DWM Mighty 200 Poll

[si]

Any surprises? To be honest, I watched #200, The Twin Dilemma, just last week, and think everyone’s a bit hard on it. I do like the story at #1, though (I’ll not say what it was in case anyone’s not aware of what it is yet).

Topic

[JamesTC]

‘The Twin Dilemma’ certainly did not deserve to be so low, ask me last week and I would have said it did but a re-evaluation on DVD means I can see it isn’t so bad, it was never going to be classic Who and it is by no means good Who! I would rate it below average, but only just below, I would give it a 4/10, thing is I would rate a fair few other stories lower, probably 20 or so, it would still be low for me but it doesn’t deserve all the flak it gets, I can certainly watch and enjoy it.

#25 should have been in the top 10 for me, I never knew it fared so badly in the polls.

#1 was a big shock, I have just ordered it on DVD though so I can give it a re-evaluation from the last time I watched it though I thought it was brilliant the last time I seen it I didn’t think it could be given the title of no.1 Doctor Who story.

My biggest shock in the poll was #147, I loved that story, hold it in very high regard, plus from what I have seen it was a popular story, to see it so low down is a big, big shock!

#156 was quite odd aswell, I mean I know only 2 surviving episodes exist but from what does exist it is brilliant, works so well even with 4 episodes missing.

#107 was weird too, I certainly thought it was better than that place, especially considering #99 which was quite poor and followed #107.

Oh and lets raise a glass for ‘A fix with the Sontarans’ and ‘Dimensions in Time’ which gained the worst Doctor Who story mantle.

So what cover did people get, I made sure I got ‘The Caves of Androzani’, it was a toss-up between that or ‘Human Nature’ and I decided on ‘The Caves of Androzani’ because it was first on the shelf, all 4 were there but I don’t have ?12 to spend on extra covers.

[Dave]

>?The Twin Dilemma? certainly did not deserve to be so low…I would give it a 4/10

Due to the way that the scores were compiled, The Twin Dilemma got 82 ’10’s and the most ‘1’s of any story, averaging out at 3.844 out of ten. Therefore if the rest of the scores remained the same and The Twin Dilemma were 4/10 it would still not trouble the Top 199.

I’m very much looking forward to the DVD releases of #16, #17 & #34, I’ve seen them before but it’s been too long.

I was surprised to see The Daleks as Hartnell’s highest placed story, on the assumption that it’s sequel would be more popular.

The Power Of The Daleks beating Spearhead From Space & The Christmas Invasion as best-performing new Doctor story is interesting, considering its absence from the archives.

But of course, most importantly, it’s all bollocks. A lot of people will have given #3 a ’10’, #187 to #200 a ‘1’ as a knee-jerk reaction and DWM received forms completely filled with ‘1’s and ‘2’s, by twats.

[JamesTC]

>DWM received forms completely filled with ?1?s and ?2?s, by twats.

Yeh, people who haven’t seen the classic series or just don’t like it will fill it with 1s and 2s and vice-versa, they even mentioned that they had some full of 1s and 2s in part of it.

>Due to the way that the scores were compiled, The Twin Dilemma got 82 ?10?s and the most ?1?s of any story, averaging out at 3.844 out of ten. Therefore if the rest of the scores remained the same and The Twin Dilemma were 4/10 it would still not trouble the Top 199.

As I said I would have rated the rest lower, certainly ‘Time and the Rani’ would have got a 1, ‘Power of the Kroll’ too.
It would have been a little annoying with ‘Utopia’ because that episode is bloody fantastic, probably an 8/10 if not a 9/10 but ‘The Sound of Drums’/’Gollum goes the Circus’ would have got a 1/10, together it is about a 3-4/10 but it really isn’t fair on ‘Utopia’, I mean the writer himself says he thinks it is two stories!
I think that ‘Turn Left’ and ‘The Stolen Earth’/’Journeys End’ should have been put as one instead if they so must consider ‘Planet of the Dead’ #200, I mean they finished together.

[si]

I didn’t have a choice of covers, being a subscriber, but I got #1 anyway.

I wish I’d kept a copy of my votes.

[JamesTC]

I didn’t vote! Too lazy and didn’t want to rip out a page of the mag.

>but I got #1 anyway.

So do you love ‘City of Death’?

[si]

Oh, er, yeah.

