Game of Thrones

[Jo]

…or Boobs & Dragons to give it it’s correct name ;)
So who watched it and what did you think?

Also… one of the men in the cage – Liam Neeson or not? I spotted him straight away and thought it was, but the internet seems divided on whether it’s him or not since it’s been neither confirmed nor denied by the GoT/B&D people.

Topic

[Jonathan Capps]

What scares me is that we’re only at the beginning of vol. 2 and it’s already so many characters that many of them only get a few minutes screen time (if that); and the trend continues, yes? My friend said that GRRM keeps throwing more people at her while she’s really most interested in what happens to the people from the first book. I think that’ll be a problem for the tv show before long.

Yeah, it’s definitely an issue, especially when you consider how little we’ve seen on Dany so far, but presumably that will change soon. I think they’ll end up missing a few characters in each episode so the ones they do have get more time at once

A lot of new characters are introduced later (especially in the fourth book) but I never felt the old ones were getting short shrift because there’s almost so much room in those giant books for everyone. The TV series is definitely going to have to make some drastic cuts once they’ve got past seasons 3 and 4 (which will cover the third book), but judging on how well they’ve compressed the story in this season so far, I’m sure it won’t be too much of a problem.

[Jonathan Capps]

I must admit, I really am struggling to remember who’s who. I’m currently subscribed to a podcast for the recaps they give in a hope that this helps.

Which one have you gone for? I’m currently trying about 5, and I think my favourite so far is The Night’s Watch. They cover the episodes very well and with precious little fucking about and trying to be funny.

[ori-STUDFARM]

It’s Cast Of Thrones. But I’m not really impressed with it at all. There’s next to zero by way of analysis. The episode recap is all over the place with me unsure half the time whether they are talking about stuff from an episode I have seen, or stuff from the novels that wasn’t in the episode…or even stuff yet to come in the novels. Which is kind of annoying when you aren’t familiar with the books. It’s like listening to our first episode of ScutterCast…probably.

I think I’m going to give this one the push and try Night’s Watch. I’m trying to recap the first Season and then catchup on the podcast to this Season as it airs.

[pfm]

What are people’s thoughts on Brienne? Gwendoline Christie, while obviously not ugly enough (but do we really want that??), is otherwise darned perfect IMO. Though we’ve not seen much of her yet…or indeed anyone else for that matter.

Not enough screentime for most characters is gonna be an ongoing problem, especially with sooo many big players. Even the short-lived minor characters, like Yoren, are pretty awesome.

Others may disagree, but I’m quite happy with the…interesting changes they’ve made to Renly!

[Jonathan Capps]

> It’s Cast Of Thrones.

Oh, Christ, I gave up on those tedious gobshites a while ago. If I remember rightly they have a lengthy section just reading out praise that people have sent them, rather than talking about the actual show. Intensely irritating people.

Night’s Watch definitely seems to be the best show only podcast (although they do have a slightly spoilery section hidden right at the end, but it’s easy to ignore).

[Jonathan Capps]

> What are people’s thoughts on Brienne? Gwendoline Christie, while obviously not ugly enough (but do we really want that??), is otherwise darned perfect IMO.

I thought she was brilliant. I think she looks perfect and I can’t wait until she gets more to do. In fact there are very few actors in the show that are anything short of excellent, apart from Janos Slynt, who was fucking dire.

> Not enough screentime for most characters is gonna be an ongoing problem, especially with sooo many big players. Even the short-lived minor characters, like Yoren, are pretty awesome.

I’m certain there’s going to be more drastic cuts to the story as they go on. The fact they’re splitting book 3 into two seasons is going to be great for the show, because there’re going to have room to do justice to almost everything in that book.

> Others may disagree, but I’m quite happy with the…interesting changes they’ve made to Renly!

They’ve done a great job with that, I think. They don’t feel so much like changes, more just showing the stuff that went unsaid in the books.

[Ridley]

What are the changes made to Renly?

