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  • #80153
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > About it being good (I agree)? Or about the ending (disagree, except in an almost absolutely literal ex machina way)?

    Well, correct about the quality of the episode.

    #80159
    Dave
    Participant

    >before the series finale and what people call a big buttfucking surprise

    Doctor Who: The Sodomy shocked many of us. That was a very bad bad wolf indeed.

    #80169
    John Hoare
    Participant

    Ironically the way Marleen used the term in Boom town actually is applicable. At least I?m pretty sure it is, since the resolution really did come out of nowhere this time. The heart of the Tardis was opened and the lady turned into an egg.

    At the risk of starting this whole argument all over again – and I’m sure everyone else is deliberately ignoring this, but I can’t help it – that’s not a deux ex machina. The Heart of the TARDIS is mentioned right back in the third serial ever – The Edge of Destruction – but even forgetting that, the TARDIS has to have a power source. And – crucially – the TARDIS travels in time. Link the two together, and you can see the reasoning behind her regressing back into an egg.

    Badly set up? Possibly, depending on your viewpoint. But it’s not a deux ex machina – because there is a certain amount of logical reasoning, no matter how bad or not people might think it is.

    (Unless you go by this “redefined” definition that seems to include everything and anything along the lines of “I don’t think they set that up very well, and I don’t like it”, which I don’t think is a useful way to use the term. People should just say that they don’t think the plot point works very well and give reasons for it, rather than sticking a label on it which doesn’t really help in specific critical discussions as to why they don’t think something works.)

    Look, I’m really sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. SORRY.

    #80173
    Andrew
    Participant

    John’s right – but the reason I say “except in an almost absolutely literal ex machina way” is because the huge power that provides the solution DOES come from ‘the machine’ (the TARDIS). So it’s a meta DEM…but, once again, there’s enough set-up – in the episode, but also just in the general logic of the show – that it’s not a DEM in the critical sense.

    Still, as the man says, ‘badly set up’ is a valid enough criticism.

    Yes, okay, I’m walking away.

    #80175
    TheLeen
    Participant

    But I don’t think it’s BADLY set up! I *don’t* don’t like the resolution either. I’m not critisizing the ending. That’s just not what I wanted to express. What I did want to express was that it was something in the general direction of “resolution to a story that […] is so unlikely that it challenges suspension of disbelief, allowing the author to conclude the story with an unlikely, though more palatable, ending.” Which happens to be the modern times definition of “deus ex machina”. ;) (And I don’t overuse the term, in fact I rarely ever use it at all. In fact, I don’t even remember when I have ever used it before. Ever.)

    Mind you, I never heard of “The Edge of Destruction”. Ahem.

    Okay, let’s move on, cause I’m going to go and watch “Bad Wolf” now. Haha. Sorry. Can’t wait. I mean I literally cannot.

    #80178
    Andrew
    Participant

    Oh Marleen, if only you knew how much trouble that awful Wikipedia entry has caused!

    #80179
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Okay, so, well, Pro7 is rumoured to broadcast series two episodes of Who directly after series one, so I figured it would be a genuinely great idea for me to watch the remaining series one episodes now, like, this weekend. So I have enough time to get my hands on copies of those telly specials that Pro7 might or might not broadcast in between the series.

    And also, I’m impatient. But that is very secondary a reason. Of course.

    Episode 1×11 – Bad Wolf

    Well, there was me all hyped up about that “bad wolf” stuff. Ooooh. And it was… hm… it was quite good. Another two-parter. Might have guessed. I just wish I hadn’t accidentally seen the episode preview yesterday which showed Daleks. Why are those even on the DVDs?

    The good

    Anne Droid, hahaha, brilliant.
    – Sequel to “The Long Game”, continuity, I love it.
    – Some pretty good lines for the Doctor.
    – The backflashes to the “Bad Wolf” stuff (“Ahhhh! Ohhhh!”) but they forgot to show the German bomb which said “Schlechter Wolf” on the side. (The correct translation would have been “B?ser Wolf” (evil wolf) anyway.)
    – Nice building up of the arc over the course of the series. I include the episode “Dalek” in that, not only the “Bad Wolf” references.
    – Daleks, I love them.
    – OMG EPIC INVASION!

    The bad and the general (they group up today)

    All the telly stuff in the beginning of the episode was fun, but in a bit of a light-hearted way. It wasn’t… epic. If not for the episode title, I would have expected some more light-hearted “just for fun” episode. It was really weird. It started out to be a media satire, then a sequel to “The Long Game”, then suddenly turned into a western, to turn into a drama, to turn into “Woo she ain’t dead” antidrama and then very suddenly very epic. I’m not sure I like this. I did like all the fragments, it’s just… the episode seemed fragmented. Not as fluid as other episodes. This is, of course, not taking away from the story.

    #80180
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > Oh Marleen, if only you knew how much trouble that awful Wikipedia entry has caused!

