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  • #231454
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i know there’s the thing of “the joke isn’t funny if you explain it” but were there ever gags in Red Dwarf you didn’t get? and if so, what?

    i never quite got what Cat’s “stan and ollie” line in White Hole was about, for example. nor did i get what “see you in ten minutes?” (repeat x10) from Pete was all about, and also Rimmer’s “steers and queers, which are you boy?” joke from Meltdown

    #231455
    Jawscvmcdia
    Participant

    “I believe he’s just discovered what shirt-tails are for”.

    #231456

    Stan and Ollie are Laurel and Hardy, comparing Kryten and Rimmer to a pair of buffoons.
    See you in ten minutes is Doug stumbling around trying to find a joke and failing.

    #231457
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    “Steers and Queers” : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T51A0naeGZE

    (It’s either a specific reference to Full Metal Jacket, or an Officer and a Gentlemen. Probably both; bearing in mind it quickly became tropey dialogue for line-up inspections).

    Stan and Ollie are Laurel and Hardy. It’s the Cat taking the piss out of Kryten and Rimmer by referring to them as a comedy double act.

    “See You in 10 minutes” is how longs Hollister thinks it will be before Lister and Rimmer fuck up again and get sent to his office. This is the limit of the joke. It is shit.

    #231459
    Pete Part Three
    Participant
    #231460
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    “See you in 10 minutes” is just a bad example of Doug’s “if I repeat something 10,000 times it will be funny” crutch which you see in Krysis and the like. It’s only a very slightly humorous way for the boys to mess with Hollister with the time wand, and the best aspect of the whole thing is watching Big Mac McDonald’s have to say the same line over and over and over again, with him becoming noticeably bored/almost corpsing.

    I think I’ve said this before but I’d never heard of Tales of the Riverbank as a child so I didn’t “get” the joke, and just thought it was made up for the show, and that having made-up TV shows in Dwarf was just really good worldbuilding.

    #231461
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Any reference to 80s culture and stuff like James Last etc also went right over my head. And the joke about not wanting Glenn Miller(?) back, I distinctly remember my reaction being utter silence

    #231463
    cwickham
    Participant

    Wasn’t “see you in 10 minutes” meant to be the original ending to the episode, back when it was a one-part story called “Captain’s Office”?

    #231464
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i remember getting the Glen Miller joke when i was younger, but most of the James Last stuff i didn’t get- i still laughed at the “Oh my god there’s James Last” from Meltdown though because even without knowing who he is, it still works as a joke.

    >you see in Krysis

    was incredibly confused as to what this was for a second, then i remembered that “maaaaargh” shit

    #231465
    bloodteller
    Participant

    >Wasn’t “see you in 10 minutes” meant to be the original ending to the episode, back when it was a one-part story called “Captain’s Office”?

    yeah, i think that’s what the VIII DVD booklet says.

    #231466

    See you in 10 minutes would probably have worked a lot better as an episode-ending joke rather than yet another thing to slow down an already tedious story.

    “Maaargh” works for me because it’s something with a certain intrinsic humour (it’s a funny sound and there’s no noticeable difference between the versions), so the ‘repeating it until it stops being funny and then becomes funny again’ thing has the opportunity to work. “See you in 10 minutes” isn’t funny in the first place.

    #231477
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    It happens a couple times in the Dave era but fuck me if I can remember any of them. For me maaargh is funny to begin with, stops being funny, then just becomes a bit irritating.

    “And save Planet Rimmer” is another example I think of a joke just being repeated 27 times

    #231478

    “And save Planet Rimmer” is something that I really feel should be funny, but misses the mark for some inexplicable reason. Maybe Chris overplays it.

    #231479
    bloodteller
    Participant

    he seems to overplay a lot of his lines in the Dave episodes though, doesn’t he?

    one that really stood out to me was his borderline cartoonish delivery of “I’ve got FLAWS?” in Officer Rimmer

    #231490
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Barrie is on absolute top form here and there in XI and XII but also overplays a few moments, like those ones. And “you’re a moron”

    #231498
    Lily
    Participant

    Quite a lot of the 80s references missed me, even though I was alive at the time and first watched Dwarf as an adult. Think it’s mostly footballing stuff that passed me by, like Peter Beardsley.

