Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Erm… Red Dwarf 1-5 Blurays!?

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  • #214022
    AdamBeardTC
    Participant

    I was under the impression this would never happen. Any official news anywhere about this?

    #214023
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Not seen anything on this. What a weird thing, especially doing individual series releases. You could fit a tonne of SD content (maybe everything from 1 to VIII?) on a couple of Blu-ray discs…

    #214024
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Would be strange and a little unprecedented.

    They upscaled Doctor Who Series 1-4 and releases them separately on Blu-Ray so I guess it can happen.

    Perhaps they looked at the sales of Red Dwarf on DVD/BR and thought it was a good test for the market and also a good tie in for the new series.

    #214027
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    You could fit a tonne of SD content (maybe everything from 1 to VIII?) on a couple of Blu-ray discs…

    As memory serves, the BDA specifically disallows the release of purely SD content – it has to be upscaled or otherwise “enhanced” for high-def viewing. When my dad worked for Disney they ran into issues with this as they’d wanted to put out a Bluray set of one of their old Saturday morning offerings – one disc containing the entire show – but they were shot down, and releasing a multi-disc set wasn’t considered worth the money it’d spend to produce at the time (2009, I believe).

    I can’t tell you which show it was, mind, but it was a pretty hectic time over at Disney. Life was like a hurricane.

    #214028
    Ridley
    Participant

    #214029
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    As memory serves, the BDA specifically disallows the release of purely SD content

    This seems so backwards. Stuff like putting a whole run of an SD series on one disc is incredibly appealing. The players do the upscaling well enough. Even the PS3 makes old Dwarf DVDs look lovely on a massive HDTV.

    #214030
    Dax101
    Participant
    #214031
    Dax101
    Participant

    Video
    Codec: TBA
    Resolution: 1080p
    Original aspect ratio: 1.78:1, 1.33:1

    Audio
    TBA

    Subtitles
    None

    Discs
    Blu-ray Disc
    Two-disc set (2 BD)

    Playback
    Region B (A, C untested)

    #214032
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    Just saw this on blu-ray.com and literally RACED over here. WHAT THE FUCK?

    TOS tomorrow. OR ELSE!

    #214033
    JamesTC
    Participant

    >This seems so backwards. Stuff like putting a whole run of an SD series on one disc is incredibly appealing

    I do understand the position that they don’t want to confuse the consumer with SD on an HD format. But it has surely been long enough now that people understand the difference. Slap a big label on it that clearly indicated it isn’t HD and you’re sorted.

    And SD series on Blu-Ray would surely be appealing to a market in which people want things to take less room but still want the physical products. Imagine only needing 26 Blu-Rays on the shelf instead of over 140 DVDs for Classic Doctor Who.

    This appears to be a little more common in America. Certainly they have released The Simpsons on Blu-Ray and that was only SD up to Season 20.

    #214034

    Let’s play ‘who fucked up somewhere’ for the 683rd time.

    I think this is an error. Every so often rogue pages go up for updated boxsets, single disc editions and so on and its usually an over-eager member of some admin team down the line at the end of a particularly mumbly game of Chinese, Asian and Southern Hemisphere whispers.

    But if it isn’t, why on Earth put out blu-rays of Red Dwarf?

    Series I to VI do not upscale well and I’ve tried my level best with the DVDs. In fact, nothing upscales well, you can’t make new information out of nothing.

    However, what you can do, and I’ve alluded to this before in previous topics is push standard definition video to its fullest capability on blu-ray.

    You can de-interlace the video and present those 50 interlaced fields as 50 full, progressive frames. Upscale to 720 or 1080p and de-noise when and where necessary. Trim out the black bars on all 4 sides to utilise the entire viewing area. Colour correct and bring back some detail lost in the darkness and glare to a reasonable extent. You can be sure that blu-ray compression doesn’t get in the way of the image onscreen as sometimes seen in DVDs with heavy compression to fit all of the episodes onto one disc.

    There’s always the Star Trek – The Next Generation route which is to utlilise the original footage and re-cut the episodes. Having watched a fair few of them, it’s genuinely night and day when you put the SD and HD transfers side by side.

    There’s all of that and so much more you can do with standard definition footage in the realm of blu-ray but ultimately, I know they won’t. If these are upscales, then there’ll be upscales and nothing more.

    I really should release the tests I made for The End. I had it looking like the remasters but without the fucking shite they put in, cut out and just tweaked for tweaking’s sake.

    #214035
    Somebody
    Participant

    This wouldn’t surprise me – plenty of shows, like Who and Life On Mars, have had upscaled BDs, why not Dwarf for better or worse? – but I wouldn’t be buying them. There’s a small difference that could be made by using professional-grade upscaling equipment on uncompressed video compared to consumer-grade real-time stuff on MPEG-2 DVD video, but enough to warrant paying for the shows all over again? I think not.

