Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Moonlight]

I’m going to self-immolate. It’s a clever message on how dogshit this comment was.

[Warbodog]

The clever thing about Timewave was how it was (at least at first) ambiguously deliberately crap, like they’d risk tanking the series for a meta joke not everyone would get. Unfortunately, this didn’t seem to be the case.

[Moonlight]

Woke is when I go to work at the wine store and instead start building a rocketship to go to the Gay Moon.

[Rushy]

I’m still not entirely convinced that the hatred of Timewave isn’t made up as some sort of practical joke. I had no idea anyone had much negative to say about it until seeing this forum lol. 

Entangled though, fuck me

[Frank Smeghammer]

I’m still not entirely convinced that the hatred of Timewave isn’t made up as some sort of practical joke. I had no idea anyone had much negative to say about it until seeing this forum lol. 
Entangled though, fuck me

Timewave hatred is no joke. There is absolutely nothing funny about Timewave, and thats the problem

[Ben Saunders]

I’m still not entirely convinced that the hatred of Timewave isn’t made up as some sort of practical joke.

It’s one of the few things I’ve ever seen that has left me genuinely annoyed to have watched it, like it was an actively bad time and I could have done anything else with my precious minutes. The other things were The Timeless Children, The Reality War, The Last Jedi and Danganronpa V3. Anything else I’ve been like well that sucked but at least it was an experience. Timewave just made me feel violated.

[tombow]

Kill Crazy is apparently selling some AI assisted art of David Attenborough he made

[Ben Saunders]

That bonk on the head really did a number on him

[Flap Jack]

I would never sell AI-generated art of David Attenborough, but Jake Wood.

[Warbodog]

Kill Crazy is apparently selling some AI assisted art of David Attenborough he made

The phrasing, the image following, the contemplating of the reality, this post cracked me up for a good few minutes. Thank you for sharing, tombow.

[Podey]

I was reading his caption for that painting on instagram. He said he didn’t use AI, he used pre-existing images (made by AI….) which he made into a collage and then painted over. And apparently it sold for £2,000.

[Rushy]

I rewatched Give & Take with my brother. My opinions on it haven’t changed much (it’s solid, and remarkably coherent for a Dave episode).

What stood out to me this time was this wonderfully gleeful line delivery from Chris, where he briefly tapped back into his younger Rimmer performance. 

[Rushy]

It reminded me of the scene in Parallel Universe where he reveals Lister’s pregnant. 

[Podey]

[Dave]

[Ben Saunders]

I have a ton of these

[Ben Saunders]

[Dave]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The one where Kryten is Ray Winston 

[Dave]

Here’s a mundane observation that struck me tonight while watching Dimension Jump: if Kryten was manufactured a couple of hundred years after Rimmer & Lister’s era, how is Ace Rimmer able to recognise his make and model given that he should be from the same era as Rimmer?

[Spaceworm Jim]

Not going to derail, but I saw Last Jedi again recently and really enjoyed it. I disagree with nearly all the criticism I’ve seen of it online.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Here’s a mundane observation that struck me tonight while watching Dimension Jump: if Kryten was manufactured a couple of hundred years after Rimmer & Lister’s era, how is Ace Rimmer able to recognise his make and model given that he should be from the same era as Rimmer?

Ace Rimmer had an interaction with someone that went on to start up the Kryten line two hundred years early 

Rimmer’s failures in his timeline are felt far and wide. 

[Warbodog]

Here’s a mundane observation that struck me tonight while watching Dimension Jump: if Kryten was manufactured a couple of hundred years after Rimmer & Lister’s era, how is Ace Rimmer able to recognise his make and model given that he should be from the same era as Rimmer?

Maybe they hadn’t firmly settled on it at the time.
In the script book, Dimension Jump has a date caption reading something like 2162, generally in line with the novels and Ouroboros which feels standard. DNA, written later, consciously updates them to 23rd century in two lines of dialogue, maybe just because the number sounded better. Terrorform gives Kryten’s 2340 date (24th century) on screen. Then Doug clarifies that Kryten is indeed from their relative future in Back in the Red. Unless I’ve missed any.