    #231499
    Warbodog
    Member

    Good old http://www.red-rose.com/www.cobalt.demon.co.uk/alt.tv.red-dwarf/reflist-tv-255.html is there for all your reference-getting needs (up to December 1997).

    Or you could just have googled “stan and ollie,” “steers and queers” etc.

    #231500
    clem
    Participant

    I remember not knowing who Paul Robeson was, or that Ishtar is considered to be one of the worst films ever made. Just maybe the Ishtar line was removed for Remastered because Doug saw the film and liked it.

    #231501
    bloodteller
    Participant

    one other joke i didn’t get was in an episode of VII (i can’t remember which, they all sort of blend into one) where kochanski moans about how she hates being stuck with some “neurotic droid who’s completely obsessed with my pants drawer!” to which kryten responds “you mean I’m not alone?” what does this mean? is kryten being really self-deprecating or is there actually another android onboard going around perving over kochanski’s knickers?

    #231502
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    The joke is him not noticing/recognising he is being called neurotic, surely?

    #231503

    Kryten does say “Oh I see, you mean me” afterwards but it’s a bit hard to hear over the audience, who are laughing for some reason.

    #231541

    For a long time, I thought “smoke me a kipper, I’ll be back for breakfast” was just a bit of lolrandom nonsense. It took me a long time to work out that actually it means “even though I’m plunging into danger, I’m so good I’ll be back in time for breakfast, so make me some smoked kippers please”.

    #231548
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I think “stoke me a clipper” is something you can actually do, like stoking the flames of a lighter (?) And it took me until about last year to realise that

    It’s still a dumb line. But if it didn’t draw attention to itself by being the title of the episode it probably wouldn’t stick out as much.

    #231554
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    I didn’t know what “rimming” was until Doug changed the title of “Natural Born Rimmers” because it sounded naughty. Oh, the irony.

    #231555
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Pretty sure “stoke me a clipper” is just nonsense, by the way.

    #231556
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    It can mean add fuel to a lighter but whether it was intended to be sensical, probably not

    #231584
    Warbodog
    Member

    Yeah, my whole family smokes and we use that phrase about 20 times daily.

    #231588
    flanl3
    Participant

    With or without the Christmas bit?

    #231590
    Warbodog
    Member

    Since I read Clipper’s title as a nipper, I’ve associated it with the abstract concept of bicycle clips, because those were a thing I’d heard referenced disparagingly a couple of times in Dwarf (Dimension Jump, Only the Good). I’ve only just learned what they are.

    I didn’t know what a haggis was when I first watched Balance of Power, I thought it was probably a type of fish (haddock?) Even now I’ve lived in Scotland and eaten many haggi, I still imagine Rimmer’s counting up irradiated fish.

    I didn’t realise Blue Midget was a joke/pun until it was discussed here recently. I’d always known a red dwarf was a type of star because of my Weetabix space book, so I assumed blue midgets and white giants were probably legit star classifications too and never questioned it.

    #231604
    Lily
    Participant

    I’ve always taken ‘stoke me a clipper’ as a malapropism. Nothing more complicated than Rimmer fucking up the line.

    #231605
    clem
    Participant

    “We got more chance of persuading a dentist to hang around an X ray machine.” Eh?

    #231606
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    “We got more chance of persuading a dentist to hang around an X ray machine.” Eh?

    I can’t imagine what caused you to remember this line in particular, clem. :P

    The joke (for want of a better term) is just that if you get your mouth X-rayed during a dentist appointment, the dentist will leave the room while it’s happening. That’s it.

    #231609
    clem
    Participant

    Right, thanks Flap Jack. I knew that but foolishly thought there had to be more to it. I dunno, maybe Cat’s saying dentists are hypocrites for subjecting their patients to X rays but not themselves. You know, the way the Cat’s always coming out with that kind of withering put-down about dentists.

