Red Dwarf’s inclusion in “greatest ever TV series” polls and listicles

[Nick R]

Empire did a readers’ poll of The 100 Best TV Shows Of All Time, and Red Dwarf made it on there:

https://www.empireonline.com/tv/features/best-tv-shows/

This news on its own isn’t really worth making a new topic about. So let’s expand the scope: if you know of any other publications that have done lists of the greatest sitcoms/comedies/TV programmes/sci-fi series that featured Red Dwarf, post about it here.

Or, if you can’t think of any, you can – if you must – use this as a place to complain about what did and did not make it onto Empire’s list, and in what order.

Topic

[Ben Saunders]

The Orville was worth it for “500 cigarettes”

[Technopeasant]

Red Dwarf is the only British show on the list (though I’d agree Doctor Who only somewhat counts as a space show), but I will give them credit for including an anime (that isn’t Cowboy Bebop).

[Technopeasant]

The Orville was worth it for “500 cigarettes”

[Warbodog]

I will give them credit for including an anime (that isn’t Cowboy Bebop).

I watched the original 110-episode-plus-movie LotGH, but don’t think I made it into double figures for Cowboy Bebop once they introduced the kid.

[Moonlight]

Nothing I read about The Orville made it sound like it was worth my time.

The Orville has an iffy start but it genuinely does get very good.

I will give them credit for including an anime (that isn’t Cowboy Bebop).

Is it Space Dandy?

[Nick R]

I watched the original 110-episode-plus-movie LotGH, but don’t think I made it into double figures for Cowboy Bebop once they introduced the kid.

Whereas I watched the Cowboy Bebop movie first, and then was disappointed that Ed (the best character) wasn’t introduced until surprisingly late in the series.

[Moonlight]

I have somehow seen the Cowboy Bebop movie twice yet seen it sober zero times.

[Moonlight]

Is it Space Dandy?

Space Dandy is a comedy by the Cowboy Bebop creator that follows three losers on a spaceship struggling to hunt rare aliens to make a living, one of which is a space cat and another a cleaning robot. It zigzags between zany comedy and surprisingly poignant storytelling with lots of high concept sci-fi ideas. It wouldn’t say it’s the anime equivalent to Red Dwarf but I doubt you’d find anything closer.

[Moonlight]

Oh, triple posting like an asshole but I completely forgot and I need to throw this in since it’s always a crapshoot with anime, the dub is actually solid.

[Technopeasant]

I don’t think I made it into double figures for Cowboy Bebop once they introduced the kid.

But did you get to the rather unfortunate Space Shuttle Columbia episode?

[Technopeasant]

Is it Space Dandy?

[Technopeasant]

“It ran for eight seasons and was revived for four between 2007 and 2020.”

https://movieweb.com/90s-tv-shows-that-became-cult-classics/

Get the dates right MovieWeb, there’s a bag of chips in it for ya!

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

“It ran for eight seasons and was revived for four between 2007 and 2020.”
https://movieweb.com/90s-tv-shows-that-became-cult-classics/

Get the dates right MovieWeb, there’s a bag of chips in it for ya!

Hey now. Red Christmas was released in 2007. Don’t be doing it dirty

[RunawayTrain]

Well, technically, it was between 2007 and 2020 …

[Hamish]

There were five productions in that time though, but let’s not get into “seasons” again…

[Technopeasant]

Six if you do include the Mobisodes.

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Seven if you include Bodysnatcher 

[Technopeasant]

Makes excluding Identity Within seem unfair though.

[Warbodog]

Just seen that Red Dwarf is #54 on Rotten Tomatoes’ 100 Best Sci-Fi TV Shows. Could have been worse, though based on the editorial preamble, conflicting placement (Doctor Who’s at #2 despite only a 64% audience score), and suspicious lack of some big shows from the last decade while making time for the likes of Teen Mom 2 at #89, it’s next to meaningless.

[Warbodog]

At least the show page on there is more reliable.

“In his haste not to dwell on the construction of the episode guide, somehow he’d included two Season 9s and 12s.”

[Technopeasant]

[Technopeasant]

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/list/5-tv-sci-fi-series-begging-for-reboots/

But then, they apparently are unaware the Dave era exists.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/10-best-80s-sci-fi-tv-shows-where-to-stream/

I could potentially see a new multi-season book accurate adaptation of H2G2 though, which wasn’t mentioned.

And more slipperiness with dates:

https://collider.com/red-dwarf-sci-fi-sitcom-rick-and-morty-futurama/

[International Debris]

1988-1999, with a TPL picture underneath.

[Warbodog]

I’d rather something vaguely rip off Red Dwarf in a new direction and be honest about the influence than officially reboot it with other people. The idea of googling “red dwarf lister” and seeing the images split with Craig and some other guy is depressing to me (not kept up with how many Spocks there are now).

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

1988-1999, with a TPL picture underneath.

I really don’t know how you fuck that up. Surely you reference IMDB at the very least, and not just try and remember when you last saw something on TV.

[Technopeasant]

I’d rather something vaguely rip off Red Dwarf in a new direction and be honest about the influence than officially reboot it with other people. The idea of googling “red dwarf lister” and seeing the images split with Craig and some other guy is depressing to me (not kept up with how many Spocks there are now).

Paging Rob Grant.

[Flap Jack]

You can reboot Red Dwarf with a new cast and still guarantee a “red dwarf lister” image search will only show pictures of Craig. Red Dwarf USA managed it.

