Series 8

[Asclepius]

I watched Series 8 back in 1999. Unlike Series 1-7 (watched at home), I watched Series 8 largely in other places. A computer lab one night, when we tuned the CCTV in to actual TV, presumably some friends’ rooms that were affluent enough to have TV, etc. I can’t remember the details, sadly.

Series 1-6 I’d watched repeatedly, repeatedly on video. I’d then taped them to audio and listened to them almost compulsively. I made my own little tape covers using MS Publisher.

I’ve really enjoyed the cast commentaries on them in recent months. I’ve been listening to them on youtube while I do other things (walking places, driving…) and as I can remember the episodes so well, it works without the visuals.

Series 7 mostly worked for me, too. I’d seen it and remembered it well enough. I may have re-watched some.

And then the Series 8 commentaries came and they didn’t work for me – I couldn’t remember the stories and scenes well at all, so I started watching them again, consoling myself that I do remember Cassandra being good, at least.

But jay-hey-sus christ, this is awful, awful TV. The first three in particular. It’s an awful combination of the plots being both weak and convoluted and the jokes being signposted from about a mile beforehand.

I think if I were to create an example, it’d be like taking Cat’s

“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head”

into

“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head. It’s my pubic hair” or something.

And the denouement of Back into the Red III is Rimmer about to get r@ped in jail.

And suddenly we’re meant to also be getting our laughs out of women who are either a bit chubby, or a bit old and very much of colour. What the f’s that about?

I’ve made it through, though. I’ve made it to Cassandra. This one does work. Its plot works, there are some big smiles (if not laughs). But I do remember from 25 years ago, Krytie and Pete both being absolute cringe. I’ll persevere, but….wow…what happened…

it makes the resurgence since Back to Earth even more miraculous. I like BtE despite its limitations, and the Dave era has continued to be pretty good overall…

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

The Series VIII own thread 

we’ve always needed a place to compile our thrashing of the series 

Other than the very odd person (Jon Hoare) you’ll get little disagreement from anyone on what you’ve said 

[Flap Jack]

The thing is there must have been one if not many threads already dedicated to Series VIII that could be bumped, but it’s hard to find them because the forum search looks for content rather than titles. If any G&T admins are reading this, maybe they could consider adding a title search to the list of potential future site features… ?

For the sake of the discourse I will re-submit my least common (but probably still fairly common) Series VIII opinions:

– Krytie TV is easily the worst episode of the series over the Petes, and therefore it’s the worst episode of the whole show.

– Cassandra is easily the best episode of the series, but it’s still not a good episode overall. IIRC in the Coral Canvass I gave it the same score as Stasis Leak.

– Ackerman is a lot better as a presence in the series than Kill Crazy, and probably Hollister too.

– I wasn’t actually that bothered by “THE END / THE SMEG IT IS.” It’s not great, but it doesn’t stick out as particularly bad in Series VIII. Similarly I wasn’t that annoyed by the Blue Midget Dance. It’s just some more stupidity in a dream sequence full of stupidity. The Blue Midget Dance is extremely low down on my list of complaints about Back in the Red. In a relative sense it’s pretty fun compared to all the rape jokes.

– Continuity wise, you can skip straight from Nanarchy to Back to Earth and it’s completely seamless. Doing this actually leaves fewer things unexplained than going from Only the Good… to Back to Earth. And if you’re rewatching the whole show just for fun, I actively recommend it.

[Warbodog]

[Unrumble]

 IIRC in the Coral Canvass I gave it the same score as Stasis Leak.

It’s enjoyable, considering how VIII-bashing crops up in so many other threads, that you are persisting with your anti-Stasis Leak campaign in one dedicated to VIII-bashing.

[Asclepius]