[Ben Saunders]

[Rushy]

Not going to derail, but I saw Last Jedi again recently and really enjoyed it. I disagree with nearly all the criticism I’ve seen of it online.

I’m not keen.

I feel like the Jedi concept can be boiled down to “training to use the Force for charity”, and Luke suggesting the Jedi need to be replaced is redundant. 

Any new organisation using the Force to help others would just be revamped Jedi. So why not just reform? Why the theatrics?

I also felt it’s not in Luke’s character to cast any blame for his failings on the Order, Obi-Wan etc. And the film in general did far too little to make his storyline plausible. 

Holdo being an objectively terrible leader completely undercuts Poe’s arc of becoming more responsible, because he is far more responsible than Holdo to begin with. 

I found the revelation of Rey’s heritage distasteful. Not that I wanted her to be related to anyone, but I disliked that it had to be some sort of revelation at all. Watching Episode 7, I never once had any interest in her parents. She was a random person who got caught up in this. It was obvious, I didn’t need that fact trumpeted to celebrate its “originality”. 

The casino subplot was alright if a little corny.

[Ben Saunders]

I dropped out when Leia flew through space freehand

[Rushy]

Just wanted to add that I realise Kylo Ren was trying to manipulate Rey about her parents, but the dialogue is clearly aiming for a metafictional angle about her “belonging in this story” and WHO her parents are as opposed to why they didn’t come back, which would be the more natural question. 

I got the sense that the film is trying very hard – too hard – to impress, and is rather insecure about being seen as something better than “conventional” Star Wars. 

[Flap Jack]

Not going to derail, but

“Not going to derail”… ? Bringing up The Last Jedi unprompted in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with Star Wars can only have 2 possible outcomes – either the thread is derailed, or everyone ignores you. So why would you do it? WHY. Find an old thread that your Star Wars opinions would be relevant to or start a new one for the love of god.

[Ben Saunders]

I did get the feeling that they were trying very hard to appear clever, and the whole thing felt very smug, like the very worst impulses of Moffat Who, you can just feel the smarm dripping off the screen. But Moffat wrote better dialogue, and was funnier.

I ended up enjoying IX more because I was checked out by that point and just watched it like it was a Spiderman or something. But if you actually still cared about the franchise by that point it was probably like having your balls jammed into a blender.

[Ben Saunders]

[Ben Saunders]

when you right-click an image, “open” is directly below “set as desktop background”

[Rushy]

So why would you do it? WHY. 

I did get the feeling that they were trying very hard to appear clever, and the whole thing felt very smug, like the very worst impulses of Moffat Who, you can just feel the smarm dripping off the screen. But Moffat wrote better dialogue, and was funnier.
I ended up enjoying IX more because I was checked out by that point and just watched it like it was a Spiderman or something.

I didn’t want to say this out of concern for upsetting any die-hard Moffat fans here, but this was my feeling as well. 

As for IX, the tone was set for me when Palpatine dragged a fleet of ships out from underneath Exegol. When I first saw it in theaters, I assumed he was literally bringing the old Imperial ships back from some Sith underworld. I thought the idea of IX was that it was the grand finale of Star Wars and they were free to go completely bonkers with it. I had a good time, and still do when I rewatch it with that mindset. 

[Rushy]

On a sidenote, Ben, don’t think I didn’t see that Lego Star Wars III icon there

[Dave]

I thought The Last Jedi was ok on its own terms and has some fun moments, but as the middle movie in a trilogy and the eighth in a nine-film sequence, it was probably not the best place to start trying to turn multiple Star Wars storytelling conventions on their head and push the whole thing in a different direction. 