    I’ll know one day, let me catch up on Who episodes first though :)

    #80181
    Andrew
    Participant

    Woo-hoo – headed for the season climax!

    > but they forgot to show the German bomb which said ?Schlechter Wolf?

    Ah, you’ll have spotted this better than anyone – was that seen clearly in the ep? it was clear in production stills, but my recollection was that it wasn’t clearly photographed in the show.

    (Also, what’s Schlechter then?)

    (That said, flashback-wise, it would have confused anyone who didn’t get the translation…)

    #80183
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > Ah, you?ll have spotted this better than anyone

    I didn’t spot it at all :( someone posted a the picture on the German Who forums in the episode’s thread…

    “Schlecht” is one possible literal translation for “bad”, but we use it in a lot of different contexts: he is a bad husband, this is bad for me, but also: the milk has gone bad.

    “Schlechter Wolf” sounds to my ears like there’s a wolf and he’s not very good at being a wolf (like… a bad golfer or something). Either that or the wolf’s gone mouldy.

    The “big bad wolf” from the fairytales is “der b?se Wolf” though – the evil Wolf.

    In the same thread, someone said that the words “Mal Loup” appeared somewhere in Who as well (although I don’t know where and when), which also means “bad wolf” as in “schlechter Wolf” – the correct translation would have been “m?chant loup” / evil (possibly alternatively: rabid) wolf.

    So someone isn’t very good with foreign languages – either the BBC or the Dalek ;)

    #80184
    Andrew
    Participant

    > ?Schlechter Wolf? sounds to my ears like there?s a wolf and he?s not very good at being a wolf

    Is it wrong that I find this hysterical? “Lousy Wolf”. He he! :-D

    But yeah, that’s the reason, then – the production still’s available, but the full side of the bomb was never filmed clearly enough to show as part of the flashback.

    #80186
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Yeah. “Mouldy wolf” is even worse I suppose. *g*

    So it’s probably for the best that you can’t read any of that in the episode.

    #80187
    TheLeen
    Participant

    French bad wolf: “Continuing the “Bad Wolf” theme begun in “The End of the World”, the American newsreader announcing the UN’s decision is named “Mal Loup”, French for “Bad Wolf”. The name appears not in the televised clip, but the version on Mickey’s website.” (says wikipedia)

    #80188
    Andrew
    Participant

    This is what happens when you use translation websites as a shortcut.

    (Something I fully admit to having done for various things – including the Czech in the Beat the Geek booklet, Latin in an old Toaster interview, and maybe, I can’t recall for sure, on the Remsatered text track…)

    #80207
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 1×13 – The Parting of the Ways

    Episode summary: the Daleks go insane, Rose becomes a goddess and then goes insane, the Doctor is already insane, then he bursts and becomes even more insane. Insanity of epic proportions.

    The good

    – Well, it was Who and it was fun to watch.
    – Daleks. Dalek Emperor. Dalek God. Dalek with God complex calling my Doctor the devil. Gee, that was weird. Daleks in front of the window, oh noes.
    – I really dig Billie’s acting of Rose as a Goddess.
    – A lot of snogging going on in that episode! Never fantasised about my Doctor and Jack, but now I wish I had!

    The slightly less good, the slightly bad and the cheesy

    – I don’t understand the episode title. What’s the parting of the ways then? My Doctor dying? Them leaving behind Jack? Rose taking a stand?
    – So the timelords have this little trick to cheat death. This little trick really is very little. I’d been thinking along the lines of rebirth, symbiont (as in Star Trek’s trills or Star Gate’s Egyptian thingies), mind transfer, snatching the body of someone about to die, brother from a parallel dimension… but my Doctor just burst like a balloon and was someone else, like that makes sense. Okay, it is from a time when the system didn’t have to compete with so many other common sci-fi ways to renew yourself. But it is still so totally random. I think in “Rose” my Doctor saw his own ears for the first time, so he seems not to have been there for very long at all :(
    – I didn’t mind the “Goddess-out-of-the-machine” (in lack of a better term) resolution, but Vin found it a bit cheesy.
    – Vin didn’t mind the “I sent myself the hints” bad wolf resolution, but I found it a bit cheesy.

    The “What the fuck”

    – The buttfucking surprise? When the Doctor kissed Rose. Really hadn’t seen that coming. Like, whoa.

    The unresolved

    – What about Captain Jack? Oh, right, the Doctor thinks he’s dead, and Rose doesn’t remember she revived him. He’ll MacGyver himself out of the space station though somehow, I think.
    – What about Rickymickey? I always thought there was something behind the Doctor calling him Ricky, and I thought it was going to be cleared up before the end of the series!

    The general

    I always had the feeling that the ninth Doctor is quite, quite mad. I think the tenth Doctor looks even more insane. I am looking forward to seeing more of him, although it is really quite sad to know that the ninth Doctor, MY DOCTOR, will not be coming back.