    #231610
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Has Cat Ever Been To The Dentist

    I guess he went to the medi-bot in X maybe

    #231611
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    He might have gone as early as Future Echoes, given what happens to him in that episode.

    Though no virtual or robotic dentist would need to leave the room when the x-ray is being taken, so it still doesn’t make sense. The only explanation is that one of the others told him about it for some reason, or he saw it in a TV show or film. Maybe he binge-watched My Family.

    The real explanation, of course, is that Series VIII would just give random one-liners to whomever. Doesn’t really matter if it’s something the character might actually say.

    Also it was cut so does it really count?

    #231612
    bloodteller
    Participant

    cat watches a lot of TV shows according to Back In The Red (he mentions it in the trial scene) so maybe he’s just picked it up from there

    #231613
    bloodteller
    Participant

    idea- cat started watched the movie Blade Runner shortly before the events of Back To Earth, thus explaining all the references to it. TV shows no longer do it for him and he has moved on to films

    #231614
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Yes, he probably watched a shit sitcom episode where this unfunny observation was made.

    #231621
    bloodteller
    Participant

    cat has been watching a lot of Red Dwarf

    #231630
    Lily
    Participant

    >Good old http://www.red-rose.com/www.cobalt.demon.co.uk/alt.tv.red-dwarf/reflist-tv-255.html is there for all your reference-getting needs (up to December 1997).

    It’s quite interesting reading through this. It’s astounding just how many general cultural references there are. It’s a wonder that foreign markets ‘get’ RD, considering how many jokes rely on having a minimal amount of UK knowledge.

    Maybe that’s why 8 is popular overseas, it has more accessible broad jokes, rather than quips about Felicity Kendal’s bottom.

    #231631
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    >Felicity Kendal’s bottom

    If you’ve got ANYTHING to say about Felicity Kendal’s bottom, you can just about blummin well say it to me, first!

    #231634
    bloodteller
    Participant

    >Maybe that’s why 8 is popular overseas

    VIII is more popular overseas? not trying to be a dick or anything, i’m just wondering where you heard about that

    #231686
    Hamish
    Participant

    I don’t think you really need to know who Felicity Kendall is to get the basic meaning of the joke though. Same with most of the references.

    Speaking as an ignorant Canadian here.

    #231694
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Seconded. I had no idea who Kevin Keegan was when I first saw Series 1 (other than having the vague feeling that he was a genuine famous person), but the idea that the worst book ever written as of hundreds of years in the future – as judged quasi-objectively by an AI – would be such an ordinary one is brilliant.

    It’s basically just a variation on the Hitchhiker’s joke that the worst poetry in the universe was just written by some random guy from Essex. In that case, the person named wasn’t really famous either, so it especially didn’t matter when later versions anonymised the name.

    Though the update to the Kevin Keegan gag did ruin it, but that was because (a) they tried to make the new name inherently funny rather funny because of how ordinary it is, and (b) they made the football reference deliberately Sci-Fi-ish; it’s not because the author was no longer real.

    #231696
    Warbodog
    Member

    I knew who Kevin Keegan was (he visited my school once), but I always took the gag to be a specific dig at a real and recent celebrity best-seller, generally perceived to be not especially well-written.

    But googling and using the Red Dwarf reference guide, it looks like they made it up. The bloody book doesn’t exist. Or it just hasn’t stood the test of time and is now only remembered as a Red Dwarf joke.

    #231697
    bloodteller
    Participant

    there is a book called Football- It’s A Funny Old Game, its just not by kevin keegan

    #231700

    I think knowing who Kevin Keegan is probably adds a layer to it – there’s something about him which invites a certain idea of naffness – but yeah, the main joke is that ‘Football – it’s a Funny Old Game’ is a bit of a crap title for probably a bit of a dull book, and it’s been concluded that it’s the worst book ever written.

    #231706
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Kev obviously don’t write it for another 5 years. It’s around the time Cliff Richard gets shot.