[TheLeen]

What are people’s thoughts on Brienne? Gwendoline Christie, while obviously not ugly enough (but do we really want that??), is otherwise darned perfect IMO. Though we’ve not seen much of her yet…or indeed anyone else for that matter.

She looks perfect for what I imagine her part to be. I wasn’t impressed with her acting (which I only dare to bring it up because I think everyone else is really really good, including Yara/Asha) but maybe it’ll fall into place when I see more of her, or maybe that’s JUST the way she’s supposed to be.

Also, what was up with Littlefinger being so wooden (acting-wise) in the last episode. He was absolutely fine before last week.

~

It sounds like those drastic cuts are necessary, at the same time my heart is bleeding for everything I am missing. Maybe I’ll give the books another try after all. Hrm.

[Jonathan Capps]

> What are the changes made to Renly?

The fact that he and a Loras are gay lovers is something that’s only ever hinted at in the books (well, I say ‘hinted’, his Kingsguard are called The Rainbow Guard, ffs) and the show is showing all of that, including how the situation works with Renly marrying Loras’ sister. It’s a very good addition, I think.

[Jonathan Capps]

She looks perfect for what I imagine her part to be. I wasn’t impressed with her acting (which I only dare to bring it up because I think everyone else is really really good, including Yara/Asha) but maybe it’ll fall into place when I see more of her, or maybe that’s JUST the way she’s supposed to be.

It’s a difficult part to play, but I think she’ll do well once her character has more to do. I’m less impressed with Yara/Asha but I think that’s more of a problem with her characterisation than any issues with the actor.

It sounds like those drastic cuts are necessary, at the same time my heart is bleeding for everything I am missing. Maybe I’ll give the books another try after all. Hrm.

How far did you get with them?

[Ridley]

It’s a very good addition, I think.

My memory of Clash of Kings is fleeting. It’s basically said that Margaery Tyrell is wasting her time, right? Loras looks so different in the second season, I wouldn’t have realised it was the same guy without the sex scene later in the episode!

I don’t remember Renly having a whole lot to do so those scenes in the episode are better for making him more relevant. Stannis and Melisandre map sex would have been better staying implied though. However, I’m only on Feast for Crows now so maybe I’m wrong. ;)

[TheLeen]

How far did you get with them?

Approximately one third into the first one before deciding that his writing style isn’t working for me. I don’t mind long books at all, but despite being mega-hyped I really had to force myself to go back to reading on.

Maybe I should read the German translation. (… never thought I’d say that about anything.)

~

I appreciated all of the Renly scenes. It’s kind of disappointing to read that they aren’t in the books at all, especially the scene with Margaery.

I am getting the hint that a lot of people were underwhelmed by Melisandre/Stannis; I thought they were good (if confusing… who the God of what? Is she a witch? Why did that guy drink his own poison? Did she make him? Was he trying to prove a point? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?) and I love the acting in both Melisandre’s calm, apparently deserved arrogance (“… then stop me”) and Stannis’ uptightness (letter writing scene).

[Jonathan Capps]

Approximately one third into the first one before deciding that his writing style isn’t working for me. I don’t mind long books at all, but despite being mega-hyped I really had to force myself to go back to reading on.

Maybe I should read the German translation. (… never thought I’d say that about anything.)

It is a shame that you can’t get through the writing style. I assume it’s a language thing rather than taste? It’s hard for me to imagine having to deal with a book like that wasn’t in my first language…

I am getting the hint that a lot of people were underwhelmed by Melisandre/Stannis; I thought they were good (if confusing… who the God of what? Is she a witch? Why did that guy drink his own poison? Did she make him? Was he trying to prove a point? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?) and I love the acting in both Melisandre’s calm, apparently deserved arrogance (“… then stop me”) and Stannis’ uptightness (letter writing scene).