    (And that’s before you consider that whatever they did to the spacial resolution of the episodes, BDs almost universally fuck up the temporal resolution of UK material because US players don’t support 50i and the BD spec doesn’t support 25p at all, so they mostly get converted to 60i or 24p)

    There’s always the Star Trek – The Next Generation route which is to utlilise the original footage and re-cut the episodes. Having watched a fair few of them, it’s genuinely night and day when you put the SD and HD transfers side by side.

    Uh… no, there isn’t. TNG, they went back to the original 35mm film rushes, rescanned them in HD and reedited the episodes from scratch. That literally isn’t an option for Dwarf, because it was almost all recorded on SD video. (And whether that small amount of film – model shots, primarily – even still exists is questionable. IIRC, they wanted to scan the original film passes of the small rouge one for Back to Earth, but couldn’t find them and had to hack together a low-poly CGI model they could only “shoot” from a distance on low budget)

    #214036
    JamesTC
    Participant

    If they can get Terrorform unedited then it’ll be worth the whole thing, I’m sure you’ll all agree.

    #214037
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    IF this isn’t a cock-up, would love to see:

    – Extended episodes using deleted scenes
    – Remastered ep option for S1-3
    – Optional intergrated documentary segments while you watch the eps

    Basically put the bodysnatcher content across the relevant discs.

    #214038
    Dax101
    Participant

    I doubt we will get new extras or extended episodes for this.

    I wouldn’t mind if they put money into clearing up the picture quality though, smoothing over some effect shots for example, i mean don’t give doug money to remaster it because we seen what happens there but just clean it up a little

    #214039

    I meant in a more obtuse sense, for example, going back to the studio rushes and re-editing from there. It’ll ensure there are zero drops in tape generation as shots, fades and effects would now be composited digitally and as a result, the final master of each episode will be as clean and clear as one can hope for when utilising SD video. Of course, upon thinking about it, even that is dodgy as there’s a very low chance of those analogue-era effects and so on being accessible again, let alone being able to reconstruct an accurate soundtrack. Remastered didn’t have to worry about such concerns, but we know how that turned out, didn’t we? DIDN’T WE.

    Alas, the best we can hope for is a comprehensive hose down, polish and silk capping of the original broadcast masters.

    #214040

    Oh for fuck sake, I dunno how I bollocked up quotes there but clearly, I bollocked up quotes mightily.

    Bollocks.

    #214041
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Maybe they’re going to go back and enhance the old episodes with new special effects shots and extra jokes to appeal to Japan. It will be amazing.

    #214042
    Ridley
    Participant

    Ocean grey and military grey like you’re never seen them before.

    #214043
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    NO TOS UPDATE! Huff.

    #214045
    thomasaevans
    Participant

    @DougRDNaylor – BBCWW are doing an up-resed version of first 5 series as the Japanese market are very keen for it.

    #214046

    It’s official, the Japanese think Series VI is fucking shite.

    With episodes like Region, Limmerworld and Porrymorph, how can they?

    #214047

    Right, I’m throwing down the gauntlet, then picking it up again and waving it around haphazardly.

    I’m gonna finish off my high definition version of ‘The End’ and put it up against the official blu-ray for all of you to compare. I’m betting a copy of Series I that my edition is preferred. If it’s not, I’ll happily raffle off that copy to a member of this forum.

    Now, if the Japanese blu-ray contains the remastered editions, fair enough, there’s not much I can do about that but I think time has shown that the world prefers the original broadcast editions and as such, they will be pressed onto the discs.

    Considering that the Naylor’s are waist-deep into the post-production of Series XI and XII, the new blu-rays will likely take the form of upscales with minimal alteration and correction but there is room for so much more without any need to go into the realm of the remasters.

    So, that’s your lot.

    #214052
    performingmonkey
    Participant

    *fully expects them to master them at 24p so the episodes play 4% slower, like DW series’ 1-4*

    #214053
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Yeah, I fully expect them to be a massive disappointment. They could be brilliant if they have all the bonus features ported over from the separate releases and Bodysnatcher as well as not fucking up the encoding but I just don’t see that happening.

    And yeah they probably will be 24p. I believe the Doctor Who releases were 24p as they were originally done for the American market. If these are being done for the Japanese market then they may likewise be 24p (as if memory serves me they use NTSC as well). With them being released in the UK first (it seems), we may have hope that they’ll be 25p.

    The dream would be them getting the Doctor Who restoration team in to do a new transfer and sort all the tech stuff out. And then getting somebody from the original DVD team to sort out the bonus features. Then we’d have what would probably be the definitive set of Red Dwarf releases.

    #214054

    Any and all frame-rate conversion to this day is an eternal clusterfuck of dodgy looking motion interpolation and blending. There’s no getting around it, over it, under it or compromising with it.

    The cleanest route would be to deinterlace and upscale the original 576/50i video to 1080/50p for the PAL markets then convert from there to 1080/59.94p for the NTSC markets.

    But I think they’re gonna go for the ‘why fucking bother’ route which is to deinterlace the video, upscale it then interlace it again to produce 1080/50i PAL and 1080/59.94i NTSC blu-rays.

    #214055
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Waste of time.