    #231707
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    The name of the author never even registered to me honestly, the punchline of “football – it’s a funny old game” is funny enough to me and I probably laughed over the author

    #231718
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    there is a book called Football- It’s A Funny Old Game, its just not by kevin keegan

    I used to have it – it was by Saint and Greavsie.

    #231729
    bloodteller
    Participant

    “I’m so gorgeous, there’s a 6-month waiting list for birds to suddenly appear every time I am near.”

    is Cat talking about legit birds here (feathery flying things) or is he referring to women using slang? Bottom Live 3 did this bird/bird confusion as a joke I think

    #231730
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    It’s the lyrics to ‘Close to You’ by The Carpenters.

    Why do birds suddenly appear
    Every time you are near?
    Just like me, they long to be
    Close to you.

    #231734
    bloodteller
    Participant

    ohhhh, i’ve heard that song before! no idea why i didn’t realise the connection

    #231738

    I’d like to be an arse and point out that the Carpenters version, while the most famous recording of the song, came out seven years after the first recording of the song by Richard Chamberlain. It’s a Bacharach & David song. And a bloody great one at that.

    It’s also one of those jokes that’s utterly terrible and utterly brilliant at the same time.

    #231741
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    Why do birds!
    Why do
    Why do

    Well you get the idea.

    #231747
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Let’s just post it for Bloodteller.

    #231751
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    I’d like to formally thank the Simpsons episode “The Way We Was” for obliterating any possible barrier I could have had to understanding that Cat line.

    #231764
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Isn’t it in Austin Powers 1? But yes, I think the Simpsons episode was my first exposure to it.

    #231768
    Hamish
    Participant

    > It’s also one of those jokes that’s utterly terrible and utterly brilliant at the same time.

    That is basically the entire comedic potential of the Cat as a character in one sentence.

    #231774
    Unrumble
    Participant

    #231775
    Dave
    Participant

    You know, someone should really post that clip from I’m Alan Partridge where he sings it.

    #231777
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    It’s not in Austin Powers, Ben. It’s a Burt Bacharach/Hal David collaboration though, and has a similar composition to their songs; “What the World Needs Now”. (featured in Austin Powers IMOM) and “I’ll Never Fall In Love Again” (featured in TSWSM).

    It is in There’s Something About Mary though, just in case you were mixing up 1990’s Hollywood comedies.

    #231784
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Nah I was definitely mixing it up with What The World Needs Now, which to be fair has a very similar melodic structure, at least to begin with

    #231982
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    “Rubber shares went up this morning” always went right over my head when i was young. Is it implying Ace uses a lot of condoms or is it about his jumpsuits or what? I felt it’s a very funny line delivered well even before i could begin to get it.

    #231983
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Condoms. Or “Rubber Johnnys” as we called them back in the day.

    #231984
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    Specifically, it’s that everyone is panic-buying condoms when they hear Ace Rimmer is back, just in case they have the opportunity to fuck him.

    It’s not about Ace’s personal prophylactic usage, because then it would be a joke about his libido, rather than a joke about how attractive he is.

    #231985
    bloodteller
    Participant

    >Specifically, it’s that everyone is panic-buying condoms when they hear Ace Rimmer is back, just in case they have the opportunity to fuck him.

    are the condoms for Ace to wear or for the people buying them?

    #231986
    Dave
    Participant

    The way the stock markets work, it’s not necessarily that extra purchases have been made so much as the market expects extra purchases to be made (or even – depending on how far you take it – that the market expects the market to expect extra purchases to be made, and so on). So the condom sales may only be theoretical/expected.

    I think the joke definitely warrants this level of analysis.

    #231988
    Flap Jack
    Participant

    That very much depends on the person, and the outcome of a discussion that they and Ace would have beforehand.

    #231990

    What even more depressing to think about, is that the people speculating on rubber stocks will have their lives ruined within 24hours. After they have plunged all their investment savings in rubber/latex/condom companies, Ace buggers off on a one way trip to explore the multi-verse.