    About series one

    Like I said earlier, in the beginning I had real problems connecting with the characters. Now, at the end of series one, I really love them. I got acquainted with both Doctor and Rose (to a much lesser degree, Jack) and at the same time they got acquainted with each other. That was nice. It was like actually feeling the friendship grow. I’ve been re-watching “Dalek” and “The Doctor Dances” several times during the last few days because I just love to see my Doctor with all those emotions. I think that happens when you love someone. I’ll end my review here before I go all corny and sentimental.

    Now, with the Doctor being renewed, how crucial is it for me to watch the two telly specials? And are they both contained in the series two box set? Cause I am really thinking about buying that now. This started out with me just wanting to know what the fuss is about, and ended up with me being addicted. Might have known, really.

    My final series one hit list

    “excellent”

    01 Dalek
    02 The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
    03 Father?s Day

    “very enjoyable”

    04 Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways
    05 The Long Game
    06 The Unquiet Dead
    07 Boom Town
    08 The End of the World

    “hmm yeah”

    09 Rose
    10 Aliens of London / World War Three

    #80208
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Right, well, you probably don’t need to watch the few-minutes-long “Children in Need” special, it really is just a couple of minutes of the new Doctor being mental in the TARDIS. If you go from that straight to “The Christmas Invasion”, you’ll miss nothing.

    But you absolutely definitely have to watch the first Christmas special. Not only is it very important plot-wise (first story with the new Doctor, something happens to him that keeps cropping up throughout series three and four, plus something happens with a certain character that is aching to be resolved in the near future), but it’s also quite, quite brilliant (I think). Tremendously good fun, although expect a slightly different tone with it being a Christmas Day special.

    I think it is in the series two boxset, though – it is, after all, for all intents and purposes the first episode of series two.

    I’m loving this whole experiment :-) I like how you’ve become so enamoured with Eccleston’s Doctor… but I can’t see you not loving Tennant, as well.

    #80209
    TheLeen
    Participant

    I probably will. But for now, I’m grieving.

    #80211
    TheLeen
    Participant

    So while the children in need special is loading on youtube, I go to see how much the series two box set is today. They’re all between 45 and 52 pounds as per usual, just series two has mysteriously dropped to 35 quid. Amazon, are you reading this??

    What can I say? I’m weak. Pathetic. I ordered it.

    #80212
    Andrew
    Participant

    SO interesting to see how regeneration – something we kinda take for granted as part of the standard Who lore – affects an ‘outsider’. Marleen, you’re in the bizarre position of knowing some of what it must have been like for all those kids who saw it happen for the first time in the 60s.

    The CiN special is worth a look for this reason if no other – it’ll help make some sense of the process.

    (Don’t click on the wrong special, though. The other one’s from two series later!)

    #80213
    Dave
    Participant

    >?Schlechter Wolf? sounds to my ears like there?s a wolf and he?s not very good at being a wolf

    Now that you’ve seen the finale and are aware that the Bad Wolf isn’t the villain of the piece, maybe lousy wolf isn’t such a bad translation.

    >What about Captain Jack? Oh, right, the Doctor thinks he?s dead, and Rose doesn?t remember she revived him

    Well…

    >how crucial is it for me to watch the two telly specials?

    The Children In Need mini episode puts a spin on the above. Let us know what you think.

    >I just love to see my Doctor…I?ll end my review here before I go all corny and sentimental.

    I rewatched Series 1 recently and was surprised how much I enjoyed it afresh, and how much I remembered of that 13 week period. The highs, lows and the not quite knowing what was coming next. I think I managed to forget that Eccleston was leaving and was almost shocked when he eventually did.

    Tennant will be your Doctor too, eventually.

    #80215
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > Now that you?ve seen the finale and are aware that the Bad Wolf isn?t the villain of the piece, maybe lousy wolf isn?t such a bad translation.

    I think now that I know that it was Rose, I can live with bad translations!

    > (Don?t click on the wrong special, though. The other one?s from two series later!)

    Realised just in time. Thanks :)

    > The Children In Need mini episode puts a spin on the above. Let us know what you think.

    I had a brief look now, but I’ll watch it again next week together with the christmas ep.

    #80218
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    By the way, the Children in Need special *is* on the Series 2 box set, on the same disc as The Christmas Invasion.

    #80217
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Wasn’t the mini episode special set quite a bit later, just before the latest Christmas special? Or was there more than one?

    It won’t really spoil much though as the main drama is… well you’ll see.

    Concerning the last episodes, yeah I wasn’t too sure of the end resolution either, but it was ok.

    As for Tennant, he’s a great doctor I reckon. A Scotsman faking a London accent. Tee hee. (You see the characters gone from a northener to a southener now. Accents change with regenerations too. ;) )

    You might find another show called Torchwood interesting, but I’d suggest you watch series 2 first.

    #80219
    Dave
    Participant

    >Bear in mind the mini episode special is set quite a bit later, just before the latest Christmas special.

