Look Who’s back (No spoilage? Pretty please with sugar on?)

[TheLeen]

I confess I haven’t see Dr Who. Ever. None of it, not even old episodes. I read it was on German telly briefly towards the end of the eighties, but somehow I missed that, busy with elementary school as I was.

Soooo, for some time now I’ve been visiting DVD rentals asking them for Who and never got any. Well. My boyfriend said, why don’t you complain to the channel that bought the rights for the new couple of series and never broadcast them? So I google them and what does the first link tell me?

Dr Who, from end of January, Saturdays, 5 PM. (It is now Saturday, 4.45 PM CET.) Eek!
http://www.space-view.de/news/13171058/2007/12/dr_who_ab_januar_2008_auf_pro7.html

But it starts next week :)

Dubbed version. But better than nothing, for a start. (Looked into buying some time ago, but it’s expensive.)

Soon I’ll be knowing what the fuck you lot are talking about.

Topic

[Andrew]

> You guys had made my mouth water

You forgot to leave a gap here for John to have an obscene thought.

John, I had it for you. Sorry.

[John Hoare]

I’m too busy being annoyed that the German version cut the gas mask transformation scene! One of the most iconic moments in New Who so far!

I’m so glad you’re loving it, anyway, Marleen. It’s fantastic.

[TheLeen]

Only three more episodes :(

[Seb Patrick]

You guys had made my mouth water and? whoa. I am so impressed. I love, love, love it.

Hooray! This is the correct answer!

– Loved the entire dialogue all over the episode.

I don’t know which is Moffat’s bigger strength – his flair for narrative structure, or his dialogue. The former probably just edges it, but the dialogue isn’t far behind (even though he does come up with duff lines). One of my favourite lines in the whole of New Who is still “Well I’ve got a banana, and at a pinch you could put up some shelves”.

– What does the WWII scenario OR zombiefication have to do with the Doctor dancing?

This may be something that got, er, lost in translation, but… “dancing” is basically used as a metaphor for sex.

The happy ending? I thought dropping a bomb on that site would have been a good end to the episode, too. It was odd to see the Doctor so? exuberant. So, it looked like everone was doomed, but everyone?s safe.

Some people don’t like the ending, and it’s true that if EVERY episode ended like it, it would start to feel hollow. But it’s such a necessary – and such a wonderful – moment. This is a broken man, who’s seen his people die before his eyes, and who never quite manages to save everyone – but “just this once, everybody lives!” The final scene, dancing around the TARDIS, is just… oh. I love it so very much.

is there a term for ?Doctor Who fan?

The word is Whovian. Welcome!

Only three more episodes :(

Well, in series one, yeah. But you’ve still got series two and three, as well! And they contain their fair share of eps that are just as good as this story. And in series three there’s a run of three episodes (a two-parter by Paul “Fathers Day” Cornell, followed by a single Moffat ep) that are basically the best run the show has to offer…

[TheLeen]

>> What does the WWII scenario OR zombiefication have to do with the Doctor dancing?

> This may be something that got, er, lost in translation, but? ?dancing? is basically used as a metaphor for sex.

I see. What does the WWII scenario OR zombiefication have to do with the Doctor’s sex?

> The word is Whovian. Welcome!

:D

> Well, in series one, yeah. But you?ve still got series two and three, as well!

Yeah. But see, I don’t own them and I don’t think I’ll get them as cheap as the unloved Tardis DVD box. And, unfortunately, at the same time Pro7 will stop broadcasting Who. Which means I’m about to experience my first Who-hole in time. Sniff.

> a two-parter by Paul ?Fathers Day? Cornell, followed by a single Moffat ep

Ooh! Formidable!

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Yeah. But see, I don?t own them and I don?t think I?ll get them as cheap as the unloved Tardis DVD box. And, unfortunately, at the same time Pro7 will stop broadcasting Who. Which means I?m about to experience my first Who-hole in time. Sniff.

…If you really wanted to watch some more Doctor Who, you could always branch out into the classic series. ‘Cos you might be surprised how awesome it is, and all of us other Whovians here could probably recommend some good stories.