Right, I think this is going to turn into a bit of a rant…

I think they’ve done a terrible job of adapting that storyline. The acting is all great, but they especially messed up Maester Cressen’s objection to Melisandre and what he was doing with the poison. Basically he was sacrificing himself to protect Stannis (he’s been serving the Baratheons from before Robert, Stannis and Renly were born and is incredibly protective of Stannis), by proposing a toast knowing he’d also have to drink the poison. This is all after a great deal of reflection and talking through his problems with Stannis. In the TV show he’s just presented as a silly old man who dies stupidly.

There’s also important details about Melisandre and Stannis that has either not been explained yet or brushed over far too quickly (the relationship between Stannis and Davos is brilliant, so I hope it gets a proper explanation soon) and I do think the Dragonstone story is the one part of the TV show that’s not getting nearly enough attention. With everything else they’ve done a great job of compressing the story, but it’s worrying that the one big injection of new characters this season has been botched so far.

[Jonathan Capps]

> Stannis and Melisandre map sex would haved been better staying implied though.

Definitely agree about this. As with Renly’s homosexuality it’s something that’s never explicitly stated so they do need to be a bit more explicit about it, but that scene came WAY too soon and all that bollocks about Mel giving Stannis a son was bullshit. He’s a man that is utterly beholden to the rules of the land, and expecting us to believe he’ll be happy to have a bastard son to succeed him is so utterly wide of the mark.

[TheLeen]

It is a shame that you can’t get through the writing style. I assume it’s a language thing rather than taste? It’s hard for me to imagine having to deal with a book like that wasn’t in my first language…

Well, I’m reading everything else in English.

To me, it feels like GRRM is describing one painting after another. (And then she said… and then he said… and then that happened.) The info is there, but the writing feels … so static, almost lifeless. It makes me watch from a distance rather than pull me into the story. It’s weird, because that’s the first time that’s happened to me, in any language, ever.

I’m probably doing him a big injustice.

[pfm]

> I don’t remember Renly having a whole lot to do so those scenes in the episode are better for making him more relevant.

Yep. Without this extra spice to his character he’s pretty much a non-entity!

One thing…I’m guessing they’re gonna cut is *minor book spoiler* Brienne being in love with Renly from afar. I say that partly because he comes across as a bit of a tosser in his scenes, so it would seem odd for a character as strong as she is to be so obsessed with him. Also, all of that goes on in her head so it would be hard to get it across onscreen. The other thing is…the other main character she comes into contact with later, they’ll want to focus on that I’m sure. Can’t say any more without spoiling more.

> He’s a man that is utterly beholden to the rules of the land, and expecting us to believe he’ll be happy to have a bastard son to succeed him is so utterly wide of the mark.

I thought it was weird how interested he became when Mel mentioned a son. Surely only having a son with his wife would matter?? Of course, with her gown falling open like that I’d say it would have been rude for him not to…respond. ;P

[Jonathan Capps]

Well, I’m reading everything else in English.

Fair enough!

To me, it feels like GRRM is describing one painting after another. (And then she said… and then he said… and then that happened.) The info is there, but the writing feels … so static, almost lifeless. It makes me watch from a distance rather than pull me into the story. It’s weird, because that’s the first time that’s happened to me, in any language, ever.

I’m probably doing him a big injustice.

I think that’s fair, actually. His writing style is fairly straight forward and functional at times, but I don’t see that as a weakness as such. His strength is having such an interesting history and well drawn characters. Also, he describes food in almost indecent detail.

[Jonathan Capps]

Yep. Without this extra spice to his character he’s pretty much a non-entity!

See also Rob’s campaign in the West. I’m really pleased that’s getting screen time in the show, especially since it seems there’s potential there for a pretty big deviation from the books.