    If you mean Time Crash, that’s the wrong CiN ep.

    #80220
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Ah ok. Forget what I said Marleen.

    (Actually I don’t think I’ve seen that children in need special then…)

    #80221
    Dave
    Participant
    #80222
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    > By the way, the Children in Need special *is* on the Series 2 box set, on the same disc as The Christmas Invasion.

    It’s in hilariously poor shape on the DVD. Really quite hideous. It’s not had it’s final cut, so the recap at the start goes on forever and pretty much all the sound effects and music are temporary.

    It just goes to show what a slap dash, uncaring attitude they have to the DVDs. SHAME ON THEM.

    #80225
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Shh, don’t tell me that, I’ve just spent a fortune on Who DVDs.

    Which reminds me that I can now watch all the series one DVD extras, w00t!

    #80226
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Cheers Dave, I hadn’t see that. Explains something I wondered about to, and filled in a hole so to speak.

    #80227
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    I probably will. But for now, I?m grieving.

    I predict that this will last up until the moment Ten first wears his proper Doctor outfit for the first time. I won’t say when, why or how this occurs, but if you’re not in love with him at that point, you’re a very strange person indeed.

    #80228
    TheLeen
    Participant

    It’s great to have people to share my impressions with! This has been a lot of fun for me, too. I can just continue with series two. Although it might be a good idea to start a new thread. This has become… huge. *g*

    #80416
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Soooooooo, … series two hath arrived.

    And wow, what a nice box this is! Lovely. What’s that effect called? Tilt picture or something? Really like it. Although it’s kid of hard to avoid spoilers when pictures of funny-looking aliens are all over the DVD cases. I’m looking forward to the squid-like things!

    Children in Need Special

    Let me start by saying that it was a great idea to produce a few minutes special as a teaser for series two. I don’t think we do that sort of thing on German telly. Or maybe we do and I don’t know, for I watch neither German drama series nor tv shows.

    I thought Rose was a bit out of character though. She’s seen so much and never really came unglued, and then the Doctor’s appearance randomly changes and she becomes all timid. (I know she’d be baffled but not completely lose it…?)

    I didn’t understand why they had to crash land, and I don’t think it was really cleared up in The Christmas Invasion either.

    The Christmas Invasion

    Now for episode zero of series two. And haha, it had to start with Jackie saying “Doctor Who?!”

    Good stuff

    – The holowhip. I love holowhips.
    – Doctor in a pyjama.
    – The Sycorax looked strangely familiar.
    – And I quite liked the morbid scene in the end.

    Other stuff

    – Epic swordfight?
    – Rose, Jackie & Mickey seem to have made their peace with the Doctor being new. I haven’t. Blah.
    – His final outfit includes a tie. … a tie??
    – But anyway, if he’s got so many outfits there and never really changes during his “incarnations” he seems to have lots of lives left, heh.
    – Torchwood again! Now if I didn’t already know that it’s a spin-off, I’d be intrigued.

    Overall impression

    It was definitely funny, but the episode wasn’t nearly as nonsensical as I’d expected. But I’m kind of glad it wasn’t the official episode one of series two. Because that means that there’s one moer to watch for me ;)

    #80417
    Andrew
    Participant

    > What?s that effect called? Tilt picture or something?

    “Lenticular”.

    > I didn?t understand why they had to crash land

    The Doctor just sort of…decided to do it. For a laugh. Because his regeneration was failing his judgement went a bit bonkers.

    > Torchwood again! Now if I didn?t already know that it?s a spin-off, I?d be intrigued.

    To be fair, at this point in the story, it wasn’t yet a spin-off. (The first spin-off series is set AFTER Who series two.) Just…pretend you haven’t heard about it. :-)

    Oh I can’t wait for the series two posts!

    #80421
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > ?Lenticular?.

    Cheers :)

    > The Doctor just sort of?decided to do it.

    What?

    > For a laugh.

    What?

    > Because his regeneration was failing his judgement went a bit bonkers.

    Yeah, I could see that!

    Hours later, I figured the Tardis was, hm, a bit more rubbish than usual because the Doctor was a bit rubbish as well.

    > To be fair, at this point in the story, it wasn?t yet a spin-off. (The first spin-off series is set AFTER Who series two.) Just?pretend you haven?t heard about it. :-)

    Torchwood was mentioned in The Weakest Link. Gah, I can’t remember the actual wording.

    > Oh I can?t wait for the series two posts!

    I can’t wait to write them!

    #80426
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I thought Rose was a bit out of character though. She?s seen so much and never really came unglued, and then the Doctor?s appearance randomly changes and she becomes all timid.

    Also – re. this – I’m quite surprised. I really LIKE how unhinged it leaves Rose for a moment – the Doctor being the one definite constant through all this madness. Surprising he may be, but he’s always ‘the man she met’. I think her reaction is a spot-on bit of writing – it rings true to me. Rose goes through a lot, but she always has one fixed point to cling to…and now it’s moved.