[Dave]

In addition to scoring very highly in the DWM Mighty 200, Alan Greenspan just said that Human Nature caused the global financial crisis.

[The PerformingMonkey]

I was fully expecting Blink to be #1 seeing as it seems compulsory for several thousand fanboys to masturbate over it daily. RTD should have seen this coming and sneakily edited Moffat’s script changing ‘Blink’ to ‘Wank’ at every instance. Doubt it would have won the Hugo Award then. ‘Don’t wank. Don’t even wank. Wank and you’re dead. Don’t turn your back, don’t look away and DON’T WANK!’

Incidentally has everyone seen this, the whole of the Doctor’s side of the video – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDYJR9vQprI

Watching that it sinks in that Tennant (and indeed Moffat) on form will never be beaten by anyone. Crap like Planet of the Dead makes me hate Tennant (along with the fact that my girlfriend fancies the long streak of slash). Class like Blink and Midnight make me love him.

[JamesTC]

>?Don?t wank. Don?t even wank. Wank and you?re dead. Don?t turn your back, don?t look away and DON?T WANK!?

If Moffat written for Torchwood.

[Dave]

>If Moffat written for Torchwood.

“Don?t dance. Don?t even dance. Dance and you?re dead. Don?t turn your back, don?t look away and DON?T DANCE!”

[Seb Patrick]

>DWM received forms completely filled with ?1?s and ?2?s, by twats.

Doctor Who fans being twats? YOU LIE.

[JamesTC]

In the entire poll only 2 new series episodes improved on earlier ratings. Interesting.

[Andrew]

I was pleased by #17, disappointed by #96 and really surprised by the way #9 was placed ahead of #72 but behind #4 – I mean what IS the world coming to?!

Okay, no, I haven’t even seen it. But I’d be interested in this discussion if I could fucking understand it! :-)

[JamesTC]

I was just putting the numbers down because people get tetchy about spoilers even if it is for a poll so I didn’t want to spoil it, people with the mag can just look ’em up.

[Andrew]

Thus kinda restricting the conversation to those who have the mag…

Are poll results really considered spoilers?!

[Dave]

>I was pleased by #17, disappointed by #96 and really surprised by the way #9 was placed ahead of #72 but behind #4 – I mean what IS the world coming to?!

Allow me to translate, you just said:

I was pleased by Terror Of The Zygons, disappointed by The Hand Of Fear and really surprised by the way The Robots Of Death was placed ahead of Enlightenment but behind The Talons Of Weng-Chiang – I mean what IS the world coming to?!

And I don’t suppose (m)any people are worried about spoilers save for maybe the top ten.

[Danny Stephenson]

I like #4, #9, #16, #25, and #36 purely because they’re square. Likewise with #34, #55, #144 and #89 as they are part of the Fibonacci Sequence.

However, #119, #31, #89, #113, and #47 can just fuck right off. They’re just primes and not worth my time…

[Dave]

>and not worth my time?

I’m not looking them up again.

[JamesTC]

>And I don?t suppose (m)any people are worried about spoilers save for maybe the top ten.

A bunch of people on GaliifreyBase got pissy ass when people mentioned when a story got placed were saying they didn’t have the mag yet, I just didn’t want to spoil it, if I should then alright, ‘Caves of Androzani’ fucking won.

[JamesTC]

>I like #4, #9, #16, #25, and #36 purely because they?re square. Likewise with #34, #55, #144 and #89 as they are part of the Fibonacci Sequence.
However, #119, #31, #89, #113, and #47 can just fuck right off. They?re just primes and not worth my time?

You like ‘Talons of Weng Chiang’, ‘The Robots of Death’, ‘The Seeds of Doom’, ‘The Tomb of the Cybermen’ and ‘Spearhead from Space’ because they’re sqaure. And ‘The Daemons’, ‘The Tenth Planet’, ‘The Reign of Terror’ and ‘Planet of the Spiders’ as they are part of the Fibonacci Sequence.

And ‘The Greatest Show in the Galaxy’, ‘The Invasion’, ‘Planet of the Spiders’ (again), ‘Frontier in Space’ and ‘The Time Warrior’ can fuck right off.