I watched Series 8 back in 1999. Unlike Series 1-7 (watched at home), I watched Series 8 largely in other places. A computer lab one night, when we tuned the CCTV in to actual TV, presumably some friends’ rooms that were affluent enough to have TV, etc. I can’t remember the details, sadly.
Series 1-6 I’d watched repeatedly, repeatedly on video. I’d then taped them to audio and listened to them almost compulsively. I made my own little tape covers using MS Publisher.
I’ve really enjoyed the cast commentaries on them in recent months. I’ve been listening to them on youtube while I do other things (walking places, driving…) and as I can remember the episodes so well, it works without the visuals.
Series 7 mostly worked for me, too. I’d seen it and remembered it well enough. I may have re-watched some.
And then the Series 8 commentaries came and they didn’t work for me – I couldn’t remember the stories and scenes well at all, so I started watching them again, consoling myself that I do remember Cassandra being good, at least.
But jay-hey-sus christ, this is awful, awful TV. The first three in particular. It’s an awful combination of the plots being both weak and convoluted and the jokes being signposted from about a mile beforehand.
I think if I were to create an example, it’d be like taking Cat’s
“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head”
into
“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head. It’s my pubic hair” or something.
And the denouement of Back into the Red III is Rimmer about to get r@ped in jail.
And suddenly we’re meant to also be getting our laughs out of women who are either a bit chubby, or a bit old and very much of colour. What the f’s that about?
I’ve made it through, though. I’ve made it to Cassandra. This one does work. Its plot works, there are some big smiles (if not laughs). But I do remember from 25 years ago, Krytie and Pete both being absolute cringe. I’ll persevere, but….wow…what happened…
it makes the resurgence since Back to Earth even more miraculous. I like BtE despite its limitations, and the Dave era has continued to be pretty good overall…

I watched Series 8 back in 1999. Unlike Series 1-7 (watched at home), I watched Series 8 largely in other places. A computer lab one night, when we tuned the CCTV in to actual TV, presumably some friends’ rooms that were affluent enough to have TV, etc. I can’t remember the details, sadly.
Series 1-6 I’d watched repeatedly, repeatedly on video. I’d then taped them to audio and listened to them almost compulsively. I made my own little tape covers using MS Publisher.
I’ve really enjoyed the cast commentaries on them in recent months. I’ve been listening to them on youtube while I do other things (walking places, driving…) and as I can remember the episodes so well, it works without the visuals.
Series 7 mostly worked for me, too. I’d seen it and remembered it well enough. I may have re-watched some.
And then the Series 8 commentaries came and they didn’t work for me – I couldn’t remember the stories and scenes well at all, so I started watching them again, consoling myself that I do remember Cassandra being good, at least.
But jay-hey-sus christ, this is awful, awful TV. The first three in particular. It’s an awful combination of the plots being both weak and convoluted and the jokes being signposted from about a mile beforehand.
I think if I were to create an example, it’d be like taking Cat’s
“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head”
into
“I have got hair like yours. It’s just not on my head. It’s my pubic hair” or something.
And the denouement of Back into the Red III is Rimmer about to get r@ped in jail.
And suddenly we’re meant to also be getting our laughs out of women who are either a bit chubby, or a bit old and very much of colour. What the f’s that about?
I’ve made it through, though. I’ve made it to Cassandra. This one does work. Its plot works, there are some big smiles (if not laughs). But I do remember from 25 years ago, Krytie and Pete both being absolute cringe. I’ll persevere, but….wow…what happened…
it makes the resurgence since Back to Earth even more miraculous. I like BtE despite its limitations, and the Dave era has continued to be pretty good overall…

Before I start replying to you all, I’ve just finished Cassandra, and it was about as good as I remember. Smart enough, with a good plot, and some big smiles, if not out and out laughs. Watched about 10 minutes of Krytie TV and it’s about what I remember of that one too, sadly.

The cast are doing a great job, though. Particularly Rimmer. But the material just isn’t there.

[Asclepius]

I’ve gazed upon your multitude of points, and here are the points I have deemed worthy of further study.

Krytie TV worse than the Petes? My memory was the other way around, as I remember cringing all the way through the viagra crap, but I also acknowledge that, at 18, that was more cringey than my vague memories of Krytie TV’s sexism being. I’m sure I’ll have strong thoughts on that as an old person, now.

Cassandra = Stasis Leak? Yeah, probably about that level.

Ackerman is fine. Kill Crazy? Funny character, but the name? FFS. Even when he’s first introduced by name in that clumsy, clumsy way. Ugh. Cringe.

The Blue Midget dance made me cringe a hole in my seat. And the false teeth. FFS.

[Asclepius]

And the worst thing about Series 8 is that, frankly, you – yes, *you*, love it. Look at how you voted for it!

BETTER THAN LIFE POLL 1999

• 1. Back To Reality
• 2. Gunmen of the Apocalypse
• 3. Quarantine
• 4. Polymorph
• 5. Stoke Me A Clipper
• 6. Blue
• 7. Cassandra
• 8. Only The Good…
• 9. Backwards
• 10. Dimension Jump

Two episodes in the overall Top 10. Alongside Blue. WTF? Is that what you like? 

