Red Dwarf VIII?

[Jawscvmcdia]

It has been more than fifteen years since Red Dwarf VIII was first shown British television, but how well does it hold up?

Given its change in direction, as well as cast of new characters from Bird Man to Chopper, the series has been isolated as a ‘backward step’ but is this the case? One could suggest that it was a brave new step for a series that, by Series VIII, had gotten stale and repetitive. Even by Series VI, the cracks where beginning to show when the writers, Naylor and Grant, had to effectively write out the main ship in the series to come up with new ideas. Eventually by Series VII, this premise had too worn itself out, so a decision to bring back the ship, this time with its original crew, was a risky move but understandable.

Lister’s original mission was to get back to Earth and buy a farm on Fiji with Kochanski. Whilst he did eventually get back to Earth on three occasions, it was obvious to anybody that his plan was far-fetched at best. Getting back to Earth when three-million-years into the future, with a woman who was out of his league, and start a farm in a tropical country in the middle of nowhere wasn’t the smartest of ideas. The whole idea that Lister is supposed to be the last human alive is one that has been thoroughly explored, so isn’t it time for it to be put to resolved?

Topic

[Ben Paddon]

Hi, Alex!

No.

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

[Phil]

“…cast of new characters from Bird Man to Chopper…”

I honestly have no recollection of who or what Chopper is.

Not trying to be a dick…I really don’t know if this is a typo, an error, or something I’ve totally erased from my mind.

[MANI506]

In many ways I find VIII the most fascinating series of all. All the series have their own distinctive tones but VIII is completely out on it’s own. It’s full of contradictions. It’s one of the least loved, yet one of the most successful in terms of initial audience and reviews. It has an amazing model sequence in episode one, but it’s surrounded by CGI. It has skutters, but one of them is in a stomach. It is funny, but it’s also stupid.

[Ridley]

Chopper played a guard apparently. Maybe he’s thinking of Archie?

[Pete Part Three]

>It has been more than fifteen years since Red Dwarf VIII was first shown British television, but how well does it hold up?

As well as it ever did. So not very well at all.

>the series has been isolated as a ‘backward step’ but is this the case?

Yes.

>Eventually by Series VII, this premise had too worn itself out, so a decision to bring back the ship, this time with its original crew, was a risky move but understandable.

I don’t think anyone questioned the decision to go back to Red Dwarf. That wasn’t risky and was completely understandable. Going back to the mother ship wasn’t changing what the show was “about”.

Bringing back the original crew though? That seemed questionable right as soon as it was announced. Red Dwarf I-VII was a case of the crew tackling the loneliness and dangers of deep space, Red Dwarf VIII was a case of the crew being ordered to do menial tasks or they would get in trouble with Captain Hollister.

>The whole idea that Lister is supposed to be the last human alive is one that has been thoroughly explored, so isn’t it time for it to be put to resolved?

Yes. When the show ends. If you’re suggesting the show should end, then I wouldn’t argue too much with you. However, if you want the show to continue, then I don’t see why resolving *that* would be in its best interests.

What’s the alternative? Bring back the crew again? Have a series set on Earth?

[Renegade Rob]

Series VIII was ill-conceived and poorly executed to say the least.

However… there are a number of interesting ideas and opportunities that, on paper, COULD have been really good and were maybe touched on. Is VIII a pile of horse shit? Absolutely? Do I have anything good to say about it? No, though it has a cool DVD menu. However, there are some underlying themes and ideas that VIII touched on but squandered that had potential:

1) The idea of resurrecting the crew isn’t necessarily a bad one. The prison thing, maybe, but the Canaries could have been cool. Start an episode in the bunkroom then go on a mission. But I don’t think you needed a prison setting to do that. I would have really liked a scenario in which Hollister goes “Look, you’re fuck-ups, but clearly there’s mitigating circumstances. We’re all on the same team here. It’s 3 million years in the future, we’re stranded, and you guys are our best experts on what’s out there. How about you become our resident explorers and help us suss out where we are and what happened to humanity.” They could have had the Montague bunkroom AND had adventures like V and VI, all while dicking around with Todhunter and Petersen. It could have been the best of the early and later series combined. However, like I whinged on about in another thread, that would require the crew to be more serious and competent and less cartoonish. The revived crew had potential, damn it.