[Andrew]

See, I can understand not wanting story spoilers. There’s execution, the emotional journey, not just what happens but how, how it’s performed, how it’s realised. But where’s the spoiler in a bloody list?! “Oh man, it’s not tat Blink did so well, it’s that you can really see the journey it went on by looking at it as part of a list…”

Regardless, GaliifreyBase peeps, if a thread’s called Poll Results (or whatever), apply some common sense and don’t click it.

[JamesTC]

These are mine now converted –
‘The Tomb of the Cybermen’ should have been in the top 10 for me, I never knew it fared so badly in the polls.

‘The Caves of Androzani’ was a big shock, I have just ordered it on DVD though so I can give it a re-evaluation from the last time I watched it though I thought it was brilliant the last time I seen it I didn?t think it could be given the title of no.1 Doctor Who story.

My biggest shock in the poll was ‘The Sun Makers’, I loved that story, hold it in very high regard, plus from what I have seen it was a popular story, to see it so low down is a big, big shock!

‘The Wheel in Space’ was quite odd aswell, I mean I know only 2 surviving episodes exist but from what does exist it is brilliant, works so well even with 4 episodes missing.

‘The Next Doctor’ was weird too, I certainly thought it was better than that place, especially considering ‘Planet of the Dead’ which was quite poor but got better and followed it ‘The Next Doctor’.

Looking at where ‘Planet of the Dead’, I do think it is new episode syndrome and will be placed much lower next poll, certainly below ‘The Next Doctor’, I can’t see how people would prefer it to ‘Planet of the Dead’.

[Andrew]

Planet of the Dead isn’t fit to be trampled under The Next Doctor’s CyberKing-sized boots.

[The PerformingMonkey]

Both of them are mostly crap. I was so disappointed with The Next Doctor I think I’m still hurting. David Morrissey was pretty good but that’s about it. The Cybus Cybermen are utterly dire, that’s been proven again and again and I hope they’re gone for good.

Planet of the Dead was good for one thing and one thing only – Michelle Ryan’s arse. To think they ferried a big red bus all the way to Dubai for that fucker, AND got it smashed up in the process. Oh hang on, Lee Evans was quite good too! I take it all back. I want that episode to have my children, five of them, and in HD too.

[JamesTC]

Lee Evans was one of the bad parts of ‘Planet of the Dead’.

[Ben Paddon]

Lee Evans saved Planet Of The Dead. He’s the one redeeming feature in the entire episode.

[Pete Part Three]

Remove the Cybermen from The Next Doctor (admittedly a pretty large chunk of the episode) and it would have been really good. If you removed the ropey stuff from Planet of the Dead, you’d be left with the opening titles and Michelle Ryan pouting.

[si]

As DWM said at the time, POTD was a Doctor Who Special that just wasn’t special. As a regular 45min episode, it would’ve been fine.

[Pete Part Three]

Fine = The Lazarus Experiment.

[The PerformingMonkey]

> Lee Evans was one of the bad parts of ?Planet of the Dead?.

Oh why don’t you just eat out a mouse or something?

[Pete Part Three]

So, where DID Blink come?

[JamesTC]

Second.

[Pete Part Three]

Now we know.

[The PerformingMonkey]

At 13, The Stolen Earth/Journey’s End is ridiculously high. The Girl In The Fireplace(11) and Turn Left(12) are also too high, even though they’re both great.

City(8) and Pyramids(9) again too high. I would place various Troughton, Pertwee and indeed Eccleston and Tennant episodes above them! Earthshock should be above City of Death IMO.

Not that it’s worth arguing about. At all. Especially when you consider the reality of something like, say, the Silence In The Library 2-parter eclipsing 99% of classic Who in just about every regard. This being one of the top moments in all of Who.

[JamesTC]

‘Silence in the Library’ is better than were it was placed but 99% of classic Who? Ha! Most of SitL was great but I don’t think much of Song which I think is the stories failing, she seems too much like Bernice Summerfield for my tastes.
‘The Stolen Earth’/’Journeys End’ while it is the only new series finale I liked I don’t think it should be placed that high, like ‘Planet of the Dead’ I think it has new episode syndrome.
I think ‘Turn Left’ deserved to be high, I would rate it just a few places lower, maybe 5 or 6 places.
‘The Time Meddler’ wasn’t placed very high, thought that deserved to be higher, shame, it is my favourite Hartnell.

Oh and ‘The Space Pirates’ didn’t do well, I just got the narrated soundtrack today so I will see if it really deserves to be so low, going by the existing episode it doesn’t.

