Mundane observation dome

[Warbodog]

Do you have any miscellaneous insights on the series that may be worth contemplating for a few seconds before moving on with our lives? Here are some of mine.

1. The four regulars have names that can work any way around, though this would have been more obvious if David Ross had stayed and wouldn’t work if Chris Barrie used his real name.

2. The series’ lax attitude to continuity extends to the setting. Outside of Holly’s distress calls, I don’t think three million years is mentioned all that much after series I and before VI (not sure about later years). Instead, we get the extremely fudged “dead for centuries” and “travelling for thousands of years” – not actual retcons, but suggesting a more conventional setting for casual viewers tuning in and the sort of stories they’re telling. It’s only millions when they need it to be.

3. 200 years of stasis between series V and VI means that the earlier series took place in their equivalent of the early 19th century by comparison (e.g. Blackadder the Third). Since they didn’t run into a long-lived Camille or one of her great-great-etc grandchildren, it didn’t come up.

4. Although Lister is routinely slagged off in the series, he’s spared the level of seemingly authoritative character assassination that Rimmer gets, because the audience is aligned with Lister’s viewpoint most of the time. For example, we see Kochanski Camille belittling Rimmer’s interests, but we don’t get the equivalent of Hologram Camille reacting to Lister’s pickup lines, we’re left to form our own opinions on those. This flimsy point has not been considered much beyond this single example.

5. Cat’s costumes are overwhelmingly referenced more than anyone else’s in the series, but the least discussed by fans.

6. Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibbley were so seemingly ubiquitous in canon and tie-in merchandise through the 90s (Smegazine strips, T-shirts) that they still feel overused today, even though it’s been over 20 years since they appeared. Maybe they’re allowed back after all.

7. Only series III & V and maybe XI & XII (not as familiar with those) don’t have any sense of an arc whatsoever (though IV’s minor Kryten disobedience arc was already fucked up by episode shuffling). Series III is just about the only series where no episode directly references any previous episode, but it still has the Backwards scrolling text and general references to Rimmer having died and stuff.

8. One of the series’ most famous and quoted scenes – everybody’s dead, Dave – is a straight-up 2001: A Space Odyssey homage and would have been received that way at the time, but doesn’t work like that for most people coming to the episode later on or new viewers who are young or don’t watch old films.

9. Sometimes dismissed as lightweight and gimmicky today, Backwards was designed as an innovative interactive experience to reward extracurricular effort. As well as inviting fans to work out the backwards events and filming logistics, Arthur Smith’s eugolonom is teasingly long and “you scoundrels” is clearly a cleaned-up translation gag even before you’ve heard it. Unfortunately, by the time technology caught up with the intent and the ability to reverse media files properly on home computers became commonplace, Backwards Forwards came out and everyone just cheated with the walkthrough.

Imagine the quality of the musings I left out!

Topic

[Dave]

Or maybe they were just briefly reminiscing about that time they visited Justice World, who can tell.

[Moonlight]

This really does make XI The Derelict Show.

[Technopeasant]

Even in III a couple of the stories rely on external catalysts rather than internal – the Polymorph breaks in, and Hudzen turns up.

By that criteria the mail pod in Better Than Life should also count.

[Moonlight]

I’m going to argue that Mechocracy should also count because the plot is kicked off by an unseen derelict broadcasting a phony emergency beacon.

[gerrydelasel]

The image of Rimmer on My Incredible Career is obvious a frame from Me2. They airbrushed out the hologram H but, curiously, also went to the trouble to airbrush out the badges on his collar?

[Rushy]

The badges might’ve referred to something that could potentially sue the BBC, and they only found out after Me2

[gerrydelasel]

They appear to be generic school prefect badges, but who knows

[Dave]

They look a bit like Blue Peter badges because of the shield shape, but I don’t think they are.

[Ben Saunders]

They look a bit daft, which I imagine is why they removed them.

[Flap Jack]

If you zoom in enough, the badges say “Chicken McNugget” and “Gareth Gwenlan fucks kids” respectively, so legal insisted they be scrubbed out.

