Home Forums Ganymede & Titan Forum Prelude To Nanarchy is now definitely non-canon, right?

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  • #3372
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Because, y’know, Cat was able to get the then-infant Joy Squid back to Red Dwarf where she promptly escaped. Starbug as seen in VI and VII appears to be low on supplies including water – there’d be nowhere for her to escape to.

    Pity really – I like PtN, mini Kryten-headed nanos notwithstanding.

    #97005
    peas_and_corn
    Participant

    Maybe squid likes foamy margaritas

    #97007
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    It was about the size of a betta, it could have lived in a plastic cup of water and then grown when it escaped to G deck.

    #97008
    Somebody
    Participant

    Where did it get the food to grow THAT big, though – whether in a plastic cup or the Big Water Tank? And if it was taken back to the ‘Dwarf pre-VI, then what about the nanobot thing…

    Basically, it doesn’t make sense – accept it or reject it, but nitpicking it is like picking on a one-legged man at an arse-kicking convention.

    #97009
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    well, basically yeah it is a magic squid, innit?

    #97099
    Tarka Dal
    Participant

    > Because, y?know, Cat was able to get the then-infant Joy Squid back to Red Dwarf where she promptly escaped. Starbug as seen in VI and VII appears to be low on supplies including water – there?d be nowhere for her to escape to.

    Well maybe he left it on RD before Dwarf went missing?

    Alternatively, let’s not forget the end of BTL “We’re still in the game”. We never actually saw them emerge. Everything from Thanks for the Memory onwards has been artificial whilst the real Lister, Cat and Rimmer are still withering away with spikes in their frontal lobes.

    #97111
    Ridley
    Participant

    >Apart from all the time they spent sniffing around the obviously leaking Esperanto.

    Great! And with Starbug having gone through that dimensional-cargo bay-expanding thing, plenty of places to hide her.

    +

    It was about the size of a betta, it could have lived in a plastic cup of water and then grown when it escaped to G deck.

    Seems to be the best answer. Unless Cat picked it up when they were near the moon looking for (planetoid) Red Dwarf.

    #97113
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    >Seems to be the best answer. Unless Cat picked it up when they were near the moon looking for (planetoid) Red Dwarf.

    Okay, you know what? I’m just going to go have a lie down, okay? ;)

    #97116
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    It was about the size of a betta, it could have lived in a plastic cup of water and then grown when it escaped to G deck.

    Obviously we’re talking about the biology of an entirely fictional alien squid here, but that means it would have remained betta-sized for two- or three-hundred years, then, once they were back aboard Red Dwarf, grew to an immense size over a period of nine years. It also raises the question: How would it have gotten to G-Deck after Starbug crash-landed in Red Dwarf’s cargo bay at the start of VIII?

    Egads. I feel like an OG forum member.

    #97129
    Ridley
    Participant

    Maybe it grows in relation to the body of water it’s in… or Starbug wasn’t that much down on water and the crew didn’t check beyond twiddling the taps… or both.

    And I’d assume the (nano) crew would have had to clear up the wreckage at some point since it’s mostly the cockpit that crashlanded in the cargo bay as the rest got left in the corridors.

    #97183
    Carlito
    Participant

    My theory is that we’re all simply assuming he picked it up at the same time they met the despair squid, whereas I say they must have been to many ocean planets during the 9 years prior to BtE and he probably picked it up then.

    #97190
    ChrisM
    Participant

    As I said in another thread, it’s the same species as teh despair squid! Since the despair squid evolved on that moon*, it seems unlikely the same species would evolve elsewhere. I suppose someone might have picked one up and dumped it on another moon, but I don’t really buy that.

    *Everything on the ocean moon in Back to Reality evolved at an accelerated rate as a scientific experiment.

    #97214
    Carlito
    Participant

    > I suppose someone might have picked one up and dumped it on another moon, but I don?t really buy that.

    Why not? The Dwarfers did exactly that.

    The scientific experiment may not have been limited to just one moon, or they may have been back there in the interim. And if the despair squid was the result of evolution, accelerated or not, all the other squids on all the other planets have had 3 million years in their own right to evolve too.

    #97215
    Mnoooah
    Participant

    *Raises hand*

    Isn’t the concept of Cannon in Red Dwarf ITSELF Non-Cannonical?

    #97216
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >And if the despair squid was the result of evolution, accelerated or not, all the other squids on all the other planets have had 3 million years in their own right to evolve too.

    If they evolved independently on separate planets they’d be different species who just looked similar though wouldn’t they? Unless the people who created the genetic material had some control as to how it would evolve… but I don’t think it works that way.

    #97217
    Somebody
    Participant

    > Unless the people who created the genetic material had some control as to how it would evolve?

    If they had, would they have been inked into suicide?

    #97219
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >If they had, would they have been inked into suicide?

    Good point. And proves mine that they’re likely from the same place. At least originally.