One thing…I’m guessing they’re gonna cut is *minor book spoiler* Brienne being in love with Renly from afar. I say that partly because he comes across as a bit of a tosser in his scenes, so it would seem odd for a character as strong as she is to be so obsessed with him

I think they’ll briefly address it. If I remember rightly Cat sees that Brienne loves Renly almost straight away, so it’s likely they’ll have a chat about it in the next episode. I don’t see there being much different between book and show Renly, though – both are arrogant and cocky but both obviously inspire people to follow. It still makes perfect sense for a warrior like Brienne to fall in love with her king.

[TheLeen]

I think they’ll briefly address it. If I remember rightly Cat sees that Brienne loves Renly almost straight away, so it’s likely they’ll have a chat about it in the next episode. I don’t see there being much different between book and show Renly, though – both are arrogant and cocky but both obviously inspire people to follow. It still makes perfect sense for a warrior like Brienne to fall in love with her king.

I got the idea that she must fancy him a bit from her two scenes last episode. No biggie. Right?

[TheLeen]

Okay, wtf was that??

[Ridley]

I guess map sex needed to be shown after all. ;)

[Jonathan Capps]

Probably best we keep away from details until 10pm tonight.

[ori-STUDFARM]

I’ve had a slight problem with Game Of Thrones right from when we were first shown the dragon eggs…..And that is that I’ve wanted to see dragons! I know the ‘fantasy’ elements are coming…eventually. But a single ‘zombie’ attack here and the odd oversized wolf there haven’t been enough to quell my desire to see an equivalent to a fully grown dragon. I’m just too damned impatient.

Now, I know we haven’t seen full sized dragons laying siege to a city. But whatever that was is certainly a huge step in the right direction.

I’ve been enjoying the show whilst feeling that impatience since it started. Now, that impatience is starting to abate. Loved this episode….a lot!

[pfm]

One of the best episodes of TV in ages! That final scene could go down as one of the most remembered and iconic ever broadcast! The way the ‘birth’ was realised couldn’t have been more perfect…and neither could that small glimpse of the huge city of Qarth we got through the gates. They’re making such brilliant use of their effects budget.

Joffrey…..is all! O.O

[Jonathan Capps]

Yep, fantastic episode.

I absolutely loved Harrenhal. The image of this vast castle literally melted by dragonfire is inspired. The new Gregor is a bit skinny, mind, but Polliver and the Tickler are suitably cunty and I was very pleased to hear ‘the Brotherhood’ mentioned…

I can’t help but think that the Joffrey scene with the prostitutes was a bit much. We’ve *just* seen him abuse Sansa horribly in front of the whole court, so that scene didn’t feel at all necessary. I’m starting to find any scene with Joffrey in it incredibly difficult to watch, especially scenes where he ends up ‘winning’.

And yeah the shadow birth was utterly fucked up in an excellent way, made all the more effective of it coming out of nowhere.

[Ian Symes]

Jerome Flynn saying “there’s no cure for being a cunt” is one of the highlights of my year.

[pfm]

The Stannis/Renly scene was also a highlight for me. You do believe they’re brothers (and not just because Catelyn says so, just in case the audience forgot ;)) and I love how casual they are, considering how many thousands of lives there are at stake…

‘Quarth’/’Qarth’ being settled was a funny little moment. Though those paying attention will have noticed Dany pronouncing it ‘Qarth’ earlier in the episode!

One thing I’m pleased about is them not insulting the audience by making us think Arya’s really getting away with her ruse as a boy. Regardless of her short hair she’s blatantly a girl, there’s just no getting away from it!

[peas_and_corn]

It was good Tywin calling everyone idiots for not noticing it.

[Ridley]

First few minutes of episode five should have been the ending of four, I feel.

[pfm]

Easily the most departures from the book in this episode…

Arya and Tywin scenes ftw. And Ygritte, while for some reason I always imagined her having a sort of Scandinavian accent(??), is going to work really well. The King’s Landing riot featuring about 15 extras was a little disappointing…but the Hound executing Sansa’s attackers with extreme prejudice made up for that! :D

[Jonathan Capps]

> Easily the most departures from the book in this episode…

Yep, and every one a good move, I thought. I don’t want to turn into a tedious fucker harping on about the books all the time, but this season has really done a superb job of adhearing to the story and making all the right changes, apart from a few notable exceptions.