• 11. Back In The Red
• 12. Demons and Angels
• 13. Marooned
• 14. Krytie TV
• 15. White Hole
• And another two here. Or four if you split up Back in the Red. Which is better than Marooned. That’s the sort of comedy you like and voted for, that is.
• 16. Queeg
• 17. Pete
• 18. Legion
• 19. Timeslides
• 20. The End

There’s Pete. The 17th best story of all time, because you love it so much. Better than all those three underneath it, and most of Series 1-6. What are you like? If you could have rated A Prince Amongst Men you’d have given it 3rd place behind Funky Bunker wouldn’t you? You ignorant sods.

• What are you like, 1999 RD fans?

So hands up, who took part in this one?

[Flap Jack]

It’s enjoyable, considering how VIII-bashing crops up in so many other threads, that you are persisting with your anti-Stasis Leak campaign in one dedicated to VIII-bashing.

Thank you. 😉

Though really my intention wasn’t to further the anti-Stasis Leak cause, just to make a useful comparison – even my personal favourite Series VIII episode is only as good as my least favourite bubble era episode (and in fact it’s still slightly worse, just not enough to go down by a whole point).

And also I just find it interesting that there might be a lot of fans out there who would agree with “Cassandra is as good as Stasis Leak” but mean it as a fully earnest compliment rather than a backhanded one.

[International Debris]

The humour veers from infantile to juvenile and back again, although every episode has at least a couple of great gags – you’re finished, become a dog, wrong number, cell inspection.

It’s overstuffed with characters, to the extent that the likes of Kill Crazy and Baxter seem to have bigger parts than Cat. 

All the usual complaints, many of which have been mentioned already. 

But also little things. The terrible novelty sci-fi fonts. The shit jokes in the captions. The garish costumes. The over the top performances. The dire library music. The terrible CG. “Naked” Kryten. On first watch as a 14 year old, I could tell there were serious issues with the script, but I also found a lot to laugh at. But what really irked me was just how fucking ugly the series was. It’s like the entire aesthetic of the show became ‘silly sci-fi’ rather than actual science fiction, which, to me, was missing the point of how the show worked, especially jarring after the previous series which really doubled down on the lore-building seriousness. 

Also, until “spit on her wrist,” “the movers and the shakers” was the worst gag in the whole show.

[Unrumble]

It’s a good point, I think Kill Crazy is well-performed by Jake Wood, even if you can argue it’s a bit OTT, but the name is on-the-nose dumb. Though perhaps it needs to be, for such a cartoonish character?

And regardless of whether this kind of fourth-wall-breaking-ish moment ‘belongs’ in Dwarf or not, it’s a highlight of a series where highlights are few and far between:

[Warbodog]

until “spit on her wrist,” “the movers and the shakers” was the worst gag in the whole show.

My mind’s always gone to this torturously drawn-out one:

[Unrumble]

“Naked” Kryten.

I know a sitcom can afford to occasionally sacrifice in-universe logic for the sake of a gag, in a way a ‘serious’ sci-fi show couldn’t, but fuck me, naked Kryten gets more and more awful with time, on multiple levels.

[Warbodog]

I think Kill Crazy’s great in Cassandra (and nowhere else!), rubbing in how deeply in the shit they’ve got themselves, more effectively than the desperate filler of Holly showing Lister a man with a lot of piercings. Even if it’s a bit weak that the episode renders him unconscious so it doesn’t have to deal with him any more, and I agree Shend’s introduction of the name is awkward.

[Unrumble]

 My mind’s always gone to this torturously drawn-out one:

Craig looks embarrassed to be sharing a scene with this punchline. 

[Dave]

[Flap Jack]

OK guys I have a confession to make – it was me. At age 7 I flooded the Better Than Life episode poll with responses that boosted the score of Series VIII. I hadn’t even heard of Red Dwarf at that point, it just seemed like the thing to do.

[Asclepius]

But what really irked me was just how fucking ugly the series was. 

That’s a good one. It really does look horrible, doesn’t it? I’d struggle to define it, but it really is horrible to look at.

[Ben Saunders]

“Naked” Kryten.

Yeah I fucking hate the Series 3 deleted scenes for this reason. Fuming.

[Asclepius]

It’s a good point, I think Kill Crazy is well-performed by Jake Wood, even if you can argue it’s a bit OTT, but the name is on-the-nose dumb. Though perhaps it needs to be, for such a cartoonish character?
And regardless of whether this kind of fourth-wall-breaking-ish moment ‘belongs’ in Dwarf or not, it’s a highlight of a series where highlights are few and far between:

I liked that. I like the character and I like the performance. The name is ridiculous. It needed to be acknowledge that it’s a nickname.