[Pete Part Three]

I refuse to believe there are only 11 episodes better than Turn Left.

[The PerformingMonkey]

> ?Silence in the Library? is better than were it was placed but 99% of classic Who?

99% IS perhaps pushing it a little, but it’s a simple fact that only the cream of classic Who beats (in overall terms) stuff like the Library 2-parter, Blink (*takes out cock*), The Parting of the Ways, The Impossible Planet, Midnight, Human Nature/FoB, Turn Left, The Girl In The Fireplace, Father’s Day, The Empty Child/TDD amongst others.

The last episode of Caves is as good as anything ever featured in classic Who, but does that make the whole thing a great story? The best Who story ever?? I prefer The Mind Robber.

[si]

I love Pyramids of Mars – the first Who DVD I ever bought.

Don’t really know why I mention this now, but what the hell.

[Tarka Dal]

> she seems too much like Bernice Summerfield for my tastes.

Who?

[si]

Bernice Summerfield was a companion created for the audios, who has since gone on to have her own series of audio adventures.

I don’t follow BFAs myself – never had the money – though I’d like to start. But I’m so anal, I’d want to get them in order, hence the one I do have is The Sirens of Time, although I have been recording the Paul McGann ones off Radio 7 the past 2 weeks.

[JamesTC]

>Bernice Summerfield was a companion created for the audios, who has since gone on to have her own series of audio adventures.

Bernice Summerfield was a companion created for the virgin novels and adapted for audios in 1998.

[si]

That’s what I meant.

[Phil1034]

> she seems too much like Bernice Summerfield for my tastes.

But is that necessarily a bad thing, since Benny will probably never be exposed to a wider audience?

[JamesTC]

>But is that necessarily a bad thing, since Benny will probably never be exposed to a wider audience?

I don’t really think you can use that as an excuse.
Look, an not very well known song from 1997, I will just steal the lyrics and record it as my own, just change a few lines and everything will be fine!

[Tarka Dal]

Is she really THAT much like this Bernice then?

I find it extremely unlikely that Steven Moffat would just lift a character. Yeah I know I’m one of the most zealot-like Moffat fans on here, but I honestly feel that. The idea that you shouldn’t use a particularly character or story on the TV because something even vaguely similar occured in one of the spin-offs books or audio series strikes me as a bit odd. There’s only so many ideas/types of people etc out there.

[JamesTC]

The basic outline for Bernice – A 26th century archeologist who is the Doctors most long lasting and faithful companion who may or may not have had a sexual/marital relationship with the Doctor though it is hinted at in her last novel with the Doctor.

River is a 26th century archeologist who is a long lasting companion (atleast 2 incarnations if not the one after, it is hinted at as well as that big TARDIS shaped book) who may or may not have a sexual/marital relationship with the Doctor though it is hinted at in ‘Silence in the Library’/’Forest of the Dead’.

[Tarka Dal]

One of my points being however that saying we should never be allowed a character who shows some of these characteristics…

> long lasting and faithful companion

> may not have had a sexual/marital relationships

Because a character like that exists in the extended universe that a considerable amount of fans and casual viewers haven’t seen, just seems silly.

[JamesTC]

Qualities like that could be attributed to Rose (well the sexual bit) and she is nothing like Bernice. Mixed with the 26th century archeologist it just seems hard to think that he wasn’t atleast inspired by Bernice.

[Dave]

River is a 51st century archeologist who may well be a long lasting companion, we only hear of about three encounters. All the big TARDIS shaped book signifies is that the Doctor is very important to her, not the other way around. There is no evidence yet that she has met other incarnations than the Tenth Doctor, merely that the first time he met her was the last time she met him, therefore the future adventures she alludes to may all fit between the episodes of the current run of specials. There is a hint that they have a very close relationship but apart from her knowing his actual name, it doesn’t get any more explicit and could simply be that because her past is his future and she doesn’t normally have the upper hand when they meet. Alex Kingston has done some filming for Series 5, but until we know for definite that she is playing River again there’s no way to predict the relationship with the Eleventh Doctor.

River isn’t as funny as Benny, Benny doesn’t have the mystery angle of River, the characters share a career and not a huge amount more.

[JamesTC]

River is from the 51st century? Oh I need to rewatch ‘Silence in the Library’.

[Author]

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