    Share prices would plummet on that news and everyone would lose out.

    Now I was a spin off showing the dystopian world left behind in the wake of Ace vanishing and the planet/solar system’s economy crashing over night.

    Also, something I’ve always wondered and will bring up now as it’s tangentially on subject. What the sodding hell is the point of test flying a dimension jumping ship if there is no way of knowing it succeeded? They lose their best pilot, they lose a massively expensive piece of prototype kit, and they basically lose the millions/billions spent on it because if they don’t know the success, or how to return it, they have no reason to carry on with the experiment. They certainly wouldn’t get any further funding after throwing it all way like that.

    Know one would test dive a submarine knowing you couldn’t resurface it again. If it doesn’t resurface then you know there is a problem, but there at least has to be the mechanism built in to get it back, then you know you’ve failed.

    By shooting Ace off into the multi-verse without a mechanism of retrieval, all they know is he has vanished.

    #231995
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    Well if he vanishes i assume they assume he made it? They might have don’t support sciencey equipmemt to detect hawking radiation or tachyons or whatever they expect to be emitted from a successful jump

    The people who test space rockets in real life know they might not come back, and many don’t

    #231996
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I somehow managed to type “don’t support” instead of “some”, there

    #231997
    Dave
    Participant

    Maybe as soon as their Ace shot out of their dimension, an alternative Ace from another dimension shot in.

    Thus saving rubber shares from freefalling.

    #232001

    Space rocket pilots have a built in mechanism for return. They know they might die accidentally, but they’re not sent to space on a one way trip. We reserve that for animals.

    So that begs the question. If they have a process of testing whether it succeeded by some science technobabble … why not do the test jump remotely?

    Dave makes a good point. I’ve always considered there only being one Ace at any given moment, and he passes the baton when he dies to a new Ace. But that’d be impossible with the sheer number there have been that we see in Stoke. There’d have to be more than one traversing the multiverse at any given time.

    #232004
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Yes, it’s pretty daft. TBF, Rob Grant seems to have realised this as when the same mission is explored in Backwards (the novel), the ship has been designed to break the light-barrier. Another Wildfire then arrives (with a dead, char-grilled Ace Rimmer) 3 days before the intended launch date, and Tranter believes that the ship has also mastered time-travel. Later, Ace and Spanners realise that it’s actually the Wildfire from another dimension, and they argue this point.

    Um, HERE. (You can possibly cling onto the Tachyon message idea for the rationale in the TV show):

    Ace exhaled a thick, blue cloud of cheroot smoke. ‘No. ‘Fraid not, Admiral. As far as we can tell, dimension travel’s something of a one-way street. Look, if the infinite-dimensions theory is correct, every single second of every single day, millions of people are making key choices that affect the course of their existences, each decision spawning yet another reality. It would be impossible to map a way through. Frankly, even if we thought we could find a way back, it would be impossible to establish for absolute certain whether or not the reality we returned to was the one we left.’
    Tranter poured himself a glass of water from his unusually large carafe. ‘So the upshot is, Commander, you’re expecting me to give a green light to this trip, knowing that the best we can hope to achieve from it…’ he sipped, ‘… is flushing thirt billion dollarpounds of hardware and the best pilot we’ve ever had straight down the khazi?’ No doubt about it, he’d have to choke down his pride and send those bloody stars back as soon as they arrived. In fact, he might do well to check up on the second-hand value of the stars he was already wearing.
    ‘Uh, Admiral, we’re about ninety-seven per cent certain Wildfire One could fire off a tachyon message complete with digitalized video footage of the new universe, so long as he got it off inside, say, fifteen seconds of arrival, while his trail back was still warm, uh, as it were, ‘
    ‘Oh, much better. A blurry shot of some stars that are probably identical to the ones we’ve already got, and a soundbite for the News at Noon. That’s a fabulous return for an outlay of thirty billion. That’ll probably snag me the cover of Investor’s Chronicle. I mean, at least the original moon shots from Earth gave the world Teflon.’
    ‘Oh, come on, Bungo,’ Ace cooed, ‘You wouldn’t stop a girl going to a big dance like this, would you? Who knows where the technology could lead? “We’ve got to try it, now we know it’s there.”

