – as per my original point, I almost felt a sense of surprise to learn that next week was the begining of the end as ’twere compared to the earlier DW series.

It’s only an opinion – other people might have found the action across the series to be perfectly paced. But I thought I’d air my thoughts on it.

[pfm]

The past two episodes reminded me of how several times during The X-Files run you would get massive, earth-shattering arc events and revelations then next episode straight back to monster-of-the-week fare, and it often felt jarring. At least there have been some references to the main story within VatD and TL, no matter how small. Not to mention the fact that these have been two of the season’s best.

‘Victory of the Daleks’ aside (can we flush that one out an airlock please?) the only real balls-up this series is the sheer mediocrity of 90% of ‘The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood’. I know some people got a kick out of how classic series (specifically Pertwee) some of it felt but, frankly, it bored the arse off me. The good ending was sitting there, and probably Moffat-penned, but the rest was the only time it’s felt like autopilot on, yeah this’ll do etc.

The finale is obviously where the money lies, both literally in terms of budget and in delivering what we’ve been waiting for since ‘The Eleventh Hour’ (gonna watch it again before Saturday).

[Pete Part Three]

Normal service has been resumed. I am watching World Cup Live and I hate James Corden again. Phew.

[hummingbird]

I’ve only just seen The Lodger, but I’d say it was easily the best episode for the past few weeks.
The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood was disappointingly dull – I mean it *should* have been good, but never quite got there, and even Vincent wasn’t especially exciting for me.
There definitely has been a lull … I kind of lost the impetus to watch it as it was broadcast over the last few weeks, but I absolutely loved this last ep.

[Pongo]

The revelation of the TARDIS shard should definitely have come last week, as the lack of the crack has made the impending finale seem sudden. Still, the Lodger is one of my favorites of this season. For those keeping score, my favorites have been:

The Time of Angels
Amy’s Choice
The Hungry Earth
The Lodger

[Nick R]

Pete Part Three:

The Eleventh Hour : 4/5
The Beast Below : 3/5
Victory of the Daleks : 2/5
The Time of Angels : 3/5
Flesh and Stone : 3/5
Vampires in Venice : 2/5
Amy’s Choice : 4/5
The Hungry Earth P1 : 1/5
Cold Blood : 2/5
Vincent and the Doctor : 3/5
The Lodger : 4/5

My scores would generally be a point or two higher than yours: I’d give 5s to The Eleventh Hour and the Angels two-parter, and The Beast Below and Vincent and the Doctor would both get 4. And The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood would only be 1’s relative to the rest of this series – neither of them came close to “Fear Her” levels of badness.

[Jonathan Capps]

For what it’s worth, using the time old tradition:

Utopia >>> The Lodger > Boom Town >>>>> Turn Left

[Pete Part Three]

>and the Angels two-parter

See, I like the Angels Two-parter. But I can’t help thinking that, despite the fantastic opening of TTOA, it went off the boil quickly. My main stumbling block with Flesh and Stone is that the stuff with the angels gets derailed by the crack stuff…and manages to be far more interesting.

>Utopia >>> The Lodger > Boom Town >>>>> Turn Left

Yup. Although waking up to find a dog doing a shit in your mouth is better than Turn Left.

[Ian Symes]

Fuck me.

[Carlito]

That was even more epic than RTD’s bombastic big ‘uns.

Hang on… Russell T. Davies’ Bombastic Big ‘Uns… thats a spin-off book too far isnt it…

Will Doctor Who showrunners ever tire of falling back on the Daleks and/or Cybermen for virtually every series finale? I get it, they’re his main antagonists, but they could be used more sparingly.

Still, that has no bearing on the quality of the episode which I thought was one of the best of this series. Niiiice cliffhanger.

[genericnerdyusername]

Loved it. Can’t wait for next weeks!

[hummingbird]

Yes, yes, and OMFG YES !

[pfm]

The Cybermen scary for the first time in new Who? For that reason alone I rate ‘The Pandorica Opens’ extremely highly. Then there’s…well, just about everything else in the episode, which was amazing!!

Roman Rory is a friggin’ Auton! Amy’s dead!! (we’ll see…:D)

All the enemies teaming up is a little hard to buy (particularly the Daleks’ involvement, they’re coming across so pathetic atm) but you can’t fault the way it was pulled off.

How in the holy heck do you get out of the cliffhanger?? Er, apart from using the vortex manipulator that was set up earlier in the episode…

[ChrisM]

I liked it a lot. I loved how they tied together characters from various episodes at the start… . And they used a Hitchiker’s Guide gag too with the big writing on the cliff-face! (I wonder if that was intentional or just a coincidence?)

And a nice twist at the end, although I guessed the identity of the most dangerous being in the universe. Except I thought it might be a future (or rather possible future) insane version rather than who we got.

[Ben Paddon]

I’ve spent all afternoon trying to work out why the sound the mechanical Cyberman head makes is so bloody familiar. Then it occurred to me – it’s the “laughing” sound the Skutter made when Rimmer’s photo went from LEVEL to NOT LEVEL in “Back to Earth”.

[Ridley]

Will Doctor Who showrunners ever tire of falling back on the Daleks and/or Cybermen for virtually every series finale? I get it, they’re his main antagonists, but they could be used more sparingly.

I’m still waiting on the Raston Warrior Robot to return. I’m sure a full story could be built around them.

…pandoricaopensdidntreallydomuchforme…

[pfm]

Ha Ben you’re right!

Plenty of times on new Who I’ve heard certain library sound effects that I (very sadly, I know) recognise from other shows and games. Don’t know if anyone’s played Perfect Dark or Morrowind but sounds from both have definitely been in Who. A noticeable one in ‘The Eleventh Hour’ is the sound coming from the crashed Tardis when young Amelia approaches it, it’s the Morrowind dungeon background fx! Spell casting sounds get used a lot too.

[Ben Paddon]

Will Doctor Who showrunners ever tire of falling back on the Daleks and/or Cybermen for virtually every series finale? I get it, they’re his main antagonists, but they could be used more sparingly.

I think the episode would have felt odd without them, to be honest. “Yes, Doctor, we are an alliance of your deadliest enemies! Except the Daleks. They weren’t in when we called. And I think the Cybermen are watching the football tonight. But apart form them, muahahahaha, etc.!”

[redhead85]

That episode was MADE of fucking win. And a fantastic cliffhanger. The Doctor’s challenge speech to the ships really gave me the chills as did seeing the crack on the screen of the Tardis. And the moment they put the Doctor in the Pandorica was awesome on a stick.

Loved the fact they drew the threads from the rest of the series all together. Nicely done. Can’t wait for next week!

[ChrisM]

I think the Doctor’s defiant speechifying is the one thing I’m not keen on in these series. I understand while it makes the hair rise on other people’s back though, it’s certainly dramatic.

I found it amusing when they turned the joke back on him in The Lodger. “I’m the oncoming storm! Oh wait, you meant…”
(Not exact words not having a photographic memory.)

[redhead85]

> I found it amusing when they turned the joke back on him in The Lodger. “Not on my watch. I’m the Doctor, I am the oncoming storm and…you meant the football, didn’t you…?”

I did snort with laughter at that bit. And I’d say that was a bit of piss-taking on Curtis’s part.

[Author]

Replies