    The way that Doug has announced it on Twitter suggests BBCWW are doing it, and so they’ll no doubt get hold of the cheapest masters they can find, shove them through an upscaler and release them.

    Although Dwarf is going to look shit on Bluray no matter what you do, you COULD at least rescan the analog masters using modern codecs and get SOME quality improvement over the original digitised masters, also do some basic colour grading to bring a bit of colour back to the early series. But they won’t do that. Especially considering back in the 90s when they did it for Re-mastered, the analog tapes were clearly knackered, even then. Plus they’ve lost the 35mm original Dwarf flybys. Man, they would be great to see in HD!

    Be interesting to see some comparison shots though.

    #214056
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    Also, what is the 1:78:1 stuff listed in the specs? Even the documentaries were 4:3 on the original Dwarf disks, are they actually going to crop the shows too?

    #214057

    The irony, speaking from my own perspective, is that there really is so much you can do with knackered masters.

    A friend of mine has a bundle of 1″ C-type reels with various music promos on them and boy, once you put the work in, you can really make something wonderful out of it all on blu-ray and from there, high-bitrate online video.

    Blu-ray has the resolution, frame-rate, audio and colour capabilities to allow standard definition footage to, in a way, make the most of itself. SD video at that point is not encumbered by an SD format to be played over. It doesn’t have to deal with interlacing, compression codecs that are 20 years old and relatively low capacity discs to contain itself on. Blu-ray and conversion to what is an HD format allows for much, much more freedom and ability.

    The remasters, when you look at them from a purely visual point of view, were a valiant effort up to a point. They were stripping back the murkiness of the original colour scheme, boosting it all up and trying to bring some life into the first two series. But, like any idea that’s ran with, they ran and ran and they lost focus of what was there and good and great to begin with. They tore away alternating fields to half the effective frame-rate from 50 fps to 25 fps, bringing it more into line with film at 24 fps. They added a very strange, early-era digital grain filter to try and knock some of the video look out of it all but it just doesn’t work and it especially doesn’t work with digital encoding, it smears and just looks like shit. In addition, the picture ratio has been cropped to 14:9 to nod and wink at widescreen presentation and it introduces us to the land of cropped heads and eerily too close close-ups.

    I swore I wasn’t going to go off on another whinge about the remasters but alas.

    Anyway, the remasters showed what could be done with the series from a visual standpoint. The colour grading is admittedly great, flawed but a real change for the better and I love how it looks at times. There’s life to the first two series, deep blues and reds and greens, the skin-tones aren’t overly saturated and fundamentally, it also shows how much you can extract and utilise from SD analogue video, no matter the source. There is always a way to make the best of what is there.

    It’s been nearly 20 years since the remasters appeared and 15 since Red Dwarf made its debut on DVD. In the right hands, with the right love, care and attention, the first six series of Red Dwarf could fucking shine on blu-ray. Go back to the original masters, transfer them in as best as can be achieved and don’t treat them just as an upscale to satisfy the requirements for blu-ray, but treat them as a precious find, the source from which you can create vibrant and colourful new masters which will take pride of place not just on blu-ray, but online and on the telly.

    But they won’t, so fuck it.

    On a related note, if anyone has a copy of pretty much any episode or episodes from the first six series which haven’t been derived from either the DVD or a consumer recording source (VHS, Betamax etc…) I would be QUITE interested in obtaining that for purposes of what would essentially be a fan restoration.

    #214058
    Mr-Stabby
    Participant

    My Series 2 DVD is knackered, so if this includes all the commentaries and such, i may buy this just to see if there is actually any improvement.

    #214059

    I can’t bear the commentaries at times, between Norman Lovett whinging and Danny John-Jules talking shite, it can be hard work.

    I’d give anything for Series I to VI commentaries with Ed, Paul, Rob and Doug.

    #214060
    Ridley
    Participant

    Bodysnatcher content would be nice.

    #214061
    MANI506
    Participant

    All new Rob/Doug/Ed commentaries would make this a must buy. Even better would be if they released the commentaries as podcasts like Graham Linehan and Arthur Mathews did a few years back.

    #214062
    Stephen R. Fletcher
    Participant

    I would buy the shit out of those blu-rays if they had all new Rob/Doug/Ed commentaries. Even better if (like MANI506 said) they do what Graham Linehan and Arthur Mathews did for the first two series of Father Ted. Presumably that was done to make up for Arthur’s absence in the original commentaries for the first two series, and to make it worth rebuying the whole series again on a new box set. But it was quite surprising and nice that they also allowed you to just download them as podcasts for free. Though I have noticed they aren’t available to download anymore. I’m guessing the proviso was that they’d only be available to download for a limited time.

    It would be bloody wonderful if they got Rob, Doug & Ed to record new commentaries for the original series. Although, sadly I’m doubting we’ll even get any Doug commentaries (or Cast commentaries either) for the XI & XII releases, considering what happened with the DVD and Blu-rays for X. I’m hoping I’ll be utterly wrong though. I mean, who would’ve thought that Rob Grant coming back to do commentaries with Doug and be in the DVD doccos would EVER happen?!

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