    #97228
    Carlito
    Participant

    > If they evolved independently on separate planets they?d be different species who just looked similar though wouldn?t they? Unless the people who created the genetic material had some control as to how it would evolve? but I don?t think it works that way.

    As we don’t deal with *aliens* on Red Dwarf, you’d have to imagine that these sea creatures originated from Earth at some point. The same species, taken to various ocean planets (with virtually identical natural surroundings and no other living forms to be found) to experiment with and breed. Left there to their own devices as the human race died out (assumption) or evolved during the last three million years… on one planet, scientists accelerated the evolution of these creatures to see what would become of them… they evolved into the creatures we have seen, these emotion-manipulating squids.

    This experiment may have been taking place millenia ago for all we know, giving all the other lickle squiddies in virtually identical environments plenty of time to eventually catch up and naturally evolve into the same creatures.

    #97231
    ChrisM
    Participant

    Hmmm. Okay, I’d buy that. We know they evolved on-planet but we don’t know at which stage they were introduced after all. I had an idea it was some kind of primeval sludge, building blocks of life thing, but they could have just put various sea creatures into the ocean, genetically manipulated them and watched them evolve further I guess. I.e. actual earth squids who evolved further, etc.

    I like the idea that Cat picked it up on the ocean moon in Back to Reality though. I know it’s a stretch considering all they went through I just find it amusing that through all those adventures, The Cat is popping off to a locker on Starbug somewhere with bits of grub off-screen.

    #97237
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I just re-watched Part 3. Cat specifically mentions that he got the Joy Squid from the ocean planet all those years ago. As they didn’t actually make it back to the ocean planet on their return trip in Nanarchy, this means that logically Cat must have brought it back to the Dwarf following the events of BTR, where it promptly escaped.

    Oh well. Doesn’t change the fact that Prelude is some of the best post-Rob Red Dwarf we’ve ever had.

    #97243
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >Isn?t the concept of Cannon in Red Dwarf ITSELF Non-Cannonical?

    Red Dwarf doesn’t – didn’t have plot cannon capability

    #97261
    Nakrophile
    Participant

    > I just re-watched Part 3. Cat specifically mentions that he got the Joy Squid from the ocean planet all those years ago. As they didn?t actually make it back to the ocean planet on their return trip in Nanarchy, this means that logically Cat must have brought it back to the Dwarf following the events of BTR, where it promptly escaped.

    I knew it!

    #97289
    ChrisM
    Participant

    >this means that logically Cat must have brought it back to the Dwarf following the events of BTR,

    Or grabbed it during those events, and probably not the Dwarf itself. As I said, I rewatched BTR recently and they actually wall between Starbug and the Esperanto along the Ocean floor. You only see 2 little blurred glimpses of them, to and fro, (mostly lights) but Cat could have grabbed the squid off-screen at any time.

    That being said if they had returned to orbit finding Red Dwarf gone… there’s a good chance they’d need to stock up on fuel and supplies since now Starbug is their primary vehicle. The Esperanto would be the closest thing and the Despair squid was destroyed. (Maybe they even got the deeps sleep units from there?) Cat could have grabbed the squid then.

    #97374
    Carlito
    Participant

    > I just re-watched Part 3. Cat specifically mentions that he got the Joy Squid from the ocean planet all those years ago.

    He NEVER specifically says the SAME ocean planet.

    #97433
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    He NEVER specifically says the SAME ocean planet.

    Yes, but the chances of a similar lifeform evolving under identical circumstances on another ocean planet are so minuscule as to be negligible.

    #97434
    Kris Carter
    Participant

    I think, EVERYBODY’S right, so just forget I said anything okay?

    #97436
    Carlito
    Participant

    But if you eliminate the impossible, then the implausible is the only explanation. We have established that (based on what we believe to be Dwarf canon) it could not be the same ocean planet. Therefore, it must be a different one.

    Or they may have even gone back to the same one, at a later date.

    #97439
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Cat specifically says “years ago, from that ocean planet“. If they’d been to more than one he’d presumably qualify which one. “Years ago, from that other ocean planet,” or “from that ocean planet that does all the fish.”

    #97441
    Nakrophile
    Participant

    I can’t believe this is still being discussed. It’s not obvious (well actually it is for me, but I guess it isn’t implicitly stated) that it’s the same ocean from BtR, but it’s pretty welcome to that kind of assumption.

    #97449
    Carlito
    Participant

    But we have already established that it can’t have been.

    #97451
    Carlito
    Participant

    Even if it was the same planet, and even if Cat took it back to the Dwarf after Back To Reality, it would have been turned into an asteroid along with the rest of the ship… so do we assume that the nanobots rebuilt the bloody squid as well? Where did Cat keep it when he was in prison?

    Logically, they could have encountered more ocean planets during the 9 year gap, and on one such trip Cat picked up a baby squid. So simple, and a much easier explanation than trying to figure out how he could possibly have picked one up when they were exploring the SSS Esperanto, and kept it in the interim

    #97452
    Pete Part Three
    Participant

    >But we have already established that it can?t have been.