    (Of course this may be down to my reactions to old episodes where the companion’s immediate opinion sometimes seemed truthLESS…but I won’t discuss those here!)

    #80427
    Dave
    Participant

    > ?Lenticular?.

    I was going to suggest hologram.

    > Torchwood was mentioned in The Weakest Link. Gah, I can?t remember the actual wording

    Anne-Droid: Broff, the Great Cobalt Pyramid is built on the remains of which famous Old Earth Institute?

    Broff: T, T, Touchdown?

    Anne-Droid: No – Torchwood.

    I really like The Christmas Invasion, it’s easily the best of the Xmas specials. What did you think of the Doctor’s new hand? The PM always introducing herself? The Queen up on the roof?

    #80428
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > (Of course this may be down to my reactions to old episodes where the companion?s immediate opinion sometimes seemed truthLESS?but I won?t discuss those here!)

    That makes complete sense.

    > What did you think of the Doctor?s new hand?

    Cheating the contest.

    > The PM always introducing herself?

    Clever, funny, and a reference to an earlier episode. Brilliant.

    > The Queen up on the roof?

    Hahaha. Is she really A+?
    Scary: *I* would’ve been on the roof. And I’m afraid of heights. Ahhhhhhhhh!

    #80429
    Andrew
    Participant

    > I was going to suggest hologram.

    That would have been exactly the right word…to describe something else. :-)

    #80430
    TheLeen
    Participant

    New Earth

    Didn’t want to wait ;)

    The good

    – Kittens.
    – Back references: Face of Boe, Cassandra,
    – “Gollum”, hahaha.
    – Both Billie Piper and David Tennant do a great job playing Cassandra. Or so I thought anyway. And whats-her-name dentist wife woman did a good job either.
    – As always, nice details make everything fun (apple grass) and believable (in a way) (green moon).

    The rest

    – The Doctor knows a bit about medicine, then? What, you put it all into a big pot and then spray it at someone and that cures all illnesses? And it’s transferable as well? If so, he shouldn’t have wasted everything on the zombies and kept some of it for the rest of the universe… and him/Rose. And what did he need the elevator for? Could’ve just thrown a bucket at them…
    – Hmm, so first Cassandra tries to be as flat as possible. Next, she would sell her own grandmother for a curvy body. And in the end, she suddenly says “oh, no thanks, I’ll just die”. Hmm. Hmm? And then the Doctor leads this incredibly selfish and dangerous woman back through time into a group of people. I would have thought she’d blow herself into anyone. Probably into herself. Didn’t like the ending.
    – Zombies… two times in as many episodes (Ill-cloned zombies here, blood-controlled zombies earlier)
    – Still waiting to get used to the new Doctor. But it’s slowy, very slowly getting better. I think Rose fancies him though. Not sure whether I approve of that. When I first saw Doctor Who (har har) I thought it was quite original to not have romance goin on between the Doctor and the girl.

    And overall

    I thought it was slightly better than “The Christmas Invasion”.

    #80432
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >I thought it was slightly better than ?The Christmas Invasion?.

    Heresy! ;-)

    Nah, sorry, I just hate New Earth (although, to be fair, I don’t think I’ve watched it since original broadcast, when it was ludicrously underwhelming for a series opener), whereas I think TCI is a tremendously fun romp.

    >> The PM always introducing herself?

    >Clever, funny, and a reference to an earlier episode. Brilliant.

    Yeah, I loved this. One of my favourite lines in New Who is the guy translating from Sycorax “We know who you are”…

    (of course, my absolute favourite line… well, don’t want to spoil it, but it comes in the last episode of series two. Watching it at the time, Ian, Cappsy and myself were genuinely LOLing)

    #80437
    TheLeen
    Participant

    >Nah, sorry, I just hate New Earth (although, to be fair, I don?t think I?ve watched it since original broadcast, when it was ludicrously underwhelming for a series opener)

    … and I thought it was a lot better than “Rose” ;)

    #80442
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    >When I first saw Doctor Who (har har) I thought it was quite original to not have romance goin on between the Doctor and the girl.

    You didn’t think Rose would have with the Ninth Doctor? Hmm. Actually, it’s probably the first time ‘romance’ (if you can call it that) has really been hinted at in Doctor Who. It’s really not conventional romance.

    #80446
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    >Actually, it?s probably the first time ?romance? (if you can call it that) has really been hinted at in Doctor Who

    Probably the first time it’s been so blatant, but I think with both the Third Doctor and Jo, and the Fourth and Romana, there were definite *hints* of something going on offscreen…

    #80455
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I seem to recall hearing in an interview that Elizabeth Sladen (Sarah Jane) and Tom Baker played the roles as if they were “involved”, so there’s something else to chew on.

    #80456
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > You didn?t think Rose would have with the Ninth Doctor?