2) On that same note, what VIII touched on was things coming full circle. Much like a Campbellian cyclical journey, Lister started out with a crew and as a bozo, but then left that setting and then had seasons of space adventures, and now the crew’s back and he’s back to being on the bottom, but now he’s matured and grown. The concept of the Series VI-era Lister back in a Series I-II setting is a FUCKING COOL idea, and BITR1 touches on it, with the occasional semi-okay gag. Everything kind of comes full circle in VIII, and there are constant past references to Legion and Future Echoes. It’s got male Holly and Kryten and Kochanski. Hollister interacts with the Cat. The Dwarfers are kind of meeting their maker, and while it made for horrible television as originally executed, the full-circle-ness of it was interesting. It kind of felt like a final season that way.

3) I liked the idea that, even though the Boys from the Dwarf have had years of experience making it through crazy space adventures, they’re easily outwitted and outmatched by the competent old crew. In a world where it was just the four of them, relatively, they were cool and badass for triumphing against various enemies, but the fact that they’re so handily beaten and outclassed by Hollister and Holly just shows perspective. The Dwarfers were always still losers, but for years they weren’t losers relative to anything else, but now they are again. interesting concept, again, not done well.

4) Kochanski had a couple good moments in VII whereas in VIII she was absolutely given nothing. The Cassandra scenes don’t count. Kochanski was SQUANDERED which especially sucks because VIII, theoretically, should have been her season. Are you telling me a navigation officer doesn’t have clout? She could have just pulled Hollister aside at any moment and been like “Listen, so here’s our situation.” When the Dwarfers were first arrested, Lister was in trouble and had stowaways “along with navigation officer Kristine Kochanski.” Isn’t it the bigger deal that Kochanski was on board? Shouldn’t she have been the main target of their inquiry “along with technician Dave Lister?” Why was she secondary to him in that situation? The idea of Kochanski back on board ship in her natural habitat could have been a rich mine for plot and comedy, but no. Instead we stick her in a jail cell and give her a teddy bear.

5) It’s a “rumor” that Red Dwarf is 3 million years in deep space. The Red Dwarf crew in VIII seem to be taking that pretty well. In Series I, that subject is given a great deal of emotional weight. But after Hollister acknowledges it early on in BITR1, it doesn’t seem to bug anyone else?! It would have been cool to see the other crew react to that and try to deal with it a little more. Instead, they’re just hangin’ out on the ship doing their thing.

6) The prison idea HAD potential, not just for the bunkroom and action settings. The Dwarfers against “the man” could have been really funny and subversive. But again, the crew has to be serious. If they were really kind of stuck in a future dystopian prison setting, there could have been some really great stories and sci-fi concepts.

I guess my point is VIII sucked the big one, but it had some underlying cool ideas that were mishandled (understatement).

[srmcd1]

It really could’ve been an interesting twist on the old premise. Still having those same old adventures, but now they have someone to report to. Suddenly those ol’ Space Corps Directive actually MATTER.

It does strike me as odd, though, that after all the hectic adventures with GELFs, simulants, mad holograms and other weird creatures, the universe suddenly goes a bit silent, with nothing popping out of the woodwork to destroy the resurrected crew. Would’ve been a neat idea to have them getting caught with their shorts down, as a bunch of officers on a mining ship would have no idea how to deal with a triple-buttocked GELF warrior tribe attacking them, forcing them to rely on advice and tactics from the Boyz to survive.

Also, I would’ve preferred it if Rimmer had retained his memories of being a hologram. The whole ‘reset Rimmer’ would’ve been okay for the first episode, but then I would’ve liked him to start remembering over the course of the premiere and be back to normal by the end.

[Dax101]

I remember around 1999 to 2001 in the fanclub magazine there was a favourite series poll and the results were red dwarf 5 as the best series with red dwarf 8 as second best series… so looking at how the red dwarf 8 episodes have dropped quite low in peoples minds over time i’d guess it hasn’t held up very well

if you was gonna do the crew being brought back it should have been for 3 episodes at the most but overall i don’t think that was the major issue of series 8

[Pete Part Three]

>I remember around 1999 to 2001 in the fanclub magazine there was a favourite series poll and the results were red dwarf 5 as the best series with red dwarf 8 as second best series…

I think this was around the time I stopped renewing my membership.

[International Debris]

I always liked the idea that Lister would have to go back to work, and nobody would believe him about his adventures in space – suddenly he’s living a menial technician’s life again, and he begins to question whether he was happier when he was the last human being alive…

Of course this would still leave open the utterly ridiculous plot hole of just *what* the crew of a mining ship are going to be doing 3 million years into deep space other than panicking and working out how to get home.