[Jenuall]

If the person doing the airbrushing was anything like me they would have removed them for being unevenly attached. I can’t unsee that now!

[Technopeasant]

If you zoom in enough, the badges say “Chicken McNugget” and “Gareth Gwenlan fucks kids” respectively, so legal insisted they be scrubbed out.

Gareth Gwenlan fucks Chicken McNuggets

[Podey]

There’s a big stand with 20-30 signed copies of Titan at Birmingham FP but I was sad to note that they (or at least the one I looked at) didn’t have the thing about Rob signing it from one universe to the side, just Andrew’s. 

[Dave]

There’s a big stand with 20-30 signed copies of Titan at Birmingham FP but I was sad to note that they (or at least the one I looked at) didn’t have the thing about Rob signing it from one universe to the side, just Andrew’s. 

The Rob ones were the specially produced “signed” editions. Andrew would have just signed regular copies when he was at FP.

[gerrydelasel]

I was googling cockney rhyming slang when

[Nick R]

Avatar checks out.

[Warbodog]

Good to know. Just one of those things that sounded right so I didn’t think about it.

[Warbodog]

Any time my daughter catches me looking at G&T, she asks to watch Talkie Toaster (two blocky White Hole clips on YouTube). So I’ve been watching those deliberately repetitive scenes repeatedly over the summer and still enjoying them. Red Dwarf’s often at its best when the characters are winding each other up and this is a concentrated dose.

– The line deliveries are rehearsed to perfection (“OR MUFFINS!”), with the exception of Bobby who isn’t at his best, especially his awkward emphasis of “*any* member of the crew.” It reminds me of his bits to camera in Smeg Ups etc. But he gets more natural as Kryten gets more wound up.

– Craig does slip up on “howdly,” but it’s just Lister doing that.

– Using a shaky freeze frame over “NO I WOULD NOT LIKE A CRUMPET” has always seemed a bit odd. I guess they didn’t get the shot they wanted there, or maybe someone’s arm got in shot or something.

– The “bahhh!” star wipe looks crap and like a Cillit Bang advert or something.

And before I forget, just one question:

[Unrumble]

Using a shaky freeze frame over “NO I WOULD NOT LIKE A CRUMPET” has always seemed a bit odd. I guess they didn’t get the shot they wanted there, or maybe someone’s arm got in shot or something.

Strike a light, I’d never noticed that.

[Moonlight]

The “bahhh!” star wipe looks crap and like a Cillit Bang advert or something.

[Moonlight]

Thinking about how much they exaggerate the Duane Dibbley features in Emohawk compared to the original appearance.

[Technopeasant]

Someone stole the original teeth.

(Probably not)

[Moonlight]

I hear Chris took them home to wear around the house.

[Dave]

Everything in Emohawk is an exaggerated version of itself. Duane, Ace, the Polymorph, GELFs. We’re lucky they didn’t chuck in a Talkie Toaster who does nothing but shout the word “toast”.

[Podey]

I wonder, would Emohawk be as well regarded if the exact same episode existed outside of the bubble? Or was that the *one* time the callbacks were justified, in fans eyes, compared to what came later?

[Flap Jack]

I wonder, would Emohawk be as well regarded if the exact same episode existed outside of the bubble? Or was that the *one* time the callbacks were justified, in fans eyes, compared to what came later?

I know 2 things to be true:

1 – Emohawk is genuinely well regarded by some/many fans.

2 – Technically an episode can have anything other than the minimum amount of regard and still be hypothetically less well regarded.

And yet, this question still hit me like “Would Timewave be as beloved if it didn’t have Rimmer’s inner critic?”.

[Ben Saunders]

It’s pretty funny when Duane pops his head up from under that counter, actually. And it’s pretty funny when Ace recommends killing him. It’s not phenomenal stuff on the level of Holoship or The Inquisitor, but it’s fun. In isolation, I’ve never had any problem with them bringing those two back for Emohawk. I don’t mind bringing back Ace for Stoke either, because it gives Rimmer/Chris Barrie a nice sendoff. Once they do the Dibley family bit in BitR though, then it’s a bit fuck off.

