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  • #11714
    Jimboid
    Participant

    Right, we all know Red Dwarf is brilliant, apart from the parts that are shit.

    Opinion is divided over 7, 8 and BTE. You may love them, you may rather eat a lightbulb than watch them again.

    My question is this: are their any bits of the least good episodes that you like?

    For instance, Pete Part 2 (I know it’s been endlessly bashed to buggery, but it deserves it)….I like the 2 seconds of the time-delayed fight where Rimmer gets punched in the stomach / uppercutted and is lifted off the floor.

    It’s a nice piece of physical comedy and the only bit of the episode that doesn’t fill me with a kind of hot, embarrassed nausea.

    So is there a teeny tiny bit of Duct Soup that makes you smile? Is there a fleeting glimmer of amusement in Krytie TV, like a golden kernel of sweetcorn glinting in a pile of bum mulch?

    Tell us.

    #118116
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > It’s a nice piece of physical comedy and the only bit of the episode that doesn’t fill me with a kind of hot, embarrassed nausea.

    Agreed on that one.

    I like the closing credits for Krytie TV.

    #118117
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    There’s always *something*, no matter how small. There’s not one episode of Red Dwarf that’s failed to raise at least one laugh, even if I didn’t like any of the other 28 minutes. Even Krytie TV has the synchronised leg crossing. And the B Movie parody is alright as well.

    #118118
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > Even Krytie TV has the synchronised leg crossing

    I don’t want to be your friend anymore.

    #118119
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Finally.

    #118120
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    Yeah, loved the delayed fight scene in Pete 2.

    Also – “Follow the Rimmer-shaped blur” from part one.

    There’s a lot of series VIII that I do find funny in fact, it’s just a very childish sort of funny.

    “Only The Good…”, I don’t think I can find anything good about ironically. Oh, saying that, Slattery’s maniacal “HAHAHAHAHA!” as the vending machine is quite amusing, so yeah…

    #118121
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    The conversation with Birdman i find hilarious.

    Yes the vending machine is very Dwarf.

    The majority of Cassandra is awesome I have to say, there’s a lot of good stuff in there, but I think it’s of a general consensus that Cassandra is a good episode.

    Series VII: Robert’s ‘Oh, my goodness, it’s Princess Leia’ lines cracks me up every time.

    Obviously there are more, but these are a few of my favorite things.

    #118122
    mick
    Participant

    I’ve always said there’s probably a good 45 mins of quality stuff throughout VII, VIII and BtE that I actually enjoyed… not so much in BtE.

    Despite the fact I didn’t enjoy them on the whole, they’re better that 90% of sit-coms that were being churned out during the same period.

    tangent> Incidentally I re-watched the first US pilot again last night, I have no idea why, but I realised there’s some stuff in there that with subtle tweaking could have worked rather well, a lot of the gags were ruined simply by poor delivery.

    Did everyone see the interview Craig Bierko did about his appearance in it? seems he pretty much agrees exactly with everyone’s opinion on it.

    #118123
    Jonsmad
    Participant

    Opinion is devided over some of the other series episodes as well.

    In answer to your 7, 8 and BTE. I like most of BTE anyway. I loved series 8 when it airred, except the odd gag, and why was krtyen doing beedle when he wasnt current TV anymore, beyond that I loved most of the rest of the series. Then I got educated by the kind of moaning buggers who hang around here and now I can see all the faults, and how it’s not a patch on earlier dwarf, and I realised I’d been laughing at a sketch show. Best bit in Krytie TV is probably the “we are leaving” when they are watching the showering, torn between the moral drive and the sex drive. Or is the lister kryten speach in that one “exboyfriend tim” that was ok, but not as good as the documentary makes it out to be.

    I hate duct soup, it’s my all time least fave I think, a bottle show that expands starbug for no real reason and is dull through out. The bit i like in it, is the squeaky gibson story that was cut and is in the extended version.

    #118124
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > The majority of Cassandra is awesome I have to say, there’s a lot of good stuff in there, but I think it’s of a general consensus that Cassandra is a good episode.

    Somewhere there’s a lost DwarfCast from around 2007 with a group of very drunk and depressed G&Ters trying to commentate on that episode. That day, we realised we didn’t like it as much as we remembered.