[Technopeasant]

red dwarf lister

[Dave]

Kryten gets a shout-out in this list, accompanied by possibly the least flattering photo of the character ever.

[Flap Jack]

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

This shot of Ash in Alien after a crew bukkake session is more flattering 

[Dave]

[Dave]

[Ian Symes]

 Kryten gets a shout-out in this list,

The premise of this list is best characters who weren’t in the show from the start, of which yes, Kryten is an excellent example. But half of them are just guest characters, which is nowhere near as interesting as regular characters who were introduced later on. Lord Flashheart is one of the best guest characters of all time, but there’s nothing particularly unusual about the fact that he wasn’t in the very first episode. Surely Melchett or George fits the bill better. For Doctor Who, they’ve got River Song, when it could be literally anyone apart from the First Doctor, Ian, Barbara or Susan. And Sideshow Bob! He was there in the first season!

[Warbodog]

And Sideshow Bob! He was there in the first season!

There were three seasons of shorts before that, but I don’t know if anyone except me counts those as proper.

[Dave]

Either way, in the context of the Simpsons as it is today, describing Sideshow Bob as a later-introduced character feels bonkers.

[Flap Jack]

There were three seasons of shorts before that, but I don’t know if anyone except me counts those as proper.

They’re canon, but they’re part of The Tracy Ullman Show, not The Simpsons. If you count the originating show as part of the spin off, then you could just as well put “The Sarah Jane Adventures – Sarah Jane Smith” on the list.

But yeah, they cast the net way too wide. Best Post-Season 1 Regulars / Major Recurrings would be a much more interesting list. I immediately thought of Chris Traeger from Parks & Rec, not Ewan Roy from Succession, a character who was intended to be a recurring character from the very beginning of the show but just happened not to turn up until a few episodes in. And Doctor Who should be exempt from consideration just due to the nature of it.

Although maybe The Master could be a legitimate example? Completely absent from the first 7 seasons, then was a full regular for Season 8, then never permanently went away. He represents a genuine paradigm shift.

[Moonlight]

Frank Reynolds.

[Dave]

Personally I’m just amazed that Snacky didn’t make the list.

[Warbodog]

This is such a rare phenomenon in TV, most shows hit the ground running from episode 1 and don’t need to introduce new characters as they go along and keep the ones that people like.

Is the Guardian Den of Geek now?

[Nick R]

The Guardian’s own list is more consistent about picking characters who could reasonably be described as late additions. Except for Chris Finch from The Office – 3 episodes into a run of 12 episodes and one proper special counts as a late arrival? Should’ve picked Rebecca Front or Roger Allam’s characters from The Thick of It!

As for The Simpsons, Sideshow Bob is definitely far too early to count. Even additions from season 2 (Lionel Hutz, Troy McClure), season 3 (Fat Tony) or season 4 (Chalmers) now feel like they’ve been there from the start. Characters who genuinely still feel like “recent” additions to me include Manjula (season 7), and Gil, Duffman, and the Crazy Cat Lady (season 9).

[Dave]

Disco Stu.

[Warbodog]

Characters who genuinely still feel like “recent” additions to me include Manjula (season 7), and Gil, Duffman, and the Crazy Cat Lady (season 9).

Manjula was who I thought of for when it starts to feel like less familiar, latter-day Simpsons, but I thought she was a year or two later. I haven’t seen much past season 9 and nothing past whatever Sky One was up to in the early 2000s, when they were doing things like anthologies of Bible stories and Huckleberry Finn stories because they’d run out of ideas.

[Ian Symes]

I had to Google who she was. I do remember seeing the episode where Apu gets married, but it’s round about the point I stopped watching.

[Ridley]

Racist.

[Flap Jack]

Gil Gunderson might be the best of the Season 9 intake.

I’m surprised Manjula stumped you because she was pretty early in the grand scheme of things. Try identifying these recurring characters:

[Moonlight]

when they were doing things like anthologies of Bible stories and Huckleberry Finn stories because they’d run out of ideas.

I mean, the non-Halloween anthologies start with the Spin-Off Showcase in season 8. They’re pretty regularly in every other season or so up through about 19, and are usually some of the more memorable installments in their respective seasons. Those aren’t what I’d point to to argue they’re out of ideas, especially in the Scully era where even in the normal episodes the show is totally off the wall and swarming with magic robots.

I was a kid in the 2000s so I watched all these post-classic episodes to death pretty interchangeably with the earlier stuff for many years. I don’t have the older millennial experience of watching the show go downhill in the late 90s and getting burned out on it, I just slowly stopped watching many episodes past season 8 over time.

We need a dedicated Simpsons thread so I can never shut up about it.

[Technopeasant]

Try identifying these recurring characters:

I was going to point out Shauna Chalmers as the more modern example, but only because of TheRealJims. I am sure he mentioned the other one, but having not even an auxiliary connection to Steamed Hams, her name didn’t stick in my head.

As for the lists, the Great Gazoo wuz robbed.

[Flap Jack]

Yeah most of my knowledge of 2010s and onwards Simpsons comes via TheRealJims (and The Simpsons Theory) too to be fair.

By the way, I went to the Simpsons fandom wiki to grab those pictures (which I didn’t realise at the time were completely different sizes for some reason), and Shauna’s page opens with this gem:

If this was like an intentional meta joke made within the show itself, don’t tell me. It’s funnier to read this as unironic.

[Flap Jack]

19th best of all time, according to this possibly nationalist T-shirt website:

https://anglotees.com/top-25-british-comedies-of-all-time/

[Author]

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