=B

[Seb Patrick]

>What does the WWII scenario OR zombiefication have to do with the Doctor?s sex?

Touche. Well, I suppose, the thing is that up until this point the relationship between the Doctor and Rose has been portrayed as a deeply platonic thing (you know, as it kinda should be). But when Jack comes along, for the first time the question of sexuality is raised. Rose has always thought of him as this weird asexual alien, whereas Jack is dashing and exciting. But, as the Doctor says, that’s a fallacy – just because he’s not at it with his companions all the time, it doesn’t mean he hasn’t ever “danced”.

And I like that it’s something that Moffat chose to confront. I certainly don’t think the Doctor should be travelling round with nubile young things and boffing the hell out of them all the time (notable exceptions – Romana, there was clearly something going on there as at least they were the same species; and there was plenty of unresolved sexual tension between the Third Doctor and Jo, despite the age gap) – but just because he doesn’t shag his friends, it doesn’t mean he can’t ever have romantic relationships (there’s a corner of fandom that has always maintained that the Doctor is asexual. This despite the fact that in his very first ever appearance he’s initially described as “grandfather”). It’s a theme that Moffat develops in his next story, The Girl in the Fireplace, and does so rather well.

[Tanya Jones]

Talons of Weng-Chiang. A Who review book calls it ‘The best Doctor Who serial of the Seventies’, and I’d be hard-pressed to disagree. I’d also recommend The Aztecs (First Doctor), and The Invasion (Second Doctor).

[Andrew]

Also: He dances at the end. He’s able to dance again having exorcised some of his post-Time War demons – because this time, EVERYONE LIVES!

Hence the title…

[Zombie Jim Undead]

I’d say the Aztecs was probably a little bit hardcore for a fresh Whovian.

As far as classic stories are concerned, would probably start with The Caves of Androzani…City of Death….or Genesis of the Daleks.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

By the way, Marleen…I would be happy to send you copies of Series 2.

They’re only DVDs that I recorded off the telly, but they’re good quality.

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

Is this the time I recommend “Pirate Planet”? ‘Cos I wanna. It’s good stuff. (Douglas Adams wrote it, which is pretty much your guarantee of quality.) Hell, so is most of the Key to Time series, but “Pirate Planet” is probably the best. “City of Death” isn’t bad either; also, if you can find a Third Doctor story featuring Roger Delgado’s Master* (like “The Sea Devils” or “Terror of the Autons”), you should probably go for it.

*The Master: an evil Time Lord, sort of the anti-Doctor–Moriarty to the Doctor’s Sherlock Holmes. A damn good villain.

[Dave]

>recommend some good stories

Pyramids Of Mars, City Of Death & The Curse Of Fenric are all great.

>there?s a corner of fandom that has always maintained that the Doctor is asexual. This despite the fact that in his very first ever appearance he?s initially described as ?grandfather?

Apparently in The Five Doctors, Carole Ann Ford refused to call the Doctor, Doctor, because her character, Susan, had only ever refered to him as Grandfather, and she was told by the production team that Susan’s lineage was “in dispute” because it implied the Doctor may have had the sex.

When they were first working on the first scripts for the show, Susan was called Biddy and not related to the Doctor, but it was deemed too racy.

I wonder if the large gay following and asexual hero are connected.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

One of the novels suggests that the timelords reproduce asexually as they are above the whole domestic notion of sex / relationships….which I think suits them and the Doctor, really. The more you humanise him, the more ordinary he becomes.

Think it was the novel “Lungbarrow” that states that Susan isn’t actually his granddaughter.
However, whether the novels are canon is subject to intense, violent and bloody debate.

[Dave]

They were woven on looms, apparently.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DTYQUfO6lg&feature=related

This is pretty stunning in places.

[TheLeen]

> By the way, Marleen?I would be happy to send you copies of Series 2.
> They?re only DVDs that I recorded off the telly, but they?re good quality.

Very appreciated! (And half legal?)

I’ll get the boxed sets one day anyway.

Thanks for all the recommendations. But – I don’t even know how the entire “rebirth” thing works or why the Doctor changes appearance (and personality?) along the way, so I shall wait with that until I’ve seen the children in need or christmas special or whichever it was.