Ugh. Obviously pointing out plot holes in VIII is old hat now, but it never fails to anger me how little of the series actually makes sense. Even now it still bugs me that technically, out there somewhere, the crew of Red Dwarf are still around in countless Starbugs and Blue Midgets. I’m terrified the Red Dwarf lot are going to stumble across Captain Hollister, probably having killed the rest of the Starbug crew so he can munch all their supplies, the fat bastard. Actually, Lister being sad again about being the last of his species in X is nonsense, isn’t it? There are 1,167 of them out there that you know of! Like Lister wouldn’t go off in serach of his best friends Petersen, Chen, Selby and Bent Bob.

I’m beginning to remember why I use the ’10 Years Later’ caption at the start of BTE as a resolution for the VI or VII cliffhangers, depending on my mood.

[Slainmonkey]

This blows my mind actually given just how poorly I through of Series VIII back at the time and the fact I was only 13, I remember thinking how juvenile I found most of it to be. My opinions of it haven’t changed much outside of growing to dislike it even more which was kinda the opposite of how I feel with series VII which I’ve warmed a bit towards. However it astonish me that people were that fond of series VIII given that many fans would have been far older then I when I first saw it.

[Slainmonkey]

Welp, seems in my time gone I’ve forgotten how to use the tags

[International Debris]

I was 14, I cringed a lot.

[Renegade Rob]

Maybe I’m a snob, but every time I read that a lot of people really liked VIII and considered it a return to form and all that, and even when people say they just have a soft spot for it… I don’t get it. I mean, when people shit on VII, even though I really like large parts of it, the hate’s totally understandable.

But VIII is utterly devoid of coherent humor or anything to latch onto. Can someone explain to me how the people who enjoy VIII are able to enjoy it? Is it just that they hated VII more? For all of VII’s flaws and unfunniness, at least it knew how to tell a story. How is not leagues ahead of VIII? I’d actually be interested in that perspective; if I ever watch VIII again, I’d be stoked to watch it from a different angle, a more positive one, but I just can’t latch onto anything positive. So what am I missing?

[MANI506]

I remember Stephen Hawking in the A-Z saying how he loves that Red Dwarf doesn’t take itself too seriously. So I choose to watch VIII in that spirit.

I would recommend the fan edits of Pete and Every Dog… on Daily Motion as the best way to revisit the series. Every Dog… In particular makes the last episode so much better

[Renegade Rob]

> Every Dog… In particular makes the last episode so much better

Yeah, I’ve seen it. It’s not bad.

I feel like VIII’s incoherency gets in the way of any potentially good jokes. It’s the opposite of VII, which was coherent but with less jokes. Almost as if putting VII and VIII in a blender and taking the best of each and mixing them would result in a semi-okay series. I doubt it’s possible, but a VII-VIII edit, reducing those 16 episodes into a single 6-episode series… that I’d love to see on dailymotion.

[Jawscvmcdia]

It seems to me that by Series VII, Doug was trying to produce a comedy-drama with an emphasis on the drama, rather than on the comedy. This was possibly inspired by the Series VI ending which was very dramatic indeed. After the series aired, and quite possibly due to the negative reception it received, Doug turned up the silliness factor by Series VIII to over compensate.

This also backfired as Red Dwarf isn’t the same as One Foot in the Grave or Keeping Up Appearances, which whilst are sitcoms in their own right, are much more relatable than four beings on a space ship in the middle of space. For example, One Foot in the Grave throughout its run was able to be both comedic and dramatic, but Red Dwarf had established a set formula of humour in the first series at a time when the opportunity to be dramatic was much harder to do.

[MANI506]

I remember Douglas saying at the time of the tenth anniversary that he felt he owed the fans a really funny Red Dwarf novel after the dramatic direction of Last Human so it was definitely his intention to make series VIII as funny as possible too.

It’s a shame we have to take the rough with the smooth with VII and VIII. I’ve always thought that there are two decent six part series in there.

[International Debris]

I’m really quite amazed that anybody ever thought VIII was up there with the others. Even on first watch, with the (relatively few) good jokes new to me, so raising some big laughs, it was clearly weaker than everything so far.