    #232005
    Nick R
    Participant

    bloodteller:

    one other joke i didn’t get was in an episode of VII (i can’t remember which, they all sort of blend into one) where kochanski moans about how she hates being stuck with some “neurotic droid who’s completely obsessed with my pants drawer!” to which kryten responds “you mean I’m not alone?” what does this mean? is kryten being really self-deprecating or is there actually another android onboard going around perving over kochanski’s knickers?

    I always thought the joke was meant to be that because of the word “some”, he mishears “some neurotic droid” as “some neurotic droids”, so he thinks a different mechanoid is being referred to.

    Ben Saunders replied above saying that he doesn’t recognise Kochanski’s phrase as being a description of himself. I disagree; I think he does recognise that she’s referring to him, but he’s so accepting of own his neurosis and cleaning obsession that he doesn’t recognise that he’s being criticised, so he ignores that bit and focuses on the plural.

    However you interpret it, it’s a convoluted joke.

    #232007
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Pretty sure the intention is that Kryten initially believes that Kochanski is referring to someone else is obsessed with Kochanki’s pants drawer. Kryten momentarily believes he is not alone in his obsession, and then realises Kochanski is referring to him.

    I don’t think mishearing “droid” as “droids” changes that.

    But does it work? Nope. If Kochanski said “neurotic moron” rather than “neurotic droid”, then I could accept that Kryten thinks someone else is obsessed with Kochanski’s pants drawer (Lister, The Cat). But she says “droid”, so there’s no room for ambiguity there.

    And because Kryten’s initial reaction is to “So, I’m not alone?”, than that means he already accepts that *he’s* obsessed with Kochanski’s pants drawer…so there should be no confusion.

    IT MAKES NO SENSE.

    #232009

    Yeah, it’s a cheap gag but it would work better if there was a possibility that there *could* be someone else. As it is it’s just a cheap gag that doesn’t work.

    #232013
    bloodteller
    Participant

    maybe the other droid obsessed with her pants is Frank, the washing machine mentioned in i think either Duct Soup or Blue

    #232023
    Plastic Percy
    Participant

    I think that’s one of the better jokes VII, naming a washing machine Frank as he works better with an identity.

    #232064
    PFML84
    Participant

    That very much depends on the person, and the outcome of a discussion that they and Ace would have beforehand.

    Well, he’s strictly butter side up so he would be the one using the condoms, not the people he has sexual encounters with.

    #232073

    Unless he has sex with a pre-op trans woman with an STD.

    #232080
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I for a moment there thought he was using butter side up to mean he only tops

    #232094
    Hamish
    Participant

    I think Bongo would be cool with that.

    #232130
    Lily
    Participant

    >“some neurotic droid who’s completely obsessed with my pants drawer!” to which kryten responds “you mean I’m not alone?” what does this mean?

    I’ve always taken the joke to be:
    – Kryten does not consider himself obsessed with her pants drawer
    – He thinks he’s ‘alone’ in being the only droid on the ship
    – “you mean I’m not alone” = ooh there’s another droid?!
    – shame face = oh, you’re calling me neurotic and obsessed with pants :(

    Question for the Americans though: how well does this translate that the whole issue is regarding underwear and not pants/trousers?

    #232131
    bloodteller
    Participant

    oh okay, i think i get it now. cheers for explaining, that joke always confused the hell out of me.

    surely with americans the joke still works even if they think the conversation is about trousers- a droid obssessed with jeans and such is still as strange as a droid obssessed with underwear.

    #232132

    Underwear is more pervy though.

    #232133
    Taiwan Tony
    Participant

    Or is it more – understandable?
    Who is the sick man? …In his suit and tie…?
    Etc

    #232135
    Dave
    Participant

    Aaaaaaaaaaah

    #232136
    Unrumble
    Participant

    I’d always interpreted it as Kryten saying “you mean I’m not the only pants-obsessed droid?”