[Dave]

>I don?t even know how the entire ?rebirth? thing works or why the Doctor changes appearance (and personality?) along the way

Fair enough.

>so I shall wait with that until I?ve seen the children in need or christmas special or whichever it was

The 2005 Children In Need episode is on YouTube, I’ll post a link when you’ve gotten to The Parting Of The Ways

[Tanya Jones]

>I?d say the Aztecs was probably a little bit hardcore for a fresh Whovian.

Eh? It’s a well-told story, with not too much padding (a danger with the classic series). Not sure what’s ‘hardcore’ about it, unless you’re talking about it being black and white, or something. If anything, The Caves of Androzani is a bit more abstract than The Aztecs, imo…

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Purely historical, I mean. And quite different from the new series in terms of style and structure.

[Dave]

I hope the new series does (Torchwood acide) get round to a purely historical story eventually.

[ChrisM]

In my own task to check out Old Who, I grabbed City of Death the other day and liked it a lot. That was a nice surprise, as the little Old Who I watched previously I found rather boring. As a little kid, I found it too scary to watch (I think the spooky music had much to do with it.)

I decided to grab another Tom Baker DVD from the library today. “Pyramids of Mars.” I’ll probably watch that one tonight or tomorrow.

[Ben Paddon]

I finished watching Earthshock today. Ruddy brilliant stuff. I need to finish watching The Invasion, then order some more classic Who for my collection. moar pertwee plz

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

teh ub3r-l33t B3n P2dd0n sez:
moar pertwee plz

Your wish is my command!

“The Sea Devils” or “Terror of the Autons”, I’m telling yer, or maaaybe “Mind of Evil” (that one was a bit silly). Those all feature the Master, in his first (and possibly most brilliant) incarnation, played by the incomparable Roger Delgado. Or maybe “The Silurians” or “Inferno”, provided you can get past the rather silly framing device for the meat of the subject (the alternate universe). I for one thought “Carnival of Monsters” was kind of fun, too (but that’s just me), as was “The Green Death” (Jo Grant’s last story, if I’m remembering it right). Or you could always start the way I started with Classic Who, and get thrown headfirst into the story with “Spearhead from Space”.

[Ben Paddon]

I ordered a set of seven Pertwee stories on Amazon at the end of last year, and was then sent an unpleasant email a month later saying that they “couldn’t find” the boxset, and so refunded me my money. To my credit, I did them send them a friendly email that said, “Did you look behind the fridge? If you lose something it’s nearly always there.” They didn’t email me back to say whether they’d looked.

Heigh ho. I guess I’ll order the DVDs individually.

Edit: Interesting Question Number #169: Is there a “good” Colin Baker story that isn’t The Two Doctors? I rather liked Colin Baker’s Doctor – he’s not my favourite, but I don’t think he’s as rubbish as people seem to think, as evidenced by the simply awesome audioplays – and I’d like to see more serials with him in that aren’t, for instance, Timelash. Which I bought for ?6. And sucked.

[John Hoare]

Is there a ?good? Colin Baker story that isn?t The Two Doctors?

Revelation of the Daleks, for one. And I don’t think he’s nearly as bad as people say, either.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Vengeance on Varos is good. And The Mark of the Rani is pretty good too.

> “I for one thought ?Carnival of Monsters? was kind of fun, too (but that?s just me), “

Not just you! One of my favourite Pertwee stories. So very very weird.

Anyone else like Day of the Daleks? I’m probably biased because it was only the second Doctor Who story I ever saw….but I adore it.

But…heck….I like The Five Doctors!

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Speaking of which…I suppose you’ve all seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ8bZgWEoaY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe3e5kmtduc&feature=related

[Arlene Rimmer BSc SSc]

>Anyone else like Day of the Daleks? I?m probably biased because it was only the second Doctor Who story I ever saw?.but I adore it.

Actually, I think that’s a pretty good story as well. Speaking of multi-Doctor stories, “The Three Doctors” isn’t bad either (despite, or maybe partly because of, Omega chewing scenery like a starving man on a loaf of bread).

[Dave]

The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors. The moral of the multi-Doctor stories is:

Patrick Troughton wins.