VII was obviously an experiment into taking the show in a new direction, one which certainly didn’t work, partially because the loss of Rob and Chris made it just seem TOO different. If there was a gradual move in the direction of the dramatic, that would be much better as it would be more finely honed and the humour would have been developed to suit the style better (i.e. you don’t end up with daft VIII-style shit like pipes that say hernunger). Although personally I’m not sure if the more cinematic style would ever have suited the show well. I like the grimy look of the first six series, which was lost in the polish of 7 onwards.

Anyway, yes, VII is bad Red Dwarf, VIII is bad television.

[peepingsignal]

> VII is bad Red Dwarf, VIII is bad television.

I think that’s the best way I’ve seen those two series summed up.

Also I agree with Renegade Rob and MANI, I think somewhere in these two series is some decent material, more so in VII than VIII. I also like the Idea that Red Dwarf could have gradually become a more dramatic show. Now I’m imagining a series VII made in 1995 featuring Rob and Chris, which probably wouldn’t be terrible compared to the VII we got.

This is fueling my love of Red Dwarf AND Alternate History. Hmm, I’m getting ideas.

[MANI506]

On the intro cast Heath and Angela responded very strongly to BITR part one. I also think that as a half hour it is very good, especially as a reaction to VII. I laughed heartily at the French movie star dialogue and it was so good to see Chris and Norman back. I’m convinced that most of the good reviews on the back of the VIII script book are for this episode.

[Paul Muller]

I’ve never really had an issue with the drama elements in Red Dwarf, especially going back and looking at the first two series – there’s some real pathos and nuanced character stuff going on there, as well as some genuine peril and proper science fiction ideas. Obviously, VII was a bit flat, but I think that it’s as much to do with the lack of Chris, pacing and scant jokes than the overall comedy/drama balance of the series. As a twelve year old, watching series VIII when it was first broadcast, I remember noticing the massive contrast between the two series – VIII was more like a cartoon. Performances were broad, jokes that might have worked as one liners were bloated and overlong and characterisation, plot, logic and development were presumably bludgeoned to death and buried under Paul Alexander’s patio. The subsequent series’ are definitely an improvement but I still get a chill run up my spine each time one of the cast gurns at the camera or a guest character is killed off in a comedy fashion…

[clem]

> I remember Douglas saying at the time of the tenth anniversary that he felt he owed the fans a really funny Red Dwarf novel after the dramatic direction of Last Human so it was definitely his intention to make series VIII as funny as possible too.

That’s interesting. You do have to wonder what Doug was thinking with VIII. I’ve said before that series is the RD equivalent to the Gene Deitch Tom and Jerry cartoons, except they really were made by people who didn’t quite get what they were meant to be doing and had very little respect or affection for what had come before. VIII just seems like it was. And yes it’s “bad television” but it’s fucking awful Red Dwarf.

[Dax101]

i think someone mentioned it above but i remember reading in an early fanclub magazing in 1998 where there was a poll about what people wanted for series 8 and “more comedy” won so i don’t know if that had an impact on the direction to make series 8 more spoofy but it certainly was a wrong one

[pfm]

People should just be thankful they have a roof over their heads. It’s a slightly sub-par series of a brilliant television programme…

[MANI506]

It’s true, we’re lucky to be alive and very lucky to have two new series to look forward to. This is a true story, on new years day 1993 I had a bike accident (totally not serious or life threatening). I genuinely thought to myself ‘I can’t die now, I still haven’t seen series one of Red Dwarf.’

[Pete Part Three]

I’m bemused by the assertion that Red Dwarf has *ever* strayed close to being a comedy-drama. There’s a difference between a show not trying to make you laugh every 30 seconds, and simply failing to make you laugh every 30 seconds. A random scene where the tone is suddenly a bit “off” (as in BTE’s first scene and stupid Blade Runner finale) does not alter the genre of a show. Balance of Power does pathos far better. Look how it deals with death, for example. Specifically Rimmer’s “hilarious” murder of Katarina.

Same with VII. It’s *trying* to make you laugh. The atmosphere may be off and more reminiscent of a comedy-drama, but there really isn’t a tonal shift.

There’s not an increase in (attempted) gags in Series VIII compared to VII, it’s just that the bar has been lowered substantially and all of the characters are acting like fucking morons because that’s apparently funnier

[Ben Paddon]

I don’t get how you can look at Red Dwarf VII, with it’s increased emphasis on continuity, on consequences to actions, on the actions and inactions of characters influencing the mood of others in ways that affect the plot and, importantly, the shift in presentation, and think, “Yeah, this isn’t comedy-drama.” Whether you feel it’s successful or not, VII is very clearly trying very, very hard to push the drama buttons. It’s experimental, true, and it doesn’t stick around for VIII (though it makes a partial return in BTE) but it’s definitely comedy-drama.