    Who wouldn’t! :D

    Hm. I saw it as somewhat of a family-like relationship. You could see there was a lot of affection going on between the Ninth Doctor and Rose, going both ways. But it never had the air of dating for me, and I liked it that way.

    I do like to see people fall in love, but on telly it is *everywhere*!

    #80458
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×02 – Tooth and Claw

    Can’t stop now :)

    What we liked

    – Oooh, classic spine-chiller ghost story. And a werewolf. Great.
    – And oooh, set in everyone’s favourite epoch – Victorian England. Great!
    – It’s like a follow-up on “The Unquiet Dead”, isn’t it? Just better.
    – I enjoyed every minute of listening to people speaking with Scottish accent!
    – Speaking of which – was the Doctor’s accent convincing to your native ears? I thought he did a good job!
    – Many clever & brave women in this episode.
    – STEAMPUNK MENTION.
    – Sir Doctor of Tardis, hahaha. Dame Rose of the Powell Estate, hahahahaha. Brilliant.
    – And so Victora banished them from The Great Britain (like that’s gonna work :( ). Yeah, she would have done.

    What else there is to say

    – So, did the monks use the wolf or serve it? And why was the wolf in a cage? And why were they shaolin? Are they up to anything else there?
    – Wow, the monks’ orange surely hurt my eyes in the first scene. I think they went a bit overboard in post production :P
    – I didn’t mind, but Vin was slightly bothered by the plot’s internal logic. “Why didn’t his dad prepare all walls with mistle oil? Why hasn’t he left detailed instructions?” and such. The plot was fairly constructed and Daddy’s plan relied too much on good fortune. But I thought it was good anyway.
    – I’m slowly, so very slowly getting used to the Tenth Doctor. It’s getting better.

    Overall

    Vin says the episode is of average quality while I myself thought it was great, I genuinely enjoyed every minute of it. So much fun! My favourite episode of this series so far.

    What I know about Torchwood

    – Torchwood is destroyed by the year 200.000 and replaced with the Great Cobalt Pyramid (Bad Wolf)
    – Torchwood is something the modern day prime minister should not know about. But she does anyway and orders them to fire a powerful alien tech green beam at an alien ship. (The Christmas Invasion)
    – If Torchwood was mentioned in “New Earth”, I don’t remember it now. It probably was, though.
    – Torchwood is an institute against alien threats (and the Doctor is considered one), initially founded by Queen Victoria in Scotland (Tooth and Claw)
    – Conclusion:
    – Oh and – a spin-off starting after Who’s series 2.

    More Who next weekend!

    #80459
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Speaking of which – was the Doctor?s accent convincing to your native ears? I thought he did a good job!

    I’m not sure whether you’re being sarcastic, but I’ll state for the record that DT is Scottish and the accent is his genuine voice.

    >(of course, my absolute favourite line? well, don?t want to spoil it, but it comes in the last episode of series two. Watching it at the time, Ian, Cappsy and myself were genuinely LOLing)

    Spolier text please, Seb!

    #80461
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > I?m not sure whether you?re being sarcastic, but I?ll state for the record that DT is Scottish and the accent is his genuine voice.

    Uhm… lol. That’s solved, then.

    #80463
    Tanya Jones
    Participant

    > Probably the first time it?s been so blatant, but I think with both the Third Doctor and Jo, and the Fourth and Romana, there were definite *hints* of something going on offscreen?

    Yeah, fair point, and I’m not even sure it was that blatant with Rose, either. As far as I can see, Martha was the first companion to openly have an infatuation with the Doctor. To my mind, it would be unrealistic if there wasn’t some male/female chemistry going on; there has to be a reason why the companion wants to be there, if you’re not going to use some other relationship like the one between the Doctor and Leela, or the Doctor and Ace, etc. Donna as a companion is quite interesting, as she is quite clear in stating that there’s no romance at all between her and Doctor, but I think that’s the first time a companion has done that.

    #80465
    Andrew
    Participant

    Probably best to shift the romance chatter to the other thread – we’re intruding on Marleen’s Who vacuum!

    #80647
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×03 – School Reunion

    Hmm.

    Positive

    – More Mickey. (Although I still can’t believe Mickey the idiot would be able to hack into the government’s intranet. Nooo way.) (Buffalo??!!)
    – So the code gives you access to the universe’s building blocks. How cool is that? By the way, some three months ago I dreamt that I could manipulate the universe through pseudo SQL queries. I left-joined the kitchen to the bedroom for quicker access to the fridge. Awesome.
    – Exploding school, one of my favourites.

    Neutral, or worse

    – Highschool, vampires, Anthony Head – is this an hommage to Buffy? If so, I’d probably enjoyed it a good bit more if I liked Buffy ;) (SORRY ANDREW)
    – Heh, the Doctor should’ve taken the opportunity. Nahhh, of coruse he shouldn’t have! That would have been immoral! But I think he should have, actually.
    – OMG, no one killed Kenny.
    – K-9 looks sooooo retro. And his name is sooooo retro.
    – Sarah Jane reminded me of Mary McDonnell
    – Didn’t appreciate Sarah Jane. She’d bloody better be a real Doctor Who character and not invented for that episode. Blah.