[Zombie Jim Undead]

Oooh! I hadn’t seen this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmh8xeX6SG0

Fan-bloody-tastic.

[Dave]

Maybe we should let Marleen have her thread back and discuss Doctors One to Eight and Ten in the other Who thread

[John Hoare]

Good idea.

[ChrisM]

I’ll confine my spoilage to the episodes you have watched, Boom Town in particular.

So you liked the resolution? I’m a bit undecided on it myself. There is some logic to it in that the Tardis, being a time machine can do stuff with time, hence being able to regress the Slitheen to an egg/pod/thing.

However, it’s kind of using the Tardis in a way that it’s never been used before, and felt a bit… well.. (I’m not going to use a certain latin phrase, as it’s way overused on the internet, but let’s just say I wasn’t keen on the quick fix resolution.)

However, I liked the fact that the Slitheen woman was portrayed as a much more three dimensional villain, i.e. she’s bad, but not all bad. I.e. she’s not like an Orc or Troll from Lord of the Rings, which is predisposed to be evil. Or a Dalek for that matter. In her case it’s it’s nurture not nature, and of course the bad choices she made in her life. It’s nice that she now has another chance, and in that sense, I agree the resolution works very well.

I’m glad you’re enjoying the programme. And you’re being very self controlled in your watching of episodes. When I get DVDs I tend to munch my way through them in a short period of time, but I sometimes think I’d get more from it if I took it a morsel at a time.

[TheLeen]

> like an Orc or Troll from Lord of the Rings, which is predisposed to be evil.

Yeah, but, they’re not! Well, not the trolls anyway (not sure about LotR orcs). I think it’s very rare for ANYONE to be. If ever. Or something. “Dalek” covered that nicely…

> It?s nice that she now has another chance, and in that sense, I agree the resolution works very well.

All the time I’d been thinking there were only two possible ways for the episode to end – Blon to Perximorxivilaphrogus or Blon to escape. It was just nice to see something I hadn’t thought of as a resolution that worked for the episode. Although I agree that it was something of a deus ex machina. But hey, it’s Who… I’m just glad that it wasn’t the sonic screwdriver that did it!

> I?m glad you?re enjoying the programme. And you?re being very self controlled in your watching of episodes. When I get DVDs I tend to munch my way through them in a short period of time, but I sometimes think I?d get more from it if I took it a morsel at a time.

I’m not a patient person. It’s really hard. *g*

[TheLeen]

Episode 1×10 – Boom Town

Unfortunately, Pentecost weekend means no Doctor Who weekend.
But I really didn’t feel like I could wait so long, so, even though it’s only Saturday, I watched “Boom Town” on DVD. I’ll still watch the German version next week to see if crucial scenes have been cut, and to see whether they got the translation of “steak and chips” right.

“Boom Town” was not in a good position to start with. “Boom Town” takes place immediately after the Moffat episodes, immediately before the episode “Bad Wolf”, before the series finale and what people call a big buttfucking surprise. Secondly, I knew that “Boom Town” was going to about Slitheen Margaret/Blon, so, hm, maybe like part three of “Aliens of London”, my least favourite episode so far.

Surprisingly, I found myself enjoying “Boom Town”, and enjoying it quite a bit! Maybe because I watched it in English first. Yeah, that would’ve helped. But anyway, I thought the episode was nowhere nearly as unexciting as “Aliens of London” (of course, nowhere near “Dalek” either).

What we liked

– Less farting
– Less extreme Tardis & Slitheen light effects
– References to earlier episodes, not only “Aliens of London”/”World War Three” but also “The Unquiet Dead”, and Mickeyricky
– The humour (Margaret running away was a great scene)
– Tardis in front of the sculpture in Cardiff looked great
– The resolution
– The “Bad Wolf” thing becomes frighteningly tense
– OMG, “Next week on Who”. It was really, really, really really hard to turn it off and not immediately watch the next episode. Attn Andrew: Rawr!

What we didn’t like

– Can’t think of anything right now, really.
– Okay, the surfboard thing was a bit cheesy, but well, in a Doctor Who way, so it’s an okay kind of cheesy.