Duane being exaggerated a bit also works for Emohawk specifically, and for the reveal sight gag. Remember it’s not actually Ace and Duane who have come back, it’s still Cat and Rimmer, they’ve just been turned into their conceptions of those characters by a weird alien space lizard thing.

[Unrumble]

Remember it’s not actually Ace and Duane who have come back, it’s still Cat and Rimmer, they’ve just been turned into their conceptions of those characters by a weird alien space lizard thing.

And of course, the age old question…

[Ben Saunders]

Why not? It can shapeshift, which requires some form of altering the state of matter, so it can alter the state of the matter composing/surrounding its subjects. Also, either that happens in Polymorph too, or Cat takes the time to intentionally dirty himself up and ruin his own hair and clothes in a few minutes, and Lister does the same. Where would Cat go to acquire such raggy clothes? Rimmer could at least just ask Holly to make him shit.

[Dave]

Apparently a side-effect of being emotionally sucked by a Polymorph is that it also morphs you a little bit while it’s doing it.

Arguably Emohawk could have been funnier if Rimmer and Cat were acting like Ace and Duane without any physical changes.

[Ben Saunders]

Arguably Emohawk could have been funnier if Rimmer and Cat were acting like Ace and Duane without any physical changes.

I think the biggest laugh they get out of it is Cat being like “what the hell has it turned me into”, then the reveal that it’s turned him into Duane. You don’t really get that big moment if he just sort of acts like him

[Dave]

Yeah true. And you can’t really be Duane without the teeth.

(Maybe that goes for Ace without the hair too.)

[Unrumble]

Why not? It can shapeshift, which requires some form of altering the state of matter, so it can alter the state of the matter composing/surrounding its subjects.

Feels like a stretch, but hey, it’s not like it’s real science.

Also, either that happens in Polymorph too, or Cat takes the time to intentionally dirty himself up and ruin his own hair and clothes in a few minutes, and Lister does the same. Where would Cat go to acquire such raggy clothes? Rimmer could at least just ask Holly to make him shit.

I always took it that the Cat now felt so worthless, he needed to scruff himself up so as not to give off any semblance of vanity or pride in his appearance. On a ship that had housed over a thousand people (plus the evolved cat race) I’d assume it’d be relatively easy to find some knackered old clothes. Never occurred to me that he’d simply changed as a direct result of the polymorph attack.

[Unrumble]

I think the biggest laugh they get out of it is Cat being like “what the hell has it turned me into”, then the reveal that it’s turned him into Duane. You don’t really get that big moment if he just sort of acts like him

Sure, that’s how they get the laugh, doesn’t mean I have to think it really makes sense in-universe. Ultimately, the laugh is what’s important, the nit-picking over whether it makes sense is just additional fun for me.

[Warbodog]

I wonder, would Emohawk be as well regarded if the exact same episode existed outside of the bubble?

It’s already one of the less well regarded bubble episode among snobs (e.g. some of us lot). I think it’s a sign that the bubble is ready to burst. GELF village is still great though.

[Dave]

First half of the episode is great I think. Then it turns into a bit of a greatest hits.

[Warbodog]

smegadrive /frame/1266206/VGhlIG9ubHkgYWR2YW50YWdlLCBhcyBmYXIgYXMgSSBjYW4gc2VlLCBpcyB0aGUgd2lmZSBjYW4gY2hhbmdlIGJvdGggdGhlaXIgbmFwcGllcyBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aW1lIQ../26/normal/bottom/2]

A newborn baby doesn’t have the same metabolism as an 83-year-old man. Is she going to let the baby stew in its stinky shit just so they can sync up, hoping dad finally has a bowel movement today?

[Warbodog]

Let’s try that again.

[Moonlight]

I’m a bit late but I am a big fan of like two thirds of Emohawk. Not that the last third is bad or anything, but I feel like the writing is really sharp in all the cockpit scenes. But that also might be partly because I hadn’t rewatched it in eons unlike most of the other VI episodes and so it was better than I remember it being.