    #118125
    si
    Participant

    For the last few months, rather than having ‘marathons’, I’ve been slowly making my way through the whole lot. I got to series VII this week, and like I said at the time, it is a lot of good stuff but it’s just not a good series.

    Good bits:

    Series VII: The opening of Stoke Me A Clipper. The Rimmer Experience. Pride and Prejudice World. “What about Sex?” “Not here, it’s too sandy.”

    Series VIII: BitR part one – I like it, anyway. Kryten painting his foot. With nail varnish. The first ten minutes of Pete part one – better than you think. And Tony Slattery’s vending machine – just about Only The Good’s only redeeming feature.

    #118126
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I don’t particularly like Cassandra but Kochanski gets two good lines:

    Rimmer: Maybe you get blind drunk?
    Kochanski: That doesn’t excuse my other 4 senses

    and

    Lister: I also know that I don’t kill him
    Kochanski : Aw, but Cassandra promised…

    Also in Series VIII:

    “I know your taste in confectionery”

    The rest is irredeemable shite, obviously.

    I should probably watch BTE again soon. I find the comedy in that weak but not offensively bad like most of the stuff in VIII, but I’m struggling to think of a line that actually made me laugh aside from Rimmer wanting to be in a sitcom set in a biscuit factory.

    I also like “Hello Wall, what do you think?” in Beyond a Joke because I’m a silly. The pre-credits sequence in Stoke Me a Clipper is great. Shame about the rest of it.

    Tikka to Ride isn’t a bad episode, really.

    #118127
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    I never used to like Meltdown, but now… it’s actually rather brilliant isn’t it?

    I find lots to like in Series VII, apart from Beyond A Joke. Not a big fan of that one at all really.

    The US Pilot I’m oddly fond of. Bierko’s Lister is different, but funny, and he got some great lines, and had good delivery. And Kryten’s ‘Fire Exit’ sign moment is worthy of inclusion in the UK show, hands down. The US pilot certainly feels more ‘Dwarf’ to me than series VIII did.

    #118129

    > And Kryten’s ‘Fire Exit’ sign moment is worthy of inclusion in the UK show

    That was the one moment in the US pilot that I always thought was quite good.

    #118130
    Jimboid
    Participant

    Praise for the US Pilot?

    Christ on fire.

    #118131
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    Series VII has stacks of good moments, I think. I like Blue more and more as the years go on.

    #118132
    mick
    Participant

    > And Kryten’s ‘Fire Exit’ sign moment is worthy of inclusion in the UK show

    > That was the one moment in the US pilot that I always thought was quite good.

    Agreed, it was the one decent laugh out loud that pilot got from me.

    #118133
    Jimboid
    Participant

    “I owe my life to him” is the best bit of Blue.

    And the Munchkin song. Actually that probably generated more of a belly laugh from me than any Dwarf before or since…though I was young and foolish.

    #118134
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Agreed, it was the one decent laugh out loud that pilot got from me.

    Yeah, I even remember smiling at that in the synopsis in the Programme Guide.

    >“I owe my life to him” is the best bit of Blue.

    Indeed. Never found the Munchkin thing particularly funny, especially after the first verse.

    #118135
    mick
    Participant

    Sorry about the RD USA hijack again, I know it’s already been posted on here, but Craig Bierko’s brief thoughts on Red Dwarf USA if you’ve not seen it before…

    #118136
    Connell
    Participant

    Holly: What do you want, the long version or the short version?

    Lister: Long

    Holly: You’re finished

    Cat: What’s the short version?!

    Holly: Bye

    #118137
    John Hoare
    Participant

    “I owe my life to him” is the best bit of Blue.

    I think it’s the best thing in VII.

    #118138
    si
    Participant

    > I also like “Hello Wall, what do you think?” in Beyond a Joke

    Watched that yesterday. *Hate* that line.

    #118140
    MANI506
    Participant

    I don’t rate Cassandra highly because of the ridiculous Roverostomy gag and the even more ridiculous ‘Kryten figured it out’ contrived ending. However there are two amazing dialogue scenes in the middle with some great lines. Namely;

    ‘Do I ever find my singing tie pin’ and ‘your station is Git Central’.

    I found the whole of the Rimmer Experience scene hilarious in 97 and I still find it hilarious now. Maybe the episode should have been called The Rimmer Experience!