Summary

We both think it was an average Who episode. Watching it felt like eating starters. You’re really looking forward to the main course, but it gets your juices flowing (I’m talking appetite here).

[Andrew]

> Attn Andrew: Rawr!

*swoon*

[Andrew]

> Although I agree that it was something of a deus ex machina.

Hold me back. Hold me back!

[ChrisM]

Something strange happening to the post order there. I think a time distortion has entered this very thread. How ironic.

Never mind.

like an Orc or Troll from Lord of the Rings, which is predisposed to be evil.

Yeah, but, they?re not! Well, not the trolls anyway (not sure about LotR orcs). I think it?s very rare for ANYONE to be. If ever. Or something. ?Dalek? covered that nicely?

Most LotR ‘evil creatures’ come across as completely evil in nature, although they originate from ‘good’ creatures. (Orcs from Elves, Trolls, possibly from Ents… although I don’t buy that one since one is made from stone the other wood… sort of.)

Don’t get me wrong I love LotR. The other ‘free’ races are certainly 3 dimensional (take Boromir for example. Does bad things, but repents.)

Anyway back to Who…

?Dalek? covered that nicely

Actually you’re right there, although it was the influx of human Rose’s human DNA which caused it. The Daleks themselves have pretty much engineered themselves to be single-minded and evil, hence the Dalek from that episode not being able to cope with having to deal with a conscience.

That’s ok, I don’t mind the 1 dimensional “Whuaha ha” villains. They both work, as did the more meaty (oo-er) Slitheen lady.

All the time I?d been thinking there were only two possible ways for the episode to end – Blon to Perximorxivilaphrogus or Blon to escape. It was just nice to see something I hadn?t thought of as a resolution that worked for the episode.

Good point there. And impressive that you remember the name of the alien world.

I?m not a patient person. It?s really hard. *g*

Stick at it trooper. ;)

I look forward to your review of the next one.

[John Hoare]

Something strange happening to the post order there. I think a time distortion has entered this very thread. How ironic.

Sorry, it’s the old editing bug – if people edit their posts, then the order fucks up if there are posts below it. To fix it, I need to upgrade the system to the next version – a major job – so I may disable comment editing for bit until I get a chance to do it…

[TheLeen]

> Good point there. And impressive that you remember the name of the alien world.

I made it up. It’s actually Rexicoricophallivatorius. But only according to the DVD subtitles. Other written media use the spelling Raxacoricofallapatorius. But I won’t be able to spell any of those next week. Uhm.

[Andrew]

> so I may disable comment editing for bit until I get a chance to do it?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[TheLeen]

>> Although I agree that it was something of a deus ex machina.

> Hold me back. Hold me back!

Yes, okay. What?

[Andrew]

> Yes, okay. What?

Bah, can someone who knows where it is link to the appropriate comments exchange?

[John Hoare]

http://www.ganymede.tv/atspeed/2008/03/carry-on-carry-on-london#comment-125567

[TheLeen]

OMG that thing is packed with spoilers. But I realise now this is a touchy subject. *g*

[Jonathan Capps]

Marleen is 100% correct about Boom Town. Everyone with a different opinion should TAKE NOTE. And then kill themselves.

[Andrew]

> OMG that thing is packed with spoilers.

Oh fuck! Sorry!

> Marleen is 100% correct about Boom Town.

About it being good (I agree)? Or about the ending (disagree, except in an almost absolutely literal ex machina way)?

[ChrisM]

> Yes, okay. What?

Bah, can someone who knows where it is link to the appropriate comments exchange?

Heh, that’s why I refused to say that ‘latin term’ (see above.) That and I see it on the internet so often when it’s not applicable.

Ironically the way Marleen used the term in Boom town actually is applicable. At least I’m pretty sure it is, since the resolution really did come out of nowhere this time. The heart of the Tardis was opened and the lady turned into an egg. The Slitheen woman I mean, not Marleen. Boom boom!

Not saying that to kick off another heated debate though, noone shoot me. ;)

[Jonathan Capps]

> About it being good (I agree)? Or about the ending (disagree, except in an almost absolutely literal ex machina way)?

Well, correct about the quality of the episode.

[Author]

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