> Arya and Tywin scenes ftw.

Maisy Williams as Arya is absolutely superb. She’s easily matched Charles Dance in every scene she’s shared with him, which is remarkable.

> And Ygritte, while for some reason I always imagined her having a sort of Scandinavian accent(??), is going to work really well.

Roy Dotrice in the audiobooks always used various Celtic accents for the Wildlings, so her accent is Irish in my head, but I get the Scandinavian thing. I imagine once we see more Wildlings there’ll be all sorts of accents, especially since a lot of the actors will be Icelandic. Also, I’ll just say it now because I’m amazed you haven’t: I really fancy Ygritte.

> The King’s Landing riot featuring about 15 extras was a little disappointing…but the Hound executing Sansa’s attackers with extreme prejudice made up for that! :D

Yarp. The Hound was at his best in this episode. We’ve not had nearly enough of him in previous episodes so I hope we see more of him from this point.

The Jaqen H’ghar / Arya scene was brilliant, too. Every time this show does anything comedic it always works really well, and this case it highlighted even more how awesome Jaquen is at killing pricks.

[Jonathan Capps]

By the way, Ori, have you found a suitable podcast for your needs? I’m listening to the latest Night’s Watch episode now and it’s as excellent as always, although one of the hosts just claimed the scenes beyond The Wall were shot in Northern Ireland.

[pfm]

> Also, I’ll just say it now because I’m amazed you haven’t: I really fancy Ygritte.

You know nothing, Jon Capps…;)

Nah, she’d be plenty comfort on a cold night…and, ofc as always, red hair ftw!

[ori-STUDFARM]

Yeah, Nights Watch came recommended elsewhere too so I’ve gone with that one. Although I’m listening to the first Season reviews/analysis first. I’ve also started listening to the Breaking Bad podcast from the same people….and I might start on their Walking Dead as well.

For some reason, after Lost, Heroes and Flash Forward I stopped listening to TV show podcasts. Forgot how much more they can bring to the show sometimes…

[Jonathan Capps]

> For some reason, after Lost, Heroes and Flash Forward I stopped listening to TV show podcasts. Forgot how much more they can bring to the show sometimes…

It’s only very rarely that a show grabs me enough to bother listening to a podcast about it, but when it happens I tend to go a bit mad with them and download everything I can find. There are also some great ones that go into in-depth analysis of the whole story from the books and the TV series that I could literally listen to until the end of time. There’s just so much awesome stuff in this universe.

I’d be interested to hear their Walking Dead podcast, actually, because from what I can gather from the odd comment they’ve made about it, they’re not impressed with how it’s progressing…

[ori-STUDFARM]

One of my current favourites for a TV show reaction and analysis is the Dissecting Dexter podcast….although, even trying to keep spoiler free, it can occasionally ruin a plot twist.

Dexter’s last Season had a big twist that was correctly predicted in the listeners e-mails. I don’t think I’d have seen it coming myself. But once the idea had been suggested, it became a bit obvious. And I think not guessing would have made the whole Season a lot more enjoyable. But that was a rarity. The podcast usually adds to my enjoyment of the TV show.

[Jonathan Capps]

Fucking hell, like.

Amazing episode. Loads and loads of scenes with two characters just talking, and they squeezed so much background and nice details. Brilliant world building.

Arya and Tywin have me totally hooked. Probably the best thing about this season.

And that ending was brutal.

[ori-STUDFARM]

>Arya and Tywin have me totally hooked. Probably the best thing about this season.

Agreed

[UncreativeUserName]

Due to Joffrey’s shorter screen time the last couple of episodes, Theon is my new most hateable cunt.

[Jonathan Capps]

CASTING MEETING:

“So, we need to cast Theon, who at worst is an irredeemable cunt and at best is the victim of his father being an even bigger cunt”

“Alfie Allen?”