    #118141
    Phil
    Participant

    The knowledge is power exchange from BITR Part Whatever is good. Rimmer Experience is good, but then again I like nearly all of Blue.

    There isn’t one second of salvageable material from Duct Soup…and that might be the only episode I’d say that about. My opinion would change if the Cat’s “me” speech made the final cut, because that was pretty great.

    #118142
    Jimboid
    Participant

    “I read it on this mission directive.”

    Cassandra is worth it for those very few moments where little bits of VI shine through the cracks.

    #118143

    > I don’t rate Cassandra highly because of the ridiculous Roverostomy gag

    I actually like that bit. And for the record what’s everybody’s problem with the iguana line?

    #118144
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    And for the record what’s everybody’s problem with the iguana line?

    Lister’s character simply isn’t that stupid…

    Had the cat said that line. Fine. but Lister, was a step too far for his character…

    #118145
    Jimboid
    Participant

    I always assumed that they were extinct by then, or that the universe had become so big / Lister had spent so much time away from Earth that he wouldn’t necessarily know what one was.

    #118146

    > Lister’s character simply isn’t that stupid…

    I suppose. I always thought it was to do with the delivery. On the same line I always wondered why his “God name” was Cloister the Stupid. Surely Cloister the Lazy or the Disgusting would have been better.

    #118147
    Danny Stephenson
    Keymaster

    I think the problem comes with the fact that the audience doesn’t react to the line, which makes it stilted and odd.

    #118148
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Lister’s character simply isn’t that stupid…

    He is uneducated in some ways and ignorant though. His statement shows more a lack of knowledge rather than a lack of intelligence.

    Mind you knowledge and intelligence are often (possibly ironically) confused. And that Dwarf line does play on that.

    I didn’t find the line particularly funny, although it didn’t bother me.

    I actually don’t dislike any episodes of Red Dwarf including the later series, although I favour some episodes over others.

    For a good while, Blue was probably my least favourite episode of series VII. (I am very fond of the series itself though. I probably rate it over series 1. Don’t shoot me.) I think there’s some quite amusing character interchanges in Blue. The “what’s that noise?” bit with Lister and Cat had an amusing punchline delivered by Lister. And I quite liked the Kochanski/Lister dialogue where she tries to take his mind off of his claustrophobia*, then the Cat’s disastrous attempt to do the same.

    *Although I wasn’t keen on his developing the condition just for this episode.

    #118149
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    For me, the only half hours of Dwarf I’d unreservedly describe as bad occur in VIII. I’m not keen on Emohawk or Duct Soup, but they both have a lot to redeem them.

    With the exception of Duct Soup and whiny Kryten, I enjoy most of VII.

    I genuinely like Tikka To Ride, with the exception of the stupid beating of Lister at the end (why bother setting up a comedy/drama angle for 28 minutes and then go for a no-consequences slapstick cartoon ending?)

    >Even Krytie TV has the synchronised leg crossing.

    That was funnier when it was done in Men Behaving Badly and probably a dozen other shows years earlier.

    Cassandra is OK. If it was just the core crew and didn’t have the bloody revived crew/canaries in it, it would have made a fair to good episode in IV or V.

    I quite liked the use of the Luck virus in Back In The Red. Nice to have a subtle callback to a previous episode rather than trotting out Dibbley and Ace for recognition laughs.

    Fair point about the slapstick stomach punch/uppercut. Mac Macdonald does the best with what he’s given, I do enjoy his performances as he brings a completely different energy to the show. The rest of VIII I can live without.

    #118152
    NoFro
    Participant

    There are good moments in every episode though most of them are in episodes that aren’t THE most horrific anyway. The Rimmer experience (“and… wonder” & “I owe my life to him” especially), Hitler’s Nuremburg speech, git central, Rimmer’s “gonna throw the book at you” line, baked potato timer, “I read it on this mission directive” etc. all come episodes in VII and VIII which are, in my opinion, the best from those two series.

    There are good moments/lines in pretty much every episode though. It’s not so much jokes that don’t make me laugh a lot that I have a problem with though. It’s those that make me cringe. The lacking plots also don’t help but considering a lot of sitcoms get by without plots that are anywhere near as good as Dwarf’s I don’t mind lacking plots as as long as the episode makes me laugh. It’s just those with great plots as well are infinitely more rewatchable.