[Pete Part Three]

>with it’s increased emphasis on continuity,

Like Red Dwarf VI?

>consequences to actions,

When *weren’t* there consequences to actions?

>the shift in presentation

That’s like saying The Office is a comedy-drama because it has no studio audience. Presentation doesn’t equal genre, especially when the cast are pausing in dialogue for laughs to be added in later. I sincerely doubt there was a conscious decision to inform the actors they were now in “comedy-drama mode” and, if there are differences in their subsequent performance, it’s simply because they’re no longer responding to a live audience.

>VII is very clearly trying very, very hard to push the drama buttons.
Give me examples of VII doing this, and I’ll give you examples of I-VI doing this. And I daresay it’s incredibly difficult to find a moment of true pathos in series I-VIII inclusive that isn’t subsequently undermined by a joke.

[Taiwan Tony]

I think of series VII as a comedy-drama.
The reason I think of it as a comedy-drama is because I didn’t laugh at it much.
But I didn’t find it very dramatic either.
So I am probably not adding to this discussion.
Or am I just agreeing with Pete Part Three?
Starting to read like a beat poem?
No.

One thing I will suggest is that, genre-labelling aside, Red Dwarf has always been a dramatic comedy. The crew being killed. The near-loss of the human race. That time Lister cut off his dreadlocks! You wouldn’t get that in On The Buses.

[Paul Muller]

Yeah I think ‘dramatic comedy’ is more accurate than ‘comedy drama’.

Anyway, in summary, I hate Series VIII.

[Slainmonkey]

I feel the dramedy elements in VII or worse in BTE would have worked better in smaller doses. Fathers and Suns almost got this balance perfect if it didn’t have that dreadful Taiwan Tony garbage that felt like it was lifted right out of series VIII and The Beginning had some of those traits too. Now I just hope that Doug keeps trying to play the balancing act in the writing and doesn’t slip too far into the realm of drama or go as stupid as series VIII was.

[Ridley]

Neither the Rimmer coffin sequence or Lister saying goodbye to his incest baby are played for laughs.

[Pete Part Three]

I’m not really sure what the Rimmer coffin sequence is supposed to be saying beyond “Buy into this, because Chris Barrie is out of here”. Either way, I’m not convinced cartoonish CGI and library music really helps its cause.

Ouroboros holds the distinction of having an ending which neither ends on a cliff-hanger nor *intends* to make you laugh. Unfortunately, since it also includes a scene where Lister dresses in a frilly pink dressing gown and bunny slippers for cheap laughs, it’s kind of lost me by that point.

If the scene was Lister truly giving up his son (as he did with Jim and Bexley offscreen), I’d find it easier to call it “dramatic”. However,since Lister knows *exactly* what will happen to this son (by means of an unoriginal sci-fi idea), I do find myself thinking “So?”, especially as it’s hard to equate this to a comparable real-life situation. Mind you, I am a heartless bastard.

I really don’t think you need to look further than the very first scene of Red Dwarf VII to see its intentions. 3 years after the best, most dramatic cliffhanger the show ever pulled and they hurriedly defuse it with a joke about camcorders.

28 minutes later, the most fondly remembered POTUS assassinates himself. And then Lister makes a joke about curry and the rest of the crew stamp on his head.

[Ben Paddon]

So a drama-comedy can’t possibly be a drama-comedy because of the presence of comedy?

[srmcd1]

It’s a classic “Catch 44” situation.

Oh, wait. Series VIII gag. Sorry.

[Pete Part Three]

>So a drama-comedy can’t possibly be a drama-comedy because of the presence of comedy?

No, but a sitcom with dramatic moments shouldn’t be reclassed as a “drama-comedy” as it’s kind of a given that most sitcoms, within their own trappings, will have dramatic moments. They’re kind of integral for anything to happen in a plot.

“Drama comedy” gives the impression that there’s a more equal weighting between drama and comedy. This is absolutely not the case. The plots of VII – like its predecessors – are, on the most part, built on comically quirky ideas, relying on the characters to act in irrational ways to create drama.

It’s also general rule of sitcoms that there should be a “funny line” at least every 3-4 lines. By and large, Red Dwarf VII sticks to this. It may not achieve it, but its objective is still to make you laugh. A comedy-drama really doesn’t have this obligation.