    Carl, you do realise that Doug didn’t plan Back to Earth in 1992, right?

    #97462
    Nakrophile
    Participant

    I’m still sticking that it’s from BtR, and if I need to say that the nanobots recreated the squid that that’s precisely what I’m going to do.

    #97473
    Carlito
    Participant

    > Carl, you do realise that Doug didn?t plan Back to Earth in 1992, right?

    Thing is it’s a comedy fantasy show and I personally don’t give much of a shit about continuity, but as some people seem to feel the need for everything to tie up, I’m just offering suggestions as to why logistically these plot holes can be explained. I’m happy to say “fine, it came from the exact same planet then, and who gives a fuck how it ended up in the Red Dwarf water tank?” I have no investment in it.

    But as it seems impossible, based on the timeline and events of the series since Back To Reality, that Cat could have picked up a squid on the same ocean planet, and somehow have it end up in the water tank, you can either just say “massive plot hole, there you go” or you can have a bit of fun trying to fill in the blanks and make it workable.

    #97476
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Maybe Cat kept it in the water tank on Star Bug, when Star Bug crashed on Red Dwarf it was in the other section of the ship which did not blow up, then it found its way into the water system via a broken pipe from the crash, it got into the water tank, Red Dwarf blew up with Rimmer on it as with the Series VIII end and it gets restored by the nanobots but the crew don’t, new Red Dwarf, lovely squid and 9 years to wait for it to grow, now how did the squid get food?

    #97517
    ChrisM
    Participant

    I’m going with the ‘squid from BtR brought on board Starbug and probably frozen in stasis at some point, then escaping after BitR’ theory.

    And as I’ve said there were plenty of places Cat could have picked it up walking along the ocean floor between Starbug and the Esperanto as they were.

    I think I’m in a temporal loop. ;)

    #97521
    Dessie
    Participant

    >I?m still sticking that it?s from BtR, and if I need to say that the nanobots recreated the squid that that?s precisely what I?m going to do.

    This theory seems fine to me. although does this mean that Lister now has 2 guitars?

    #97531
    Phil
    Participant

    >although does this mean that Lister now has 2 guitars?

    Where’s TongueTied when you need him?

    #97533
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    I just had a brief email conversation with Andrew about whether or not he’d have time to write a Jump Leads story, as we’d discussed it towards the end of last year. He says he’s too busy – BTE DVD in the works, amongst other things – but I secretly reckon he’s mad at me for de-canonizing Prelude To Nanarchy.

    Don’t tell him I said that, though. He’d remove the E-string from his Rock Band 2 guitar and garrote me with it.

    #97546
    Carlito
    Participant

    What is Jump Leads?

    #97548
    JamesTC
    Participant

    Online comic – http://www.jump-leads.com/

    #97553
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    Buy our book, Carl! Buy it like your life depends upon it!

    #97650
    Ridley
    Participant

    Maybe Cat kept it in the water tank on Star Bug, when Star Bug crashed on Red Dwarf it was in the other section of the ship which did not blow up, then it found its way into the water system via a broken pipe from the crash, it got into the water tank, Red Dwarf blew up with Rimmer on it as with the Series VIII end and it gets restored by the nanobots but the crew don?t, new Red Dwarf, lovely squid and 9 years to wait for it to grow, now how did the squid get food?

    Ate the population of The Tank?

    I’d like to think the nanobot crew got scattered and lost in space after evacuating Red Dwarf, and Kochanski went to go looking for them when she left Lister.

    #97655
    Ben Paddon
    Participant

    It also seems likely that the “pencil” Red Dwarf didn’t survive the corrosive virus at the end of VIII, and that the nanos (either Kryten’s originals or Holly’s duplicates) rebuilt the actual, original version of the ship from scratch.

    #97669
    NitroChrisUK
    Participant

    >It also seems likely that the ?pencil? Red Dwarf didn?t survive the corrosive virus at the end of VIII, and that the nanos (either Kryten?s originals or Holly?s duplicates) rebuilt the actual, original version of the ship from scratch.

    then i could be really picky and ask how the others got back from the mirror universe to s ship that had been destroyed

    #97671
    Carlito
    Participant

    > then i could be really picky and ask how the others got back from the mirror universe to s ship that had been destroyed

    By creating a larger device which created a mirror universe wormhole, and they flew a couple Starbugs and Blue Midgets through it (in order to repopulate the ships runaround vessels, which had all been taken by the original crew). When they arrived back, all that remained of Dwarf was a little fraction of its former self, where they cornered the nanobots, got them to rebuild the ship, and booted up Rimmer’s hologram.

    #97674
    Ridley
    Participant

    It also seems likely that the ?pencil? Red Dwarf didn?t survive the corrosive virus at the end of VIII, and that the nanos (either Kryten?s originals or Holly?s duplicates) rebuilt the actual, original version of the ship from scratch.

    Or dumped the end half to get rid of the virus and customised the rest.

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