[Rushy]

it was probably not the best place to start trying to turn multiple Star Wars storytelling conventions on their head and push the whole thing in a different direction. 

only to undo all that anyway and end it with “actually, the Jedi were right all along” / “actually, it is just the Empire vs the Rebels again”

So what were we doing here, exactly?

[Warbodog]

If you weren’t that bothered about Star Wars, The Last Jedi was just a throwaway couple of hours, but the omnipresent online hate-derailing lasted for ages and seemed ridiculously over the top for a Lego film.

I’m aware I’m saying this on the Series VIII & Timewave superfan forum, but those are what you sign up for.

[Podey]

To be fair, the thread’s title isn’t “Mundane observation dome (about Red Dwarf)”

[Jenuall]

The Last Jedi is comfortably the second best Star Wars film for me – Empire being the obvious champ. The backlash it got was so bizarre.

But then as Warbo points out, I’ve never been that much of a Star Wars person so the fact I never held the series in such high regard generally probably helps me appreciate it rather than be upset by it. (although I fundamentally don’t agree that there’s anything to be upset about in the first place!)

[tombow]

I was just angry at what it missed out. He’s already dark side when Luke looks into his mind, so when and why did he turn? Where were the other students we heard about? How did Snoke actually get political power and befriend Ben? Like what was he, a senator or what?  However thanks to Reddit I know only cringe nerds were asking these questions.

[Ben Saunders]

So what were we doing here, exactly?

A question the writers of the sequel trilogy must have asked themselves, but never managed to answer

I do find it funny that they released the data of who watched what on May 4th on Disney+, and none of the sequel movies even cracked the top 10. Episode I and Episode IV topped the list but they would anyway because they’re both the “first” movie(s).

>I didn’t want to say this out of concern for upsetting any die-hard Moffat fans here, but this was my feeling as well.

I am a die-hard Moffat fan, I think he mostly hits but when he misses he makes me want to hit myself. Rian Johnson could never hope to write something in the same ballpark as “something borrowed, something blue.”

[International Debris]

Good Lord can we take the flimsy space fantasy franchise chat to a dedicated thread, I’m here to talk about good fiction like Pete Part 2 and Timewave.

[Ben Saunders]

This is a lovely shot. XI/XII have some quite nice space/”model” shots.

[Technopeasant]

I liked it when Palpatine returned and said smeg.

[Dave]

I liked it when Palpatine returned and said smeg.

Somehow, Holly had done it.

[Jenuall]

So many Bothans.

In just over seven months, every one of them would be dead. 

[Podey]

I’ve actually been working on a Star Wars thing recently and one interesting tidbit (as it was posted earlier in the thread), artists working on official projects are no longer allowed to depict Leia in her “slave” attire as per Carrie Fisher’s estate.

[Rushy]

 artists working on official projects are no longer allowed to depict Leia in her “slave” attire as per Carrie Fisher’s estate.

I always liked her response to the “how can I explain this outfit to my child” question

“Tell them I kill the slug for making me wear this stupid thing”

(I wonder why the outfit requires an explanation though, was anyone confused by it as a child?)

[Ben Saunders]

Carrie Fisher was only put into that costume because she complained to George Lucas that her outfits were “far too modest and shapeless, famously joking that you couldn’t even tell she was a woman”. So he was like alright bet. Plus she then kills Jabba and frees herself. I actually thought claiming that you weren’t allowed to depict her in that outfit was one of those things right-wing grifters made up, like how you can’t call Boba Fett’s Starship “Slave I” anymore.

[Ben Saunders]

was anyone confused by it as a child?

I was too young to even notice Carrie Fisher was hot as a child, it was only many years later that I suddenly realised. I didn’t think twice about the metal bikini or anything until I was a teenager.

[Rushy]

I think I sort of grasped that it was meant to embarrass her, but in the sense that she’s a respected politician/rebel leader forced to wear a ridiculous “dancer outfit”.

Sort of like if Margaret Thatcher had to go around wearing a My Little Pony costume. 

[Author]

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