[Flap Jack]

I’m a bit late but I am a big fan of like two thirds of Emohawk. Not that the last third is bad or anything, but I feel like the writing is really sharp in all the cockpit scenes. But that also might be partly because I hadn’t rewatched it in eons unlike most of the other VI episodes and so it was better than I remember it being.

It’s interesting because I had kind of the opposite experience. I remembered the episode fondly, and although I didn’t think it was bad on a rewatch, not only did it become clearer how weak the last third was as just a sequence of directionless fanservice, I found the early cockpit material to be pretty weak as well. Lots of diminished returns of earlier gags, lots of overexplaining:

https://www.ganymede.tv/forums/topic/refresh-for-the-memory-series-vi-byte-2/#post-278875

I am also duty bound to remind everyone that Emohawk was the episode with the shite looking spinning police disc.

I do still enjoy the episode, but I rated it as the second worst bubble episode, and every post bubble series bar VIII has multiple better episodes than it.

[Podey]

I’ve always been fond of it because I think I quoted “change of plan… LEEEGGGGGG IIIITTTTTTTT!!!!” more than anything from any other episode as a kid.

[Dave]

I am also duty bound to remind everyone that Emohawk was the episode with the shite looking spinning police disc.

Which is a shame because I think the model itself looks pretty great.

[Moonlight]

I found the early cockpit material to be pretty weak as well. Lots of diminished returns of earlier gags, lots of overexplaining:

This sort of thing is why I say I may have just enjoyed it extra because I hadn’t watched it for so long and it felt fresher than revisiting the other episodes.

[Asclepius]

I wonder, would Emohawk be as well regarded if the exact same episode existed outside of the bubble? Or was that the *one* time the callbacks were justified, in fans eyes, compared to what came later?

It’s ‘Skipper’, isn”t it? But many years earlier. The humour is entirely provided by the call-backs. And the fact that Lister is going to have non-consensual sex with a gorilla/giant rat (delete as appropriate).

[Moonlight]

I just really like the GELF handshake.

It’s ‘Skipper’, isn”t it? But many years earlier. The humour is entirely provided by the call-backs. 

I don’t think this is an accurate description of either episode. Unless you’re being deliberately hyperbolic.

[Dave]

DNA and Emohawk both end with two of the characters having been significantly altered and no explicit return to the status quo, only for things to be back to normal in the next episode with no continuation or explanation of what happened in between. 

Obviously both episodes imply how the situation can be resolved, but I do think it makes them slightly unsatisfying endings, like they don’t play by sitcom rules.

Cliffhangers or changes to the status quo are fine when they get picked up or addressed in the next episode, and Red Dwarf has done this several times. But just not bothering to reset the status quo properly feels a bit off to me.

[International Debris]

Also, either that happens in Polymorph too, or Cat takes the time to intentionally dirty himself up and ruin his own hair and clothes in a few minutes, and Lister does the same. Where would Cat go to acquire such raggy clothes? Rimmer could at least just ask Holly to make him shit.

Given that he stays in that outfit and even describes needing to make a conscious effort to get out of it after his vanity has been restored, I don’t think this is the case.

I don’t like the three sequels stuff in Emohawk. Too much of it is fanservice and I tend to dislike that. It doesn’t really offer anything new, which was true of occasional moments of earlier VI episodes, but reaches a peak here. It also feels a little unearned given that the oldest of the returning characters is only from three years ago.

Skipper, at least, does a lot more in its second half, although the initial universe to the Holly / Hollister one is a stinker of a scene. The final one, while still trading on nostalgia with the sets and costumes, feels more earned as a possible last ever episode of what is, by that point, a legacy show, and offers some thematic interest to do something with the setting. 

[gerrydelasel]

I like Emohawk, it only bothers me that it steals Rimmer’s snidiness and Cat’s vanity for no particular reason. They’re not in a heightened state like in Polymorpth. It could have picked any random emotion but, surprise, surprise, it picks those. Just a bit lazy.

Rimmer could at least just ask Holly to make him shit.

[Ben Saunders]

You could argue that Rimmer’s snideness and Cat’s vanity are always at a heightened state

[gerrydelasel]

I could, but I wouldn’t, because it’s a poor argument.

[Author]

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