Lister: “Kill Crazy”? Seriously?!

Holly: Well, he can’t have those hobbies and keep his original name, can he?

Lister: Why? What is his real name?

Holly: [pick from ‘Captain’/’Archibald’/almost anything that would get a laugh. At this stage, Doug would have probably considered ‘Emily’ or something would have got a big laugh, too. And it would have.

[Asclepius]

OK guys I have a confession to make – it was me. At age 7 I flooded the Better Than Life episode poll with responses that boosted the score of Series VIII. I hadn’t even heard of Red Dwarf at that point, it just seemed like the thing to do.

Well, it was either you or Rob Grant…

[Nick R]

OK guys I have a confession to make – it was me. At age 7 I flooded the Better Than Life episode poll with responses that boosted the score of Series VIII. I hadn’t even heard of Red Dwarf at that point, it just seemed like the thing to do.

[Rudolph]

Holly: [pick from ‘Captain’/’Archibald’/almost anything that would get a laugh. At this stage, Doug would have probably considered ‘Emily’ or something would have got a big laugh, too. And it would have.

For a bit of pointless trivia, according to his interview with Talkie Toaster for the Red Dwarf website, his real name is Oswald Blenkinsopp.

[Asclepius]

Holly: [pick from ‘Captain’/’Archibald’/almost anything that would get a laugh. At this stage, Doug would have probably considered ‘Emily’ or something would have got a big laugh, too. And it would have.

For a bit of pointless trivia, according to his interview with Talkie Toaster for the Red Dwarf website, his real name is Oswald Blenkinsopp.

Including that in any Series 8 episode would have increased its laugh count by about 10%

[Unrumble]

[Moonlight]

I refuse to go on this extended diatribe again, but the “it’s a dream so anything can happen” defense I often see of scenes like the Blue Midget dance is directly at odds with the actual stated purpose of the simulation and it only gets worse if you factor in things like Cat apparently being smarter than he actually is. Doing a fan edit of Back in the Red a few years ago has resulted in me spending an unreasonable amount of time actively thinking about its plot.

 

[Nick R]

These are my memories of my reaction to Red Dwarf VIII on first broadcast: 

* BITR1: I like the “8” being done though chalk tally marks! Not a fan of the rat bit, but bringing back the crew seems promising. And they’ve thought about continuity, with Lucas McClaren thinking that Kryten’s creation date is in the future, and the different ship design being justified by the dialogue about how the ship is like its original design plans. (I remember being so excited by the new series that I rewatched this episode the day after broadcast.)
* BITR1 and 3: Oh, that wasn’t very good. The lowlight was the stop-motion screensaver bit. 
* Cassandra: That was pretty good! I hope the rest of the series is more like that! 
* KTV, PP2, PP2, OTG…: It wasn’t. :(
* Oh well, the caption at the end says that’s not the end, so at least we’ll be getting another series before too long. Hopefully that’ll be better! 

I have a confession! Although I still have my videotaped-off-the-telly copies of Red Dwarf VIII, I never actually bought it on DVD. I did rent the DVD via Lovefilm at some point (I think around 2012, in the run up to series X), so I have seen the extras and done one full rewatch of the series from start to finish since first broadcast.

[Dax101]

My memory of series 8 was not liking it but really wanting to like it. Really trying to convince myself that i was just missing something and trying hard to like it. Just so i didn’t have a piece of Red Dwarf i didn’t enjoy. Not the most healthy approach to try and like something thats just not working for you.

[Nick R]

* KTV, PP2, PP2, OTG…:

[Warbodog]

I remember when Series VIII was new and exciting, basically just in the first half, watching excitedly for the first four weeks.* I was so caught up in the evolving narrative and the directions they could take it, I didn’t stop to think if they should.

Krytie TV was the first one that seemed notably weak to me, but I allowed it as a balancing act of comedy after Cassandra’s sci-fi, then Pete Part 1 was all over the place but seemed fun, then the penny dropped early on in Pete Part 2 that, oh dear, this wasn’t good Red Dwarf any more. I went into the finale with low expectations that were met. Whatever, it probably just can’t be as good as it used to, but I’d still look forward to Series IX in 2001 (being realistic).

* Though I also realised on here a while ago that Lee & Herring’s TMWRNJ series 2 started half way through the series and became my new focus of obsession, which also explains my waning enthusiasm, in tandem with shit episodes.