    Recently watched some of VIII again and the phone call with the skutters in one of the Pete episodes(?) makes me laugh. Just because of the “Wrong number” punch line.

    #118154
    Carlito
    Participant

    Boy, is it cramped!

    I think the prison concept at least freshed up series VIII and the CANARIES was a great idea. These creative decisions were not the cause of a drop in quality, the scripts, edit and performances were. I really like Cassandra on the whole, and most of Krytie TV. Back in the Red would have really made for a great feature-length if you remove all the recaps, the layered twist of a second AR reveal and the Hollister intros (Dennis the Doughnut Boy? What a pile of shit! He was clearly very competent at his job in series 1 and 2… well, except for assigning Rimmer a job that could cost the crew their lives of course)

    #118155
    Carlito
    Participant

    If every episode after BITR had been a CANARIES adventure a la Cassandra, I would have been much hapier with series VIII. Great idea poorly executed bar the one high point.

    #118156
    Jimboid
    Participant

    “So how do you get to be claustrophobic? Are you born that way, or is it
    because you’re kind of sissy?”

    I like that bit.

    #118160
    Carlito
    Participant

    Christ, looking at the grammar and spelling of my posts above (and general atrocious examples from throughout the day on Facebook et al) it appears my intelligence circuits have melted today.

    #118161
    Nick R
    Participant

    Not an episode’s only good moment, but a scene’s only good moment: I don’t find the opening bunkroom scene of “Back in the Red Part 1” funny at all… except for the bit where Rimmer very deliberately moves Lister’s hand out of the way of his book. I find that little bit funnier than anything Lister says in his long monologue!

    And Kryten’s ‘Fire Exit’ sign moment is worthy of inclusion in the UK show, hands down.

    It feels like that joke led to the scene in Rob Grant’s “Backwards” where Kryten’s reading his cowboy novel and limits himself to 0.8 words of it each day.

    #118163
    MANI506
    Participant

    Dennis the doughnut boy probably annoyed me a bit at the time but looking back now I think that it is a funny idea and makes sense when watching series 1 and 2.

    #118165
    srmcd1
    Participant

    >I genuinely like Tikka To Ride, with the exception of the stupid beating of Lister at the end (why bother setting up a comedy/drama angle for 28 minutes and then go for a no-consequences slapstick cartoon ending?)

    I actually thought the others beating the crap out of Lister was mostly justified. Let’s be honest: Lister lied to them, tricked them, dragged them on a stupid chase through time and space for a curry, got them all tangled up a national conspiracy, forced them to have to kill a man (in an indirect nature, but still), and at the end of it, he hasn’t learned a goddamn thing.

    “Smeg! I forgot to ask him if there were any curry houses in Dallas!”

    I’d have beaten the shit out of him, too, quite frankly.

    #118166
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Probably would have drawn the line at jumping on his head and battering him with a truncheon though.

    #118167
    Phil
    Participant

    >and at the end of it, he hasn’t learned a goddamn thing.

    A far cry from Classic Lister, that, which I think is probably why it stands out to folks as being a big letdown from the rest of the episode.

    #118168
    Pecospete666
    Participant

    TACO CURRY at the airport!

    #118171
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >Probably would have drawn the line at jumping on his head and battering him with a truncheon though.

    Bingo. In an episode all about actions and consequences, it’s ludicrous to end with the Dwarfer’s light-heartedly enacting what would realistically cause life threatening damage with all the consequences of a Looney Tunes cartoon (except not as good).

    >A far cry from Classic Lister, that, which I think is probably why it stands out to folks as being a big letdown from the rest of the episode.

    That too. It completely clashes with the tone of his one-on-one conversation with JFK just moments earlier.

    #118172
    srmcd1
    Participant

    If I’m totally honest, Lister used to be my least favorite character. He was okay at first, but there were some instances where I just wanted to smack him, like in Dimension Jump: “The less prepared you are for an accident, the more likely it is you’ll survive it.” The scene itself was funny, but there was a part of me that couldn’t help but think that he only said that to spite Rimmer, and in a situation like that, it was kind of stupid.

    Then he started to develop this sort of “gung ho” attitude (particularly in Series VI) that irritated me even more. His rigging the readouts and (again) sneaking around the others and lying to them made me (again) want to smack him. “Didn’t want to cause any panic…” Buh. Like he’d just donated a kidney.