    #232137
    Ben Saunders
    Participant

    I can’t believe this is a debate hahaha Series XIII where are you

    #232142
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    Ok, last pass at this:

    Kryten is obsessed with Kochanski’s pants drawer, and freely admits to this. However, he doesn’t believe himself to be a “neurotic droid”.

    Saying “alone”, in this sense is related specifically to believing that someone else shares his viewpoint. So, he believes that there is someone else on Starbug who’s obsessed with Kochanski’s pants drawer (like him)…who is a *neurotic droid*.

    Then he twigs that he is the “neurotic droid”, so the person who is obsessed with his pants drawer (like he is)…is him.

    #232143
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    It’s still shit, though. There’s not enough ambiguity over who’s neurotic (it’s the droid…and there’s only one onboard), so the confusion Kryten momentarily has is…just… dumb.

    #232144
    bloodteller
    Participant

    there’s a lot of weird jokes like that in VII, really. i was watching Epideme the other day and momentarily thought i’d somehow stumbled upon the deleted scenes or some weird bizarro version of the show- there’s a lot of moments in it that i don’t remember being there originally and they all feel really really odd.

    there’s one bit where lister and kryten make a crack about kochanski’s cold personality and then do a cheeky look and giggle at each other like naughty schoolboys. it was funny but also rather disorientating. is this red dwarf or grange hill?

    #232155

    Having watched VI to death, I basically stuck to my VII off-airs for ages after it was first on, and going back to VI I actually remember feeling uncomfortable at how cold Lister and Kryten can be to each other – Lister telling Kryten not to sacrifice himself because “I’m not doing my own smegging ironing”. If that was VII, Lister would be far less flippant. VII is definitely more ‘chummy’ than the earlier series, and VIII even more so (Lister and Rimmer being pretty much mates at that point). I wonder whether some of the overly cunty behaviour in XI and XII is Doug still trying to accurately redress the balance after that.

    #232159
    bloodteller
    Participant

    honestly i really like the “chummy” feel of VII and VIII, though that’s likely just me. it’s quite nice to see the main characters getting along, having a laugh and just generally being mates. you get the feeling that they’ve all bonded and become good friends with each other- even VIII Rimmer, who’s barely got to know them all, doesn’t even think twice about staying in the mirror universe and instantly heads back to save everyone. or in Pete, when everyone is just genuinely happy to see Rimmer and Lister have escaped from The Hole- it’s a nice break from how cruel the show can feel at times.

    i really didn’t like the nastiness between the four in X-XII. i mean, yes Cat was nasty to Rimmer in VI but there’s a more jokey feel to it. in the Dave era, it feels like pretty much everyone except Lister and Kryten despise each other. rimmer’s talk about how he’s annoyed kryten has been thinking for himself lately in Siliconia was rather unpleasant too.

    #232160
    bloodteller
    Participant

    i get that conflict is important but it gets a little uncomfortable at times just seeing them all be so cold to one another

    #232225
    bloodteller
    Participant

    watched Holoship last night, and there’s one line i really don’t get. after Rimmer complains that you’re defined by your job, Kryten starts listing great people who had mundane jobs- Albert Camus, Albert Einstein. he then goes on to say “And of course there’s the oft told tale of the simple carpenter’s son who went on to own the largest chain of pizza stores in history, Harry Bedelbau(?)”

    i’m sorry, who? i even tried googling this one and got nothing. what’s all that about.

    #232226
    Dave
    Participant

    Not sure if you’re joking, but the implication is that he’s about to tell the story of Jesus – “a simple carpenter’s son who…” – but it then turns out to be somebody (fictional) who is a lot more mundane than you were led to expect.

    #232227
    bloodteller
    Participant

    oh, that makes sense. i probably would’ve got it if there was a pause between “simple carpenter’s son” and the rest of the sentence, but since it’s one unbroken line i just assumed it was about a real person.

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