[Rudolph]

I actually quite enjoy the Blue Midget dance, on the grounds that I like to see the Cat be cool occassionally, and not just the team idiot. It makes me think back to Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers where Lister talks about Cat picking up the fundamentals of driving the ore transport truck pretty quickly, and soon after being able to pull off all sorts of stunts in it.
Only the Good… I think is the weakest episode, as it doesn’t really have a plot. It’s a collection of sketches and set pieces all strung together, with the virus stuff only really coming into play in the last ten minutes.

[Moonlight]

Only the Good… I think is the weakest episode, as it doesn’t really have a plot. It’s a collection of sketches and set pieces all strung together

 “It’s a collection of sketches and set pieces all strung together” (with varying degrees of having or not having a plot) applies to basically every episode of VIII except Cassandra. But I feel like Pete suffers from that the worst of any of the stories.

[cwickham]

Krytie TV is a terrible, terrible episode but it does have a structure and coherence that is missing from the two multi-part stories that had a full half-hour of padding inserted into them late in the day and Only the Good which basically exists because they couldn’t afford to make “Earth” any more.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

Who would have thought that in the 1990s a CGI dinosaur could be expensive enough to blow through the entire digital effects budget and utterly derail the more ambitious plans for the finale?

[Quinn: Clochebusters World Champion]

Maybe the could have afforded it if they didn’t have so many cast in each episode. Maybe if they had some way to cut it down to say, 4 cast members and a couple of sets, they’d have saved a fortune. 

[Dave]

Having just read the VIII scripts book for the first time, Doug is clear that the dinosaur cost barely anything at all because Chris Veale knew somewhere he could get the wireframe for literally about £150.

Equally it sounds like the plans for Earth were never realistically within the show’s budget, from the way the long climactic crash sequence is described it’s clear that it would have cost a huge amount of money and would also likely still have looked a bit crap given the capabilities available at the time.

[Warbodog]

Doug’s comments in the book gave me the impression that Pete Part 2 only existed because they had access to an affordable dinosaur. Which would have been a more relevant application of the Jurassic Park quote than the one I made earlier.

[solidbronze]

In addition to all the other stuff mentioned, the two things that really stick out production-wise are the way the sets all look so clean and unblemished, like they’ve just been put up in studio and painted that morning, and the comedy sound effects whenever someone gets clonked on the head (or whatever). It seems unthinkable that you’d have done that in, say, Marooned or something. When I think about VIII, it feels like a cartoon I watched.

[Dave]

and the comedy sound effects whenever someone gets clonked on the head (or whatever). It seems unthinkable that you’d have done that in, say, Marooned or something.

The oft-cited counter-example to that is this:

[Dax101]

I think it was £2000 for 30 seconds of Dino footage.

[Ridley]

[Technopeasant]

On a different note though, as foolhardy as it was that’s still uncharacteristically ballsy for Rimmer to do.

[Moonlight]

I’m trying to think of the first time we see Rimmer be a complete coward and I’m not sure I can think of a solid example in the earlier series. Even in Polymorph he kinda adopts a karate pose to fruitlessly appear threatening. The Last Day is the first one that comes to mind and in his defense he just insulted someone he didn’t realize could kill him.

[Warbodog]

Maybe The Last Day when he’s hiding at the rear, though he’s did actually go along. Otherwise, part of the enfeebling of his character from series IV on. Early Rimmer is best.

[Moonlight]

Backwards Rimmer hiding from a barroom brawl feels like a reasonable thing to do.

[Flap Jack]

He gets super scared in Better Than Life and starts screaming “we’re going to die!” even though it’s just a video game and he’s already dead.

Just one episode earlier, he’s frozen in abject terror at the sight of some skeletons which, in the grand scheme of things, aren’t even that spooky.

[Warbodog]

He runs away from a sexual predator in Parallel Universe.

[Future Producer of Series IX – aaaaany day now]

he’s frozen in abject terror at the sight of some skeletons

I never got the impression that was terror, I thought it was more just the look of a man having to forcibly resign himself to the unhappy reality that all his immediate hopes for the future have been cruelly dashed and never had any hope of succeeding (i.e. the girls are all 2.9 million years dead and he’s not getting any girl action)

[Technopeasant]

I have managed to turn a thread complaining about Series VIII away from that topic.

Have I won G&T?

[Warbodog]

the girls are all 2.9 million years dead

They’ve only been dead for centuries!

girl action

[Author]

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