    And back to “positive”

    – Stuff I looked up on the ‘net (I had to!): Her name is Elisabeth Sladen, and she starred in Doctor Who from 1973 to 1983 (81 episodes, omfg), as well as several films, a Doctor Who one in 1993 and something to do with K-9 in 1981. Okay, fine. Looks like she’s allowed to exist, then.
    – HUGE continuity bonus.

    Conclusion

    At first Vin and I had a really good time, shouting “nooooo, hide!” at the big kid. But watching really also left me… pensive. After all, in between the shape-shifting bats from space and their mutant superbrain oil there’s some rather serious issues being discussed in this episode.
    So, all in all, good espisode that left me sulking; I’m afraid I liked the last one better.

    #80648
    Andrew
    Participant

    I’d been concerned about how School Reunion would go down, because it really relies on the nostalgia factor. You don’t need the specifics, but vague memories of seeing a previous Doctor running around with K9 and Sarah Jane are sorta required to get the best out of it.

    Also: Buffy’s amazing TV. Is just is. So ner.

    #80652
    ChrisM
    Participant

    “- Didn?t appreciate Sarah Jane. She?d bloody better be a real Doctor Who character and not invented for that episode. Blah.”

    She’s had two spin-off shows too. K-9 and company in the ‘old days’ and the Sarah Jane adventures (or some such name) a modern show.

    Didn’t see much of the former (which seems like a good thing, I found K-9 irritating for some reason, although I didn’t mind him in this New Who episode) and only a couple of episodes of the latter… which actually wasn’t that bad, although it’s aimed primarily at kiddies.

    #80664
    John Hoare
    Participant

    School Reunion I’m just not keen on. (And I’ve gone on about it before, but I’ll blather on anyway.) It has its good moments – Anthony Head is wonderful, the Krillitines are some of the best CGI monsters Who have done (too similar to that thing in Father’s Day, mind), and “I’m the tin dog” is one of my favourite lines. And the teaser is deliciously nasty.

    But, teaser aside, the school setting doesn’t do much for me, and – and I know I’m generally alone on this – but “THE. LOCH. NESS. MONSTER!!!!!!1111” and accompanying dialogue makes me want to scream, it’s so awkward and embarassing and poor. But crucially, for me, the whole episode is hung up on the returning companion = ex-girlfriend thing. Which is a clever idea… but they hardly do anything with it. And what they DO do with it just feels painfully obvious and clunky to me, which is quite some achivement for something that (to my knowledge) the show has never examined properly before…

    Whilst I’m really beginning to hate the phrase “the episode thinks it’s cleverer than it is”, it’s unfortunately the vibe I get from the episode.

    #80667
    TheLeen
    Participant

    I enjoyed the whole missus vs ex stuff, including the Nessie dialogue 8) But you’re right, it probably could’ve been done… in a more delicate way.

    #80668
    Ian Symes
    Keymaster

    Stuff I looked up on the ?net (I had to!): Her name is Elisabeth Sladen, and she starred in Doctor Who from 1973 to 1983 (81 episodes, omfg), as well as several films, a Doctor Who one in 1993 and something to do with K-9 in 1981. Okay, fine. Looks like she?s allowed to exist, then.

    The 1993 one wasn’t a film, it was a travesty. Dimensions In Time, a piss-poor Doctor Who/Eastenders crossover for Children In Need. And the 1981 one wasn’t a film either, it was a pilot for a spin-off series that didn’t get picked up. The best thing about it was the demented theme tune, which consisted of some electronic beeps with John Leeson shouting “K-9!” at random intervals.

    #80669
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > Doctor Who/Eastenders crossover

    What??!!!
    Nooooooooooooo wayyyyy.
    (I have to see that for myself at some point.)

    > The best thing about it was the demented theme tune, which consisted of some electronic beeps with John Leeson shouting ?K-9!? at random intervals.

    Found a snippet of it on youtube. Brilliant music.

    Thanks for the info, to you too Marbloid.

    #80670
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Episode 2×04 – The Girl in the Fireplace

    Now we’re talking!

    The Good

    – I like the episodes set in the past. They gots costumes and stuff.
    – More strong women.
    – More Mickey. And again, he had some of the best lines. I don’t remember now what they were, but they were brilliant.
    – Nice fear factor.
    – No, you can’t keep the pony.
    – Classic sci-fi. (“The repair droids just did what they were told to do. No one’s told them that the crew weren’t on the menu.”)
    – Classic sci-if ending (showing the ship’s behind).
    – STEAMPUNK.
    – There was more but my sis rang before I could type this. I’ll just have to watch the episode again in the afternoon.