“Done! Who’s for lunch?”

[Ian Symes]

He’s come a long way from this.

[Jonathan Capps]

Yeah, but he’s lost his looks.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Starting to really dislike Robb Stark now…I figured he was the one we were supposed to be routing for. But he just seems so self-righteous it sickens me. Hope he gets killed with a burning hot poker in his ear!

[Jonathan Capps]

I’ve liked Robb, but he’s suffering from not being a proper major character. He’s just running around the Westerlands winning fairly inconsequential victories. His self righteousness is ok with me because it’s just how Starks are. He might not sell it as well as Sean Bean, but I don’t mind him being a bit pompous about his honour too much.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Thinking about it, I’ve gone off most of the characters that I liked a few weeks ago. I’m sure once they actually do something exciting, I’ll be alright again.

I was really excited for Daenerys story after the Season 1 finale. I assumed she’d become a godlike leader, worshipped by thousands of Dothraki and leading the way with 3 fierce dragons….looks like I’ll waiting a while for anything like this.

Although I’m still a fan, Rob Snow pissed me off by not beheading that woman. I’m sure his old man would never has hesitated in that situation.

Even Tyrion has been a little quiet for my liking these last couple of episodes. With me warming more to Bronn.

The only two that I can’t get enough of are Arya and Bran.

Also, end of this week…did anyone actually think that Bran was dead? I thought it was a given at the end of the episode before that it was the farmers children….then this week, it was revealed as though I was supposed to be surprised.

[peas_and_corn]

Well, it was more showing that the people of Winterfell will work it out than the audience working it out.

[TheLeen]

Arya is awesome. I enjoyed every single scene with her and Gendry, Tywin, Jaqen or others.

Danaerys is still fun to watch, but mainly because she is in Qarth and I JUST WANT TO SEE MORE OF QARTH.

Jon Snow is just a puppy. I like him well enough. The whole rangers vs. wildlings thing isn’t too interesting. Sadly, I cannot get into Ygritte at all at this point. Maybe because I found the actresses’ character on that other costume drama irritating.

It was good to see some Kings Landing action, although I don’t really feel the riots and/or siege are dangerous at all, they probably should have shown an actual mass scene or two to give a sense of scale.

At the beginning of the season, I expected Stannis and Melisandre to play bigger parts, but now I’ve almost forgotten they exist.

The biggest surprises, to me, were all the different things to do with the Grejoys. so I enjoyed that. (I also enjoy hating their guts.)

I agree that Robb’s/Catlyn’s/Jamie Lannister’s scenes are among the least interesting. Renley’s camp was more fun to watch.

The first season had more emotional impact on me, we’re 8 episodes into season 2 and I always feel like something is ABOUT to happen but not actually happening, which is ridiculous, given what actually happened in Winterfell. I hope that the season finale will have some kind of unignorable badassery.

It sucks that these shows can’t just go on on a weekly basis forever, without monthslong breaks.

[ori-STUDFARM]

Okay, take it back! Can’t remember the last time I repeated the words ‘Fucking hell!’ to myself as I did tonight when the wildfire went up! Didn’t expect to be this interested with this side of the story!

[Jonathan Capps]

That episode was amazing. I think it helps massively that they stuck to one location. It’ll be hard to do but I’d like them to do this more next season to prevent the rushed nature of some of this season’s episodes. It’ll mean bigger gaps between seeing some characters but I think it’ll be worth it

The Hound was probably my favourite bit of this episode. Oh, and Cersei getting shitfaced. Oh, and the Wildfire. The fucking Wildfire.

[Ridley]

The Hound’s pyrophobia was very well done. Clegane, Bronn and Lancel stole the show.

I did think the attack on Tyrion would be the season cliffhanger. Can’t see the other two options being as impactful as nekkid, burn-free mother of dragons.

[Author]

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