    And then, of course, Series VII and VIII made him out to be a complete putz. Pretty much all there is to be said of it has already been said.

    It wasn’t until BTE that I actually started to care about him again. I’m hoping that stays in Series X.

    #118185
    ChrisM
    Participant

    If every episode after BITR had been a CANARIES adventure a la Cassandra, I would have been much hapier with series VIII. Great idea poorly executed bar the one high point.

    I was thinking about that when typing my post above. If it had been like that, do you think a lot of us would then be complaining that Red Dwarf VIII was too repetitive?

    That was one complaint made by some viewers of Red Dwarf VI. That being said, while I can see what they mean in retrospect I liked the format of that series and it is arguably my favourite of the lot. It’s probably a good thing they changed the format a bit for series VII though. (Silly size increasing stuff aside.)

    I know where you’re (Carlito) coming from. I liked the Canaries concept in series VIII and I think they should have done more with it, although probably not with every episode.

    #118194
    pfm
    Participant

    > It wasn’t until BTE that I actually started to care about him again. I’m hoping that stays in Series X.

    This. One of the best things about BTE was the reinvigoration of the character of Lister. IMO the show works well when we sympathise with Lister. That was the original setup, that we’re on his side and root for him all the way. There’s a point when the elaborate winding up of Rimmer becomes actually annoying.

    #118196
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    > There’s a point when the elaborate winding up of Rimmer becomes actually annoying.

    Are you thinking of the tomato-sneeze gag? Uggh. Lister really scraped the bottom of the barrel for that prank. (Yes, I’m aware that when the writing’s good I credit Doug (or Rob and Doug) and when it’s bad I say, “Why’d Lister do that?”)

    >IMO the show works well when we sympathise with Lister. That was the original setup, that we’re on his side and root for him all the way.

    Agree 100%. That’s why the end of Tikka is so repulsive.

    #118197
    srmcd1
    Participant

    I think the tomato gag would’ve been better if Lister’s allergies had done more than just made him sneeze. It would’ve been better if Rimmer had reminded him that tomatoes not only do that, but they also make his tongue swell up like a football, and now he’ll have to go to the Medical Unit for an inoculation jab or six. The very idea makes me snicker, especially when I imagine how the scene would end, as they’re leaving the room.

    RIMMER: Well, come on, Listy. Let’s get you jabbed. You coming?

    LISTER: (dejected incoherent slurring response) Kuhming.

    And they just leave the room. Sounds like a stronger end for that scene.

    #118199
    Blisschick
    Participant

    >Rimmer: Maybe you get blind drunk?
    Kochanski: That doesn’t excuse my other 4 senses

    My most favorite lines in all of VIII. I can’t think of anything else in the entire series that makes me laugh every time.

    #118202
    locusceruleus
    Participant

    >Are you thinking of the tomato-sneeze gag? Uggh. Lister really scraped the bottom of the barrel for that prank. (Yes, I’m aware that when the writing’s good I credit Doug (or Rob and Doug) and when it’s bad I say, “Why’d Lister do that?”)

    A poor gag, for me, saved by Chris’ delivery of the ‘ironing your sneezes’ line. That was the ‘Hey, it’s really Rimmer!’ moment for me.

    #118222
    Jo
    Participant

    >Are you thinking of the tomato-sneeze gag? Uggh. Lister really scraped the bottom of the barrel for that prank.

    Yes, he did. That was the point though wasn’t it?

    #118229
    HelloMabel
    Participant

    >That was the point though wasn’t it?

    *hamster slowly gets going on its wheel in my head…

    Oh yeah. They’d been alone in space so long that he’d used up all his good pranks already.
    I wonder what else I’ve forgotten about BTE. Time for another viewing!

    #118291
    bossk
    Participant

    a load of shite, but the ‘hope we don’t get pulled over’ ‘don’t like it when you’re ratarsed’ line was a cracking holly joke, and I liked the drawn-out salutes of Rimmers and Listers wee wave in that pile of shite series 8.

    #118293

    Speaking of the Tomato prank, I stumbled upon this on YouTube yesterday.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoukWv5rD4E

    #126276
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I think pretty much everybody has listed the ones I wanted to list.

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