    The Other

    – Aww, no happy ending for Ms Pompadour. Which makes the episode even better, I suppose. (I know, after watching “The Doctor Dances” I complained about the HAPPY happy ending. Now I’m complaining that it was a not-so-happy happy ending.)
    – Actually, that was a bit daft of the Doctor. “Back in five minutes”, he should’ve known better. The ship was a bit rubbish…
    – I can just picture the production crew’s faces when they read the script. “… and then the Doctor rides the horse from the space ship into the ballroom, right into the crowd, through a mirror up on the wall.” A nightmare. Paid off though. (Although you COULD see that it was cgi.)
    – King Louis looked vaguely familiar… ? But really wasn’t in anything else so I’m probably making this up

    The Else

    I don’t know why Moffat’s so brilliant, but he is. The dialogue’s fantastic, the story’s fantastic. It’s the kind of telly that leaves me euphoric and wanting more. Fantastic. Best episode so far in series two, and up there with the best of series one’s episodes. Probably somewhere between Father’s Day and The Empty Child, or maybe even better than the WW2 ones.

    I know I shouldn’t have, but I watched the preview. Next week: an alternative London that is kinda like ours, but a little bit not (Sliders?) and (ta-daa!) CYBERDUDES. I am really, really looking forward to that.

    #80671
    TheLeen
    Participant

    But why could they speak & understand French when the TARDIS was 3000 years away? Hm.

    #80672
    Andrew
    Participant

    “The TARDIS gets into your brain.” Apparently.

    #80673
    TheLeen
    Participant

    Even French?!

    #80679
    Dave
    Participant

    The TARDIS Frenches your brain.

    #80680
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Thanks for the info, to you too Marbloid.

    Heh, you’re welcome. Seems I was wrong about the K-9 and company series, though, it appears that never got made. I never actually saw it although I saw a clip from the pilot, the dodgy music and the intro. sequence.

    Think I might change my id. Most people seem to use their own name on this site don’t they?

    And yeah, the Tardis automatically translates for you and those you speak to. Right in your brain, so you actually hear in your own language… if that makes sense. Think of it as being like the Universal Translator in Star Trek.

    Good point about the French setting actually being thousands of miles away, (actually it would be millions since the ship is in deeps space), I never thought of that. There are lots of portals though, so I imagine the Tardis can ‘broadcast’ (for want of a better term) through them? Of course that doesn’t really explain how it could continue when the time portals connection was broken later.

    I think likely distance isn’t a factor as long as The Doctor is conscious. (Actually I don’t think ordinary sleep would disrupt the circuit either, bear in mind he was out of sorts after a regeneraton in that Christmas invasion episode.) The Tardis can travel (mostly) anywhere anywhen, so it can likely communicate that way too. (With a small upgrade it allows mobile phones to be used after all.) Or maybe we’re thinking about it too much. ;)

    Concerning the Girl in the Fireplace, I liked that episode too. I never quite understood why the droids were that design though. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the whole clockwork thing, but it seemed a rather different technology to the ship itself. That’s assuming they were part of the ship’s own repair mechanism (which I thought was the case) rather than a bunch of alien droids who turned up later. Considering their limited programming, I think they were the former.

    #80682
    TheLeen
    Participant

    > Of course that doesn?t really explain how it could continue when the time portals connection was broken later.

    Well, if the Doctor speaks some 5 billion languages like he claims, that wouldn’t be a problem, as he’s the only one there. Well, he and the droids…

    #80684
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >Well, if the Doctor speaks some 5 billion languages like he claims, that wouldn?t be a problem

    No it wouldn’t. (I missed that bit. But it’s been a while since I saw those episodes.)

    #80686
    Seb Patrick
    Keymaster

    Of course that doesn?t really explain how it could continue when the time portals connection was broken later.

    Well, if the Doctor speaks some 5 billion languages like he claims, that wouldn?t be a problem, as he?s the only one there. Well, he and the droids?

    Yeah, I was going to say – I don’t think Rose and Mickey ever go back to France. And you would think the Doctor would be able to speak French… and so when Reinette does join them on the ship in the future, Rose and Mickey are close enough to the TARDIS for it to translate.

    #80689
    Jonathan Capps
    Keymaster

    So the code gives you access to the universe?s building blocks. How cool is that? By the way, some three months ago I dreamt that I could manipulate the universe through pseudo SQL queries. I left-joined the kitchen to the bedroom for quicker access to the fridge. Awesome.

    I love you.

    #80697
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    The Girl in the Fireplace = Very, very good. My appreciation of Doctor Who does not extend to buying any merchandise (aside from The Nth Doctor, a fascinating book), but it’s telling that this episode reminds on my Sky+ two years later.

    >Think I might change my id. Most people seem to use their own name on this site don?t they?

    They do? Oh, OK.

    #80699
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Heh. Good one Shithead.

    See I can say that and I’m not being insulting

    #80703
    John Hoare
    Participant
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