Keep the same scripts, add a studio audience and some cameras, drop the film effect…and it would “feel” just like regular sitcom Red Dwarf. Albeit distinctly subpar sitcom Red Dwarf.

[Taiwan Tony]

Do you all know Tikka to Ride – best ep of VII IMO – is a story as seen in the Twilight Zone?

It’s good, this discussion. Anyone remember that episode of Barbara when Sam Kelly killed Hitler?

[Moonlight]

>Either way, I’m not convinced cartoonish CGI and library music really helps its cause.

But that wasn’t a library track, it was composed by Howard Goodall. It’s the same tune as the action sequence at the beginning of the episode.

[Pete Part Three]

Yes, I probably should have checked this (or, at the very least, tried to find the sequence on YouTube and reacquaint myself with it). It’s a long time since I watched VII.

Thanks for reminding me of the bit in the comedy-drama where someone sky-surfs on an alligator though!

[Ridley]

Wait a minute… you don’t like Red Dwarf VII!

[International Debris]

C’mon now, this is the thread for talking about how shit VIII is. Get your own thread, VII bashers!

[Pete Part Three]

Sorry. I work to a schedule:

Mondays: Moan about Red Dwarf VII
Tuesdays: Moan about Red Dwarf Remastered
Wednesdays : Moan about Red Dwarf VIII
Thursdays : Moan about The Simpsons season 11 onwards
Fridays : Moan about Red Dwarf Back to Earth
Saturdays : Moan about Red Dwarf X
Sundays : Write meandering posts on websites referencing the meandering posts I make on websites.

I’ll be back on Wednesday, right after I learn Portugese.

[International Debris]

I think you’re being very kind on The Simpsons season 10 there.

[Moonlight]

While I admit the cracks in the show are becoming prominent by season 10 (and season 11 is actively collapsing under its own weight most of the time, especially in the godawful third act of “Saddlesore Galactica”), I didn’t tap out until 12 on my recent watch-through. Although maybe I’m being to lenient on them for feeling so much more like the classic era than the current season that I’ve been following merely the novelty of watching Simpsons episodes I’ve never seen before. Even if they’re rarely funny enough to be worth it. I’ve got nothing better to do, alright? Lay off.

Aaaaaaaand this is turning into a “when did the Simpsons stop being funny” debate. But then again those are a lot less clear cut than the same debate for Dwarf, since almost everyone can agree it crashed and burned after VII. Minus of course those who dislike VI for being too formulaic, but their opinions are bad and they should feel bad. (I’ll just state for the record here that I don’t think that that’s an unreasonable criticism, it’s just that with only six episodes it doesn’t last long enough to become repetitive in my opinion).

Now, the REAL Dwarf debate is whether it got good again, and if so in which season. This will become increasingly interesting to argue about as XI and XII come out.

[MANI506]

I was a Simpsons addict until I saw the episode with Kid Rock when the family went to Florida. Not sure what season that is but I remember how disappointed I was. At least the movie was good and a recent episode set in Iceland was good too.

Most disappointed I’ve been with Red Dwarf is probably the end of Emohawk. First time I thought ‘is that it?’ on first broadcast.

[John Hoare]

Most disappointed I’ve been with Red Dwarf is probably the end of Emohawk. First time I thought ‘is that it?’ on first broadcast.

WHAT A DIBBLEY

(I like Emohawk a lot, but that ending isn’t great. And the first half of the episode is far stronger than the second.)

[Pete Part Three]

>Most disappointed I’ve been with Red Dwarf is probably the end of Emohawk. First time I thought ‘is that it?’ on first broadcast.

Emohawk was my introduction to being disappointed with Red Dwarf but, was by no means, the pnacle.

I’d be (relatively) satisfied with the final joke, if Kryten and Lister had actually been transformed too. But it’s just seems like half an episode. It also seems to take far too long to get to the stuff with the Kinatowi clan (and,as a consequence, the “sequel” stuff”).

The problem with sequels, is that you have preconceptions of where the story will go.

[MANI506]

The same disappointment was there for series VIII (excluding BITR1 and Cassandra).

The ending of Back To Earth part two was way too much WTF but I don’t think I was disappointed.

Dear Dave and Entangled made me a bit sad inside. Aside from that I’ve really enjoyed the last twenty years of Dwarf.

[MANI506]

The end of Beyond A Joke could fuck right off on first broadcast too! I don’t mind it so much these days…

[Author]

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